What is the best, and worst things people have said about you here? Are they true? by RionaEire

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Because every human being actually deserves forgiveness.

They don't deserve forgiveness if they are still doing it. I'm still paying taxes.

Quote:

I don't know if it's at all fruitful to talk to you like this.

I appreciate the effort. Thanks. :)

Quote:
Is making enemies of good folks over the internet a useful or necessary passtime? Is inflamatory language really the best way to make people think???

My first foray into trolling. ;) Though I meant every word I said, so it wasn't really trolling.

Quote:

If voting for someone to keep a worse person from gaining power makes someone feel safer then why shouldn't they?

Sigh.

Quote:
But there are some people in Iraq who have indeed benefitted from our government's intervention over there. ...You're saying you know better.

No, I am saying the majority of the people in Iraq are saying they aren't benefitting from our govt's intervention. I think if they say so, we should apologize.

-----

Disobedience is not an issue if obedience is not the goal.

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Saturday, March 23, 2013 7:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
The equivalent to what is being debated is the person standing in the crowd during a gang rape and SAYING AND DOING NOTHING, just walking away.

I am not advocating saying and doing nothing. I am advocating not participating in evil.

I didn't say that if I were Obama, I would just quit and walk away. I said if I were Obama, I would resign in PROTEST. Keyword: Protest. Then I would use my considerable connections and charisma to start a new party that can rally the public into pressuring the rest of government to stop doing evil.

That's not doing nothing. That is just not doing evil.

-----

Disobedience is not an issue if obedience is not the goal.

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Saturday, March 23, 2013 7:40 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Just as long as you continue to insist that people who vote for someone because they believe that person will do a better job than the other person are gang rapist, you have lost any and all credibility. There are many ways you could disagree with people voting; that one is asinine.

I don't feel the same way about you as Mal4 does; in my opinion, I HAVE to believe you are being deliberately naive and I'm sad to see someone refuse to use their intelligence. You know full well that there isn't a person alive who would deliberately run for office knowing that his power would be limited and he would have to resign immediately, you HAVE to, you cannot be that ignorant. It is the people who voted for Obama you are calling gang rapists, THAT is the issue. What Obama would/wouldn't, should/shouldn't do is not the point.

Calling people misinformed, ignorant, even stupid for voting for someone is one thing; calling them gang rapists is purely insane, period.

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Saturday, March 23, 2013 8:07 AM

OK, much of the response this morning has been from she-who-is-newly-on-my-scroll-on-by-list, so I don't know what's happened there (besides, judging by the responses, a stubborn insistence to stay stupid), but I have to say...

That PoS banner was pretty good, right? I made that! Never made an animated gif before. I'm very pleased with it.

Oh dear - Penguin11, if you're still around, sorry all this ugliness has come up. Really, I very very rarely do this, and have never gone so deeply or unapologetically into name-calling. I once called all of RWED a "cesspool" or somesuch when there were a whole bunch of these types of fights going on. Now I guess I've become one of the 'cess'. It's kind of inevitable if you stay around here long enough.

Anyway, I hope this spat hasn't scared you away!

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Saturday, March 23, 2013 8:34 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Mal4, you can always back up, return to your old ways and proceed. Heaven knows I've done it more times than anyone cares to remember, and in my opinion it is the only way to continue here. I have no desire to stay in the "ugly" territory like some, and in my case it always results from TRYING to stay above the fray, and slowly having my intentions eroded without my noticing them until it becomes glaringly clear.

This past week, RWED has become even worse than usual, and I for one am going to, once again, TRY to return to a semblance of civility I can live with. I hope you do the same; just personally, I don't like this new style.

I understand your pride, Mal4, I felt precisely the same a long time ago when I created MY first little "emoticon graphic", taking a quote from the Nixon tapes which everyone here has seen me use, or just type, many times:

(I was pretty proud of that guy at the time, too.)

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Saturday, March 23, 2013 8:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Because every human being actually deserves forgiveness.

They don't deserve forgiveness if they are still doing it. I'm still paying taxes.

Aw C,

See, that doesn't even count as forgiveness then. NOT forgiving people for stuff they no longer do is just childish. Of course you forgive them at that point. No, the only meaningful time to forgive another person is while they're at it--whatever it is. In the very midst of their disease. Or our own.

If we never forgave ourselves until we stopped doing the bad thing, absent an act of god, we'd never be free of it. It can be hard, but so many things worth doing, particularly when it comes to morality, are hard.

Somebody once said, "They know not what they do." Truer words were never spoken.

If you really knew paying taxes was wrong (deeply, objectively wrong like gang rape), you wouldn't do it. As much as you've browbeaten yourself into paying lip-service to your outrageous and unfair arguments about the evil of paying taxes, you still refuse to actually play by those rules because YOU ARE NOT CONVINCED.

Irony of ironies, you've actually forgiven yourself in your body already. Every time your body signs your tax return. Now all you gotta do is recognize that your body is right as summer rain, and your mind that's convinced that paying taxes = gang rape is full of shit and not really a good friend to you!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Saturday, March 23, 2013 9:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Mal4, you can always back up, return to your old ways and proceed. Heaven knows I've done it more times than anyone cares to remember, and in my opinion it is the only way to continue here. I have no desire to stay in the "ugly" territory like some, and in my case it always results from TRYING to stay above the fray, and slowly having my intentions eroded without my noticing them until it becomes glaringly clear.

Oh, no worries about continuing on in a better way. This thing is over! I've got a much better understanding of what pushes my buttons, and if anything like this comes up again, I'll get out sooner!

Sorry to have taken everyone along on my trip to the ugly place. I'm not taking it back though.

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Saturday, March 23, 2013 12:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
No, the only meaningful time to forgive another person is while they're at it--whatever it is. In the very midst of their disease. Or our own.

If we never forgave ourselves until we stopped doing the bad thing, absent an act of god, we'd never be free of it.

Whoa. That's a very very good point. You're right.

Quote:
Somebody once said, "They know not what they do." Truer words were never spoken.

Yes, this is true too.

On the other hand, while we forgive ourselves and pat ourselves on the back for good intentions, people continue to die from atrocities WE are doing. Telling them this is the best we can do, and to be grateful those atrocities aren't worse because we put in the least evil guy we could get--I don't think that counts for much.

