Republican Sheriff Arrested Trading Methamphetamines for Sex with Men by Kwicko

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Let me point out we've had this discussion many, many times. It's the element of hypocrisy in the party of the religious righteous that makes it relevant.

It's like the republicans supporting bloated military budgets and corporate welfare while decrying fiscal irresponsibility, or the tea party claiming to be the party of the people while gutting their ability to vote, to freely associate for better pay and conditions, and gutting environmental protections.

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Friday, December 2, 2011 6:02 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Amen Kiki. As to the titles, I believe "Governor" and "President" are titles which remain with people after they leave office--I know President is, but I'm not sure about Governor. "Sheriff" is not a title which I believe somene owns after leaving their job, so "retired sheriff" would be more accurate. As to using Republican in the title of the thread, I think that's right in line with Raptor using "Democrat"; the only difference is lack of underlining to make the point.

It's sad, but we do often discover that people who were highly respected turn out to have a darker side which is discovered later. Even a few well-respected sports figures have been found to be involved in dog fighting and pedophilia, if I recall...

The point that the party of family values makes stories like this show hypocrisy is well taken, except that we don't know if this guy was a serious Republican or has ever railed against anyone else's lack of family values.

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Friday, December 2, 2011 6:40 AM

...I'm not really sure why any of this should be a crime.

Homosexuality and homoerotic behaviour should not be a crime, prostitution should not be a crime, recreational drugs should not be a crime, therefore trading recreational drugs for same sex relations should not be a crime.

I suppose he was hung by idiotic and pointless laws that he may have at one time enforced. But I'm not even sure that's irony. Poetic justice?

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Friday, December 2, 2011 6:41 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"... except that we don't know if this guy was a serious Republican or has ever railed against anyone else's lack of family values."

He was a politically active republican and displayed a high level of personal and professional hypocrisy.

"Patrick J. Sullivan was known for ... his concern about teenage drug use. ... several informants gave information attesting that Sullivan was connected to the distribution and use of meth. ... confidential informants ... claimed Sullivan was dealing the drug, and would only sell it if they had sex with him. ... he was named Sheriff of the Year ... >>> for his work as law enforcement chairman of the Colorado George W. Bush for President committee <<<."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57334054-504083/ex-colo-sheriff
-patrick-sullivan-arrested-in-drugs-for-sex-sting-held-in-jail-named-for-himself/

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Friday, December 2, 2011 7:44 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

This "Sheriff" was an advocate of gun-control.

So, like most people who are, he was a moral deviant with a god-complex.

He was a RINO and shared most ideologies with libs.

No big loss.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

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Friday, December 2, 2011 7:52 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Byte, you're right to a large extent. Given he wsa retired, what he did in private should have been his own business and nobody else's.

And I still can't accuse him of hypocrisy unless it can be shown that he spoke out against someone else's "family values".

Then again, there's certainly hypocrisy in his actions when compared to this:

Quote:
Interestingly, he was also a prominent opponent of medical marijuana, and served as co-chair of Citizens Against the Legalization of Marijuana. The opposition group helped to keep MMJ legalization off Colorado voters' ballots in 1998. http://www.coloradopols.com/diary/16827/former-sheriff-pat-sullivan-ar
rested-held-in-patrick-j-sullivan-jr-detention-facility]

Actually, given that, in my opinion this is kind of a non-story, put up for partisan reasons.

My gawd, Wulf, you are truly pathetic. You have nothing whatsoever to contribute to a discussion, only parroting talking points you heard...where? My money's on FauxNews.

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Friday, December 2, 2011 8:10 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"And I still can't accuse him of hypocrisy unless it can be shown that he spoke out against someone else's "family values"."

What about his anti-drug stance and his own drug use? I think that qualifies as being publicly and professionally an advocate for one thing, and a private practitioner of the thing he decries.

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Friday, December 2, 2011 8:26 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Also, Byte, I agree. Our laws should focus on crimes where there is a victim and/ or inflicted damage. What we are doing as a society essentially jailing people b/c we are prissy scolds with our panties in a bunch would be humorous, if we weren't spending so much time, money and effort on it.

Having said that, I do think there are some drugs that should not be freely available to anyone just for the buying. Their addictive and disruptive potential is just too high to allow everyone to just experiment on themselves. What I think we should be doing is de-criminalizing some drugs, and offering treatment instead of jail for those who are addicted to the illegal ones (as well as treatment for those who are addicted to the legal kind as well).

