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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Cain's electrified fence "joke"...and the real "joke" about 9-9-9
Monday, October 17, 2011 4:31 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote: Herman Cain said he had been joking when he called for a fence along the Mexican border with “electrified barbed wire” that could kill people trying to enter the country illegally. He added: “America needs to get a sense of humor.” But The New York Times, which reported on Cain making those comments during campaign stops over the weekend in Tennessee, didn’t see Cain’s comments in the same light at all, writing that they had not been presented as a joke, but as “serious commentary” that drew “cheers,” rather than laughter, from the audience. Cain has in fact been making this “joke” - whether you see it that way or not - on the stump for some time. This video below was taken last May, in Council Bluffs, Iowa. Watch it for yourself. Here’s the text of Cain’s remarks: “We’ve got to secure the border. Truly secure it. I had a caller one night call in: ‘Mr. Cain, you conservatives have got to stop this talk about building a fence.’ I said, Why? ‘You know that is impractical.’ Oh really? I think I had just got back from China, and I went to the Great Wall of China. They built a wall; I think with today’s technology we can build a fence. And if they were to put me in charge of the fence, I know we’d build a fence. Somebody asked me, well, what kind of fence would you build? I tell you, it would be a combination of technology and a real fence. It would be about 20 feet high. It would have electrified barbed wire on the top. http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/2011/1017/Herman-Cain-joke-Electrified-fence-on-the-US-Mexico-border now he say's it was a joke. Why am I not surprised the audience cheered rather than laughed? Because THEY took it seriously, of course, and they love the idea. The man himself is the joke. His 9-9-9 sounds real nice, but when you look closely at it, IT's a joke, too...but a very, very bad one!Quote:If the Republican candidate's 9-9-9 tax plan – which would set up a 9 percent federal sales tax, 9 percent federal payroll tax, and 9 percent federal business tax – were to go into effect, the new federal sales tax would piggyback on top of state and local sales taxes already in existence. As a result, sales taxes around the nation would be considerably higher than 9 percent. The residents of Tennessee and Arizona would, on average, have to pay more than 18 percent in combined state, local, and federal taxes, using data from the Tax Foundation, a nonpartisan tax research group in Washington. At least 12 states would have average sales taxes over 17 percent. California, for example, would come in at a combined rate of 17.13 percent. And residents of four states – Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon – would have to start paying a sales tax. Currently, they have none. It's a glimpse of of the potential nationwide effects of Mr. Cain's 9-9-9 plan, which would result in a median national sales-tax rate of 15.8 percent, according to the Tax Foundation data. To compare sales taxes by state, the data average local sales taxes across each state, since they can vary widely from one locality to another. http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/President/2011/1014/Herman-Cain-9-9-9-sticker-shock-18-sales-tax-possible-in-some-statesAnyone wanna guess what's REALLY behind it?Quote:To the Cain campaign, these statistics miss the point. Since personal taxes would drop significantly with only one, 9 percent tax rate, individuals would have more disposable income to buy things which would be more expensive, 9-9-9 backers say.Yeah, right:Quote:“I understand his theory,” says Michelle Ahlman, executive director of the Arizona Retailers Association in Mesa. But she worries about “sticker shock,” when customers see how much an item will be with the new sales tax. “People will balk at it and either turn to buying online or not spend at all,” she says.So the rich would get even RICHER, and we'd all pay more for goods, which THEY can easily afford.
Quote:If the Republican candidate's 9-9-9 tax plan – which would set up a 9 percent federal sales tax, 9 percent federal payroll tax, and 9 percent federal business tax – were to go into effect, the new federal sales tax would piggyback on top of state and local sales taxes already in existence. As a result, sales taxes around the nation would be considerably higher than 9 percent. The residents of Tennessee and Arizona would, on average, have to pay more than 18 percent in combined state, local, and federal taxes, using data from the Tax Foundation, a nonpartisan tax research group in Washington. At least 12 states would have average sales taxes over 17 percent. California, for example, would come in at a combined rate of 17.13 percent. And residents of four states – Delaware, Montana, New Hampshire, and Oregon – would have to start paying a sales tax. Currently, they have none. It's a glimpse of of the potential nationwide effects of Mr. Cain's 9-9-9 plan, which would result in a median national sales-tax rate of 15.8 percent, according to the Tax Foundation data. To compare sales taxes by state, the data average local sales taxes across each state, since they can vary widely from one locality to another. http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/President/2011/1014/Herman-Cain-9-9-9-sticker-shock-18-sales-tax-possible-in-some-states
Quote:To the Cain campaign, these statistics miss the point. Since personal taxes would drop significantly with only one, 9 percent tax rate, individuals would have more disposable income to buy things which would be more expensive, 9-9-9 backers say.