Quote:
If you really knew paying taxes was wrong (deeply, objectively wrong like gang rape), you wouldn't do it.

I REALLLY know it is wrong. And yet, I do it because I don't want to go to prison. Gutless hypocrisy is the only name I have for it.

Thanks, HK.

-----

Disobedience is not an issue if obedience is not the goal.

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Saturday, March 23, 2013 4:24 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

As to the title of this thread... should I start laughing maniacally now.. or wait? Being hated by evil people is something to be celebrated.

"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you... YOU are locked in here with ME."

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Saturday, March 23, 2013 5:17 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Mal4Prez

If you think CTS is a piece of go se now, wait till she pulls her 'poor little victim' routine on you, after calling you a gang-raper. The whole - crying, wringing her handkerchief, I don't understand why she's being so MEAN to poor little misunderstood me, I was just trying to be honorable - schtick.

She's more than go se, she's MANIPULATIVE go se.

ETA: FWIW it seems like pushing people's buttons is her major talent in life.

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Saturday, March 23, 2013 6:51 PM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
As to the title of this thread... should I start laughing maniacally now.. or wait? Being hated by evil people is something to be celebrated.

Are you the evil people or is that everyone else?

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Saturday, March 23, 2013 7:03 PM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Mal4Prez

If you think CTS is a piece of go se now, wait till she pulls her 'poor little victim' routine on you, after calling you a gang-raper. The whole - crying, wringing her handkerchief, I don't understand why she's being so MEAN to poor little misunderstood me, I was just trying to be honorable - schtick.

She's more than go se, she's MANIPULATIVE go se.

ETA: FWIW it seems like pushing people's buttons is her major talent in life.

Kiki, I'm impressed with your post. You've got spunk. I recall that our last few exchanges a while back were quite decent and interesting. Y'ought to post more often.

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Saturday, March 23, 2013 8:17 PM

Well, since I hadda go and open my big mouth in the first place, imma try and address this in a from the top kinda-sorta-maybe coherent order, as it were.

Quote:
Do you mean that we are all culpable in some way, no matter our choices? I totally agree with this.

Aye, that's what I meant - sometimes people are trapped, and they don't feel they have a choice, and thus attempt to do-least-harm, but one should acknowledge there that harm WILL come of it.

Case in point: folks who voted for Obama cause Romney and his cabal are fucking lunatics, and dangerous ones to boot, they did what they did for reasons, and I don't dispute their intentions...
But Obama has hardly been the pancea he claimed he was gonna be, and those same folks have slacked a bit on chewing his ass for it, and thus some folks feel a certain denial of responsibility is going on.

Others have "refused to play the game", so far as they are able to do so, and those who are not by virtue of being trapped in the system do potently resent being forced to.
Case in point: I begrudge paying taxes, I would not if they were used to build infrastructure, feed the poor, keep services running, support medical care, the things Gov SHOULD be doing... but I do powerfully resent them being used to buy and build bombs and bullets to harm folks who bear no better crime than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

That I am culpable in this enrages me, but little choice do I have, and all I can do is throw monkeywrenches in retaliation, but I will not deny that responsibility, you see ?
Because we ARE responsible, collectively, there's no level of dilution of it where we ain't.

Quote:
Responsibility is more forward looking: what can we do at this point? That's a much use useful way to go.

That being generally my way of coming at it, but there's so much not-my-problem, not-my-fault goin round that a lot of people have become frustrated, often bitterly so, especially when they personally wind up on the business end of policies and whatnot, and suffer for it, only for those that have by accident, design or resignation supported them to deny all responsibility for doing so, and that does tend to really enrage people, alas.
As too does being told withdrawing consent and participation from the process amounts to "doing nothing", cause sometimes (as I point out in regards to foreign policy a lot) leaving well the hell enough ALONE might be the course of action, or at least not makin it worse.

While I see harsh words were exchanged here, in an attempt to clobber understanding of these positions into each other, which works about as well as it usually does, allow me to indulge in the mild hypocrisy of not using them myself just yet... cause we all know I can and will do that and worse if I feel the need.

...

I see HKCav has nailed one end of it down for me, therfore allowing me to concentrate on the other.

Comes a time to a person that you have to do what lets you look in the mirror and not cringe, even if everyone hates you for it, cause at the end of the day answering to that mirror is harder than any facade one could possibly hold up against a hostile world and society.
It's really no secret I have seriously massive *issues* with that of mine own and thus comprehend very deeply why someone would do what lets them live with themselves even if others do not approve - I mean hell, right now I could secure real medical care, make three times as much money for even less work and not have to answer to anyone but a guy I've known for years and respect...
And I will not do it - cause it means workin for TSA/DepHomeSec, sitting in a tower at the airport and picking out potential troublemakers for the shakedown, and I can't live with that.
So I go on protecting this little podunk backwater bit-of-nowhere for barely enough to put food on the table cause whether it MATTERS in the grand scheme of things these folk need, want and value both my protection AND my discretion, my leaving well the hell enough ALONE unless needs be otherwise - cause I can live with that, you know ?

Sometimes when you have no course of action which will not escalate matters, which will not improve them, sometimes staying your hand is the best course even if it grates.
Case in point: Trying to get a bunch of drunken louts to STFU at 2:40am - all you're gonna do is cause an argument and stir up shit and maybe cause an incident, when all you REALLY need do is wait about 10-15min till they start passing out and document that mess for the office to flag them a violation letter - sure it's not slambangsolveitrightnowgoddamnit, but even if you acted, it WOULDN'T... some things don't have easy answers.

Ergo, I am maybe just a little put off about the lack of acceptance in regard to folks doing what they can live with, especially since one of my methods of savaging the system is to reach out to those trapped within it and offer them ways to sandbag it and live with themselves a little better about the matter, don't you know.

Only reason I tend to get all imperial stormtrooper about some things, here and elsewhere, is when someone feels they can live with an action that has little impact on them, and a direct nasty impact on me and mine, and doesn't seem to care - yeah, that'll piss me off, sure.

