Grammar Rocks by maugwai

i DO aim to misbehave

Quote:
Originally posted by maugwai:
Okay, so that I don't go nuts and start correcting the grammar of every post I see and really piss people off...

Heck, I do that all the time. I do it in the Gunrunners RP, and for every post I reply to. Just because the person who initiated the post is using bad grammar doesn't mean I have to. A girl has to have her principles, right?

In fact, if I sinned grammatically, let me know!

Fans come and fans go...but zealots are with you until the bitter black end.
I draw...therefore I am.
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 6:24 AM

EST120

Quote:
Originally posted by maugwai:
Feel free to add your own grammatical errors at will.

not really a grammar thing, but the phrase "i could not care less." most often, people seem to write or say "i could care less". i feel this is not as strong a statement (though not necessarily incorrect). this phrase is most often used to imply that something is so utterly unimportant to you that it ranks as the absolute, dead last thing on your mind. thus, there is nothing else that you care less about. so saying, "i could care less" says that there IS something else you care less about and the topic at hand is NOT the bottom of the list. it seems natural to think that "i could not" or "i couldn't care less" is the more appropriate statement.

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 12:12 PM

HELL'S KITTEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:
Quote:
Originally posted by maugwai:
Okay, so that I don't go nuts and start correcting the grammar of every post I see and really piss people off...
Heck, I do that all the time. I do it in the Gunrunners RP, and for every post I reply to.

Channain, Channain, Channain.... A preposition is a bad thing to end a sentence with.

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 12:21 PM

MELEAUX

The error that most gets my dander up is not very often a printed mistake but in conversation. Double negatives

" I don't got no more bannanas." If you don't got NO bannanas then you have SOME! Also a local pronunciation of ASK- as AXE. "she axed me to go with her" It makes me literally cringe.

She understands, she doesn't comprehend

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 1:42 PM

i DO aim to misbehave

Quote:
Originally posted by Hell's Kitchen
Channain, Channain, Channain.... A preposition is a bad thing to end a sentence with.

See, that's the good thing about practicing good grammar in other situations. When you screw up like that, those who don't know any better can't see it. On the upside, at least I spelled it "to" and not "two" or "too"... hey is there a "teux"? And if so, did I just swear?

Fans come and fans go...but zealots are with you until the bitter black end.
I draw...therefore I am.
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 2:18 PM

DRE

Quote:
Originally posted by UnchartedOutlaw:
Where do I start? :) I teach high school English and I am convinced the Internet will be the death of the English language. All the various misuses of "their/there/they're". Oh yeah, and people who write "should of" instead of "should have".

Simply evil.

-Taylor

AMEN.

My peeves (being an english major and strong linguistically):
-People ending with prepositions.
-Incorrect relative pronouns (big on 'who' and 'whom')
-'should of' really gets my goat
-Every misspelled common word I see (mostly from younger, chat-room goers): blame, two, too, yours, you're, &c ad nauseam,
-and a the whole 'u r', 'ur', 'y not?', 'thnx'. I mean, for God's sake, it's only a few more letters! Is life THAT important that you must shortcut through normal dialogue and just look bad? I -can- understand to a degree of foreigners who do it (English is a pain to learn, though I think it's much more a grammar issue than spelling), but when I see a whole paragraph written on a subject using 'u' and 'u r' and 'y i cant do this' it just makes me not care about what you writing in the first place.

Now, I don't neccessarily mean to put down people, it's more a frustration with not using all that potential and brainpower we as human beings have.

And I'm not gonna totally nitpick people. A lot of stuff has worked into our vernacular and even I type with 'gonna' and 'c'mon' sometimes when I feel it fits the conversational tone. Different from seeing pages of..bad... sentences.

My biggest pain: "I am me", etc. It is "I am I," and "It was I who started the fire," respectively.

I'm done venting.

IKIYO

DRE

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 2:32 PM

LISSA

ok, i'm a huge grammar freak myself, and i'm pretty damn good at it, at least in comparison to my classmates, but when i'm online after a long day of classes in which perfect grammar is neccessary, i'm not gonna use what's left of my brainpower to write in perfect english. i don't mean this as an attack on you guys so much as an apology;) oh, and i'm totally with u on the whole "should of" thing. i mean, what is that? lol! and if i ever do stuff like use the wrong form of their, there, or they're (same goes for to, two, and too), just know that it's because my brain has shut down for the day. those mistakes actually drive me INSANE because i know that i know what the correct form is, but the reader won't. argh! so ya, my head hurts. i'm done.

