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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Fire the First Shot... We Have Most of the Guns...
Tuesday, September 20, 2011 8:22 AM
ANTHONYT
Freedom is Important because People are Important
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:Breitbart released heavily edited video purporting to provide "proof" of Obama admin official's "racism." Full video vindicates Sherrod, destroys Breitbart's accusations of racism. After Sherrod smear dissolves, Breitbart falsely claims his story was "not about Shirley Sherrod." Remember the ACORN scandal? Breitbart coordinated release of conservative activists' undercover ACORN videos. Independent assessment "did not find a pattern of intentional, illegal conduct by ACORN staff." Investigations by CA, Brooklyn authorities find no criminality. Authorities criticize selective editing of ACORN videos. Then there's the one where O'Keefe falsely claimed undercover video campaign was a "nationwide ACORN child prostitution investigation" implicating many ACORN employees. Massachusetts Attorney General Scott Harshbarger "did not find a pattern of intentional, illegal conduct by ACORN staff." Breitbart later threatened to release more tapes during election unless DOJ investigates ACORN. "There will be consequences if there isn't an investigation into ACORN. The videos will be shown and at a particular moment (meaning the election)." O'Keefe later pleaded guilty to misdemeanor criminal charge in Landrieu office case. Blogger Hoft's smear campaign against Department of Education staffer Kevin Jennings. Breitbart eagerly embraced and promoted Hoft's false attacks on Jennings. Breitbart.tv also smeared Jennings. An October 6, 2009, Breitbart.tv post grossly distorted comments Jennings to claim he "criticize[d] schools for promoting heterosexuality." In fact, in the audio files posted at Breitbart.tv, Jennings promoted a curriculum that demands "respect [for] every human being regardless of sexual orientation, regardless of gender identity, regardless of race or religion or any of the arbitrary distinctions we make among people," and said that efforts to promote a specific sexual orientation through schools were ineffective. Breitbart-promoted O'Keefe video: "Census supervisors" were "systemically encouraging employees to falsify information on their time sheets." BigGovernment video omits additional clip showing census crew leader stressing need for accuracy in time sheet reporting. In video, O'Keefe uses fuzzy math in calculating potential cost of the alleged census "fraud." Breitbart baselessly implicates White House in alleged Tea Party activist Kenneth Gladney assault. Claims WH "directed" town hall violence based on egregious distortions. "These union thugs were directed by the White House to go to the protests and 'punch back twice as hard.' And they did." Actual quote was White House deputy chief of staff Jim Messina telling Senate Democrats -- not union groups -- that the administration will "punch back twice as hard" when senators are attacked over their support for health care reform. Breitbart's BigHollywood.com claims NEA "looking to the art community to create an environment amenable to the administration's positions." Posters on Breitbart's websites baselessly claim NEA broke laws. Fox News runs with baseless lawbreaking allegation. No evidence of Hatch Act violations existed. Breitbart's BigGovernment.com claims ACORN CEO Bertha Lewis visited White House. The "Bertha E. Lewis" who visited the White House wasn't the ACORN CEO and ACORN officials pointed out that their CEO's middle initial, as it appears on her New York voter registration, is "M," not "E." Breitbart issues semi-correction. Breitbart countermands his own correction. Breitbart issued to Media Matters a $1,000 challenge to produce proof that "Bertha E. Lewis" was not Bertha Lewis of ACORN. BigGovernment.com: "Transvestites, Mao And Obama Ornaments Decorate White House Christmas Tree." The image of Mao adorning one ornament was actually "one of a very large series of silkscreen paintings and prints [Andy Warhol] made of Mao. Warhol's parody transformed the leader of the world's most populous nation into a vapid superstar -- the most famous of the famous." First Lady's Office: "local community groups were asked to decorate hundreds of ornaments but they are unaware of these specific decorations." On the conservative blog Hot Air, blogger Allahpundit dismissed as nonsensical the idea that the White House would use three Christmas tree ornaments out of hundreds to make a "political statement. (details and more at http://mediamatters.org/research/201007210054 now you know enough about Andrew Breitbart to put things in perspective. He drools at anything he can get that he can distort for his own uses, and he's good at it. There's a VAST difference between one comment by Hoffa intended to motivate his base and Andrew Breitbart's consistent twisting of facts and being involved with O'Keefe in creating scandals where none exist. This idea that the left should arm themselves or up the rhetoric in any way is unfortunate, too. There is no reason to climb down in the gutter with them and exacerbate the situation. Anyone with half a brain or who has been paying attention knows full well that people like Breitbart and the more extreme (and most vocal) members of the