Oh, a final side note to the notion of "Doing Nothing"...
Any of you watched Avatar: The Last Airbender ?
King Bumi explained "Neutral Ji" quite well, and APPLIED it even better.

There's a lesson in there, for them that'd learn it.
But in the end, do what YOU can live with, provided you can do so not at the expense of others.

-Frem

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Saturday, March 23, 2013 8:35 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Jong

My post to CTS which got eaten by the website went something like this:

"Telling them this is the best we can do, and to be grateful those atrocities aren't worse because we put in the least evil guy we could get--I don't think that counts for much."

But making a choice to have less evil is better than making a choice to keep the same amount of evil, or making a choice to have even more evil. It's to bad we can't be all powerful and make the choice to do away with evil entirely, and for that we should be severely criticized. And in your all-knowing judgment you are just the person to do that.

>>>

You see, when people are willing to discuss topics without pushing other people's buttons (and CTS is a master at button-pushing - siding with Frem as a fellow beleaguered anarchist, calling Mal4 a gang-rapist, creating ill-will then painting herself as a victim), when they bring up their experiences and opinions in order to share with others - I'm more than happy to oblige.

But CTS has pulled her shit way too often for me to have any patience with any bit of her. Life is short, and really, some people aren't worth the waste of time trying to engage with them. There are people here I have written off entirely as being worth spending any of my time on except to make fun of them. She is definitely on that list.

Notice, btw, that I'm not making global accusations as she does, based on a single post or a single pov or some overarching righteousness or an ideological difference. This is my long-term personal observation of her over time, and my personal response is to refuse to waste any bit of time I have on this earth playing her game.

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Saturday, March 23, 2013 9:04 PM

"beleaguered"?

Seriously?!

Try "belligerent" and possibly "bellicose" and you'd be closer to the mark.

FYI: You might consider, in the grand course of things - *I* am starting to have that opinion about most of you here.
Care to come clean, hmmm ?

-F

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Saturday, March 23, 2013 9:06 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"*I* am starting to have that opinion about most of you here."

Except CTS I'd guess. Have fun.

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Saturday, March 23, 2013 11:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Ergo, I am maybe just a little put off about the lack of acceptance in regard to folks doing what they can live with, especially since one of my methods of savaging the system is to reach out to those trapped within it and offer them ways to sandbag it and live with themselves a little better about the matter, don't you know.

Point taken.

Cause if we can't live with ourselves, death is the only other option.

And fighting SOME way is better than death.

-----

Disobedience is not an issue if obedience is not the goal.

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 3:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Meh.

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 5:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
If you think CTS is a piece of go se now, wait till she pulls her 'poor little victim' routine on you, after calling you a gang-raper. The whole - crying, wringing her handkerchief, I don't understand why she's being so MEAN to poor little misunderstood me, I was just trying to be honorable - schtick.

Oh, she’s done that to me before. I didn’t feel properly bad for her, which is why I think she’s carried such a grudge.

FWIW, though I still stand by giving her a slap down for what she said in this thread, I don't really think she's go se. People who behave like this do it for a reason. Really, when I'm not in the middle of the fray, I feel bad for her.

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 5:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
But Obama has hardly been the pancea he claimed he was gonna be, and those same folks have slacked a bit on chewing his ass for it, and thus some folks feel a certain denial of responsibility is going on.

Oh come on, Frem! You were here in 2008. The only ones who said that Obama was claiming to be a panacea or that everyone who voted for him worships him were those who HATED him. The rest of us know very well that he is human and therefore limited. He himself said the process would be hard, the fact that he was optimistic doesn’t mean he promised streets of gold and a unicorn for everyone.

I was pretty sure that he was in for a rough ride, and even with the best of intentions and damned good luck there was no WAY he’d improve enough stuff to get himself reelected.

I think a lot of folks mistook the elation of the left that W was gone—and replaced with someone capable of rational thought—for worship of Obama. Certainly, there was elation that the US did something I didn’t think I’d live to see by electing a black man. And I cannot downplay the sense of relief that my country would no longer be represented by barely literate oilfield cowboy and his soulless kemosabe. This did make me look at O with hearts in my eyes, I admit. But it didn’t make me worship him or expect perfection.

There has been plenty of disappointment regarding O’s effectiveness on this website by his “supporters”. The RWA types cannot fathom both supporting and criticizing an authority figure, so I guess these criticisms somehow escape their notice.

Quote:
Others have "refused to play the game", so far as they are able to do so, and those who are not by virtue of being trapped in the system do potently resent being forced to.

You think you’re the only one? Many of use who have held our noses and reached a toe in to a game we know is dirty resent having to do so. I fucking hate what my taxes are used for—I totally agree about that!

Regarding doing nothing: I stated several times that that is a valid choice, one I’ve made myself. I do not blame CTS or anyone else for it. (Again – as I said more than once!) The harsh words came up when it became clear to me that CTS was not here to talk politics or to address the many ills of the US. She came into this discussion with one goal (IMHO) – to prove her superiority. This goes back to several little spats we’ve had over the years. She was drooling to stick it to me. She pulled out the gang-rape thing so I’d hit back and then she could cry victim and secure her victory as the better person around here.

So I hit back to the extent that I’m comfortable with (believe me, I could have done more!) My current theory as to how to deal with people like this: honesty. I’ll be honest about where I am, and they can play their mental manipulative gymnastics with themselves until they’re all pretzeled up. Which is what I think happened to her. She pretzeled herself into arguing something she probably didn’t believe, but no damned way was she about to back down from me!

One last thing: I haven’t seen The Last Airbender.

And – is FREMD calling other people belligerent? LOL! I know you have to be laughing about that too!

And – come clean about what? Is this to kiki?

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 6:16 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

AFAIK CTS had an abusive childhood. So did a lot of people here. In this group it doesn't make her entitled to special consideration. But she revels in her toxic personality and spreads it wherever she goes. She's not trying to get over it, or trying to make the world a better place, she's the abuser now.

"And – come clean about what? Is this to kiki?"

Frem is the only one who knows. Since it was in a post to me I guess it was to me, but what it means ... not a clue.