~lissa, spwhore

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 2:34 PM

LISSA

oh, also, i have to say i'm pretty appalled at the grammar at bu. i mean, it's not that hard to write a sentence that is gramatically correct...or maybe it's just me...

~lissa, spwhore

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 2:51 PM

GORDONCOMSTOCK

A few things terribly wrong with this thread:

First, a lot of what's being mentioned here are not grammar problems, but spelling problems. There's a significant difference, which I have to point out because what I'm about to say does not apply to the perfectly valid spelling complaints that have been made here.

But, as for grammar . . . I highly recommend you all read Steven Pinker's renowned linguistics tome The Language Instinct, particularly Chapter 12, "The Language Mavens". He takes on the whole notion of prescriptive grammatical rules -- that is, rules describing how people, according to some ass who thinks he knows best, "ought" to talk, as opposed to what linguists are concerned with, descriptive rules, which describe how people do talk. To a linguist, if a certain syntax is used and understood it is grammatical. No question about it.

Pinker goes on to confront some of the very alleged "incorrect" grammar mentioned by persons here. The most obviously ridiculous of the prescriptive rules are rules invented in the 18th century by people who thought English would be better if it was more like Latin. In Latin, it is impossible to end a sentence with a preposition, even if you wanted to, and still make sense. English has no such problem, but the 18th century classicists were so convinced that Latin was the ideal language, they imposed the rule on English anyway. Through the education system, this ridiculous "rule" has been propagated throughout the centuries. Not that many people tend to obey it, and they're all the better for it. Imagine actually trying to never end an English sentence with a preposition. It would drive you right insane.

The same history applies to the split-infinitives "rule", but that hasn't actually been mentioned here. Guess because this isn't a Star Trek forum.

Pinker also address "I could care less", pointed out what English teachers everywhere have somehow failed to grasp. "I could care less" is sarcastic. Just compare the inflection used when the lines are spoken, and you can tell: I couldn't care less versus I could care less.

He also debunks the notion that a double-negative makes a positive, pointing out that double-negatives are the norm in hundreds of languages, and was even the norm in Middle English. For example, in French: Je ne sais pas -- "ne" and "pas" are both negative, "pas" simply agrees with the negated verb. The same thing is actually done in Standard English, only using supposedly positive words like "any" -- but if you take the negative out of

I didn't buy any lottery tickets.

leaving the "any" in, you don't get a positive statement, you get nonsense ("I bought any lottery tickets.") What "any" does there, "no" does in "I didn't buy no lottery tickets".

Grammar rocks, yes, but not when it's made up.

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 5:23 PM

ZENCAT

I'm an editor by day, and I spend way too much time arguing with my fellow editors about rules of grammar. (I am, of course, always right.) The rule about never ending an English sentence with a preposition would make the construction of some sentences simply too awkward to easily understand. As Gordon pointed out, it's a result of stubbornly forcing Latin rules on English.

Me, I like to use ain't, and then defend it when people correct me. Ain't, although archaic, is the proper (and only) contraction of "am not". It's correct to say "I ain't listening to you" but not correct to say "you ain't listening to me." But I think the first-person-singular part of the usage faded away well before usage of the word mysteriously became an error all by itself. Funny how language changes.

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 5:33 PM

EBONEZER

You guys do have valiad points. My grammar sucks, I'll be the first to admit. (What the hell is a prepasition anyway?) My spelling is worse. I'd like to apologize for this. But, in my defence, this is a dissusion board, and I write the same way that I talk, more or less, and I don't talk with pefect grammar so why should I type with it.

Sure, good grammar is definatly important, just not so much here.

Although, I'll definatly agree with you about everybody using 'u' and 'ur' and for some reason 'lol' really pisses me off, although I'm not sure why...And yeah, people need to learn the difference between your and you're and they're, their, and there.

-----------------------------------

Four out of five dentists reccomend calling Ebo a girl.

