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Rapes tend to be about power.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

Understood, Anthony. 10% of 300 million is not most, but it is still 30 million, which is a lot.

In any case, how many of the survivors do you think, if they had the option that night to really hurt their attacker, they would have done it, even if it meant they might die?

Once again, I suspect many of them would.

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Hello,

In my experience, you'd do anything to escape, to get away, to get safe. The desire is one to survive and to do so intact if possible.

The desire to die comes later. When it's all over.

And yeah, if you can get safe by killing someone, that's good.

But causing pain in exchange for your life is not likely on your mind when trying to escape such an attack. The pain's only value at that point would be if it helps you get away.

In my experience.

But perhaps once so abused, the mind can be twisted so that revenge is more important than escape. And then maybe the next abuser... maybe you'd be willing to die just to hurt them.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Shouldn't everyone get to live the way they want to?"

Was that in opposition or support? Personally, I think if a community of women - or men - who prefer to live together exclusively were to be formed, I think it would be exactly that, everyone getting to live the way they want.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Organic rapes are crimes of passion, but using an object, to me that seems to be about shaming a person. It's two different things. You can't cut down on the object rape, but you probably would cut down on organic rape.

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If only because, imagine a guy holding a woman at knife or gun point, ordering her to remove her protection. Says she says no, because maybe she's like me and thinks the rape that would come after that would be worse than death.

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Three possibilities remain for the man: kill the woman and then be forced to give up because the woman would not remove the contraption, remove the contraption himself while she's dead, or give up. And the most likely option there is: he gives up, because what's the fun for him raping a dead chick? He doesn't get the power rush of watching her be afraid, or the power rush of forcing her to submit to him.

Once the girl has protection like that, all a would be rapist has left is a bluff.

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Good god, Byte, this guff is straight out of a trashy novel. Rape at gun point? The VAAAAAAST majority of rape does not involve any such weapon. Christ, most rapes are perpetrated by men known to the victim. Byte, you are seriously talking fantasyland here.

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People, please, don't talk about rape as if you know what the heck you're talking about unless you know what the heck you're talking about. It's insulting to those of us who have actually lived through the experience.

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You are simply clueless on the subject of rape.

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I'm sorry Anthony.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:

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You are simply clueless on the subject of rape.

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Hello,

Well if so, thank God. And I don't think only rape victims are entitled to opinions.

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:

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You are simply clueless on the subject of rape.

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Hello,

Well if so, thank God. And I don't think only rape victims are entitled to opinions.

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Neither do I. There's a lot of room for opinion before you get to the pornographic nonsense about inserts and "organic rape."

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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People, please, don't talk about rape as if you know what the heck you're talking about unless you know what the heck you're talking about. It's insulting to those of us who have actually lived through the experience.

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FUUUUUUUUCK YOUUUUUUU

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

I honestly can understand a man - especially a young man full of testosterone - being significantly driven by sexual urges. I can see one being at the point where he really truly would have a difficult time stopping.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
You're no better than the people who did that to you, and that guy who did that to me!

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ACTUALLY, I asked EVERYONE, not just you, because several folk were speculating on the effects of a vaginally incertd weapon (VIW)--to please not talk about shit they don't know about as if they did.

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Okay, this is gonna drift from topic, and might run long, but imma expound at length about it cause it revolves around a recent rethinking which I believe answers the question of why the abused kid survival rate is so drastically skewed in regards to gender...

See, humans are biologically hardwired with certain predispositions, and that for you Anthony, a lot of them are survival-related, some perhaps outdated by our society, and some most certainly not, which becomes problematic, sure.

What drives a lot of aberrant behavior in childhood is IMHO the mixed messages that children recieve when what they are being "taught", intentionally or otherwise, comes into conflict with those natural impulses - for example it is the NATURE of humans to share and cooperate, but when one is TAUGHT to be selfish and exploit/abuse/mislead others, it creates all kind of mental static that can manifest as "behavioral problems"... first of this, or usually the first clash, is being taught to lie.

Children have both an inherent honesty, and do *NOT* have the "filters" we have on worldview cause they've not developed them - they actually see the sick homeless guy who never makes it past your consciousness, they see the "wrong" in situations we've long trained ourselves to accept as a matter of course, another place trying to reconcile opposing values does them harm - for the first person a child is taught to lie to, is themself.

The human subconscious has defenses against that, whether they be intentional or not I couldn't say, but by default nature usually wins that contest, proof of that lies in how any sufficient deception will not hold up over time, with extraordinarily rare exceptions they *will* give themselves away no matter how skilled they are - it takes an amazing amount of abuse and conditioning to make a human being inherently dishonest, and the resultant psychological damage usually leaves them ineffective at it.

Anyhows, for some, meditation is kind of like tuning in to listen to those impulses suppressed by social conditioning, seeking the voice of the lost and broken child within - or reaching deeper, and finding something.... darker.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_%28psychology%29
We all have the beast within, it's directly related to the HPA axis of the brain and the fight/freeze/flight instinct, those in tune with it can actually USE this to their advantage, and some military training/conditioning is a kind of halfassed, assbackwards attempt to teach this.