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 7:17 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
If you think CTS is a piece of go se now, wait till she pulls her 'poor little victim' routine on you, after calling you a gang-raper. The whole - crying, wringing her handkerchief, I don't understand why she's being so MEAN to poor little misunderstood me, I was just trying to be honorable - schtick.

BINGO. I think we have a winner.

Quote:
FYI: You might consider, in the grand course of things - *I* am starting to have that opinion about most of you here. Care to come clean, hmmm ?

C'mon Frem, you're smarter than this. You said that people who voted for Obama believe him to be the panacea and are doing nothing else. Why are you saying that? You're saying that because CTS said it, that's why. Even though none of it is true, you forgot everyhting that anyone else had ever posted and sucked in CTS's blanket mischaracterization whole-cloth. I'm surprised you didn't choke on it. Just think back to the pre-vote posts: Did ANYONE think that Obama was The Oracle? Do you seriously think that Niki and others make voting their ONLY political act???

Here's my take on the situation (If you don't recognize the quote, look it up.)

Quote:
Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past.

Voting is a strategic act with limited choices. The best strategy was, and still is: If you live in a state in which the vote is overwhelmingly in one direction or another, then you're free to vote your ideal candidate. Why??? Because even though your vote won't make a difference to the final outcome, the Dems (Repubs too) DO keep track of the other parties' votes. If Dems vote drops and the Green Party scores a major uptick, the Dem central committee will definitely take notice.

But if the vote is a toss-up, the choice is tougher. You really do have to consider whether to vote for the lesser of two weevils, or whether it is worth the possible negative consequences in letting the lesser of two weevils fail. My personal opinion is that once the bigger weevil gets in power, there is a one-way ratchet to hell, so my advice would be to vote for the lesser of two weevils and try to make progress in other areas.

Forgiveness is not yours or CTS' to give, because none is required. The only thing I would do is slap some peeps upside the head (lightly) for not voting their third-party candidate if they had the chance, not because it was evil but because it was a wasted opportunity.

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 7:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
People who behave like this do it for a reason.

Thank you, Mal. Yes, I am going through a very painful period in my personal life, and I decided to come here and troll because right now, I hate myself, and I wanted to make other people hate me too.

I apologize profoundly for hurting your feelings. And of course, I take everything I said about you back.

I have a new level of respect for your personal integrity and honesty. Thank you again.

-----

Disobedience is not an issue if obedience is not the goal.

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:20 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

And here we have the victim card.

If this were a one-time thing, or an occasional thing, I'd believe her story. But this is a pattern over many. many years. And each and every time it's about some supposed current crisis, some problem from her past, some angst and drama that nobody else can understand.

I have yet to see one topic that CTS addresses without burying her head in the sand to block out facts, without snarking her way into earned hostility, without playing one poster against the other.

And despite her supposed yearning for truth, freedom, and a better world, I have yet to hear of ONE thing she has actually DONE to make things better.

Sheesh.

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 10:22 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
The RWA types cannot fathom both supporting and criticizing an authority figure, so I guess these criticisms somehow escape their notice.

In a nutshell. Yes, I'm sick to death of the "savior" and all the other ridiculous things the right continues to toss around--especially Rap. It ceased bothering me much after we'd explained it to him/them three or four times, I just assumed what Mal4 wrote. Says a lot about them, seems to me...

Quote:
Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past.

Sig, that, and that entire last post, are rather beautiful. Not that it'll make any impression.

If I were interested, I would ask, once again, why, if CTTS sees America and our system of government as so unmitigatedly evil, why she's a naturalized citizen? Why not just stay a citizen of Peru, which she must think is perfect, apparently?

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 10:27 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I do hope you looked up the source of the quote. If not, here it is!

Select to view spoiler:

Karl Marx 18th Brumaire

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 10:32 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

CTS: Another painful crisis?

Well, if your real-life behavior is anything like it is here on the board, maybe that is causing at least part of your problem.

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:09 AM

Err, no.
I was stating that referring to me as "beleagured" was ridiculous in light of the fact that I *am* belligerent and bellicose, in fact quite 'militant' about... well, NOT being militant, really.
Far as Anarchists go I'm hardball enough about it to offend other Anarchists, mostly cause they either haven't thought their actions through or choose to engage in the hypocrisy of trying to wreck structures other people seem to WANT, which IMHO violates the non-aggression principle and makes them hypocritical - and they really don't like it when you point that out.

And the opinion I was starting to have is that it's apparently futile to argue with folk who decide to take disagreement so damn personal that it gets downright nasty without regard to the facts of any particular point - this strikes home with me particularly cause I don't wanna run your lives for you as this is against all that I believe.

That is not, whatever, reciprocated here.
And that I resent this, bitterly, is bloody obvious, and then for those who can't or won't grok that maybe leaving people alone, I begin resenting THEM - especially when they decide to support things which have no real impact on them, but have an immediate and negative effect on me and mine, and then have utterly no humility or shame about it, nor see the hypocrisy of wanting such control over others all the while decrying conservatives doin the same goddamn thing, just on different things.

Just as I see no real difference between the Taliban and the Christian right, cause whatever supposed differences they have is immaterial in thier conduct towards me, same goes for political factions too, cause every little petty tyrant clamoring for a fistfull of leash and wanting to wrap it around my goddamn neck makes me kinda hateful, given that I fail to see the essential DIFFERENCE - they both wanna run other peoples lives for em, and when folks buck the leash are completely willing to use force.

And then they lie about it, on top of the hypocrisy.

As for trotting out that Obama-as-savior strawman, cause that is what is is, all that I said was that he wasn't the pancea he claimed he was gonna be - and this is pure unadulterated fact.
Gitmo is still operational, we're still up to our ass in the middle east, and our foreign policy is every bit the disaster it ever was - yes I am aware he was gonna be roadblocked at every turn and corner by the hard-right cabal, but there were things within his power that he chose not to do, and things within his power he ought NOT have done that he then chose to do, and while thankfully not given a free pass on that shit, I think that many folks were so overcome with relief to be out from under the grasping hand of the rightwing tyrant nutbags they didn't stand to when it really counted against more subtle and insidious means of accomplishing much the same things... and flamed as extremist those who tried to.
Like any politician, Obama could seriously use a major ass-chewing by the public, at the very least to remind him of where the folks who supported him stand, and as encouragement to not keep stickin his hand into the meatgrinder by trying to play nice with folks who have no intentions of doing so - and while I do see some level of disapproval, it's all desultory and apathetic, rather than the focused, concentrated rage which frankly *needs* to be applied to move any politician off their ass and out of the path of least resistance rut.