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 5:46 PM

GORDONCOMSTOCK

Quote:
Originally posted by Zencat:
Me, I like to use ain't, and then defend it when people correct me. Ain't, although archaic, is the proper (and only) contraction of "am not".

Not the only. "Amn't", though entirely out of use now, has cropped up from time to time.

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 5:49 PM

JCPRICE

Hi all,

gotta love grammar.

What is it though?
A set of official prescribed rules?
A way of structuring words to effectively convey meaning in a given context?
A combination of the two?
Something else entirely?

I'm not a linguist. However, I would have to argue that the idea of a language is a social construct that is recreated in and defined in every act of communication. Grammar is a subset of generalisable rules that can be built up from individual communication acts.

In essence, what people agree is grammar, is grammar.

New languages and rules are constantly being generated to distinguish forms of speech. It's not pure laziness. Subcultures generate their own rules of speech, writing, dress, etc to distinguish themselves.

Contractions used in text messaging are both a practical outgrowth of low typing speeds, the desire to save time, *and* the imperative to create distinctive forms of communication.

How do you recognise old farts in a chat room? They refuse to use contractions and try to correct peoples' grammar.

That said. I'm with you guys!

Number one pet peeve: posessive apostrophes and their misapplication!

Btw, is the smiley face a new form of grammatical mark? ;)

jason

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 6:02 PM

DINGOACTION

Quote:
Originally posted by UnchartedOutlaw:
Where do I start? :) I teach high school English and I am convinced the Internet will be the death of the English language.

We actually had a fairly fascinating (in my mind, anyway) discussion about this in my digital rhetoric class. We were talking about how freshman writing classes now have kids look at what they consider writing, and how they never include instant messaging in their list. And yet, it has profoundly shaped the way they write.

I'd like to defend my age group here, or at least me, and point out we were victims of the 'creative spelling' movement back in second grade. I can't spell worth crap, so I do apologize for that. But I capitalize 'I,' which is my pet peeve.

Also, as now seems as good a place as any to ask, could someone please tell me when to use "talked to" vs. "spoke with?" Or when you tack on the prepositions (prepositions? the 'to' and 'with') does it not matter which one you use? It's always bugged me.

--
That summabitch deserves an emmy!

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 8:10 PM

NEUTRINOLAD

I think part of the fun of Firefly boards is to try to write in the vernacular of the show as much as possible, as opposed to corresponding in a a forum for my professional colleagues. I suppose I have different rules for each context.

That being said, it has nothing to do with grammar, but reading things like,

Quote:
In essence, what people agree is grammar, is grammar.

is a tautology, and quickly leads to Humpty-Dumptyism, one of my own pet peeves.

I also have an adverse reaction to things like, "We'll alter the plan as needed, going forward." I call these MBAisms, as it seems to be people with advanced business degrees who spew such nonsense. Or maybe they have a method of time travel into the past of which I am unaware?

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:55 PM

O how I love this thread!

First, no one has yet mentioned the glaring errors in the very first post, by Maugwai, under his number 4), he has, "The assault weapons band...." Should be, "The assault-weapons ban...."

Note the added hypen, and corrected spelling.
(Sorry, Maug. It's the curse of being an editor.)
================================
DRE, you said:
"...it just makes me not care about what you (are) writing in the first place."

I wholly agree. If only folks UNDERSTOOD this! So many try to make an important point, but their poor-to-nonexistent writing skills makes them look utterly foolish, at least to those who have a basic grasp of our language. And the folks who know better are often the ones the writer is trying to reach.

I suspect some of the need to speak and write precisely comes from the British class system. One didn't mess with commoners, much less "scrubbers" if one was of the higher classes there, and language quickly gave (and gives) away the person's status. Naturally this came to the U.S. at an early date. Whether or not we want it, there are classes here also, and the top classes of persons generally speak and write better than "commoners."

I think there's a musical analogy here also. A complicated piece of music may be played well or poorly on, say, a piano or classical guitar. If we wish to communicate precisely and clearly, we need to practice the instrument; and whenever we play it, we need to strive for perfection. Anything less gives results that are just too sloppy to be taken seriously.

.......Ruxton

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NeutrinoLad:
I think part of the fun of Firefly boards is to try to write in the vernacular of the show as much as possible, as opposed to corresponding in a a forum for my professional colleagues. I suppose I have different rules for each context.

