Just because it's shiny by SignyM

Beir bua agus beannacht

One of my favorites to sing, not the S and G version though.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Sunday, February 12, 2012 9:53 PM

It is, but that's just eerie, the coincidence.

I been reading the travesty they made of the Gunslinger Girl manga as it seems to be approaching an end, and I'll explain that if I have time a bit later...
I think you would like Claes, siggy, she NEVER played their game, but in the one moment I am thinkin of, I kinda thought of you when the notion of "What is worth protecting" came to mind.

In the meantime, her version of it, here.
(Brina Palencia has such a wonderful voice)

-F

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Sunday, February 12, 2012 10:58 PM

Ok, see - Claes never quite played their game, despite being cyborged, brainwashed and conditioned, she was a person of gentle soul and it really did show through, to the point where the handler they assigned her couldn't really cope and chose to show her as much of a "normal" life as he could possibly get away with, and maybe a bit more.

The SWA predictably bumps him off after one too many attacks of conscience on his part, and tries to wipe her memory of the guy, something a bit less successful than anyone especially them realizes, and her no longer having a handler and impossible to attach to another one, throughout the series she spends much of her time reading (she kind of inherets his office and library) and planting/maintaining a vegetable garden - about the only interaction she has with the SWA is as a test-bed for new and better cybernetics, and that not very often.

The one thing I always liked about the series was how it showcases that no matter how much training, conditioning, brainwashing and cyborging you do - humans ARE STILL HUMAN, you simply can not turn them into mindless, obedient drones and every time you try it will bite you on the ass.
Because nature always wins.
And bite them on the ass it does, hard and repeatedly - watching it do so is one of the satisfying things about this tragic story - although I exclude Rico, since she is more co-conspirator than victim, there is CONSENT there, ergo she's really the only one I don't feel any kinda sorry for.

And so, watching Claes in the background subtly picking at the edges of that conditioning, using her normal-life memories to jam up orders to kill, although she will defend herself or those she cares about, comes to a head near what appears to be the ending of the story as all goes to hell and it's finally decided to put the SWA out to pasture by force...

As the AFVs roll up to the gate, there stands Claes, who's apparently strapped on half the freakin armory, and what she says kinda stuck with me, best translation of it...
"Behind me, within these walls, stands all that remains of my world, my life - my library, my vegetable garden... you will not take these things from me."

That stuck with me, got me thinking - almost all of the abstractions people devote their will, their resources to, are nothing more than a charade, a means by which those who take from us try to justify it, an illusion we hold up to ourselves to blind us from the horrors - but those abstractions, in the end they really don't matter, it's the LITTLE things that do, the small things, the things that we have, hold and care about.

So, this for all of ya, and you don't have to answer, I just want you to think about it.
Other than the obvious, home, hearth and family - what MATTERS to you ?
What, if anything, would cause you to stand up, ante your very life, to protect ?

Those abstracts ?
Or something real ?

THEN think about what *matters* to you, and why.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 3:48 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

S&G got lots of good songs.

I like "For Emily Wherever I May Find Her"

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, February 13, 2012 5:01 AM

WISHIMAY

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

So, this for all of ya, and you don't have to answer, I just want you to think about it.
Other than the obvious, home, hearth and family - what MATTERS to you ?
What, if anything, would cause you to stand up, ante your very life, to protect ?

Those abstracts ?
Or something real ?

THEN think about what *matters* to you, and why.

-Frem

Post got et. Can't paste. Here's my shortened rewrite.

I've always thought some peoples view of what matters depends on if you believe humanity will end or not. I'm one of the ones who believe our day will have an eternal night. The here and now carries more weight with me, and thus -people. You put a person against a thing on a scale and most of the time a person would win. That probably plays into my feelings on a death penalty- if you are completely with out worth, you don't deserve to keep the life you were given. That's my thoughts on it anyway... Cue the "All life is pweciouss" fuzzy wuzzies...

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Monday, February 13, 2012 5:31 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

great piece of music, superb talent and skills. marvelous purity-- 2 voices, harmony, one guitar. No fireworks, no backup dancers, no costumes, nothing that would make a rock video.

You might also try Dylan and Johnny Cash's Girl From the North Country, off the Nashville Skyline album, Dylan at his high, nasal, whiney best and Johnny sounding like he's grinding rocks. Based on the same original song.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 5:31 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Almost everything S&G (not NEARLY so much, in my opinion, since Simon went on his own). Totally Shiny, especially both specifically mentioned.

Thanx for the lyrics; I've often wondered what many of them are which I couldn't make out. Gives the song a whole new meaning!

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Monday, February 13, 2012 9:30 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
What, if anything, would cause you to stand up, ante your very life, to protect ?

My life isn't mine to give away. I have a child who will probably never be fully functional, and it's my duty to protect her and prepare her as long as I live... which will hopefully be a long, long time.

But if I were assured that she would be well-cared for, then that is truly a different train of thought, and one worth some time to think about.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 1:37 PM

S&G: The Boxer

I have not heard of Claes. You don't say if she was cyborged, brainwashed and conditioned as
a small child, a teen, or an adult. Successfully conditioning a human being has much to do with
their age.

