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FBI and DEA agents have disrupted a plot to commit a "significant terrorist act in the United States" tied to Iran, federal officials told ABC News today.

The officials said the plot included the assassination of the Saudi Arabian ambassador to the United States, Adel Al-Jubeir, with a bomb and subsequent bomb attacks on the Saudi and Israeli embassies in Washington, D.C. Bombings of the Saudi and Israeli embassies in Buenos Aires, Argentina, were also discussed, according to the U.S. officials.

U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said in an announcement today that the plan was "conceived, sponsored and was directed from Iran" by a faction of the government and called it a "flagrant" violation of U.S. and international law.

"The U.S. is committed to holding Iran accountable for its actions," Holder said.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-iran-tied-terror-plot-washington-dc-d
isrupted/story?id=14711933

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In Islamic tradition, a messenger should not be harmed, even if coming from an arch-enemy and bearing a highly provocative or offensive message. A hadith attributes this sunnah to the time when Musaylimah sent to the Prophet Muhammad messengers who proclaimed Musaylimah be a Prophet of Allah and the co-equal of Muhammad himself.

As diplomats by definition enter the country under safe-conduct, violating them is normally viewed as a great breach of honour, although there have been a number of cases where diplomats have been killed. Genghis Khan and the Mongols were well known for strongly insisting on the rights of diplomats, and they would often take terrifying vengeance against any state that violated these rights. The Mongols would often raze entire cities to the ground in retaliation for the execution of their ambassadors, and invaded and destroyed the Khwarezmid Empire after their ambassadors had been mistreated.

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Senior Obama administration officials said the U.S. currently does not have any information indicating that either Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei or President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad necessarily knew about the assassination plot and said the U.S. will pursue a path of response that would not include the possibility of an armed conflict with Iran.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Apparently it's only an "act of war" when they actually fight back. We assassinate people quite often ourselves. Kinda whiney to complain when they try to kill us right back.

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Originally posted by m52nickerson:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Apparently it's only an "act of war" when they actually fight back. We assassinate people quite often ourselves. Kinda whiney to complain when they try to kill us right back.

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How so? If you are talking about killing Bin Laden or other terrorist there is a bit of a difference.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Apparently it's only an "act of war" when they actually fight back. We assassinate people quite often ourselves. Kinda whiney to complain when they try to kill us right back.

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Professor Solis wrote that while there is no official U.S. policy directive regarding targeted killing, the U.S. addressed assassination in Executive Order 12333, which does not completely prohibit it, but requires presidential approval.[1] That Executive Order, which does not define "assassination", was signed December 4, 1981, by President Reagan, and remains in effect.[2][189] It is similar to its counterparts under Presidents Ford and Carter (Executive Orders 11905 and 12306).[2] It has been construed as relating to political assassination, as distinct from the target killing of military enemies of the U.S.

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No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination.

(....)

As early as 1998, this proscription against assassination was reinterpreted, and relaxed, for targets who are classified by the United States as connected to terrorism.

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By the early years of the 1970s, the unpopularity of the Vietnam War and the unfolding Watergate scandal brought the era of minimal oversight to an abrupt halt. The US Congress was determined to rein in the Nixon administration and to ascertain the extent to which the nation's intelligence agencies had been involved in questionable, if not outright illegal, activities.

A series of troubling revelations started to appear in the press concerning intelligence activities. First came the revelations of Christopher Pyle in January 1970 of the U.S. Army's spying on the civilian population[1][2] and Sam Ervin's Senate investigations that resulted.[3] The dam broke on 22 December 1974, when The New York Times published a lengthy article by Seymour Hersh detailing operations engaged in by the Central Intelligence Agency over the years that had been dubbed the "family jewels". Covert action programs involving assassination attempts against foreign leaders and covert attempts to subvert foreign governments were reported for the first time.

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The Central Intelligence Agency violated its charter for 25 years until revelations of illegal wiretapping, domestic surveillance, assassination plots, and human experimentation led to official investigations and reforms in the 1970s.

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Operation Northwoods was a series of false-flag proposals that originated within the United States government in 1962. The proposals called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or other operatives, to commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere.

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
Apparently it's only an "act of war" when they actually fight back. We assassinate people quite often ourselves. Kinda whiney to complain when they try to kill us right back.

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The USA does not kill credentialed ambassadors or persons with diplomatic immunity. Not very damn often, and not deliberately.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

Saddam Hussein, his sons, Moammar Khaddafi, and his daughter beg to differ. 'Course, only one of that group is still alive to say anything...

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Originally posted by m52nickerson:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

Saddam Hussein, his sons, Moammar Khaddafi, and his daughter beg to differ. 'Course, only one of that group is still alive to say anything...

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Saddam's sons were the only people on this list that the US military killed. They did so in a firefight, not an assassination.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
The raid aimed at killing Khaddafi "accidentally" killed one of his daughters.

Honestly, Nick, you sound like Rappy here, arguing that it's not "assassination" when WE do it, because we don't do that, just like "we don't torture". Doesn't matter what you CALL it, the actions and the results are the same.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

Rappy says no way does anyone outsource a job like this, that it has to be done in-house. So I have to ask the obvious question: Do y'all think Iran is that bad at intel? Are they really that bumbling and amateurish?

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
These are the folks who behead not just men and women, but children also, to send a message.

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Originally posted by m52nickerson:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
These are the folks who behead not just men and women, but children also, to send a message.

