REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Bush Cancels Travel Plans to Avoid Arrest for Torture

POSTED BY: KWICKO
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 15:28
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VIEWED: 3308
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Saturday, December 3, 2011 5:34 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)







Quote:

Former U.S. President George W. Bush has cancelled a visit to Switzerland over fears he could have been arrested on torture charges.
Mr Bush was due to be the keynote speaker at a Jewish charity gala in Geneva on February 12.
But pressure has been building on the Swiss government to arrest him and open a criminal investigation if he enters the country.
Criminal complaints against Mr Bush alleging torture have been lodged in Geneva, court officials said.
Human rights groups said they had intended to submit a 2,500-page case against him in the Swiss city tomorrow for alleged mistreatment of suspected militants at Guantanamo Bay.
Left-wing groups have also called for a protest on the day of his visit, leading organisers at Keren Hayesod's annual dinner to cancel Mr Bush's participation on security grounds.
The New York-based Human Rights Watch and International Federation of Human Rights (FIDH) said the cancellation was linked to growing moves told him accountable for the use of torture, including waterboarding.




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1354211/George-W-Bush-cancels-
Switzerland-visit-fears-arrest-torture-charges.html#ixzz1fUChb2NB





"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill


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Saturday, December 3, 2011 5:42 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Quote:

Left-wing groups have also called for a protest on the day of his visit


And yet Iran's President is invited to speak at an American university, is greeted with open arms, even as he denounces the existence of gays in his country.






"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 5:48 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Hee, hee, hee, makes me giggle. It'll be a long time before he feels comfortable going to any number of other countries. Good!



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Saturday, December 3, 2011 6:05 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"Human rights groups said they had intended to submit a 2,500-page case against him in the Swiss city tomorrow for alleged mistreatment of suspected militants at Guantanamo Bay."

Hello,

Perhaps President Obama will face similar troubles once he is no longer protected by head-of-state status.

A continuation of indefinite detention and a failure to pursue torturers makes him an accomplice to human rights violations.

So he, too, may be unable to visit other countries once he retires from office.

Good.

--Anthony



_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner


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Saturday, December 3, 2011 6:17 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Hello,

Perhaps President Obama will face similar troubles once he is no longer protected by head-of-state status.

A continuation of indefinite detention and a failure to pursue torturers makes him an accomplice to human rights violations.

So he, too, may be unable to visit other countries once he retires from office.

Good.





Personally, I think both are equally INNOCENT of any such absurd charges, but you do bring up a valid point. If one's guilty, so is the other, right?

Still gigglin', Niki?



"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 7:19 AM

DREAMTROVE


The Swiss are awesome.


Auraptor,

Technically, he *denies* the existence of gays in his country, which is a quirk, but considering his political environment it probably saves him from having to launch a purge against them. Anyway, I don't think the two are equivalent.

The more curious question is under what legal jurisdiction is he in trouble? Did we torture a Swiss citizen? Or on Swiss ground? Or was he just going to Geneva to apologize for breaking their conventions. Swiss can be picky about people obeying the local custom.


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 7:36 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
The Swiss are awesome.


Auraptor,

Technically, he *denies* the existence of gays in his country, which is a quirk, but considering his political environment it probably saves him from having to launch a purge against them. Anyway, I don't think the two are equivalent.



No, they're not equivalent, but the list of human rights violations of which Iran is guilty, as well as funding and supplying terrorist groups who do murder and torture, makes this " protest " all the more disconnected w/ reality.

Quote:



The more curious question is under what legal jurisdiction is he in trouble? Did we torture a Swiss citizen? Or on Swiss ground? Or was he just going to Geneva to apologize for breaking their conventions. Swiss can be picky about people obeying the local custom.



To the Left, anyone who supports freedom, capitalism and fights tyranny IS a criminal.



"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 8:37 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

supports freedom, capitalism and fights tyranny
You seem to have conflated capitalism and freedom. I support freedom, fight capitalism, and oppose tyranny so what does that make me?


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Saturday, December 3, 2011 8:45 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:

supports freedom, capitalism and fights tyranny
You seem to have conflated capitalism and freedom. I support freedom, fight capitalism, and oppose tyranny so what does that make me?




capitalism does = freedom. No conflation going on here, in the least.



"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 9:04 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, that explains your confusion then.

-------------

For everyone else, when someone says "freedom" please be sure to ask: "Freedom for WHOM? And to do WHAT?"

It goes along with the same question when someone says "we" (or "people"). I always think... "What means this 'we', kimo sabe?"

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 9:07 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:

Left-wing groups have also called for a protest on the day of his visit


And yet Iran's President is invited to speak at an American university, is greeted with open arms, even as he denounces the existence of gays in his country.




I find it humorous that you compare Iran's president to Bush.

However, I seem to remember quite a few protests when Iran's president came here. Maybe they didn't show those on FauxNews, so you might have missed them.