Tea Party are a minute minority of the right. There are extremists on both (all) sides; they pop up now and again, get a lot of attention, are rejected by the majority and fade away. To tar either side with the same brush as their extremists is the most unfortunate thing of all--except perhaps how much attention they garner and how they distract us from the actual adult conversations we need to have. Then again, perhaps the MOST unfortunate part is that we here on REWD, who are not in the political arena, reflect far too many Americans who also buy into this rhetoric, discuss/debate it, snarl at one another, and talk like Rap and Wulf without using our brains. We expect no better of THEM, but we shouldn't stoop to their level. You guys are smarter than that. Which brings me to that question I always ask: Why does anyone give Wulf the credence necessary to respond to him? Go back and really READ his posts; he's even worse than Raptor in that he reflects the very worst of fantasy thinking completely divorced from reality. He spouts slogans, nothing more, and isn't worth the effort to read, much less respond to. The concept that we "fell all over ourselves" to excuse Hoffa's retoric as just 'retoric' is false. We kept explaining that Hoffa had CLEARLY said "we have the votes"--just because it was left out when FauxNews reported it doesn't change the meaning. It wasn't rhetoric, it was a plea to vote the Tea Party/Republicans out of office. There is no ambiguity, any more than there is any ambiguity in what Breitbart said; he's VERY clear and all but repeats himself several times. And yes, we did dispel the myth that Geezr is any "nicer" than the other righties here, which I used to believe. He is every bit as partisan and twists things just as much, he's just somewhat more eloquent in his efforts to make sense. I learned that the hard way.
Tuesday, September 20, 2011 9:35 AM
NEWOLDBROWNCOAT
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Geezer's every bit the partisan you and Rappy are, Wulfie; he just spells marginally better.
Tuesday, September 20, 2011 1:24 PM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Quote:Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat: But this distortion of what Hoffa said, by deliberately taking it out of context-- He cut the PREVIOUS SENTENCE, fer God's sake-- and then pretending not to be aware of it, he's lost any credibility or respect from me.
Tuesday, September 20, 2011 1:35 PM
RIONAEIRE
Beir bua agus beannacht
Tuesday, September 20, 2011 1:43 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:Originally posted by RionaEire: I have to agree with Anthony on this one, Geezer doesn't insult in the junior high fashion where everything always comes back to sex of some sort. "A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
Tuesday, September 20, 2011 1:46 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Google the sentence fragment I quoted. That's the same fragment most of the MSM also quoted - with the previous sentence deleted. That's were I got it when I googled 'hoffa' and 'sons of bitches' which was all I remembered of the statement. Try it and see what you get. "Keep the Shiny side up"
Tuesday, September 20, 2011 1:50 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat: But this distortion of what Hoffa said, by deliberately taking it out of context-- He cut the PREVIOUS SENTENCE, fer God's sake-- and then pretending not to be aware of it, he's lost any credibility or respect from me. Google the sentence fragment I quoted. That's the same fragment most of the MSM also quoted - with the previous sentence deleted. That's were I got it when I googled 'hoffa' and 'sons of bitches' which was all I remembered of the statement. Try it and see what you get. "Keep the Shiny side up"
Quote:James Hoffa’s Full ‘Take These Sons Of Bitches Out’ Quote: ‘Everybody Here’s Got A Vote’ by Tommy Christopher | 8:03 pm, September 5th, 2011 » 291 comments A quote from Teamster President James Hoffa is making the Labor Day rounds, particularly on the right, as evidence of the kind of “violent rhetoric” that President Obama denounced in the wake of January’s shooting tragedy in Tucson. In an abridged version of the quote posted here earlier, Hoffa says, of the Tea Party, “Let’s take these sons of bitches out,” but according to CNN, Hoffa prefaced his remark by saying, “Everybody here’s got a vote,” which narrows the comment’s meaning.
Tuesday, September 20, 2011 1:54 PM
Quote:Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat: Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Geezer's every bit the partisan you and Rappy are, Wulfie; he just spells marginally better. I keep trying to treat him as an honest fair thinker- it must be that picture of Heinlein he uses with his header. But this distortion of what Hoffa said, by deliberately taking it out of context-- He cut the PREVIOUS SENTENCE, fer God's sake-- and then pretending not to be aware of it, he's lost any credibility or respect from me. And, hey, have ya noticed-- the Righties are all in favor of Second Amendment rights and guns and arming themselves-- but when a Liberal suggests that the LEFTIES MAYBE SHOULD , they get all scared. THEY know they can't win the battle of ideas and words, and they're afraid that if it came to guns, they'd be so outnumbered by lefties that they couldn't BULLY their way thru.