As a sheriff though, he was charged with enforcing the laws of his jurisdiction, including on himself. That is an obligation he knowingly took on when he took the job.

But then again, he wouldn't be the first law enforcement officer to sample and get hooked on the goods that routinely go by. If we had a sane policy, which IMHO we don't, he would get addiction treatment instead of jail.

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Friday, December 2, 2011 9:27 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
...I'm not really sure why any of this should be a crime.

Homosexuality and homoerotic behaviour should not be a crime, prostitution should not be a crime, recreational drugs should not be a crime, therefore trading recreational drugs for same sex relations should not be a crime.

I suppose he was hung by idiotic and pointless laws that he may have at one time enforced. But I'm not even sure that's irony. Poetic justice?

Indeed.

-F

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Friday, December 2, 2011 1:35 PM

I guess technically there are some worthwhile laws against cooking methamphetamine, relative to lingering toxicity and pollution concerns. So methamphetamine cooking can be considered to have innocent "victims." Other than that, I'm not sure we really have any say against USING methamphetamine. While it'd be nice to protect people against becoming addicts, ultimately people have to make their own choices.

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Friday, December 2, 2011 1:50 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I'm beginning to suspect Auraptor and Kwicko are both River6213

I think it more likely that Rappy and you are one and the same. After all, I've already outed a few of your sockpuppets, so we know you're no stranger to using aliases to try to bolster your arguments.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, December 2, 2011 7:32 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Tennessee leads the nation in sheriffs convicted of dope dealin.

Go VOLS!

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 4:49 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"While it'd be nice to protect people against becoming addicts, ultimately people have to make their own choices."

Well ... IMO

First of all, young people shouldn't have that option. Their judgment is too unformed, and their propensity to take risks and do whatever they feel they need to do to belong with peers too strong, for them to realistically assess risk.* In addition their brains are still developing, and extremely susceptible to only modestly addictive psychoactive like caffeine, alcohol and nicotine. Even these drugs will alter permanent brain architecture. Very psychoactive substances would be even more risky to a younger brain.

More than that, there are some drugs that I don't think should be freely available to anyone. Giving them a try is like testing your ability to fly by stepping off a cliff.

*There is a new theory that teenage risk taking, peer bonding and disobedience are a function of their need to create a peer society for the time when they need to cooperate to raise families, and to create their independence. Some now think of it as a functional 'dysfunction'. But if you add in freely available drugs, the transition through puberty looks to me like a major Darwin Award gauntlet. Here kids, do want you want. See you on the other side (not). ALSO - one of the things one notices about 'traditional society' - African Bushmen, Inuit etc - is that they have very tight control over the passage of the young into increasingly adult society. I think it does a few things. It gives them a set of measures by which they assess themselves and others assess them. It gives them goals. It invests them in the social rules, important in societies where 'how to stay alive' has been worked out and experimentation is not that valuable. The western model of teenage rebellion and increasing freedom is not universally applicable.

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 6:01 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

And what does the gender of the person he's trading drugs for sex with have to do with anything?

The sex of the person he's trading drugs for sex with only goes to his own hypocrisy. He - and you - support a party that doesn't believe gays have any rights at all. I suppose you're okay with the prostitution bit of it, just as long as he doesn't try to marry any of these men, eh?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 3:14 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
He - and you - support a party that doesn't believe gays have any rights at all. I suppose you're okay with the prostitution bit of it, just as long as he doesn't try to marry any of these men, eh?

Wrong again, Mike. You'd know if you actually read folks posts instead of just looking for spelling errors.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 6:48 AM

Quote:
First of all, young people shouldn't have that option.

My high school friends, and this is in Utah, mind you, used recreational drugs and bought cigarettes as teenagers despite the laws against it. One of them was a partier and a raver, and regularly partook in binge drinking, drugs, and unprotected sex. Several of them got married and divorced already and had kids out of wedlock and put up for adoption.

I'm willing to admit my friends are all total MORONS. Yet I like they anyway, and there is in fact a wide gulf between experimentation and destroying their lives forever. Or even becoming an addict and never being able to recover.

I uphold their choices are more important than their safety. They would not be the people they are today if they had not made those choices.

Talking about the poor peer pressured children, adults have the same pressures and absolutely no better judgement.

