REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

USAF was gonna nuke the Moon-- not PN

POSTED BY: NEWOLDBROWNCOAT
UPDATED: Saturday, December 1, 2012 10:38
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Wednesday, November 28, 2012 5:29 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/11/28/u-s-had-plans-to-nuke-the-moo
n/?hpt=hp_c1


This was in 1958-59, when the Russkis had put a man in orbit, and the US was looking kinda lame.

It was a big PR stunt-- " Look how advanced we are, we bombed the Moon. Take that, Reds!"

Wouldn'ta done any real damage, busted it up or knocked it outta orbit, just a big flash and a lot of radioactive contamination.

Fortunately, wiser heads prevailed and the idea got stuffed away in the Pentagon's dead paperwork warehouse, right next to Indiana Jones' Ark of the Covenant.

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Wednesday, November 28, 2012 5:56 PM

BYTEMITE


Blowing up the moon to spite the tides.

The Pentagon had a lot of weird crap in the 50s and 60s, and WAY too much time on their hands.

River's story is partially based in reality. Just so you know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_Un
ited_States#U.S._government_research

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Wednesday, November 28, 2012 6:00 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

It's not nearly the oddist or craziest thing we considered or began to develop during the Cold War.

ETA: I see Byte already commented on that.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Wednesday, November 28, 2012 6:12 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

It's not nearly the oddist or craziest thing we considered or began to develop during the Cold War.

ETA: I see Byte already commented on that.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz



One of the funniest books I have ever read is a humorous sci-fi (alternate universe, sort of) novel called Steam Bird. It's about a nuclear powered, steam driven AIRPLANE. Funniest part, even funnier than some of the jokes, ironic scenes, and political satire, is that the author ACTUALLY WORKED on the project to design and build one in the late '50's.

That one also got shelved by cooler, wiser heads, as the known unknown risks greatly outweighed the benefits.

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Wednesday, November 28, 2012 6:16 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

It's not nearly the oddist or craziest thing we considered or began to develop during the Cold War.

ETA: I see Byte already commented on that.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz



One of the funniest books I have ever read is a humorous sci-fi (alternate universe, sort of) novel called Steam Bird. It's about a nuclear powered, steam driven AIRPLANE. Funniest part, even funnier than some of the jokes, ironic scenes, and political satire, is that the author ACTUALLY WORKED on the project to design and build one in the late '50's.

That one also got shelved by cooler, wiser heads, as the known unknown risks greatly outweighed the benefits.



Hello,

The scary thing about that one is that much of it was actually built and tested.

Check out this wikipedia article on Nuclear Aircraft:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_aircraft

ETA: I personally believe it was the advent of reliable intercontinental missiles, and not cooler heads, that caused the projects to be discontinued. There were more efficient ways of delivering a nuclear payload.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Wednesday, November 28, 2012 7:56 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:

Check out this wikipedia article on Nuclear Aircraft:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_aircraft





Thanx for the link. I didn't know much about the actual history.

They frequently mention the B-36 bomber-- it was a monster, a giant, had 10 engines, 6 jet and 4 pusher ( backwards mounted ) prop. It had to be that big because nukes back then ( '50's, remember) were so big and heavy, nothing else could carry them very far airborne. Hadda have a lot of power and payload, and was designed to stay up there and fly long distances non-stop.

I actually doubt, back to the original subject, that any missile or rocket had enough power to lift a '50's nuke to the moon.

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Wednesday, November 28, 2012 7:59 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Mind experiments: If any of them are touched as a result and need a good safe place to live and be looked after we'd take them at my household that I have the goal of running someday. We all need goals and that is mine, to have a group home (an Establishment). I've written my manifesto and all, it would be the best in town at least. Byte has read my manifesto and of course I've discussed it at length with her. She has confidence in me beyond what is realistic, but I need someone to believe in me and my desires for the world. It won't happen though unless I can find someone to help me run it.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, November 29, 2012 1:17 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



I've often wondered what would be the world reaction to seeing a fair sized meteor impact on the moon.

Not enough to split it or cause any great damage, but a real time reminder to us all of how violent space can be. Jupiter has been struck with Mt Everest sized meteors / comets, twice, just with in the past 20 years. Either one of those impacts would have ended our time on Earth, had it hit us.

Muslims think the moon already has been split.

We were along with God's Messenger at Mina, that moon was split up into two. One of its parts was behind the mountain and the other one was on this side of the mountain. God's Messenger said to us: Bear witness to this 039:6725

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_of_the_moon#The_Qur.27an_and_Is
lamic_tradition



" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, November 29, 2012 4:04 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Muslims think the moon already has been split.