That being said, it has nothing to do with grammar, but reading things like,

Quote:
In essence, what people agree is grammar, is grammar.

is a tautology, and quickly leads to Humpty-Dumptyism, one of my own pet peeves.

I also have an adverse reaction to things like, "We'll alter the plan as needed, going forward." I call these MBAisms, as it seems to be people with advanced business degrees who spew such nonsense. Or maybe they have a method of time travel into the past of which I am unaware?

There's a brilliant book by Bill Bryson called 'Troublesome Words', which I recommend to anyone who is interested in the language and looking for a good giggle! As an example, he points out that advance planning is a pointless phrase since all planning is in advance...

I'm someone who's picky about correctness in writing, but I'm hampered by the fact that I was taught English at school by teachers who couldn't spell, and I was never actually taught grammar at all...

On a board like this, it doesn't bother me so much - for one thing, a lot of spelling mistakes can be put down to people typing their thoughts very quickly and not reviewing what they've written. I'm forever typing you're instead of your, don't know why - it's just the way my fingers hit the keys!

Outside in the real world though, it annoys the hell out of me to see professional signs created that use apostrophes in the wrong place, or official documents with spelling mistakes (trivia note: the immigration waiver form that you have to fill in to get into the US from the UK on holiday has a mistake in it). I mean, don't these people proof-read?

---
"I think the right place to start is to say, fair is fair. This is who we are. These are our numbers." Mr Willis of Ohio - The West Wing

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:52 PM

CALHOUN

My grammar is far from perfect though I must point out yet another glaring error in the original post.

Quote:
maugwai wrote:
Tuesday, October 26, 2004 03:28

To pluralize, you add and "s" or "es" as in "dogs"

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 12:24 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by NeutrinoLad:

Quote:
In essence, what people agree is grammar, is grammar.

is a tautology, and quickly leads to Humpty-Dumptyism, one of my own pet peeves.

For anyone who, like me, needed to look these up:

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Tautology
http://www.pseudodictionary.com/word.php?id=16012

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 1:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Calhoun:
My grammar is far from perfect though I must point out yet another glaring error in the original post.

Quote:
maugwai wrote:
Tuesday, October 26, 2004 03:28

To pluralize, you add and "s" or "es" as in "dogs"

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

*chortle* isn't it always the way - never a typo in sight until you comment on someone else's writing. Which is why I nearly always chicken out from doing it!

---
"I think the right place to start is to say, fair is fair. This is who we are. These are our numbers." Mr Willis of Ohio - The West Wing

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 2:26 AM

MAUGWAI

Quote:
Originally posted by Ruxton:
O how I love this thread!

First, no one has yet mentioned the glaring errors in the very first post, by Maugwai, under his number 4), he has, "The assault weapons band...." Should be, "The assault-weapons ban...."

.......Ruxton

Well, crap. I'm irked that I didn't catch that, or the missing period. That's actually one thing that always throws me - the use of periods in or out of quotation marks.

But that brings us to another interesting grammatical conundrum of the internet. The anonymity makes it difficult to tell gender. I am a "she".

And I'll throw as many stones as I want, thank you very much. It's my thread.

"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 3:51 AM

CALHOUN

Quote:
maugwai wrote:
Wednesday, October 27, 2004 02:26

But that brings us to another interesting grammatical conundrum of the internet. The anonymity makes it difficult to tell gender. I am a "she".

Hehe Maugwai,

I suspected you were a female.

The nagging about trivial grammatical discrepencies...

Hehe, only kidding, i'm not really a sexist.

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 9:02 AM

NEUTRINOLAD

Quote:
I suspected you were a female.

The nagging about trivial grammatical discrepencies...

I just realized, when I look for someone to proofread my work I default to women.

Maybe I am sexist.

Or maybe the women I know are better read than the men I know.

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 9:17 AM

MANIACNUMBERONE

It's fun to point out grammatical errors. If we were pointing out spelling errors too, I'd have a little to say about your initial post, maugwai.

-------------------------------------------
Inara: Who's winning?
Simon: I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
-------------------------------------------

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 9:28 AM

i DO aim to misbehave

Quote:
Originally posted by Zencat:
I'm an editor by day, and I spend way too much time arguing with my fellow editors about rules of grammar. (I am, of course, always right.) The rule about never ending an English sentence with a preposition would make the construction of some sentences simply too awkward to easily understand.

