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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Well, I do the same things, quotes, links, in context, but that's NOT what I was asking.

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Anthony - There was no logical fallacy in my response. I was dealing directly, literally, and to the point of the issue. You , inexplicably, decided to go off on some ridiculous tangent.

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Both sides engage in distortion, misquoting, that's not what I'm talking about though.

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I'm talking real world issues here, actual political polices, and not getting caught up in the minutia of the theoretical.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:


http://www.politicalcompass.org/test


Hello,

I just looked into the quiz idea. I took this quiz and liked that it scores results on two axis (axes?)

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Originally posted by m52nickerson:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Well, I do the same things, quotes, links, in context, but that's NOT what I was asking.

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You posts links, and quotes. Sometimes they are in context, often they are not or you simply think they mean something different then they do and you try to use them to support arguments or views they simply don't.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Originally posted by Storymark:

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:


http://www.politicalcompass.org/test


Hello,

I just looked into the quiz idea. I took this quiz and liked that it scores results on two axis (axes?)

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A decent quiz. Here was my result:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-6.00&soc=-3.23

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Originally posted by Storymark:
Nail on the head.

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They are exactly as I state them to be,

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:

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They are exactly as I state them to be,

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Except when they are distortions and misquotes, which are things not worth discussing in the arena of big picture politics.

--Anthony

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Take things out of context much?

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
"We've got to make sure that every young person in America is prepared for college and then can afford to go to college."- B.Obama. Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee dinner in Minneapolis, Minn., on Oct. 23, 2010


Citations like that ?

The bigger issue is, does every young adult NEED to go to college ? Seems clear that if you're talking about preparing for college and making it affordable, then you're talking about every, or nearly every child , going to college.

PolitiFact cited 18 times that Obama made references to this topic, and IN THEIR OPINION, Santorum was wrong. Wrong because Obama didn't say the exact words in the exact order Santorum claimed they were said, yet the underlying message was clear. PolitiFact says the claim by Santorum is false, I say it has merit.


Again, how is this any different than what I do ?

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I believe every law abiding American citizen should have the opportunity to purchase a weapon for their defense. I believe that every American should be able to afford to purchase such a weapon.

Which of course means that every American must be forced to purchase a weapon.

In Santorum/Auraptor logic land.

--Anthony

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
So I would like to challenge you to a Libertarian duel. Let's both take an online political-compass type test, and aim for 100% Libertarian - and whoever gets closest understands Libertarianism best. Deal?


VERY interesting proposal.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Oh, and don't forget to call me stupid. Can't omit that one.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

2nd, 3rd time ( lost count, doesn't matter ) I'm going to say this.

I was comparing what I do with Niki, not Santorum.

Good grief.




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

Seriously, you're going to whinge about name-calling now, when you're among the worst here at doing just that?

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Originally posted by Storymark:

Its just that the rest of us feel there is far more in common with you and Santorum. Your agreement is not required.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:


http://www.politicalcompass.org/test


Hello,

I just looked into the quiz idea. I took this quiz and liked that it scores results on two axis (axes?)

My results were as follows:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=0.75&soc=-6
.15

(In case the image doesn't work, I have the actual values below.)

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 0.75 (Positive values are more 'right wing' negative are more 'left wing')
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.15 (Positive values are more 'authoritarian,' negative are more 'libertarian.')

I remember taking a similar test years ago and scoring much further right, which indicates to me that my conversations and arguments on this forum have actually borne fruit in the form of evolving ideas. Thank you, posters of Firefly RWED.

It's important to note that if the test is to have any value about revealing aspects of self, you should not go into the test with an agenda to prove something. Just think about the questions and see how you feel. They are not ON/OFF questions, and do consider intensity of feeling to some degree, which is one reason this test seemed good to me.

--Anthony

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"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Anthony - We're talking politics, right ?



Both sides engage in distortion, misquoting, that's not what I'm talking about though.

Santorum's comments were directed toward Obama's policies, in the context of what Obama wants to do, the direction he wants to take the country, and the manner by which he wants to achieve his goals.