There's a far cry from sayin Obama needs more teeth in his ankle than the strawman folks shove up to the fore when they don't care for being called on not applying the stick to him.

There's also that this whole little bit as of late comes off as fucking bullying it does, whether or not there was any justification for it, reeking of the same boot-party the rightwingnuts used to hand out when they and their sockpuppets were the majority of RWED, meet the new boss same as the old boss - this is nowhere more clear than Rue coming along to put the boot in for her buddy Siggy, or did you think we haven't known for some time who you were, 1kiki ?
Just kinda happened by did you, thought someone needed an extra stomp ?
Cause CTS didn't say word fucking ONE to you in this matter before you started with the flamethrower, so where is your goddamn excuse ?

-Frem

PS. Not directed at you Mal4, but the little terror-trio here is IMHO, despicable in their own conduct.

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 11:55 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"... especially when they decide to support things which have no real impact on them, but have an immediate and negative effect on me and mine ..."

Such as? Who here has supported OVERdiagnosis and inappropriate drug therapy for minors? Who has supported drone strikes? The Iraq War? GITMO? Torture? The USPATRIOT Act? Oil drilling in the Gulf and Arctic? Nuclear power? Life begins at conception. C'mon - name names. I bet you have a whole list. List your topics - and name us some names, and quote us some quotes. Please. It would make your assertions so much more credible.

BTW - thanks for reminding me of that name, I was racking my brain trying to remember who I'm supposed to be. I will endeavor to remember it in the future.

As for me stepping in to support SignyM, it actually looks to me like it's the the way around.

Me, I stepped in b/c I'm old, in pain, cranky, and I enjoy irking the people who post things that irk me. I call it the privilege of being old. Yes, it may be hard to believe, but you're not the only one with significant medical problems, - life threatening ones in fact - and lots and lots and lots of pain. I get to be the cranky old lady. And in this case CTS irked me on Mal4's account. So I did what I enjoy doing - I irked back.

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:07 PM

Oh dear. I was going to make some post of peace, and hope it would end, but clearly this thing has its own life.

I seems I may have judged CTS's mentality correctly, in which case, I can only say that I have lived inside that brain and it was not easy. The process I described above, the manipulation and pretzely-ness, are things I have done without being aware I was doing them, and it made me miserable for years.

Yes, she got annoying, as she often has and probably will again. But I agree with Frem: no need for further stomping now that the fireworks are over. If she is in the same place were I used to be, no one is made more miserable by it than she is. Let that be enough, for Heaven's sake!

Quote:
Err, no.
I was stating that referring to me as "beleagured" was ridiculous in light of the fact that I *am* belligerent and bellicose, in fact quite 'militant' about... well, NOT being militant, really.

OK - makes much more sense! I mean, you would have a point that anyone who hangs out in RWED as long as I have picks up some belligerous-ishness, but no one will ever quite have your flair LOL!

Quote:
As for trotting out that Obama-as-savior strawman , cause that is what is is, all that I said was that he wasn't the pancea he claimed he was gonna be - and this is pure unadulterated fact.

You know, it's proof of how not-on-either-side you are that I often can't get your meaning. Do you mean it's a strawman that the rightwing says we worship O? Or did you see my post as a strawman?

Did O really claim to be a panacea? I mean, any more than any politician claims he or she will accomplish impossible tasks... Which of course fits right into your statement that both sides suck. I guess I tend to skip over some of that, because I take it as a given part of the process as it is today.

Quote:
I think that many folks were so overcome with relief to be out from under the grasping hand of the rightwing tyrant nutbags they didn't stand to when it really counted against more subtle and insidious means of accomplishing much the same things...

True. Can't argue about that.

Quote:
and flamed as extremist those who tried to.

Really? People who criticized Obama (in a reasonable way, not like the current example) got flamed?

Quote:
Like any politician, Obama could seriously use a major ass-chewing by the public,

Goodness yes! All politicians are disconnected and should be chewed. Even if they don't start that way, the system changes them. It's what happens when you have to win votes from an electorate which is itself not real connected.

My political fantasy is to get rid of professional politicians and elections and have public office be a duty that EVERYONE gets called up for, just like jury duty. It would come with an upper middle class salary, so it'd be a boon for the poor, a cut for the rich. We'd have plenty of $$ to fund it, since there'd be no more need for campaign slush funds.

A last thing about your Obama criticism that I'm in a bind over: part of me really wishes that O had steamrolled everything he wanted in his first two years and gotten all his shit done. Another part of me says that this is exactly what Bush did. As much as I despise the Tea Party and the current GOP, they are Americans, and they should be part of the process. This makes things slower, and even has despicable results, like more innocents killed overseas when the wars drag on. Buy it seems like letting the political pendulum take ever wider swings will lead to even worse disasters.

Loving the USA (not that we all have to) means that, while recognizing our shortcomings, we ought to respect the process that got us to where we are now. As flawed as we are, I much prefer living here and now rather than Europe in the 1700's. (Sorry this is lecture-y, it's a thought that's been rolling around for a while and isn't complete yet. Just throwing it out there.)

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:23 PM

I hope none of you would imagine that I've been taken in by CTS's great Powers of Manipulation, but I don't detect even the hint of "victim card" in this post. Read it again and try not to override it with what you "know" about CTS.

Maybe CTS is irratic and maybe she does have mental abnormalities. If it were true, that would suck, wouldn't it? Is this how you choose to treat people who are worse off than you? I don't get it. I really don't.

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
People who behave like this do it for a reason.

Thank you, Mal. Yes, I am going through a very painful period in my personal life, and I decided to come here and troll because right now, I hate myself, and I wanted to make other people hate me too.

I apologize profoundly for hurting your feelings. And of course, I take everything I said about you back.

I have a new level of respect for your personal integrity and honesty. Thank you again.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:37 PM

It's kind of interesting how passionately most of you are arguing when as far as I can see, mostly you are in pretty near agreement. Old resentments....