I was an editor for three years--feeling your pain. What's good, though, is the fits of giggles editors get into over the dumbest things while the writers stand by and go, "to whubba who?"

I wrote "for every post I reply to." in here just recently, and someone caught me. So I've been trying to come up with a better way to write that sentence and so far nothing has come to me that I can't say without hearing it in an English accent. My English accent is the queen's too, so you can understand the scary.

The one word I take exception with - that I think should be blatantly outlawed - is WHASSUP!!! Why? Because it's not a word! It's a gutteral sound not unlike a really long obnoxious burp which is disgusting, but serves a purpose, right?

I don't really care if it takes less keystrokes to put an ampersand in place of the word "and" - just stop!

Oh, and the folks who have started using the "@" symbol irreverently - "call me @ 4:30 @ my home phone" are starting to work on my last nerve too.

Fans come and fans go...but zealots are with you until the bitter black end.
I draw...therefore I am.
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 10:56 AM

Channain, Gotcha!
Your "...if it takes less keystrokes...."
Should be: "...if it takes fewer keystrokes...."
========================
I had an argument with a fellow (male) editor some years back, concerning the use of the term "late."

One of use wanted to say something like, "He was out walking with the late Mr. Jones."
The other went for, "He was out walking with Mr. Jones, now dead."

Thoughts, please.
========================
Channain, Instead of "Whassup," I noted the use of " 'Tsup?" by Selma Blair in her short-lived TV comedy series (with Lex Luthor-to-be). But I've noticed that most folks have no idea what you've just said when this word is used in real life.
========================
Anyone notice the increase of apparent dyslexia with advancing age (over 30)? I find myself inverting letters as I type, with apparent increasing frequency. And omitting the last letter quite ofte.

..........Ruxton
[Male; editor by profession; cranky old fart by choice.]

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 11:02 AM

MANIACNUMBERONE

It's also a good thing that we aren't evaluating punctuation.

Quote:
I had an argument with a fellow (male) editor some years back, concerning the use of the term "late." Also this was very funny... "And omitting the last letter quite ofte."

LOL

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 11:06 AM

ManiacNumberOne

If you mean I ought to have inserted a comma before "late," you are incorrect.

..........Ruxton

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 11:43 AM

i DO aim to misbehave

Quote:
Originally posted by Ruxton:
Channain, Gotcha!
Your "...if it takes less keystrokes...."
Should be: "...if it takes fewer keystrokes...."

Anyone notice the increase of apparent dyslexia with advancing age (over 30)? I find myself inverting letters as I type, with apparent increasing frequency. And omitting the last letter quite often.

"Less" versus "fewer" might be why I'm not an editor anymore. A girl can twist her brain around it for only so long. I'm MUCH better at catching that kind of thing in other people's work; hence the pursuit of a degree in graphic design, not English or creative writing.

My fellow editors had a huge debate over whether it should be "over the last year" or "during the past year". "During" won, but by a teensy margin.

Regarding the 30-plus dyslexia, I am with you there! I canNOT type the third "n" in announcement to save my soul, especially in an e-mail. I don't know why, and I can't stop it. I did it just fine here, but my typing speed went WAY down.

T'sup sounds like an acronym for "To sup" as in "to have supper". Nope, still don't like it.

So, anybody in here doing beta reading for the fan fic writers in our happy little blue realm?

Fans come and fans go...but zealots are with you until the bitter black end.
I draw...therefore I am.
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 11:57 AM

MAUGWAI

Quote:
Originally posted by ManiacNumberOne:
It's fun to point out grammatical errors. If we were pointing out spelling errors too, I'd have a little to say about your initial post, maugwai.

-------------------------------------------
Inara: Who's winning?
Simon: I can't really tell, they don't seem to be playing by any civilized rules that I know.
-------------------------------------------

By all means, don't hold back. That's the point of the thread. What spelling error? Unless you're talking about my name, I'm not sure what else you could possibly mean.

"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 1:37 PM

Channain,
"T'sup sounds like an acronym for "To sup" as in "to have supper". Nope, still don't like it."
Ah! That's why, whenever I used "T'sup?" most people asked me, "T'son?" (i.e., What's on?)