Tuesday, September 20, 2011 2:04 PM
Tuesday, September 20, 2011 6:10 PM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Tuesday, September 20, 2011 7:20 PM
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 2:42 AM
Quote:Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat: How 'bout this? I went to You Tube and entered "Hoffa". That's all.
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 2:48 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:Originally posted by RionaEire: I have to agree with Anthony on this one, Geezer doesn't insult in the junior high fashion where everything always comes back to sex of some sort. "A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya I can cite a couple examples where Geezer has resorted to exactly that, calling me - and I quote - "a sick fuck" and telling me to "shut the fuck up" purely because he didn't like me position on a political issue.
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 4:59 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko:
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 5:30 AM
STORYMARK
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat: But this distortion of what Hoffa said, by deliberately taking it out of context-- He cut the PREVIOUS SENTENCE, fer God's sake-- and then pretending not to be aware of it, he's lost any credibility or respect from me. Google the sentence fragment I quoted.
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 6:42 AM
Quote:A quote from Teamster President James Hoffa is making the Labor Day rounds, particularly on the right, as evidence of the kind of “violent rhetoric” that President Obama denounced in the wake of January’s shooting tragedy in Tucson. ..... When outrage over Hoffa’s quote swept over Twitter, I hadn’t seen the clip yet, but the quote sounded so familiar that I took a look for another source, with broader context. Sure enough, CNN reported the quote this way: “Everybody here has a vote,” Hoffa said Monday. “If we go back and we keep the eye on the prize. Let’s take these sons of bitches out and give America back to America where we belong.” The full quote (Hoffa actually says “Everybody here’s got a vote,” and, employing the colloquially approved plural for sonofabitch, “let’s take these sonofabitches out”) is almost identical to something Hoffa said on Morning Joe about a week-and-a-half ago, with little or no outrage. He said ““There’s going to be an election in ’12, and maybe the answer is, we wipe these people out.” The full Hoffa quote was also run in a clip later in the day by Fox News, and Fox Senior White House Correspondent Ed Henry took pains to clarify the Hoffa quote via his Twitter feed following his initial report, which omitted “Everybody here’s got a vote”:Quote:Full quote, Jimmy Hoffa Jr: “Everybody here’s got to vote. If we go back & keep the eye on the prize, let’s take these sons of bitches out” http://www.mediaite.com/tv/james-hoffas-full-take-these-sons-of-bitches-out-quote-everybody-heres-got-a-vote/ have to give Henry points for clarifying what FauxNews so happily left out. He is not, as was also pointed out, "Jimmy Hoffa Jr." He has a different middle name, but of course it's more useful to call him "Hoffa Jr." Unfortunately, the search also brought this as the fourth link:Quote:"President Obama, this is your army," Hoffa said. "We are ready to march. Let's take these sons of bitches out and give America back to an America where we belong." The rest of Hoffa's red-meat rhetoric at a pro-union Labor Day rally. "We got to keep an eye on the battle that we face: The war on workers. And you see it everywhere, it is the Tea Party. And you know, there is only one way to beat and win that war. The one thing about working people is we like a good fight. And you know what? They've got a war, they got a war with us and there's only going to be one winner. It's going to be the workers of Michigan, and America. We're going to win that war." http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/09/hoffa-lets-take-these-sons-of-bitches-out.php is pretty nasty rhetoric, and just what our righties will latch onto, unfortunately accurately, to make their point. While I find the comments everyone HAS latched onto unfortunate and I don't think he should have said it, the stuff you're NOT hearing about is much more egregious and I firmly decry it. And yeah, I'd forgotten about the woman who got her head stomped on. Good point, as well as thank you for following up on the other "beat-down", which completely nullifyies Breitbart's twisting of the situation. Of course, what happens AFTER all the hoopla is rarely paid attention to. Both sides (all sides) in politics play dirty. To get involved in "YOU did it!" "No, YOU did it", is a child's game everyone is bound to lose...but only after a lot of yelling and screaming and blaming. It's a waste of everyone's time. Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani, Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”, signing off
Quote:Full quote, Jimmy Hoffa Jr: “Everybody here’s got to vote. If we go back & keep the eye on the prize, let’s take these sons of bitches out”
Quote:"President Obama, this is your army," Hoffa said. "We are ready to march. Let's take these sons of bitches out and give America back to an America where we belong." The rest of Hoffa's red-meat rhetoric at a pro-union Labor Day rally. "We got to keep an eye on the battle that we face: The war on workers. And you see it everywhere, it is the Tea Party. And you know, there is only one way to beat and win that war. The one thing about working people is we like a good fight. And you know what? They've got a war, they got a war with us and there's only going to be one winner. It's going to be the workers of Michigan, and America. We're going to win that war." http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/09/hoffa-lets-take-these-sons-of-bitches-out.php is pretty nasty rhetoric, and just what our righties will latch onto, unfortunately accurately, to make their point. While I find the comments everyone HAS latched onto unfortunate and I don't think he should have said it, the stuff you're NOT hearing about is much more egregious and I firmly decry it. And yeah, I'd forgotten about the woman who got her head stomped on. Good point, as well as thank you for following up on the other "beat-down", which completely nullifyies Breitbart's twisting of the situation. Of course, what happens AFTER all the hoopla is rarely paid attention to. Both sides (all sides) in politics play dirty. To get involved in "YOU did it!" "No, YOU did it", is a child's game everyone is bound to lose...but only after a lot of yelling and screaming and blaming. It's a waste of everyone's time.