Quote:“I understand his theory,” says Michelle Ahlman, executive director of the Arizona Retailers Association in Mesa. But she worries about “sticker shock,” when customers see how much an item will be with the new sales tax. “People will balk at it and either turn to buying online or not spend at all,” she says.
Monday, October 17, 2011 4:35 AM
Quote:Much less attention is paid to the fact that his 9-9-9 plan is just an early step in his tax reform plans. (Taxes you'll still pay under Cain's plan) Ultimately, Cain wants the country to adopt a Fair Tax. He's not the first presidential candidate to propose it. In 2008, for instance, Mike Huckabee made it a central part of his economic plan. So what's a Fair Tax exactly? In essence, it's a national sales tax that would replace the current tax code entirely and all the credits, deductions and exemptions that go along with it. With a national sales tax you would pay federal tax on what you spend rather than on what you earn, save or invest. The idea is to make the tax system less of a hindrance to economic growth. Cain hasn't offered any specifics on how he would set up a Fair Tax. But here's how the general proposal put forth by Fair Tax proponents would work. You would pay what amounts to a 30% tax on top of the price of anything you purchase. So for something that costs $1 you would pay $1.30. The extra 30 cents represents 23% of the final purchase price ($1.30). That's why you will hear Fair Tax supporters say that the tax rate under the Fair Tax is just 23%. A Fair Tax, like any tax that applies across the board to everyone regardless of income, would hit the poor harder than others. http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/17/news/economy/cain_999_plan/index.htm?hpt=hp_t1 there you go. Another version of class warfare, disguised as "less income tax!"
Monday, October 17, 2011 5:00 AM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Monday, October 17, 2011 5:05 AM
NEWOLDBROWNCOAT
Monday, October 17, 2011 5:15 AM
BYTEMITE
Monday, October 17, 2011 10:14 AM
AURAPTOR
America loves a winner!
Monday, October 17, 2011 10:57 AM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Monday, October 17, 2011 11:17 AM
Quote:Originally posted by 1kiki: "Even farm animals learn not to come near an electrified fence." It's hard to learn a 'lesson' when the first one kills you. And once again, we see little Rappy for what he really is. Geezer, do you really want to be seen as being on the same side as little Rappy? At this point you must be noticing he's a dead weight that will drag you under.
Monday, October 17, 2011 11:24 AM
Monday, October 17, 2011 11:35 AM
Monday, October 17, 2011 11:39 AM
KIRKULES
Monday, October 17, 2011 11:45 AM
Monday, October 17, 2011 12:45 PM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:Originally posted by Kirkules: I doubt Cain was entirely serious, but it is a pretty good idea. With a impenetrable barrier on to border many Mexican lives would be saved. Right now Mexicans die in the desert trying to cross, if they knew it was pointless to try they wouldn't put themselves in a position to die lost in the desert. It would also save the lives of border control agents that are killed by the criminals among the illegals. I think it's funny that the Libs here think Mexicans are to dumb to understand that concept of an electrified fence, they imagine thousands of dead Mexicans hanging from the border fence. If we just took the heads of the first few stupid enough to electrocute themselves and put their heads on pikes I doubt many would follow.
Monday, October 17, 2011 12:48 PM
Quote:GOP presidential candidate Herman Cain acknowledged Sunday that his 9-9-9 plan would raise taxes for some Americans, Reuters reports. "Some people will pay more. But most people will pay less," Cain, a former chief executive of Godfather's Pizza said on NBC's "Meet the Press," as reported by Reuters.
Monday, October 17, 2011 12:53 PM
Monday, October 17, 2011 3:37 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: By the way, Kirk, I *do* think YOU are "to dumb" to understand, well... much of anything, really.
Monday, October 17, 2011 4:12 PM
Monday, October 17, 2011 4:18 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: An electric fence? Welcome to my rubber blanket factory, conveniently located next to the electric fence, on the Mexican side (cheap labor, natch). A 20-foot wall? Welcome to my ladder factory, where our biggest selling ladder is the 21-footer. We also save money by stamping "Hecho en Mexico" on them, amigo!
Monday, October 17, 2011 6:07 PM
RIONAEIRE
Beir bua agus beannacht
Monday, October 17, 2011 6:25 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kirkules: Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: By the way, Kirk, I *do* think YOU are "to dumb" to understand, well... much of anything, really. Kwicko, you sad pathetic little puppy dog. I've told you before don't come to me any longer for your abuse. My pity for you overcame my dislike long ago. There are plenty around still willing to give you the abuse you feel you deserve but I hope some day you'll get the help you need to learn that it my seem that negative attention is better than being ignored but it's not. Thanks for thinking of me but I will now go back to ignoring you for your own good and hope others will do the same.