In a nutshell, your choices as citizens...

1. Vote for 3rd party options, as it may push a major party into those policy direction
2. Vote to keep the candidate you cannot tolerate OUT of power
3. Vote for the candidate whose policies align most closely with yours, and lobby/protest/demonstrate like mad to change the other policies
4. Become heavily involved within the political process to try and create change from within
5. Choose to not participate in the current system because you abhor it so much you cannot morally participate in any way and live with yourself

Have I left any options off?

Maybe whinge like hell on a board devoted to a 10 year defunct sci fi show (my personal fav)

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
I hope none of you would imagine that I've been taken in by CTS's great Powers of Manipulation, but I don't detect even the hint of "victim card" in this post. Read it again and try not to override it with what you "know" about CTS.

Maybe CTS is irratic and maybe she does have mental abnormalities. If it were true, that would suck, wouldn't it? Is this how you choose to treat people who are worse off than you? I don't get it. I really don't.

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:
Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
People who behave like this do it for a reason.

Thank you, Mal. Yes, I am going through a very painful period in my personal life, and I decided to come here and troll because right now, I hate myself, and I wanted to make other people hate me too.

I apologize profoundly for hurting your feelings. And of course, I take everything I said about you back.

I have a new level of respect for your personal integrity and honesty. Thank you again.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

Yeah, she was just being sarky

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:42 PM

Um. "Sarky" as in sarcastic? What if she's not?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 12:45 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I know people with serious neurological disabilities. I know people with destructive histories. I know people with both. I have nothing but patience and an open helping hand for them. For decades my efforts to help such people have been at the cost of at least another 40 hrs/ week on top of a full time job. I get it.

But NONE of them are as corrosive as CTS.

This: "... Yes, I am going through a very painful period in my personal life ..." is the typical non-apology of the serial abuser. It's not me, it's b/c of ... fill in the blank with your choice ... in this case "I hate myself". "I apologize profoundly for hurting your feelings. And of course, I take everything I said about you back." The guy with the flowers after he beat up his gf/ wife - again. I'm so sorry. I really didn't mean to. Don't think badly of me. Let me escape your dislike and get back into your good graces.

Me, I'm gong to wait and see how sincere she is. I suspect not very.

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 1:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Um. "Sarky" as in sarcastic? What if she's not?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

Yes sarky = sarcastic.

Seemed that way to me. But of course one of the great downfalls on internet discussion is that you cannot hear people's tone or see their face.

Maybe that's a good thing sometime. ;)

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 2:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Um. "Sarky" as in sarcastic? What if she's not?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

Yes sarky = sarcastic.

Seemed that way to me. But of course one of the great downfalls on internet discussion is that you cannot hear people's tone or see their face.

Maybe that's a good thing sometime. ;)

That post does sound like it could be snark, but she sent me a PM that is more cordial. I'm not saying I'm going to enter into many conversations with her in the future, but in my mind this thing is settled and done. Let's all leave her be and move on.

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 2:49 PM

My post to Mal4 was sincere. My acceptance of her piece of shit award was sarcastic. I know it is hard to tell the difference in print, but there it is.

Thank you too, HK and Frem, for trying to make peace. I adore you both.

-----

Disobedience is not an issue if obedience is not the goal.

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 4:43 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Okay. So I was thinking about this today.
The nicest things people have said about me: Jack says I'm humble, I don't think its true, I fake it okay for short periods, but I don't think I'm a particularly humble person. Jack also says other good things about me that I would like to think are true. People say that even though I may not agree with them they think I'm someone who cares about people essentially. I feel this is true. I do care about people, they're all that really matters for the most part, relationships are what matters when you boil life down.

As for the bad things: People say I'm passive agressive. I've thought about that one since it happened last March, I didn't really understand what that means but I think I finally get it. And now that I understand what it means I think I can agree that I'm a bit passive aggressive, but not to a problematic level, I don't think a bit of it hurts anyone. Why is it such an insult to be told you're passive aggressive? What's wrong with it in moderation?
I've been told that I'm a goody two shoes, what is the etimology of that one anyways? Whether that is true remains to be seen. In some ways I'm prudish and in some ways I'm crude, it all depends on the topic really and what people define as prude and crude, I've got both going on.
People think its "sad" that I believe some of the things I do. If they seriously think that's sad then they should go experience real life for a spell and they'll see what sad is. So I can't agree there. I believe what I believe, it is what it is, I'm an adult with the right to believe and live my life as I see fit, y'all can believe how you wish too, its a free verse.

Others? What are the best, and worse, things you recall off the top of your head people saying to you on this forum? Do you think they are true?

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

Hehe....

Riona... I think you missed the entire point I was trying to make with you!!!!!!

Who cares what people think about you?????

As long as you are living what you see as a virtuous life, or at the very least, a life you can be content with, forget about those outside influences (especially from the RWED!!!!!)

I can guarantee that 99% of the fools that gave me shit in grade school are in a much worse situation than I am. Hell.... most of my friends are in relly dire straits now financially with their families.

If you take nothing else away from this, it's that you never have anything bad to say about anyone. That's, at least from my standpoint, your guiding light.

Maybe I was mistaken to call it "Humble" about you, but I really think it is. You must have had a tougher than normal upbringing to continually put others on a pedestal while never admiring yourself for who you are and who you've become.

To answer your question for the thread......

I've been called "fag". I've been called "teacher's pet". I've been called everything pretty much except any "ugly" remarks because that would just show the accuser how stupid they were.

What I've learned over the years is to just go with it....

When somebody tells me I'm a fag, I ask them if they'd mind dislodging the dead gerbil out of my ass because Richard Geer is busy this weekend.

I just leave the boss/manager thing out of the equation there though. They were probably on to something. Any job where I had to actually punch in, Igot 20 more hours a week than any dildo making a remark. I really just feel sorry for them that this is the only job that they can get in their position......

minimum wage with no benefits and no hope for the future......

If that makes me a fag........?

Well....

I'm your Huckelberry......

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 4:49 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

CTS

Quote:
Thank you too, HK and Frem, for trying to make peace.