Quote FREMDFIRMA: "What, if anything, would cause you to stand up, ante your very life, to protect ?"
"THEN think about what *matters* to you, and why."

I'd not ante up my life to protect/keep my home, my things.
I am not close to anyone. I own very little.
What remains, what matters is my own Mind.
Why? Because I've worked real hard to make it mine and to make it better.

When my 2-years-older sis lost her mind, "they" doped up what was left of it.
She couldn't get up to do anything; she starved til she died. I've wondered
why her Dr. let it happen that way, since she was a steady paycheck for him.

My heart Dr. is like that. He doesn't want me healthy. He wants me as a
paycheck. My GP sees me regularly, but does not treat my ills.
You understand.

Oneself is all one really has.

"All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest" ~Paul Simon

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Monday, February 13, 2012 3:41 PM

Good answer, Siggy.
Most of us, whether we realize it or not, have people that need us - and due to my method of expanded, overlapping monkeyspheres that kinda includes a lotta people...
(In fact, the max-sphere, in a gestalt sense, includes all life on this dirtball after a fashion)

But I have long since made my peace with the fact that I won't be around forever, and will probably go out in some stupid and unexpected fashion, and as such have spread the torch around so as to leave a legacy to what I believe in rather than one to arrogance, if I fall others will pick up the slack, sure.

Because of that I'll generally stand-to on a variety of things, but mostly avoiding direct confrontation, save in the rare case that such personal intervention stands a real chance of changing matters for the better whatever personally happens to me - in those cases, I see it as a moral duty.

OONJERAH - all of the victims of the SWA are children, almost exclusively ones in the process of dying or worse, which is how they try to morally justify it to themselves...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunslinger_Girl
Fair warning, if you intend to read/watch that, stock up on kleenexes, it's seriously tragic.

And yes, you make a good point - knowledge, friendship, who you are, these are things that cannot be taken from you without outright murder or the psychic equivalent thereof, like physical things can, and I believe that with that sentiment you do truly understand why I never wanted their "help" to become what society would have me be, instead of who I was, why I fought it tooth and claw.

Also, it seems too many docs are like that, even the one I use for scratch and dent work cause he's close and doesn't ask too many questions about how it happened, is in with Big Pharma since they pay for his golf junkets - seriously, since when does a patient with a sprained knee and rock steady normal/low blood pressure require a cholesteral screening ?
I just blow him off when he writes those stupid reccomendations.

And here's a thought for you to chew on in the meantime, which I think you'll appreciate.
Who you are - is WHAT YOU DO.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, February 13, 2012 6:26 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

I do like S and G, don't get me wrong, I just prefer other versions of the song that are more ... how I roll. :) But yes, they're very talented and brought the song to the attention of the masses.

Frem, in the end for me its all about relationships, my relationship with Christ/family/friends/the people I help look after. That's what matters in the end when everything else is stripped away. Life's too short for ifs and maybes. After that I'd say the most important thing to me is being able to persue the things I care about, in various spheres, if I can't pursue what I care about then I'm not myself.

What matters most to you Frem? We know what your principles are, what causes you stand for, but when its all stripped away what is the most important thing to you?

Oonjerah, I'll go beat the rut out of the people who didn't look after your sister right for you. How long ago was this?

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, February 13, 2012 7:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:

Oonjerah, I'll go beat the rut out of the people who didn't look after your sister right for you. How long ago was this?

She died 14 March 2009, Fair Oaks, Sacramento, CA. She was 68. Perhaps I could find out which hospital and maybe even her Dr.'s name.
Alzheimer's does run in my family; but she got it so young in my view.

There is one thing, tho. I think when she got so bad off, so nuts, so confused from moment to moment, that she would much prefer to escape,
to "get off the ride," as she called it.

It was a wake-up call for me. Stay in my home as long as I possibly can. Take better care of myself.

"All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest" ~Paul Simon

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Monday, February 13, 2012 7:08 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

That makes you 69 or there abouts. I can't really go beat anyone up for you. Many people do live a while longer with it though, so it sounds like the situation was handled poorly. Were you two close? I'm sorry for your loss of her.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 9:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
What matters most to you Frem? We know what your principles are, what causes you stand for, but when its all stripped away what is the most important thing to you?

A future for our children comprised of something beyond the legacy of our failures, one that isn't a nightmare, doesn't serve them naught but a cup of bitter pain.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 9:21 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Just as an aside, I'll answer Frem's "What, if anything, would cause you to stand up, ante your very life, to protect?" That one's easy for me, and I've said it before. If giving up my life would result in all humans ceasing to exist--not being killed, just not BEING--I would do so gladly. I think this planet would be better without us, and I don't care that neither I nor any other human would be here to see or enjoy it.

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 4:42 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Interesting Niki, I don't think I've ever heard that one before.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:32 PM

If one loves life, animals and nature, Niki's purpose makes sense.
Or as Younger Sis often reminds me, WE have been the worst possible stewards that God could have put here.
And I believe He will let us reap what we have sown.

