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That brought a rebuke from New York City's health commissioner, Dr. Thomas Farley.

"Claiming that this is healthier is a second scam ... it's totally false," he said. He said the health risks from cigarettes come from inhaling the cancer-causing agents produced by burning tobacco leaves. "There is nothing safe about an 'all natural' tobacco leaf."

Farley also defended the city's high taxes on cigarettes, saying that studies had shown that they are pressuring people into quitting, or not taking up the habit, and thereby saving lives.

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Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Where in the law does it say that the prohibition of cigarettes is not allowed?

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Where in the law does it say that the prohibition of cigarettes is not allowed?

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No. you're supposed to say "Where in the Constitution does it say that the prohibition of cigarettes is not allowed?"

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Ok, lemme clarify - the reason it ain't been outlawed is cause they'd not ever get the votes for it, so "screw democracy we'll outlaw it anyway with backdoor abuse of the tax code!" - THAT, is bullshit.

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I think Freedom is just a word until you've defended something you don't personally enjoy. Going out on a limb for someone else's rights is particularly difficult when you don't care for the thing in question. Sometimes the thing in question is just other people's favorite route to oblivion.

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Originally posted by M52NICKERSON:

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Ok, lemme clarify - the reason it ain't been outlawed is cause they'd not ever get the votes for it, so "screw democracy we'll outlaw it anyway with backdoor abuse of the tax code!" - THAT, is bullshit.

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That is where you are wrong. You do get a vote, you get to vote the elective representative in government. We have a representative democracy, not a direct democracy.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
If a right isn't universal, it isn't a right at all - it's a privilege for the few who can afford it.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
I get one vote. How many votes does a lobbyist get? Or a corporation?

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
As Frem pointed out, this isn't about health or fairness - it's about punishing people for behavior that a vocal few don't approve of. McDonald's kills more people than Phillip Morris or Annheiser Busch. Where is their sin tax?

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Originally posted by canttakesky:

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Originally posted by Kwicko:
If a right isn't universal, it isn't a right at all - it's a privilege for the few who can afford it.

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Brilliant and beautiful. You rock, Kwicko.

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Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth. -- Lucy Parsons (1853-1942, labor activist and anarcho-communist)

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Originally posted by m52nickerson:

Your right it is not about health or fairness, it is about taxing something that at this point the vast majority of people don't do and don't care if it is taxed. Welcome to democracy, where for the most part it still is majority rules.

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Your right it is not about health or fairness, it is about taxing something that at this point the vast majority of people don't do and don't care if it is taxed. Welcome to democracy, where for the most part it still is majority rules.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I am personally not approaching this as a conversation about democracy or the United States in particular. I'm sure that the tyranny of the majority is dutifully codified into our laws. I see this more as a general conversation about Freedom.

I think that we should not deprive people of choices just because we don't like their choices. This, I espouse as a philosophy of living with other human beings, and not as a particular quality to any single human government.

I feel it is wrong to force our preferences of behavior onto others. If someone wants to find a lonely place and smoke themselves into an early grave, I will counsel against it. But I won't seek to use any system against them- Even when such systems are available to me. It is every individual's right to abuse themselves in whatever fashion pleases them- according to my philosophy. It is only when they abuse others that I must move to stop them.


--Anthony

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

I wonder if maybe we should start taxing protesters. After all, it's something that the vast majority of people don't do, and don't care if it is taxed. I bet we could erase a chunk of our deficit and help pay for healthcare for the poor if we just taxed every Occupy protester $5000 for a permit to protest.

That's ludicrous, of course, and I'm joking, but it's illustrative of the idea that it's fine to charge outrageous taxes just because most people don't care about a thing. I can't really find in the Constitution where it says that "the Congress shall have the right to tax people whenever they find something the people don't seem to care about."

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