REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Drone world

POSTED BY: CANTTAKESKY
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 3, 2012 11:25
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VIEWED: 2063
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Sunday, December 25, 2011 12:08 PM

CANTTAKESKY

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Sunday, December 25, 2011 5:56 PM

HERO


Pirates.

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I agree with Hero." Niki2, 2011.

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Monday, December 26, 2011 7:35 AM

DREAMTROVE


i feel like these drones were sent in my direction, but I've been gnawing over my response. I guess that reality would be to recognize drones as a tool, and that would be necessary to determine their proper and improper use.

So, let me start.

Proper use for a drone would be a search and rescue team. If you had 2400 of thelike the us military is currently building, they would be able to cover a massive area in a short amount of time.

Improper use of a drone would be to scare farmers off their land so you could take back some cows.

I figure there much more to be said on where to draw this line.

In traditional warfare, one rule would be "if the opponent is using drones..."

How do I feel about drones in war? It could be a great idea. We might see a future in which robots fight wars with robots.

Drones against humans is unethical, like guns against the unarmed.

Generally speaking, i think armed drones is a dangerou idea, because machines make errors. Sure, humans do too, but when a human makes an error, there can be accounability. The reputation of the humans is damaged if there's not. That can stop the same humans from continuing to act in that manner. Runaway errant drones are runaway errant drones forever.


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Monday, December 26, 2011 2:04 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Too Skynet for me.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, December 27, 2011 6:13 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Obama's legacy:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/national-security/under-obama-a
n-emerging-global-apparatus-for-drone-killing/2011/12/13/gIQANPdILP_story.html


Quote:

In the space of three years, the administration has built an extensive apparatus for using drones to carry out targeted killings of suspected terrorists and stealth surveillance of other adversaries. The apparatus involves dozens of secret facilities, including two operational hubs on the East Coast, virtual Air Force­ ­cockpits in the Southwest and clandestine bases in at least six countries on two continents.


-----
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

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Tuesday, December 27, 2011 7:21 PM

DREAMTROVE


What you're essentially saying, porcupine, is that Obama has actually built Skynet. Oh dear, we elected Miles Dyson.



That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, December 28, 2011 1:31 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
What you're essentially saying, porcupine, is that Obama has actually built Skynet. Oh dear, we elected Miles Dyson.

Yep. I say if they ever make Obama, the Movie, we should cast Joe Morton in the title role as a nod to Obama's role in creating Skynet.

-----
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

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Wednesday, December 28, 2011 3:31 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Glenn rants about Barack "Miles Dyson" Obama. Excellent rant.

http://www.salon.com/2011/12/28/snapshots_of_washingtons_essence/singl
eton
/

ETA: Some of the ranting goodness excerpted:
Quote:

In sum: the President can kill whomever he wants anywhere in the world (including U.S. citizens) without a shred of check or oversight, and has massively escalated these killings since taking office (at the time of Obama’s inauguration, the U.S. used drone attacks in only one country (Pakistan); under Obama, these attacks have occurred in at least six Muslim countries). Because it’s a Democrat (rather than big, bad George W. Bush) doing this, virtually no members of that Party utter a peep of objection (a few are willing to express only the most tepid, abstract “concerns” about the possibility of future abuse). And even though these systematic, covert killings are widely known and discussed in newspapers all over the world — particularly in the places where they continue to extinguish the lives of innocent people by the dozens, including children — Obama designates even the existence of the program a secret, which means our democratic representatives and all of official Washington are barred by the force of law from commenting on it or even acknowledging that a CIA drone program exists (a prohibition enforced by an administration that has prosecuted leaks it dislikes more harshly than any other prior administration). Then we have this:

Quote:

Another reason for the lack of extensive debate is secrecy. The White House has refused to divulge details about the structure of the drone program or, with rare exceptions, who has been killed. White House and CIA officials declined to speak for attribution for this article.

Inside the White House, according to officials who would discuss the drone program only on the condition of anonymity, the drone is seen as a critical tool whose evolution was accelerating even before Obama was elected.



The Most Transparent Administration Ever™ not only prevents public debate by shrouding the entire program in secrecy — including who they’re killing and why, and even including their claimed legal basis for these killings (what Democratic lawyers decried during the Bush years as the tyranny of “secret law”) — but they then dispatch their own officials to defend what they’re doing solely under the cover of anonymity so there is no accountability.