Monday, October 17, 2011 6:27 PM
Quote:Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat: Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: An electric fence? Welcome to my rubber blanket factory, conveniently located next to the electric fence, on the Mexican side (cheap labor, natch). A 20-foot wall? Welcome to my ladder factory, where our biggest selling ladder is the 21-footer. We also save money by stamping "Hecho en Mexico" on them, amigo! Go-een eento competition weeth my chovel ( shovel) store, senoro. We deeg under thee pinche fence.
Tuesday, October 18, 2011 7:45 AM
Quote: If we just took the heads of the first few stupid enough to electrocute themselves and put their heads on pikes I doubt many would follow.
Tuesday, October 18, 2011 1:17 PM
Tuesday, October 18, 2011 2:49 PM
Tuesday, October 18, 2011 4:06 PM
M52NICKERSON
DALEK!
Quote:Originally posted by AURaptor: Farm animals can't read, either. But they see one of their own get zapped, they can figure it out, I'm guessing.
Tuesday, October 18, 2011 4:14 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kirkules: I don't know if you've noticed but my avatar is a dude with a bloody sword. I am a caricature of a conservative designed to help keep liberals in the state of perpetual outrage they enjoy so much.
Tuesday, October 18, 2011 5:04 PM
Tuesday, October 18, 2011 5:07 PM
PIRATENEWS
John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!
Tuesday, October 18, 2011 5:13 PM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: Quote:Originally posted by Kirkules: I don't know if you've noticed but my avatar is a dude with a bloody sword. I am a caricature of a conservative designed to help keep liberals in the state of perpetual outrage they enjoy so much. ...or your Avatar is of a gay actor.
Wednesday, October 19, 2011 6:24 AM
Wednesday, October 19, 2011 9:29 AM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: ...or your Avatar is of a gay actor.
Wednesday, October 19, 2011 2:29 PM
Wednesday, October 19, 2011 5:08 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Quote: If a lot of people want to go somewhere over a miles-and-MILES-long stretch of land, barriers aren't going to stop them. Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani, Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”, signing off
Quote: If a lot of people want to go somewhere over a miles-and-MILES-long stretch of land, barriers aren't going to stop them.
Thursday, October 20, 2011 2:38 AM
Quote:Originally posted by RionaEire: How is gayness relevent to this conversation whatsoever? Its not.
Thursday, October 20, 2011 4:02 AM
GEEZER
Keep the Shiny side up
Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Herman Cain said he had been joking when he called for a fence along the Mexican border with “electrified barbed wire” that could kill people trying to enter the country illegally. He added: “America needs to get a sense of humor.”
Friday, October 21, 2011 7:42 AM
FREMDFIRMA
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: I wonder what Herman Cain's reaction would be if the white folks in his town put up a lethal electric fence around the country club. Or the whites-only lunch counter. Would he have gotten the message?
Friday, October 21, 2011 10:17 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Herman Cain said he had been joking when he called for a fence along the Mexican border with “electrified barbed wire” that could kill people trying to enter the country illegally. He added: “America needs to get a sense of humor.” Ah. Selective editing again, Niki? You left out part of Mr. Cain's quote, since it kind'a indicates he WAS joking. “We’ve got to secure the border. Truly secure it. I had a caller one night call in: ‘Mr. Cain, you conservatives have got to stop this talk about building a fence.’ I said, Why? ‘You know that is impractical.’ Oh really? I think I had just got back from China, and I went to the Great Wall of China. They built a wall; I think with today’s technology we can build a fence. And if they were to put me in charge of the fence, I know we’d build a fence. Somebody asked me, well, what kind of fence would you build? I tell you, it would be a combination of technology and a real fence. It would be about 20 feet high. It would have electrified barbed wire on the top." You left out the next bit. "And on this side of it, it would have a moat the depth of a football field. And yes, Mr. President, it would have alligators in it.” "Keep the Shiny side up"
Friday, October 21, 2011 10:33 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by Niki2: Herman Cain said he had been joking when he called for a fence along the Mexican border with “electrified barbed wire” that could kill people trying to enter the country illegally. He added: “America needs to get a sense of humor.” Ah. Selective editing again, Niki? You left out part of Mr. Cain's quote, since it kind'a indicates he WAS joking. “We’ve got to secure the border. Truly secure it. I had a caller one night call in: ‘Mr. Cain, you conservatives have got to stop this talk about building a fence.’ I said, Why? ‘You know that is impractical.’ Oh really? I think I had just got back from China, and I went to the Great Wall of China. They built a wall; I think with today’s technology we can build a fence. And if they were to put me in charge of the fence, I know we’d build a fence. Somebody asked me, well, what kind of fence would you build? I tell you, it would be a combination of technology and a real fence. It would be about 20 feet high. It would have electrified barbed wire on the top." You left out the next bit. "And on this side of it, it would have a moat the depth of a football field. And yes, Mr. President, it would have alligators in it.” "Keep the Shiny side up"
Friday, October 21, 2011 1:16 PM
Quote:Originally posted by m52nickerson: If he is not kidding I might vote for him, a moat with alligators would be cool as fuck!