Frem was "trying to make peace"????

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, whatever. But thanks for the laugh!

FREM
CTS calls people gang-rapists by saying they did/ thought/ felt things that they never did. When she was called on it, she did what she always does... she climbed onto her cross. And you did what YOU always do... you got on your high horse defending asshole behavior. Yanno, there is no reason to "forgive" people for doing/thinking/ feeling things they never did, but if forgiveness was required you would not be one of the people justified in doling it out. The only person who forgave anyone in this thread was MAL4. I think I understand why CTS does what she does, but why you do what you do is a puzzle.

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 6:58 PM

And here I expected an avalanche slide into flamewar - I am rather pleasantly surprised, would that I were wrong more often...
Believe me, it's not any comfort being right on something when most of the time those things are pretty awful, but nevermind that for now.

Mal4

Quote:
You know, it's proof of how not-on-either-side you are that I often can't get your meaning. Do you mean it's a strawman that the rightwing says we worship O? Or did you see my post as a strawman?

Nah, not your post - thing is, yea verily the rightwingnuts like to hold up that Obama-as-savior strawman when folk point out the difficulty of climbing uphill against the obstructionist tide of morons, even though nobody really holds that belief, it's just bullshit.

Thing is, there I went throwing harsh but fairly honest criticisms of the guy, only to get accused of advancing that particular strawman, which I was not - Obama might be the best of a bad lot, but that's a damn piss poor showing and an awfully low standard to be holding.
He can do better, we can do better, and we have a responsibility, a civic duty one might even call it, to MAKE that lazy bastard do better, and to kneecap the hell out of those who obstruct just for the sake of partisanship as well.

See, Anarchists are big on civic duty, they HAVE to be, cause without a Government to force the issue, to provide for it, they absolutely have to be willing to stand to without that nudge, and if they are not then that means they're fulla shit about not needing a Gov to get things done.
Of course, TRY telling some of them this without physically pounding it into their skull, now there's an exercise in frustration for ya, but I digress...

Quote:
Did O really claim to be a panacea? I mean, any more than any politician claims he or she will accomplish impossible tasks... Which of course fits right into your statement that both sides suck. I guess I tend to skip over some of that, because I take it as a given part of the process as it is today.

Well, as with all of em he made promises - but some of those promises were by no means hard to carry out, and didn't require him to find a way to ram them through the opposition, and yet he still did not keep them, and I found that a bit of a bitter pill to swallow.
Tis one thing to have the excuse of rabid opposition, but moral cowardice and political laziness is just unacceptable.

Quote:
Really? People who criticized Obama (in a reasonable way, not like the current example) got flamed?

Well, I did - mind you that was in respect to not calling these Corporate wall street jackasses to heel a LOT harder than was done, and now in hindsight that flameage doesn't seem so justified, but oh well.
You've never done so, mind - but an enormous pet peeve with me is when I encourage a stand about something, get told I am overreacting and extremist, and then thanks to no one standing up it then *DOES* get every fucking bit as bad as I called it, and when it's pretty much TOO LATE to do any goddamn thing about it the very same folks who pooh-poohed the notion of standing up WHEN IT MEANT SOMETHING dare whinge and whine about the very things they either allowed to happen or even cheered on... till it came back around and slapped them in the face just like I said.

Cases in point:
Giving cops Tasers without proper oversight and accountability of their use.
Allowing zero-tolerance bullshit in our schools, which then became the norm for airport security.
Not standing up for the rights of Youth in general, cause due to their less-than-pets legal/social/political status, they are often the test bed for invasive/oppressive measures which once codified and refined, *WILL* be applied against the people as a whole, just as Zero Tolerance became Airport Security, for example.

So you can imagine just how little sympathy I have for folk who say, supported Zero Tolerance in schools, when they come whine to me about being shaken down and harrassed at the terminal, right ?
That's more a real-life issue than with folks on the board, but I am not any kinder about it even so and in fact a great deal worse, to the point of downright cruelty to folks who've done it on more than one issue.

Anyhows, yeah, I called it on both Congress in 2006 taking a goddamn dive instead of pulling us out of the war, and I called it BEFORE THEY DID SO and got reamed for it, and I called it on Obama rolling over and going bellyup on his promises to stop fiddling in the middle east and playing pattycake with the military-intel-corporate combine, not that it mattered much.

Quote:
My political fantasy is to get rid of professional politicians and elections and have public office be a duty that EVERYONE gets called up for, just like jury duty. It would come with an upper middle class salary, so it'd be a boon for the poor, a cut for the rich. We'd have plenty of $$ to fund it, since there'd be no more need for campaign slush funds.

I could maybe tolerate that - mind you I got kinda-sorta forcibly elected to the city council of my former township and caused one hell of a ruckus (all the while hamming it up quite severely) and eventually got run out of town on a rail more or less for doing the very things they shoved me into that office to do, although years later they do seem to remember me more fondly...
Tis best remembered that one should be absolutely SURE they really WANT what they are asking for, and are prepared for the natural consequences of those actions, before installing a bastard likely to carry it all the way through into public office - which leads me to your next point.

Quote:
A last thing about your Obama criticism that I'm in a bind over: part of me really wishes that O had steamrolled everything he wanted in his first two years and gotten all his shit done. Another part of me says that this is exactly what Bush did. As much as I despise the Tea Party and the current GOP, they are Americans, and they should be part of the process. This makes things slower, and even has despicable results, like more innocents killed overseas when the wars drag on. Buy it seems like letting the political pendulum take ever wider swings will lead to even worse disasters.

That is why I could not support Perot - he would have needed damn near dictatorial power to carry that off, and that is an amount of influence NO ONE should be given, or allowed to take, cause even if they're the most benevolent person ever, which politicians generally ain't - it sets a precedent that the NEXT guy is gonna use, abuse and take advantage of... something the rightwingnuts are crying foul over right now despite themselves enabling it in the first goddamn place (See Also: Pet Peeve mentioned above) and more sensible folk opposed from the very start.

