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1 June 1940 Colville Diary

The second matter concerned evacuation in the event of invasion, or even before invasion. This had been raised in several forms. The Foreign Office had put forward a suggestion to prepare to evacuate the Royal Family, and also the Government, to “some part of the Overseas Empire, where the war would continue to be waged.” When [Desmond] Morton passed on this request to Churchill, the Prime Minister answered: “I believe we shall make them rue the day they try to invade our island. No such discussion can be permitted.”

At this same moment, the Director of the National Gallery, Kenneth Clark, suggested that the paintings in the National Gallery should be sent from London to Canada. Churchill was likewise against this suggestion, and emphatically so. “No,” he minuted, “bury them in caves and cellars. None must go. We are going to beat them.”

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But I do know this: It's a great quote, I wish someone had said it. Clearly, a lot of people who idolize Churchill and love the arts think it was really said.

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The fact that Germany was by far the most cultured and artistically sophisticated country in the world at this time did not get in the way of Spacey's fabrication.

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Originally posted by Hardware:
Wait... isn't acting a type of lying?

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
The REAL story ...

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
Who cares about Kevin Spacey? Last I checked he was an actor, and the only people who know less about politics than actors are politicians.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'll grant that Kevin may have unknowingly given false credit to WC. But the fact he sought out such a quote in the first place makes it all the more " hinky", imo.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
But the fact he sought out such a quote in the first place makes it all the more " hinky", imo.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:
If only we could have those kinds of conversations instead of this one.

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Such as, "It turns out the quote is likely an artifact of the popular imagination, and not anything that Churchill actually said. But the real question is this: Do public dollars need to go to support the arts? There seems to be a common perception amongst some that if the arts are not actively supported by government, then they will dry up and blow away. I can't say I agree. I think the pursuit of artistic expression is innate to human beings, and not connected to or reliant on government support. What do you think?"

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
No, another double fail on your part.

There aren't ANY of ' my words' w/ regard to the Huckabee issue, as I never commented on it. Also, that has nothing what so ever to do w/ the made up quote Kevin went LOOKING for, and alas..found! Imagine his surprise!




" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Originally posted by kpo:
So my provocative conclusion is that the free market is a bad decider of what constitutes good art/cultural treasure, and an elitist governmental body/panel does a much better job.

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Originally posted by Bytemite:
Who cares about Kevin Spacey? Last I checked he was an actor, and the only people who know less about politics than actors are politicians.

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Originally posted by AnthonyT:

The truth is that this thread has nothing to do with Spacey or Churchill. It is instead a device to score political points for a point of view in opposition to a political party.

It boils down neatly to this: "Libtards Lie, News at Eleven."

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And but for the sake of making that statement, this thread would not exist here. It would instead exist in some obscure Historical debate forum. "Was Spacey Mistaken?" it might be called. Or "What is the origin of this fable?"

I wish at least that this had been framed in a less antagonistic fashion. One actually aimed at reasonable discussion.

Such as, "It turns out the quote is likely an artifact of the popular imagination, and not anything that Churchill actually said. But the real question is this: Do public dollars need to go to support the arts? There seems to be a common perception amongst some that if the arts are not actively supported by government, then they will dry up and blow away. I can't say I agree. I think the pursuit of artistic expression is innate to human beings, and not connected to or reliant on government support. What do you think?"

If only we could have those kinds of conversations instead of this one.

--Anthony

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Originally posted by Storymark:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
No, another double fail on your part.

There aren't ANY of ' my words' w/ regard to the Huckabee issue, as I never commented on it. Also, that has nothing what so ever to do w/ the made up quote Kevin went LOOKING for, and alas..found! Imagine his surprise!


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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So, a presidential candidate isn't responsible for his words or mistakes, even when misquoting himself...

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But an ACTOR gets a quote wrong, and he's a liar.

God, you zealots are a funny breed.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
My point was that not only did Spacey come up w/ a phony quote, but he was then treated with the most accepting sort of deference and agreement by Matthews. It falls in line with what both WANT to be true, and instead of dealing in fact, they instead make up their own little version, repeat it, put it out in the ethos, and folks blindly accept it, and move on.

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I like the free market

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Except I don't think the "elitist governmental body/panel" has to you know, government. It could be a scholarly panel, funded by voluntary contributions, like a private museum gets funding from voluntary contributors. The panel itself could itself be the result of voluteered hours. It doesn't NEED to be funded at gunpoint (by involuntary taxpayer funds).

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Public dollars don't make or break art. They simply make a wider variety accessible to the unwashed masses.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Pot, meet Kettle.

-F

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Sure, but casting such pearls before you, is a waste of time.

-F

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

My point was that not only did Spacey come up w/ a phony quote, but he was then treated with the most accepting sort of deference and agreement by Matthews. It falls in line with what both WANT to be true, and instead of dealing in fact, they instead make up their own little version, repeat it, put it out in the ethos, and folks blindly accept it, and move on.

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Originally posted by kpo:
Yep, but my concern is not for the health of art, but the health of society. I think a society whose cultural treasures are easily accessible to everyone is healthier: more egalitarian, meritocratic and cohesive. Cultured, informed citizens rather than unwashed masses.

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Originally posted by Storymark:

You mean, like the little version of reality that Huck presented, completely falsely, and made up a BS excuse for, which also turned out to be untrue?

Yeah, cuz only liberals lie.

You're such a lock stepping dimwit. It's adorable."

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Sure, but casting such pearls before you, is a waste of time.

-F

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So, this is now your thing, huh? Make inane, baseless comments or claims, and then run away, w/ out even the decency to bother to explain?

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My point was that not only did Spacey come up w/ a phony quote, but he was then treated with the most accepting sort of deference and agreement by Matthews. It falls in line with what both WANT to be true, and instead of dealing in fact, they instead make up their own little version, repeat it, put it out in the ethos, and folks blindly accept it, and move on.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

And look how well it works. You actually BELIEVE the yellowcake lie!

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

The Phoenix lights, meaning the UFO configuration which many saw and videotaped ?

That is a bit of a mystery, as I recall.

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Originally posted by OPPYH:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

The Phoenix lights, meaning the UFO configuration which many saw and videotaped ?

That is a bit of a mystery, as I recall.

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Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. Better to discuss things we can't answer and speculate. Did you know they Appeared in 1997, and 2007 over Phoenix? Over 10,000 witnesses. Government denied it saying they were military flares. A group of Hospice workers noted that the object hovered over their balcony eerily silent. No engine noise. They estimated the object(or ship) to be massive.

Now, what were you saying about Kevin Spacey?

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Originally posted by Niki2:

And there you have it. Raptor continues on with his partisan, mixed-up jabberwocking and personal insults. Totally a non-thread.

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