I'm curious, though - if Iran is indeed guilty of much worse human rights violations, as you claim, then why wasn't Ahmedinejad arrested upon his arrival in the U.S.? After all, it was during Bush's time in office. Are you saying that by Bush letting him get away with this stuff he's an accomplice in Iran's human rights violations? If one's guilty, so is the other - isn't that what you said?

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 9:08 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

capitalism does = freedom. No conflation going on here, in the least.




Every capitalist nation is free?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 9:15 AM

DREAMTROVE


Are either the Swiss or the Iranians here representing "The left" ?!?!?

Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Every capitalist nation is free?



And socialist ones are 99% off!


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 9:19 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Are either the Swiss or the Iranians here representing "The left" ?!?!?



Apparently in RappyLand™, the Swiss ARE "the Left". I'm not sure where the Iranians fit into this story, but Rap seems to think that their president is replacing Bush at the charity gala.

Quote:


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Every capitalist nation is free?



And socialist ones are 99% off!



Don't forget: Free Tibet! (While supplies last)


"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 9:29 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"Human rights groups said they had intended to submit a 2,500-page case against him in the Swiss city tomorrow for alleged mistreatment of suspected militants at Guantanamo Bay."

Hello,

Perhaps President Obama will face similar troubles once he is no longer protected by head-of-state status.

A continuation of indefinite detention and a failure to pursue torturers makes him an accomplice to human rights violations.

So he, too, may be unable to visit other countries once he retires from office.

Good.





You nailed it dead on, Anthony.

And that's exactly the point - if it's a crime for Bush to do it, it's a crime for Obama to continue doing it.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 12:12 PM

DREAMTROVE


Agreed with both of y'all.

I always went with "Free Tibet with every purchase" but I guess that works. Actually, It always sounded kinda like a casino scam to me.


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 1:14 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Well, that explains your confusion then.


Actually, it explains yours.





"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 1:17 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Apparently in RappyLand™, the Swiss ARE "the Left". I'm not sure where the Iranians fit into this story, but Rap seems to think that their president is replacing Bush at the charity gala.



No, but "the Left " goes out of its way to harass and accuse the defenders of freedom, while ignoring the real tyrants of the world.



"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 1:59 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

No, but "the Left " goes out of its way to harass and accuse the defenders of freedom, while ignoring the real tyrants of the world.



Rap, that may be true, but in this case, Bush *is* a tyrant, as is his double, Obama. They are not defenders of freedom. Freedom is when you're free to do stuff, like fly on an airplane, run a website, start a farm, or plan a wedding without anyone detaining you, shutting you down, destroying your property or killing you.

Tyranny is when you have your own secret police force which can cross any border, seize any person, steal their belongings, forcibly move them wherever they want, imprison them, torture them and finally kill them.

Iran is somewhere in the middle, but I know where Bush and Obama are, and also, I'm pretty sure that Switzerland is closer to freedom.


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 4:15 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Bush Cancels Travel Plans to Avoid Arrest for Torture"

heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh ...

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Monday, December 5, 2011 1:42 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Well as I figure it if the Swiss can do that then we can do stuff like that too, maybe next time the Iranian president comes knockin we can arrest him too, why stop there, if we can arrest him then lets step out and just start doing other things to them that we currently aren't allowed to do. If countries could just invite heads of state over for tea and arrest them then they could start inviting them over for tea and accidentally put an end to them too, I guess that tea was a lil' stronger than I thought. Come to think of it we'd have no need to have the Quadruple S if things were that basic.

I'm playing, but that would be weird if people could arrest each other's heads of state, what would they do if they found them guilty? Could they behead them too? Why not skip all the details?

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, December 5, 2011 5:37 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


capitalism does = freedom.

LOL, dementia, anyone?


The laughing Chrisisall


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Monday, December 5, 2011 5:51 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Bush Cancels Travel Plans to Avoid Arrest for Torture"

When I read that title this little song plays in my head:

It's a small world after all,
It's a small world after all,
It's a small world after all,
It's a small, small world.

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Monday, December 5, 2011 6:49 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


capitalism does = freedom.

LOL, dementia , anyone?



I do not believe that word means what you think it means.




"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Tuesday, December 6, 2011 3:50 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Last updated at 8:57 PM on 6th February 2011

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1354211/George-W-Bush-cancels-
Switzerland-visit-fears-arrest-torture-charges.html#ixzz1flJfboDq



And in other news, Henry VIII becomes King of England.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 11:55 AM

KRELLEK



perhaps they should have done it slightly in secret that so that the moment he set foot on Swiss soil they came and arrested him

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 12:07 PM

DREAMTROVE


A Riona a chara,

What has the Iranian president done that we would arrest him for? Drone theft?

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, December 21, 2011 3:28 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I don't think I was explicitly saying we should arrest him, I think I was just talking. It was a while ago and I don't have time to go back and read.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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