You wanna see a real life example of just how fast that can go to shit, just keep watching Venezuela - for all his flaws Chavez wasn't that bad a guy (our press vilified him mainly cause he managed to stand off our greedy manipulations and multiple coup attempts intent on replacing him with a controllable dictator like The Shah, Saddam, Pinochet, Papa Doc, etc... despite that NEVER working on a long term and ALWAYS coming back to bite us) even he was a bit full of himself toward the end - the problem is that he kept on adding more power to his office without regard to the notion that some day he was gonna cap it and be replaced, possibly by someone with less restraint and decency, and on that matter I guess we will see - I don't see much good coming of it though, and when have we ever known politicians to hand power BACK when they're finished using it ?

Mind you, I am all for steamrollering these dumbass, maliciously-deliberately-pridefully ignorant dumbfucks clamoring for a return to a glory-days-that-never-was where women and minorities knew their "place" and life was good and full of rainbows...
*eyeroll*
But as you say, it needs happen WITHIN THE PROCESS, or the process itself is nothing more than a thin tissue of fiction over who can apply more force - which frankly it is all too often these days anyhows, but at least the pretense offers some restraint, sure.

And don't mind being "lecture-y", better reasoned, thought-through explainations and arguments than jammed together soundbites which are effectively meaningless and often hide a far different agenda.

Now... it is true that I don't pretend to hold moral high ground in this, as I don't hold a lot of respect for that process and will end run it, loophole and exploit it, twist some arms and engage in smoke filled backroom deals and whatnot, any branch of politics, even Anarchism has it's grey areas, but that is MY turf, my realm, and those with official status do not belong there, IMHO.

Anyhows, it's OUR responsibility, mutually and collectively, to put a fire under the Presidents ass when he fucks it up, to make the hot seat very uncomfortable for him, cause no politician should EVER be comfortable with that much power, not now not ever - and just so, it is also then our responsibility to kneecap and run over these obstructionist retrograde troglodyte dimwits if they cannot, will not, be reasoned with, cause really what other option does one have ?

Negotiation, or Force - that's prettymuch all anyone has.
And if they choose not to negotiate, bluster and threaten - I say we call the bluff.
Sometimes a fast head-on confrontation is SO much better than extended round and round pin-sticking which accomplishes nothing but to deliver nasty fallout everywhere, demean the process and wear down any faith or confidence in it.
But that needs to happen on OUR level first, or the politicos will not engage.

-Frem

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 6:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Frem was "trying to make peace"????

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

Seconded !

-F

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 7:47 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

CTS, I hope whatever is going unpleasantly for you improves soon, sometimes life sucks and it never seems to get any easier when things are going poorly. Best wishes.

The people who have said the worst things to/about me are Wish, Cav, Magon's, Kiki and Niki. Wish was my number one nemesis for a while but Cav has replaced her and she has moved down to number 2. Well technically my best friend's husband is my no. 1 nemesis because he's in real life. But that's neither here nor there.

The worst thing I've said to Kiki was saying that the kids in her neighborhood are probably scared of her and make up creepy stories about what happens if they step on her lawn. this was in response to her large volume of name calling in my name calling experiment last year, I thought I was giving punishment (reward?) for winning at most names called. Plus Kiki portrays herself as a cold and rather unfeeling person who likes to be mean for sport. As time goes by however I've seen that Kiki is not always that way, sometimes she is nice and caring and can be reasonable where others fail to be. I think Kiki's not so bad as I used to think. Though that improvement regarding her disposition was tested a couple of months ago when she was a snot to me. But dispite that hickup I'm trying to see the good in Kiki and I now know it is there, she just usually hides it, which is really a shame, because I think if people knew more about the good in her they'd get on with her better. I did apologize for saying that about her and I think she accepted. I was wrong to say that about the neighbor kids, it wasn't right and I'm still sorry I did it. I have this weakness in me where if I perceive, rightly or wrongly, time usually lets me know, that someone is cold and unfeeling, lacks empathy or doesn't have the capacity to love I really dislike that person and start pushing their buttons on purpose, to try and see if maybe I'm wrong about them, or maybe to make them angry, or something. But I now know, I figured it out about nine months ago, that Kiki does care about people and has good in her and so I try not to be mean to her anymore. I've definitely grown to like her better, with a few bumps in the road sure, but no one is perfect, and I do know now that she has some good qualities and actually does care about people in this world.

Cav: Well I almost insulted him i nGaeilge in my other current thread to prove my point, but I chose not to do that, so I really haven't said anything very bad about him.

Wish: When we got in that fight last year I said some things to her, insinuated morelike, sideways which were very unkind and were a little cruel, but I still secretly believe them to be true based on a compilation of her behavior on here. But she was asking for it in my opinion and what I said got the desired affect, it riled her visibly and soon after she settled down which was good.

I've had other times when I've written something really unkind and then deleted before posting, because being mean isn't the best way to get points across and my main point for being on here was to make friends, so I could talk to people even if I couldn't go anywhere and talk to people.

Oh, and Jack, I have said some mean things to Jack, but only when he asks for it, I believe I referred to him as trash once based on something he wrote that deeply troubled me. But he said I misunderstood what he wrote and I choose to believe that is correct, that I misunderstood. Because if I didn't misunderstand then I can't talk to him anymore.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 8:06 PM

Whoa. How did I manage to even rate on your nemesis scale, let alone achieve the top spot? 'Cause I thought you were dismissive of the crimes of St. Patrick??? Really?

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 8:36 PM

See my post some pages back. Rione cannot tolerate to be disagreed with. You disagreed with her. Therefore you are her No 1 nemesis.

There is nowt as strange as folk....

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 9:00 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

This is my take on her - she has genuine external and internal conflicts.

I suspect due to her illness she was indulged and a low standard was set for her. And she indulges herself - if her life is short and inconsequential she might as well believe what makes her happy; facts, logic and the ability to discuss divergent views be damned. OTOH she truly depends on others for the necessities of life, so any disagreements have to be very, very covert. I think she's in a mental bind. She's too dependent to be upfront, and too self-indulgent to give up the fantasies and happy play-world in her head. But then, she comes across as really young. There's a saying I heard a while back that settles in as more true as times goes on - when we're younger we are the people we were raised to be, as we get older we become the people we were born to be. She's got a ways to go. IMHO

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Sunday, March 24, 2013 10:44 PM