I could never figure that out, 'til now.
--------------
re: "Over the past year," vs. "During...."
I suspect it's a regional preference.

I note with great grinding of teeth, almost everyone in the Buffy/Angel/Firefly 'verse pronounces "either" as though it were spelled "Ii-ther" (long 'i'). I have always pronounced it "eee-ther." Anyone else find this odd? Is it a Hollywood thing?

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 4:34 PM

i DO aim to misbehave

Quote:
Originally posted by Ruxton:
I note with great grinding of teeth, almost everyone in the Buffy/Angel/Firefly 'verse pronounces "either" as though it were spelled "Ii-ther" (long 'i'). I have always pronounced it "eee-ther." Anyone else find this odd? Is it a Hollywood thing?

I suspect it's an English thing, as in the Queen, not as in grammar. EYE-tha rather than EE-ther. Like THEE-a-tah and theadder.

dong ma?

Fans come and fans go...but zealots are with you until the bitter black end.
I draw...therefore I am.
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 5:48 PM

ZENCAT

Since you asked (axed) for thoughts... I don't see anything wrong with saying "the late Mr. Jones" but I wouldn't use "Mr. Jones, now dead." (I was taught never to say someone was DEAD, it's too disturbing.) "Mr. Jones, now deceased" works, though.

"Whassup" isn't even a word, dang it.

I've never heard anyone use "amn't" ever, ever. Awkward contraction. Have you ever noticed how awkward the word awkward is??

I haven't noticed increasing dyslexia so much as a tendency to insert extra vowels. I'll glance up at what I've typed and find extra "o"s strewn throughout. Oh, but a little dyslexia in consistently typing University as Unviersity.

Uh... topic... Firefly. Boy, I like that there grammar on Firefly. I especially like the litotes - affirming a thing by denying its opposite, as in Mal's "You ain't wrong." I especially like it because how often do I get to use the word "litotes"??

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 8:41 PM

Zencat, thanks for insight on "...now dead," etc. When the argument was ongoing, I voted with you for "the late Mr. Jones." The other guy thought it sounded like walking with a dead guy.
---------
Awk! It is awkward.
---------------------
On a new note, a few years ago everyone was using the single word "not" as a cutesy response, borrowed from that movie with Dana Carvey (The Church Lady) in it, the one with Mike Meyers. Yet Carvey used the word only twice in the movie, as I recall, and used it correctly. Louis L'Amour was fond of the same archaic construction, as in, "He liked it not." All Carvey did was delay the last word. Yet for years, one heard bozo after clown after dumbell trying to be cute by uttering that word out of context. (Yup, I've seen that chool moovy. Ain't I good! Not!)

Drove me nuts.
------------------------
Apropos of nothing, many think Sherlock Holmes smoked a calabash, or other bent pipe. But at the time Conan Doyle wrote, all pipes were dead straight. (Like billiards, Dublins, etc.) An actor (before Basil Rathbone) used a bent pipe in some performance in the 1920s or early 1930s, and then Rathbone used a calabash, and the die was cast.

Had to get that out of my system. Yes, it's late at night.

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 8:54 PM

Channain

But the use of Eye-tha (actually, they say Eye-ther) seems to be confined to Joss' universe.
And thanks for the improved phonetic spelling.

Ma.

...........Ruxton

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 10:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:
My fellow editors had a huge debate over whether it should be "over the last year" or "during the past year". "During" won, but by a teensy margin.

My thinking on this would be that it's context-dependent. If you're talking about the effect something has had over the period of the entire year (desperately trying to think of a useful example, but can't!) then it'd be 'over the last year', but if you're talking about something that's happened several times in the year then it'd be 'during the last year'

Of course, as with almost any discussion of grammar and the English language, I know what I'm trying to say but it's probably meaningless to everyone else! I have the same problem when people try to explain the difference between 'because of' and 'due to'...

There's a line from Buffy that helps in these situations: "I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'"

---
"I think the right place to start is to say, fair is fair. This is who we are. These are our numbers." Mr Willis of Ohio - The West Wing

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 10:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Channain:

So, anybody in here doing beta reading for the fan fic writers in our happy little blue realm?

Moving off the pedantry for a moment, it's been a while since I've been able to be a regular visitor to this board, but things are settling down a bit now. So, how does one volunteer to be picky about someone else's writing?