Most of the rites of passage you mention? Take place around puberty. On average, we're talking 13 year olds, though the influx of chemicals in our diet have caused that to maybe be 11, 12. I don't really think elven, twelve, or thirteen year olds are all that different mentally, developmentally, or in the sense of maturity.

Obviously, we EVOLVED having hormone insane teenagers doing what they will. It has not destroyed the human race. And I can't agree with the idea that they somehow need PROTECTION from their own lives and choices.

That's the same argument that was used to keep women second class citizens for millenia. It did women no favours.

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 6:59 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
... or the tea party claiming to be the party of the people while gutting their ability to vote, to freely associate for better pay and conditions, and gutting environmental protections.

Gee, great. More false accusations towards the TEA Party types. How novel.

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 7:27 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Kiki, I happen to agree with most everything you wrote. I think the "law" deals with it wrong, but yes, young people are often what you described.

Personal experience: In college I was introduced to drugs, when I was in my "fuck the world" stage after 18 years of my family dysfunction. Most people got drunk at parties; booze has never liked me, and the feeling is mutual, so when I discovered pot and we both immediately liked one another, it became my party drug of choice.

I fell for a guy who was absolutely brilliant but totally fucked up. He and our philosophy teacher would go at it for almost the entire class period occasionally, while the rest of us sat around marveling and not understanding a word of it, and he wrote and sang beautiful songs. At the time, he was shooting meth in one arm, acid in the other, and I couldn't comprehend why someone with so much going for them would be so self-destructive. So I went to his roommate and asked to experience speed. Didn't know his roommate was also a speed freak, so he shot me up with a whole nickle bag. The minute it hit my system, my first thought was "ahhh, now I understand".

I spent the next six months shooting speed with him, until he returned to the Merchant Marines and I discovered his sister, who I liked very much and had done speed with, was seriously ill with--damn, I forget it now, a disease many get from shared needles back then (not AIDS). I stopped shooting, tho' I occasionally did the little cross-top-whites for a few more years, but I moved into my first communal house and discovered mescaline and psylocybin, which immediately became my drugs of choice (I LOVED the color trips!).

A few years later I stopped doing all drugs but pot, which I've enjoyed ever since, for decades now as just an "evening cocktail".

Ironically, Li Sing found me a couple of years ago and visited. He's straight, been through a couple of marriages, fighting to stay in his son's life (who he loves dearly), and it turned out he'd looked me up because he had the same rosy memories of me that I'd hugged to myself all these years, and thought I was the "lost love" of his life, would leave Jim and go off with him I'm not anything like the person he knew, however, any more than he is who he was. He stayed for a couple of days; when I wouldn't go off with him, he left and cut all ties with me. Essentially all he did was ruin a precious memory for both of us.

So yes, in a way the majority of us grew out of it and survived. A few didn't. In that way it's a Darwinian thing, coupled with luck, but the chances we took could have formed our lives, or taken them. Was I smart enough to quit drugs, or lucky enough? Or both? I dunno.

The fact that marijuana is a "Schedule One" drug, given many who are Schedule Two, is abominable to me. I could say it was luck that I didn't suffer permanent harm, but given it was at least half a decision of choice, the other came into it. LSD was the ONLY drug I wouldn't take--I even tried opium and cocaine, once each. They did nothing for me. Even then I firmly believed that one had to know oneself VERY well to chance LSD, and even then it was a risk--I'd talked down too many friends on bad trips.

So yes, in my opinion too

Quote:
Their judgment is too unformed, and their propensity to take risks and do whatever they feel they need to do to belong with peers too strong, for them to realistically assess risk. In addition their brains are still developing, and extremely susceptible to only modestly addictive psychoactive like caffeine, alcohol and nicotine. Even these drugs will alter permanent brain architecture. Very psychoactive substances would be even more risky to a younger brain.

Throwing people in jail isn't the answer (I also had a long-time friend, a good and decent man who briefly dealt pot, who was targeted by TPTB, lured to Texas and busted because the laws there were harsher--did years in prison but luckily came out whole), and I don't know what is, but merely letting them make their own decisions can have disastrous consequences. On the other hand, for MOST of them, even bad decisions are part of being human and growing up, so there's that to consider as well. Most of us survive and grew up okay, which doesn't mean it was right.

Oh, and Kiki, I agree about the Tea Party; we have much in common, and maybe it's a necessary evolution that we have them as a warning and an illustration. I can at least hope so, it's terribly sad what happened to them, and what happened to us as a country because of the excellent manipulation job done to them.