"All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest" ~Paul Simon

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 7:38 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

A Oonjerah a chara, you should read and watch On The Beach if you haven't already. I prefer the book but the movie is good too.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, February 14, 2012 9:20 PM

I saw On the Beach in 1959 starring Gregory Peck & Ava Gardner. I recall only the basic plot.
I imagine the new one is different, tho on IMDb, plot looks the same.
I assume it is retro, set in '59, before the space program was solid. If it happened now, an effort would
be made for a few to survive in space. In some devastation stories, underground becomes a new home.

"All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest" ~Paul Simon

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Wednesday, February 15, 2012 3:57 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Just as an aside, I'll answer Frem's "What, if anything, would cause you to stand up, ante your very life, to protect?" That one's easy for me, and I've said it before. If giving up my life would result in all humans ceasing to exist--not being killed, just not BEING--I would do so gladly. I think this planet would be better without us, and I don't care that neither I nor any other human would be here to see or enjoy it.

Well Gee. Thanks for making that decision for the rest of us.

ETA: Just so we're clear, that's sarcasm.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:14 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Riona, I thought we had a back-and-forth on that one a while ago. Maybe it was someone else; whoever it was had a LOT to say about my belief, none of it positive.

And yes, it's mostly because I think we HAVE been horrible stewards, and what's left of the world could still (I believe) repair itself if we weren't here. Given much longer, I'm not so sure. As to us reaping what we've sown, unfortunately so will the rest of this pretty blue marble...

Thank you, Geezer. I would have misunderstood. Of course it's irrelevant, since I'd never get the chance...but watch out for magic lamps...

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Wednesday, February 15, 2012 10:15 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Of course I think Niki's idea is revolting, that she thinks she is that special that she should be able to decide for the rest of us whether we live or die, but its not like it will ever happen so we don't have to worry about it.

Oon, I haven't seen the Gregory Peck version, I saw the newer version, but felt the book was more poignant, though the movie was certainly interesting. Its the other side of the post apocolyptic saga, the ending side, where it all just ... ... ... ends.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, February 16, 2012 7:52 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Gee, thanx. I thought it was you who ragged on me before. When did I say I was choosing for everyone? It's a "wish"...you know, like wishing you had a million dollars, even tho' you know you never will. It has nothing whatsoever to do with reality or choosing for anyone else, and in no way reflects that I think I'm "special". Hell, if I thought I was deserving of more than others, I'd wish everyone else would disappear and I'd be left to enjoy the world that would remain. Can you possibly see the difference, or is your revulsion so blind that you can't?

I don't think I'm special. I leave my footprint and I know it, however much I may try to minimize it. I'm human like everyone else, so I wouldn't want any more right to the earth than anyone else. If you don't think we've been lousy stewards of the earth and have fucked it up, quite possibly irreversibly, then there's obviously nothing to discuss.

As for who thinks they're special, perhaps it's you for judging my willingness to die as if it were a personal attack on you rather than just a wish that earth could have a chance to survive our destructiveness. You think I WANT to die? The question was what do you treasure so much that you'd die to save it. That's my answer, and thank you for judging it as revolting and self-centered.

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Thursday, February 16, 2012 11:42 AM

Quote Niki2: "just a wish that earth could have a chance to survive our destructiveness. You think I WANT to die?
The question was what do you treasure so much that you'd die to save it. That's my answer, and thank you for
judging it as revolting and self-centered."

It's not easier, but wouldn't it be better to put all the humans in zoos, and have the animals in charge?
(See Planet of the Apes, 1968, Charlton Heston)

Just so we're clear, that's sarcasm. (Or is it?)

I still see Niki's point. We have always behaved as if Humans are the only ones who count. That the survival of
a species is as nothing compared to a man's next paycheck. We remain short-sighted as well as thick. The World
is more important than the selfish human species.

"All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest" ~Paul Simon

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Thursday, February 16, 2012 1:53 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

Niki, I just think that your wish being granted would have a bigger effect on humanity than winning a million dollars and that its the most far reaching wish I've ever heard of and it wouldn't be fair. But I see that its something that is apparently important to you and since it won't ever happen the rest of humanity doesn't need to worry about being involuntarily extinguished by you. I do agree that people haven't treated the earth well at all and that if we don't change things we, and the earth, will all be humped.

Oonjerah, where did you get your name, its so cool.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, February 16, 2012 6:06 PM

Quote Rionaeire: "Oonjerah, where did you get your name, its so cool."

More than you want to know:
1985, had an Apple ///, under emulation, it played Apple II games, such as Ultima 1 and Wizardy.
RPGs = Role Playing Games. You'd make a buncha characters and go kill monsters. One could name their
characters David or Mary, but what fun is that? I got addicted to RPGs and I loved to make up names.
I enjoyed what each syllable or combination of them made me think or feel.
Now, for example, Rionaeire reminds me of Ireland.

On the other forum, I was Jerah. But I don't like it anymore, so I "Oon"ed it.

"All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest" ~Paul Simon

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Sunday, February 19, 2012 7:08 PM