Which, brings me to why the gender gap in abuse survival.
See, the earlier you start screwing up a kids brain, the harder it becomes to fix, and if the damage gets done during critical developmental periods, barring early intervention it's all but permanent.
Beyond that, early damage is the hardest also cause it's festered and begun to calcify, become part of the personality itself, and that's a nightmare to deal with when it happens cause you're talking about the very foundation of WHO THEY ARE...
(And yes, I am bloody well aware this is why I will NEVER voluntarily disarm, ever.)

Which brings up gender roles and concepts in relation to when and how the damage is done, you see.
Boys we screw up right off the bat, teach them violence, might-makes-right, emotional suppression, cut them off from coping skills, discourage cooperation and encourage an often ruthless competitive streak which DOES have its Shadow counterpart down there as a secondary drive related to survival OUTSIDE of a group setting - it's not a primary drive, but if you suppress the primary drives, there are secondaries which take over, also a source of mental static and confusion with emotional overtones which causes acting out, a coping mechanism shut down by social pressure as soon as it even forms.

Factually, you do NOT "toughen up" kid by mistreating them, but by treating them with mercy and kindness - those who have NOT been mistreated have more coping skills and tools, and are far less likely to resort to violence, but of course self-perpetuating social myths are hard to break when the victims of them sell them down the line in the cycle of abuse.

Conversely, we don't generally jump right into crushing the personhood of girls, they're EXPECTED to have emotional outbursts, to feel, to cooperate, to care - we ALLOW them to be who they are.
Now there's the rare exception, particularly some pyscho tigermom wannabe shoving their girl at talent contests and whatnot, but overall we don't get into REALLY trashing the humanity of girls till we start teaching them greed, jealousy and materialism, which usually comes AFTER the critical developmental stages.

The difference here is legion - picture a slab of concrete.
Now, picture that concrete with some rebar tacked onto the outside - not so hard to remove, yes?
Now, picture that concrete with the rebar having been in there when it was poured - try getting THAT out, ehe ?
http://www.childtrauma.org/index.php/articles/articles-for-professiona
ls
Bunch of stuff here, heavy reading and you'll need a PDF reader, but it forms the original background for what we're now calling the Neurosequential Model.
http://www.childtrauma.org/index.php/articles/cta-neurosequential-mode
l

Basically, the earlier you screw em up, the worse off they are, and the harder it is to fix.
But if they have passed most of the critical development periods and have a more solid personhood in place already they have some level of defense and the mistreatment is not internalized, nor fully integrated.
And THAT, is what has been skewing abuse survival rates by gender, I do believe.

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Yeah, and I didn't make up that fucking night at the fucking train station EITHER HK. Even if it didn't end as bad as it ends for some women..

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
HKC - this seems to be a very important topic for you. I'm on and off the board really erratically so I may have missed something most already know. And I really am not looking for an explanation for things I'm clueless about. I just want to say I think your voice is a valuable one that I really want to hear. That's all.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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ACTUALLY, I asked EVERYONE, not just you, because several folk were speculating on the effects of a vaginally incertd weapon (VIW)--to please not talk about shit they don't know about as if they did.

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Oh? You clearly think I don't know what I'm talking about, and you clearly think I shouldn't talk about shit I don't know about.

WHAT THE FUCK ELSE DOES THAT MEAN BUT SHUT UP?

Yes, DEAR, I'll shut up and get back in the KITCHEN! Oh yes, I'll stop talking about my silly grandstanding morbid fascination because I don't know ANYTHING about it. It's my very own kind of pornography, you know!

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Anyway, back to the original subject of the thread: serial killers, mass murderers and rapists all have something in common psychologically. They all rehearse and fantasize their crimes well in advance, sometimes for years, before actually carrying them out. Any man who rapes has wanted to rape for a very long time before he goes through with it, finally. Same with serial killers and child molesters. There's got to be a reason they have these fantasies.

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Originally posted by HKCavalier:

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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ACTUALLY, I asked EVERYONE, not just you, because several folk were speculating on the effects of a vaginally incertd weapon (VIW)--to please not talk about shit they don't know about as if they did.

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Oh? You clearly think I don't know what I'm talking about, and you clearly think I shouldn't talk about shit I don't know about.

WHAT THE FUCK ELSE DOES THAT MEAN BUT SHUT UP?

Yes, DEAR, I'll shut up and get back in the KITCHEN! Oh yes, I'll stop talking about my silly grandstanding morbid fascination because I don't know ANYTHING about it. It's my very own kind of pornography, you know!

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No, Byte, as I said in the comments you JUST quoted: I don't want you to talk about it "AS IF" you know what you're talking about when you don't. There are lots of ways to talk about something you're not an authority on, without pretending that you are.

Byte, think. After all these years of you accusing me of wanting you to shut up, don't you think that if it were remotely true I would have admitted it by now??? That your constant accusations would have pushed me to blurt, "Oh my god, would you please shut up!" or something? Or somebody besides you would have accused me of wanting you to shut up?

And besides, isn't telling someone to shut up on the internet just about the most ineffectual thing a person could possibly do? Do you seriously think I'm that petty and foolish?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Either what I have to say, however unflattering it is to you, has meaning to you, has some kernal of truth that you're wrestling with

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
TONY- BYTE "goes off" on people as if she were the only one deserving of respect. And if people try to make nice to her over HER outburst, she gets self-contradictory No! I want THIS!.... No, I DON'T want THIS!. IMHO dealing with Byte while she is in one of those moods is counterproductive, and defending her bad behavior is bad for her too. But that's just me; your mileage may vary.

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