That just makes it easier for cows to jump over it. (camels, goats, and wives too)


Quote:

Jupiter has been struck with Mt Everest sized meteors / comets, twice, just with in the past 20 years. Either one of those impacts would have ended our time on Earth, had it hit us.

History Channel had a show about that last week. Said that Jupiter's immense mass creates a gravity field more than a million times that of Earth; literally pulls space objects out of their nearby orbits causing frequent impacts.










"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic."

Benjamin Franklin

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Thursday, November 29, 2012 4:43 AM

BYTEMITE


That's how it's translated, but it looks to me they less mean "split" and more mean "obscured" by a mountain in front of the moon. But, the symbolism there is interesting. The moon is a big deal in Islam.

Prior to the rise of the Judeo-Christian religion and Islam, regionally there were a lot of sun and moon worshipers. In some cases, such as with Canaanites and Semites and proto-Jews, the moon god was the top of their pantheon.

There were many names for the moon god: Sin, which lends its name to Mount Sinai, a Jewish holy place, as well as a borrowed word for acts that lead to eternal damnation in Christianity, Elel, El... Many of these moon gods were known for wearing bull's horns, as representative of the crescent phase of the moon. That symbolism still exists in modern Islam - it's why their holy symbol is a crescent moon and a star.

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Thursday, November 29, 2012 5:07 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
They frequently mention the B-36 bomber-- it was a monster, a giant, had 10 engines, 6 jet and 4 pusher ( backwards mounted ) prop. It had to be that big because nukes back then ( '50's, remember) were so big and heavy, nothing else could carry them very far airborne. Hadda have a lot of power and payload, and was designed to stay up there and fly long distances non-stop.


Six Turnin, Four Burnin!
Of course, rare that it was this was actually true....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_B-36

As for crackbrained lunacy - you'd have to go far and wide to find ANYTHING worse than the friggin SLAM.
http://www.merkle.com/pluto/pluto.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersonic_Low_Altitude_Missile
Quote:

The use of a nuclear engine in the airframe promised to give the missile staggering and unprecedented low-altitude range, estimated to be roughly 113,000 miles (182,000 km) (over four and a half times the equatorial circumference of the earth). The engine also acted as a secondary weapon for the missile: direct neutron radiation from the virtually unshielded reactor would sicken, injure, and/or kill living things beneath the flight path; the stream of fallout left in its wake would poison enemy territory; and its strategically selected crash site would receive intense radioactive contamination. In addition, the sonic waves given off by its passage would damage ground installations.

This, nuking the moon and wackjobbery like Plowshare was mostly Eddie Tellers influence, the guy was an out-and-out mad scientist of the very WORST stripe, seriously.

-Frem

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Saturday, December 1, 2012 7:01 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Mr. Frem,
I beg yer pardon, I got the engine numbers backwards. Easy to do with the B-36, some of 'em was facin' the wrong way!

Beyond that, I agree. The B-36 was real, some of 'em flew for a while, and was replaced by the B-47 and then B-52, which is still flyin', 'cuz nobody has been able to come up with a viable replacement. And S-L-A-M does sound like a REALLY BAD idea, much like that nuclear powered, steam driven airplane. Steam Bird ( the book ) makes many of the same objections that your source does.

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Saturday, December 1, 2012 10:38 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Well, the B-36 was prettymuch a real life kitbash.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitbashing
A total hackjob, built as a stopgap measure till we could design something better, a lot of our cold war aircraft were like that.

I've always had a sneaking fondness for the ThunderTHUD(F-105) though, it was the only plane we designed to go head-on-toe-to-toe with both opposing air defenses on the ground, enemy aircraft and logistic/ground targets all at once, and it was a giant hulking beast of a thing with an onboard arsenal which defied belief.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F105
Of course, it was outperformed by specialist aircraft in each role, and suffered high losses cause of the nature of thier mission set (get in, stay in, and stomp on them till you run out of ammo, gas, or airplane) but for pure boot-to-ass operation, welll....
Quote:

One F-105F is unofficially credited with downing three MiGs—one by air-to-air missile, the second by cannon fire and the third by jettisoning the centerline rack full of bombs directly into the path of a surprised MiG.

I would not have wanted to be THAT MiG pilot!

Of course, her spiritual successor is the A-10 Warthog, which continues that fine and brutal tradition, and unlike most combat aircraft is actually cost-effective.

The local air museum had an F-105, but a couple years ago it was damaged beyond recovery in a fire, which saddened me cause it was one of my favorites - they still got a fully functional B-17 though!

-F

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