Obama , a Democrat, crafts his policies in such a way that it'll favor the teacher's unions, and getting more people addicted to , tied to, use to looking to the govt for assistance , in all areas. From food stamps, healthcare to getting an education.

I'm talking real world issues here, actual political polices, and not getting caught up in the minutia of the theoretical. Nothing against the latter, mind you, but we're talking apples and Snozzberries.

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Originally posted by Storymark:

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:


http://www.politicalcompass.org/test


Hello,

I just looked into the quiz idea. I took this quiz and liked that it scores results on two axis (axes?)

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A decent quiz. Here was my result:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-6.00&soc=-3.23

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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I'm most definitely not a libertarian.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by Storymark:

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:


http://www.politicalcompass.org/test


Hello,

I just looked into the quiz idea. I took this quiz and liked that it scores results on two axis (axes?)

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A decent quiz. Here was my result:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-6.00&soc=-3.23

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Mine:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-6.75&soc=-9.08

I've mellowed! Last time I took it, I was FAR more left-leaning - like, as far left as the graph allowed, and one notch from the bottom on the libertarian scale.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I think people don't like hearing what you have to say, Mr. Raptor, but I'm not sure I equate that with not wanting to hear the truth.

Actually, I think the distortion/misquote thing has opened my eyes to a lot of your thinking and debate technique. With the way you feel about such things, I can see that your source selection would be affected. If a source conveys an idea that is 'True' to you, you would feel free to use it, even if it might be incorrect in some particular irrelevancy of 'Fact.'

Thus: Truth > Fact, to your line of thinking.

This is why Santorum can say things that are factually incorrect, but still be True.
It follows that you could say things that are factually incorrect in some particular, but you would still regard them as 'True' if they conveyed the True idea, philosophy, or conclusion.

Probably all human beings are subject to this to some degree. However, most people recognize this as an error once they are made aware of it, or have it pointed out to them.

I do not think this is the case for you. I believe in your case, as long as a bit of data or information leads to the 'Truth' its Factual content is utterly irrelevant.

The problem, of course, stems from the fact that other people do not use the process of Truth > Fact. Other people believe that Facts are the route to Truth, and perhaps their reasoning is more along the lines of Truth = Fact. Thus, when Facts prove to be incorrect, they naturally question the Truth of something.

A compromise position of self-indulgence probably exists where Facts are carefully selected to convey a perceived Truth, and this is virtually a universal debate technique. I'm positive I've been guilty of this myself. Still, I like to think that when Facts are proven to be wrong, I question my Truths.

This all makes a great deal of sense, and relates to the 'Broken Thinking' concept I raised earlier.

As long as Truth > Fact to you, your thinking processes will always seem alien and wrong to the rest of us, and people will be inclined to exclude things you proclaim as 'Facts' to support your 'Truth.' This is also why no amount of 'Facts' can ever prove your 'Truth' to be Untrue. When put against Truth, the Facts are irrelevant.

A universal failing applied by you as an ideal.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


"whinge"

I can't recall having even seen that word before. I didn't know you were British.

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Originally posted by RionaEire:
This thread is on fiya, its apparently the place to be on a Tue. night and we're all here at the same time, its like a chat room!

I wish saying "a stor" and "slan leat" and "go raibh maith agat" made me Irish, I'll drink to that.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -6.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.87

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by Storymark:

Its just that the rest of us feel there is far more in common with you and Santorum. Your agreement is not required.

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What the rest of you feel and what actually happens aren't always similar.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
ETA: Proof Rappy doesn't pay attention given how often I use that particular word to describe the conduct of the rightwingnuts when they don't get their way, bout what, maybe twice a day ?

-F

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Originally posted by Storymark:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by Storymark:

Its just that the rest of us feel there is far more in common with you and Santorum. Your agreement is not required.

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What the rest of you feel and what actually happens aren't always similar.

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That's okay, Rappy. We know you don't get it

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And what's with the " 100% Libertarian " remark ?

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Originally posted by RionaEire:
Wow PN, which college are you going to?

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