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 8:48 AM
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 8:58 AM
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:56 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:Originally posted by RionaEire: I have to agree with Anthony on this one, Geezer doesn't insult in the junior high fashion where everything always comes back to sex of some sort. "A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya I can cite a couple examples where Geezer has resorted to exactly that, calling me - and I quote - "a sick fuck" and telling me to "shut the fuck up" purely because he didn't like me position on a political issue. Anthony. I have to admit that on rare occasions I have called Mike "a sick fuck" and similar. There are a couple of reasons for this. First is that he had previously called me as bad or worse in the same thread. Second is that he was acting like a sick fuck. "Keep the Shiny side up"
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 3:59 PM
Quote:Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat: These comments and the zombie thread have caused me to do a little thinking about the manner of arming myself. A .22LR isn't gonna stop a SWAT Team or the Army / National Guard, but anything going Bang!/ wheet! will slow 'em down to regroup and call in more support before they kill you. And it oughtta be enough to discourage the casual thug or mob of untrained right wing nut jobs, convince 'em to go after some other liberal. and it can't be beat for economy or availability of ammo. And I keep hearing that the 22Long is a better round than the LR- it's subsonic, so quieter and easier to silence, and less affected by sonic barrier turbulence, so more accurate. Looses a little energy, because of less velocity, so probably a little less range and a little less penetration. Not much use against zombies at range , 'cuz you gotta take a head shot, nor against foes in body armor, but unarmored thugs or nut jobs, might be enough to just scare 'em away.
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 4:15 PM
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 4:16 PM
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 4:30 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat: These comments and the zombie thread have caused me to do a little thinking about the manner of arming myself. A .22LR isn't gonna stop a SWAT Team or the Army / National Guard, but anything going Bang!/ wheet! will slow 'em down to regroup and call in more support before they kill you. And it oughtta be enough to discourage the casual thug or mob of untrained right wing nut jobs, convince 'em to go after some other liberal. and it can't be beat for economy or availability of ammo. And I keep hearing that the 22Long is a better round than the LR- it's subsonic, so quieter and easier to silence, and less affected by sonic barrier turbulence, so more accurate. Looses a little energy, because of less velocity, so probably a little less range and a little less penetration. Not much use against zombies at range , 'cuz you gotta take a head shot, nor against foes in body armor, but unarmored thugs or nut jobs, might be enough to just scare 'em away. Yup, another pro for the .22 - *IF* you have to use it in self-defense, it's a lot less likely to go through the intruder, through the wall, through the neighbor's wall, and possibly through the neighbor, when compared to something like an AK47. There's a reason my go-to home defense weapons are NOT the rifles I enjoy shooting at the range!
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 4:42 PM
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 5:08 PM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Wednesday, September 21, 2011 7:13 PM
Thursday, September 22, 2011 2:11 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Cites, please?
Thursday, September 22, 2011 5:07 AM
Quote:Originally posted by RionaEire: .22s don't get one very far. Although they work for rabbit hunting and pheasants, which ultimately are more useful anyway because you can eat them.
Thursday, September 22, 2011 5:46 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Cites, please? I'll use the ones you claim to have. Post up those threads where you were having a reasonable, civilized, on-topic discussion of the thread subject and I jumped in out of the blue and called you names. "Keep the Shiny side up"
Friday, September 23, 2011 2:44 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Here's one: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=46786 and another: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=48050
Friday, September 23, 2011 4:04 AM
Friday, September 23, 2011 4:14 AM
Quote:So you'd agree that they're fair targets. U.S. soldiers at, say, Fort Hood are fair targets, since they are indeed actively planning the murders of others who aren't troubling them
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