'The Most Transparent Administration Ever™' is brilliant.

I have a big crush on Glenn right about now.
-----
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

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Wednesday, December 28, 2011 3:59 AM

DREAMTROVE




The thought, of course, occurred to me. And he can act.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, December 28, 2011 9:53 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Technology is, as always, a double edged sword.

As far as "drones" go, that tech on some levels has been around far longer than you think - I can recall one particular incident where I used an RC controlled car with a can of pyrodex duct-taped to the top and wired to a model rocket ignitor connected to the headlight circuit, to create a substantive diversion.(1)

I think that's gonna bite our so-called protectors on the ass in a way, since they're not thinking low tech, and that's how the other guys are gonna retaliate, you just watch.

-Frem
(1) Err, a full can of P-dex was shall we say, a bit much - when Bert makes that same mistake in Tremors 2 I was especially amused.

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Wednesday, December 28, 2011 11:18 AM

CANTTAKESKY


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/05/slow-dance-obamas-
romance-with-the-cia/238849/2
/

Quote:

Still, the New America Foundation, which tracks covert strikes based on news accounts, suggests that the administration is killing fewer innocents than its predecessor; since 2004, the foundation estimates that as many as 20 percent of the fatalities were "nonmilitants," but that in 2010, when drone strikes reached a height of 118 missions, the number was "more like 5 percent." A U.S. official familiar with the details of the program says even those numbers are high; since the beginning of 2009, she says, 180 strikes have killed 1,200 "militants," with only 30 "noncombatants" killed, none since the summer of 2010. The drone is "the most precise weapon in the history of warfare," she says.


1200 assassinations, with 30 innocent bystanders dead.



-----
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

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Wednesday, December 28, 2011 11:05 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Hmm, yanno, that smells vaguely reminiscent of the "body counts" of the Vietnam era, and I suspect it's even less credible.

Just sayin.

-F

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Wednesday, December 28, 2011 11:19 PM

DREAMTROVE


One just has to love freedom enough to have the freedom to declare someone a terrorist after their death.

IIRC, one attack in Quetta which I had posted here killed 800 civilians and 2 combatants, and that information came from our side, since the people in Quetta didn't think of themselves as combatants as that was our first major air strike in that portion of Pakistan.

The kill ratio myth has also returned. We send in our own jihadists against theirs, and then we can claim that so many jihadists were killed and relatively few of everyone else, without mentioning they were on both sides.

Quote:

Still, the New America Foundation, which tracks covert strikes based on news accounts, suggests that the administration is killing fewer innocents than its predecessor; since 2004, the foundation estimates that as many as 20 percent of the fatalities were "nonmilitants," but that in 2010, when drone strikes reached a height of 118 missions, the number was "more like 5 percent." A U.S. official familiar with the details of the program says even those numbers are high; since the beginning of 2009, she says, 180 strikes have killed 1,200 "militants," with only 30 "noncombatants" killed, none since the summer of 2010. The drone is "the most precise weapon in the history of warfare," she says.
Curious doublespeak.

I think that it's more likely... Oh, I see CTS posted this same paragraph. Oh well.

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timel
ine&complete_911_timeline__war_on_terrorism__outside_iraq=complete_911_timeline_pakistan___afghanistan_drone_stikes


Here's a biased source, but it does contain the reports:
Quote:

No Important Militants Killed ... the attack is said to have killed 82, many of them students



Doesn't speak to "the most precise weapon in the history of warfare,"

Numbers *in reports* might have declined because one difference I've noticed is that the Obama admin seems to be more blatantly dishonest, which is saying a lot, but they will lie their asses off to a larger degree, which is how they can make claims like killing bin laden.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Friday, December 30, 2011 2:58 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Good segment on drone warfare on the Rachel Maddow Show:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#4
5821295


-----
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

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Friday, December 30, 2011 3:25 AM

CANTTAKESKY


I'm not sure if this link's already been posted. Excellent article on this whole evil operation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/19/world/asia/air-force-drone-operator
s-show-high-levels-of-stress.html?_r=1


ETA: Corporations involved in drone warfare
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-drones-civilians-2
0111230,0,4297891,full.story


-----
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

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Tuesday, January 3, 2012 11:25 AM

CANTTAKESKY


I can't seem to stop reading about drones.

Shame on us.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/tariq-khan-killed-cia-drone/story?id=152
58659



-----
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

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