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 7:38 AM

When 1kiki said "young people" she meant "teenagers."

College students are adults.

I still hold that adults are just as irresponsible and stupid as teenagers.

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 7:41 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Obviously, we EVOLVED having hormone insane teenagers doing what they will."

Well, ah, no. All the non-monetary societies I can think of have rigid rites and rituals for passing from one stage to the other, and tightly control behavior from infancy through adulthood. That includes who you will marry, who will raise your children, what you do with the game you hunt and the crops you grow, etc. No one is free to give society the big effyu, and everyone is far too dependent on others for survival to risk going off in a snit.

Oh fyi, I meant till around 21-25. Brains are still actively remodeling till then. Though whether 25 is a realistic age is a big question with me.

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 11:22 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I uphold their choices are more important than their safety. They would not be the people they are today if they had not made those choices.

Talking about the poor peer pressured children, adults have the same pressures and absolutely no better judgement.

Most of the rites of passage you mention? Take place around puberty. On average, we're talking 13 year olds, though the influx of chemicals in our diet have caused that to maybe be 11, 12. I don't really think elven, twelve, or thirteen year olds are all that different mentally, developmentally, or in the sense of maturity.

Obviously, we EVOLVED having hormone insane teenagers doing what they will. It has not destroyed the human race. And I can't agree with the idea that they somehow need PROTECTION from their own lives and choices.

That's the same argument that was used to keep women second class citizens for millenia. It did women no favours.

You go, Byte!
Damn straight.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 11:37 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
When 1kiki said "young people" she meant "teenagers."

I was 18; isn't that a teenager? I was also a VERY late bloomer...having had my first kiss and first date at 16. It was jr. college (I never made it past that) and, come to think of it, given my birthday is in October, I was probably 17 at the time.

I will, however, freely grant you that adults are often no better than kids in puberty...

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 5:45 PM

1kiki, when I talk about evolution, I mean pre-society stuff. We're not finding gobs of teenaged protohuman bones out there. Life expectancy was lower but not THAT much lower. Australopithicus almost certainly had the same hormone influx in the teenage years, and weren't nearly so organized as we are. Part of the risky experimental and explorative behaviour we see in teens is actually adaptive behaviour, and we know it's adaptive because it existed prior to civilization and because if they HAD died out at that stage, the human race would have gone extinct.

As such, I must conclude social norms constraining wild teenage behaviour is more about SOCIAL NORMS than it is survival.

I also note that yes, pre-industrial societies can be strictly regimented from infancy to adulthood... But their rite of passage still tends to happen around puberty. Perhaps it isn't true to adult physiological growth or the developing mind, but it IS about the time when the developing human becomes interested in being independent and being a separate entity than their parents. So choice factors very strongly into that age.

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Monday, December 5, 2011 3:38 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I agree Quicko that's an ooky story, maybe not for the same reasons as you think so but still. I think we can both agree that the hypocracy thing is undesirable. Meth is rutted up stuff.

Kiki, I agree with you about it taking a while for good judgement to come into play with humans. I have a strict age designation system that I opperate by, insuring equalization and respect for all. That doesn't mean that everyone's manhood or womanhood looks the same though. I'm 26, I view myself as just as much a woman as someone my age who has a husband and little ones, and someone my age who is touched and doesn't have those things and needs looked after and seen to is just as much a woman too, our womanhood is just different and has differing aspects to it.

Byte I'm going to have to disagree with you on your points about 13 year olds being just as good at making decisions as 30 year olds, that seems very naive and illogical to me. That's part of why its good for kids to wait until they're grown to make babies, rut, get married, provide for themselves without help etc. In novels and rare cases it works out okay (not the babies thing or the marriage/rutting though) but in real life it isn't advisable.

Drugs: I believe that if a person has mental health differences in their genes that street drugs can bring it out in them, not cause it, but bring it out or cause it to manifest sooner. So street drugs, even marijuana, and young people don't mix.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, December 5, 2011 4:55 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"... we know it's adaptive because it existed prior to civilization ..."

Well, here is where we disagree. Most people think the best estimate for pre-civilization humans lies with non-monetary societies AKA hunter-gatherers.

I look at humans as being different from Australopithecus. We are a squishy, weak, fragile species compared even to chimps. IMO the thing that kept us pathetic specimens alive when we left our island paradise was our language, which allowed us to gather, remember and transmit our technology through generations.

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Monday, December 5, 2011 6:44 PM