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Iranians? Can I get a citation for that or a clarification for that?

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Glad the bombings were stopped.

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I mean, sure, Iranians are all down for public execution, don't get me wrong. As I understand it, stoning, hanging or a shot to the head is their preferred STATE method of 'sending a message'.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Yeah, but we don't fill soccer ( futball ) stadia full of spectators to watch women get stoned to death for (alleged ) adultery, or a thief get his hand axed off.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Pay per view, for violent serial killers/ rapists or militant jihadists, sure. But not a public event.

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:
I gotta say I actually am a little surprised at how our right leaning friends here are taking this story at face value. Thought they mighta learned a little something from Iraq; might naturally channel their blanket distrust of the Obama admin. into a little, well, distrust of the Obama admin. But no, when it comes to high concept international plots against our freedoms, THEY JUMP IN IT.

So the Revolutionary Guard is gonna hire an American with a record (fraud, btw) who sends large sums of money to a drug cartel through the freakin' US Mail from NYC to assassinate a Saudi envoy in this country??? This is how they plan their first attack on American soil in their nation's history? That "plot" has SPECTRE, CHAOS and Dr. Evil written all over it. It's nuts. AND it's a freakin' hero sandwich of all our cherished enemies rolled into one: Iran and the Cartels double teaming the House of Saud and Israel! It's freakin WWF! Can you smell what Iraq is cookin'? But because a pair of suits attest in gravid tones to its validity at a press conference we're talking about how Saud and Israel should handle it? Really?



HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:
I gotta say I actually am a little surprised at how our right leaning friends here are taking this story at face value. Thought they mighta learned a little something from Iraq; might naturally channel their blanket distrust of the Obama admin. into a little, well, distrust of the Obama admin. But no, when it comes to high concept international plots against our freedoms, THEY JUMP IN IT.

So the Revolutionary Guard is gonna hire an American with a record (fraud, btw) who sends large sums of money to a drug cartel through the freakin' US Mail from NYC to assassinate a Saudi envoy in this country??? This is how they plan their first attack on American soil in their nation's history? That "plot" has SPECTRE, CHAOS and Dr. Evil written all over it. It's nuts. AND it's a freakin' hero sandwich of all our cherished enemies rolled into one: Iran and the Cartels double teaming the House of Saud and Israel! It's freakin WWF! Can you smell what Iraq is cookin'? But because a pair of suits attest in gravid tones to its validity at a press conference we're talking about how Saud and Israel should handle it? Really?



HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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And yesterday, the UK said - with a straight face, no less! - that there was a "credible threat".

Uh huh. They're doing the intel circle jerk yet again.

I didn't buy it then, and I don't buy it now.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Originally posted by m52nickerson: Hell, they might have wanted it to fail just to cause confusion.

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Originally posted by m52nickerson:
As stupid as the plot maybe that might have been the point. It looks so ridiculous that had it succeeded Iran could have denied being part of it, just as it is doing because it was exposed. Hell, they might have wanted it to fail just to cause confusion.

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Oh man, this reasoning fairly reeks of conspiracy rationalization, m52. "It's so stupid they must be geniuses!" The plot as described COULD NOT have succeeded. We watch the mails and we freaking watch convicted criminals (guy was indicted for fraud, remember). Every analyst I can find says the Revolutionary Guard doesn't work like this. (Again, I can hear the conspiracy wheels spinning--"That's EXACTLY why they MUST be behind this!") If this loser is the best they could find, then they're no threat to anyone but themselves. It's farcical. We couldn't hope for more incompetent foes.

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:

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Originally posted by m52nickerson:
As stupid as the plot maybe that might have been the point. It looks so ridiculous that had it succeeded Iran could have denied being part of it, just as it is doing because it was exposed. Hell, they might have wanted it to fail just to cause confusion.

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Oh man, this reasoning fairly reeks of conspiracy rationalization, m52. "It's so stupid they must be geniuses!" The plot as described COULD NOT have succeeded. We watch the mails and we freaking watch convicted criminals (guy was indicted for fraud, remember). Every analyst I can find says the Revolutionary Guard doesn't work like this. (Again, I can hear the conspiracy wheels spinning--"That's EXACTLY why they MUST be behind this!") If this loser is the best they could find, then they're no threat to anyone but themselves. It's farcical. We couldn't hope for more incompetent foes.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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On the other hand, I remember the Left's charges that the Bush administration phonied up the threat from Iraq, and over hyped increase of threat levels, all purely for political reasons. Wouldn't I be seen as a hypocrite, if the first thing I did was to accuse the Obama admin. of doing exactly what the Left accused the Bush admin of doing ?

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Originally posted by Bytemite:

Frem doesn't, but he's Frem. He has to be picky about his allies because he's more serious business.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:

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On the other hand, I remember the Left's charges that the Bush administration phonied up the threat from Iraq, and over hyped increase of threat levels, all purely for political reasons. Wouldn't I be seen as a hypocrite, if the first thing I did was to accuse the Obama admin. of doing exactly what the Left accused the Bush admin of doing ?

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I believe that would be called logical consistency.

Unless you believe the left here would cry foul, which, I guess they might. But I'd bop them for it, because when a guy who's normally in disagreement is agreeing with you, well, I consider it unwise to discourage that.

Frem doesn't, but he's Frem. He has to be picky about his allies because he's more serious business.

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