---
"I think the right place to start is to say, fair is fair. This is who we are. These are our numbers." Mr Willis of Ohio - The West Wing

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Thursday, October 28, 2004 12:16 AM

GROUNDED

Quote:
Originally posted by Zencat:
Oh, but a little dyslexia in consistently typing University as Unviersity.

That's not dylexia - that's attempting to type a word quickly that you're not used to typing.

& another thing. Personally I don't use & but if you find it easier then why not? I'm often in the situation where I'm communicating with several people at once, through different program windows, and it's not always possible, or indeed useful, to type out each word. Of course composing a forum post is another matter but I don't think 'net shorthand should be dismissed entirely.

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Thursday, October 28, 2004 1:13 AM

GOJIRO

Quote:
Originally posted by Ruxton:
Channain

But the use of Eye-tha (actually, they say Eye-ther) seems to be confined to Joss' universe.
And thanks for the improved phonetic spelling.

Ma.

...........Ruxton

I must live in Joss's universe, then!

(And it is "Joss's" not "Joss' " -- since we're talking about grammar and punctuation).

Actually, it's a regional thing. A lot of New Englanders say EYE-ther, especially the farther north you go.

While truly egregious spelling, punctuation, and grammar errors do tend to annoy me, I've come to accept it as just part of the territory ("But ya gotta know the TERRITORY! Whaddya talk, whaddya talk, whaddya talk, whaddya talk...").

The only thing that truly annoys me without fail is the people who ignore their shift keys. IE: "i am so pumped about this movie. joss is a god and my friend jane and i both love him to death." Come on, find the shift keys (conveniently located to the left of the Z key, as well as the right of the /? key). It makes it ever so easier to read your natterings, and the minimal extra effort it takes is well worth it.

For you hardcore linguists, I recommend Garner's A Dictionary of Modern American Usage. The introduction alone is worth the price of the book. Of course, if you're a truly hardcore linguist, you already own it.

gojiro

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Thursday, October 28, 2004 2:15 AM

SHEPPARD

Quote:
Originally posted by gojiro:
While truly egregious spelling, punctuation, and grammar errors do tend to annoy me, I've come to accept it as just part of the territory ("But ya gotta know the TERRITORY! Whaddya talk, whaddya talk, whaddya talk, whaddya talk...").

(LOL) Ever meet a fellow by the name of Hill?

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Thursday, October 28, 2004 2:39 AM

UNCHARTEDOUTLAW

Quote:
Originally posted by Zencat:
Personally I don't use & but if you find it easier then why not?

Should I say it? Eh, what the heck! This sentence totally confused me for about four reads and I don't think it's the fact that it's 5.30am, I tell you what! <--I've seen a show about a guy named Hill.

Anyway, I just got a bunch of essays from my 10th and 11th graders. If I find any nuggets, I'll anonymously (for them, not me) post them here.

-Taylor

Uncharted Outlaw!

My ship's shiny than your ship. Now deal with it!

See my Firefly Store: http://www.cafepress.com/NorCalRiviera

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Thursday, October 28, 2004 5:12 AM

SHINYHAPPYKLIN

There's a book called "Eats, Shoots & Leaves" that is on the best-sellers list now, and it is about the problems most people have with punctuation. I haven't read it, but want to. (hey, that's a preposition, isn't it?

)

My biggest pet peeves? missplaced possessive apostrophe's (<--like that) instead of a simple "s" or "es".

I want to throw things when I read emails from my students that are rife with "u" and "ur", "dunno", and other horrid artifacts that carry over to formal compositions from IM usage. They just make my skin crawl!

"We gotta go to that crappy town where I'M a hero..."
Shiny stuff for Browncoats at: http://www.cafepress.com/outtotheblack

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Thursday, October 28, 2004 7:21 AM

UNCHARTEDOUTLAW

There's also a book called English as a Second F*cking Language that's pretty darn funny!

-Taylor

The Uncharted Outlaw!
"I brought you some supper, but if you'd prefer a lecture, I've a few very catchy ones prepped...sin and hellfire... one has lepers."
See my Firefly Store: http://www.cafepress.com/NorCalRiviera

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Thursday, October 28, 2004 10:29 AM