Friday, October 21, 2011 1:20 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: hat makes you think he was joking?
Quote:He's also flat-out said he wants an electrified fence with signs on it saying "This fence will kill you."
Friday, October 21, 2011 5:43 PM
Quote:(AP/The Huffington Post) — Herman Cain has risen fast. Now the question is: Will he fall? As Republican presidential hopefuls were preparing for a debate here Tuesday night, Cain has been facing more and more intense scrutiny as his poll numbers have jumped upward. Now that he's in the national spotlight, he's already had to apologize for comments he made over the weekend calling for an electric fence on the Southern border with Mexico. At a campaign stop Monday in Arizona, Cain appeared with Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, an aggressive anti-immigration proponent. "It was a joke," Cain said emphatically during a news conference. "I apologize if I offended anyone. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa." However, the Phoenix New Times, reports: Only, it might not be a joke, he later said, before finally saying he just doesn't want to offend anyone. "I don't like to offend anyone...however, I don't apologize for using a combination of a fence. And it might be electrified -- I'm not walking away from that," Cain backtracked. "I just don't want to offend anybody. It was a joke to the extent in the context of the views of that speech, but in terms of what we need to do, I fully intend to do so because I'm more sensitive to our citizens being hurt." Cain told an audience in Tennessee on Saturday that the fence is "going to be electrified. And there is going to be a sign on the other side that says, `It will kill you.'" Rep. Charlie Gonzalez (D-Texas), who chairs the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, took issue with the presidential contender's remarks. "Words have consequences, both in shaping ideas and inspiring actions. Whether or not he made his comments in jest, Mr. Cain's words show a lack of understanding of the immigration issues our country is facing and a staggering lack of sensitivity," he said. Immigration already has flared on the campaign trail -- and contributed to the sinking of another fast-rising GOP candidate. Texas Gov. Rick Perry has struggled to explain why he signed a law giving in-state tuition breaks to undocumented immigrants at Texas universities. When he first entered the race, he was at or near the top of many national polls. He's fallen back since, and Cain has emerged as the more popular alternative to former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney. Cain raised eyebrows over the summer with remarks he made on the issue of border security during a stop in Iowa. ThinkProgress relays what the presidential hopeful had to say: I just got back from China. Ever heard of the Great Wall of China? It looks pretty sturdy. And that sucker is real high. I think we can build one if we want to! We have put a man on the moon, we can build a fence! Now, my fence might be part Great Wall and part electrical technology...It will be a twenty foot wall, barbed wire, electrified on the top, and on this side of the fence, I'll have that moat that President Obama talked about. And I would put those alligators in that moat! Shortly after, Cain was asked about his comments in an interview with New York Times Magazine. You said of the Great Wall of China, "I think we could build one" as a solution to our immigration problems. Are you concerned that as many as three million Chinese died building it? [Cain:] My point was, if they could build that wall centuries ago without bulldozers, we can secure the border today. It could be a combination of walls and high-tech equipment. Now, if accidents happen, that's one thing. But I think we can improve upon that ratio of three million people dying.
Friday, October 21, 2011 6:56 PM
CANTTAKESKY
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: So it's a joke when someone calls him on it, but then he's serious about it and not backing away from it, and he doesn't want anyone to die, but sees anything less than three million deaths as an "improvement".
Saturday, October 22, 2011 2:59 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: (AP/The Huffington Post)...However, the Phoenix New Times, reports: ...Rep. Charlie Gonzalez (D-Texas), who chairs the Congressional Hispanic Caucus,... ThinkProgress relays...
Quote:So it's a joke when someone calls him on it, but then he's serious about it and not backing away from it, and he doesn't want anyone to die, but sees anything less than three million deaths as an "improvement". Right. Got it.
Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:05 AM
Saturday, October 22, 2011 4:42 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: (AP/The Huffington Post)...However, the Phoenix New Times, reports: ...Rep. Charlie Gonzalez (D-Texas), who chairs the Congressional Hispanic Caucus,... ThinkProgress relays... So much for complete videos or speech transcripts. These folks do the same thing you do. Take bits out of context and build a whole false story around them.
Quote: Quote:So it's a joke when someone calls him on it, but then he's serious about it and not backing away from it, and he doesn't want anyone to die, but sees anything less than three million deaths as an "improvement". Right. Got it. I bet when you watched that video, you chuckled.
Saturday, October 22, 2011 2:26 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: You lose.
Sunday, October 23, 2011 3:57 AM
Quote:Originally posted by Geezer: Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: You lose. Liar "Keep the Shiny side up"
Sunday, October 23, 2011 7:23 PM
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