humanity's health by 1kiki

Beir bua agus beannacht

When I was a little girl I got sick a lot. If I'd have lived in the past I would have died from those things and it would have been nature's way of getting rid of me so I didn't breed, because I'm a genetic disaster and have no business making babies. We live now adays, thank goodness for me but not so good for the collective gene pool. People who wouldn't have made it to adulthood are doing just that and making more babies with problems. Thus humanity isn't what it was. I'm taking myself out of the equasion by getting fixed so I don't perpetuate my genetic line. Plus I don't have enough emotional stammina to raise kids so I have no business making them.

People don't like this kind of talk, and I'm not suggesting we don't look after folk right so they die if they're not the best candidates for procreation, I'd never say such a thing. We live in a society where we need to look after each other, all people, no matter what is different about them. But because we do those good things it does cause genetic oopses a lot more. Double edged sword, but humanity, as in caring and kindness and morality, is more important and I'd never suggest we should revert to bad behavior of our ancestors, even if it would make a stronger species, we know better and thus we are responsable.

I have Kathy Bates on speed dial, mwa ha ha ha (in exaggeratedly evil voice)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Monday, July 2, 2012 9:01 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I think there's more to it than genetics, but I'm personally leaning toward thinking genetics is one part of the picture.

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

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Monday, July 2, 2012 9:09 AM

Beir bua agus beannacht

I agree Kiki, genetics is part of the equasion but environment, the chemicals we put into the world is also very bad for our bodies and have lasting effects generationally.

I have Kathy Bates on speed dial, mwa ha ha ha (in exaggeratedly evil voice)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Monday, July 2, 2012 11:30 AM

BYTEMITE

...I think people are taking Dawkins' neo-Lamarckian ideas a little too far. Of course we can do what the San bushmen do, that's what people who have trained themselves to run marathons have done. The only difference is, the people running marathons have to actively pursue that, while with the bushmen its an everyday part of their lives.

A high rate of base mutations is nature working as intended. While there's indications some of these mutations (a "substantial" fraction) cause disorders, I suspect most are going to be in the garbage parts of our DNA by sheer random chance. I don't really see the problem here.

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Monday, July 2, 2012 11:44 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Folks would be amazed at just how much they can endure when it comes to survival.

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, July 2, 2012 4:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I don't really see the problem here.

I agree. I have RA, my grandpa had RA, and before they even knew what it was, his aunt had "chronic ills"...He was born in the twentys, and she in the late 1800's. He worked his ass off, according to my gran- more than any man she ever met. His parents were sickly people, I forget what, so he was the one that raised a family, worked a full time job, planted gardens, in addition to running his parents farm. He was one of those guys that fed half the neighborhood... and died plowing snow from the rest of it...
If being a hard worker and eating right were all there is to a long healthy life and great DNA, he would still be here now. He's not. Like me, he got sick in his twenties.. That is not a co-incidence. Our DNA was fubared from the start or mutated at some point in history.
Taking a dip in thalidomide or licking an old broken thermometer will mess up your DNA. But people had messed up DNA long before we even really HAD chemicals.(OR NANOPARTICLES) Unless you wanna blame Native Americans for cooking their dinner

The U.S. four hundred years ago was as good as it will ever get...I'm to guess there were NO sick Native Americans four hundred years ago?? I don't think so, Tim...

WE ...ARE CHAOS. Perfection doesn't exist. Trying to find the scapegoat for why we break is- at best- inefficient. Trying to FIX the problems...only slightly more tangible... but I'll take it...

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Tuesday, July 3, 2012 12:33 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Thanks kiki, an interesting set of snippets.

I pretty much agree with what you are saying.

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Tuesday, July 3, 2012 5:46 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Of course we can do what the San bushmen do, that's what people who have trained themselves to run marathons have done."

For 8 hours in 100F+ heat? Having a large percentage of your population able to do that rather than a select few?
Or, if that's not convincingly remarkable, let me put it this way - a San Bushman can run an eland to death from exhaustion.

"... I suspect most are going to be in the garbage parts of our DNA ..."

They didn’t test random DNA, they tested genes.

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

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Tuesday, July 3, 2012 9:45 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I have to say aside from 6ix and PN I don't think I could find a more scrambly post. It's difficult to even figure out which point you're trying to make to be able to discuss it. You seem to think that looking back 2 generations is meaningful compared to the 40,000 year (or 2,000 generation) timeframe of the one study. You seem to think that I'm claiming Indians never died of disease, when in fact what I'm claiming is that many died young. You seem to think that nanoparticles like that from fires somehow didn’t affect Indians, or that the sheer amount and variety of toxic substances we're exposed to today is just like it was 100, or 1,000 or 100,000 years ago.

But you can't mean any of that b/c that's just nonsense.

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I don't really see the problem here.

I agree. I have RA, my grandpa had RA, and before they even knew what it was, his aunt had "chronic ills"...He was born in the twentys, and she in the late 1800's. He worked his ass off, according to my gran- more than any man she ever met. His parents were sickly people, I forget what, so he was the one that raised a family, worked a full time job, planted gardens, in addition to running his parents farm. He was one of those guys that fed half the neighborhood... and died plowing snow from the rest of it...
If being a hard worker and eating right were all there is to a long healthy life and great DNA, he would still be here now. He's not. Like me, he got sick in his twenties.. That is not a co-incidence. Our DNA was fubared from the start or mutated at some point in history.
Taking a dip in thalidomide or licking an old broken thermometer will mess up your DNA. But people had messed up DNA long before we even really HAD chemicals.(OR NANOPARTICLES) Unless you wanna blame Native Americans for cooking their dinner The U.S. four hundred years ago was as good as it will ever get...I'm to guess there were NO sick Native Americans four hundred years ago?? I don't think so, Tim...

WE ...ARE CHAOS. Perfection doesn't exist. Trying to find the scapegoat for why we break is- at best- inefficient. Trying to FIX the problems...only slightly more tangible... but I'll take it...

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

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Wednesday, July 4, 2012 3:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
You seem to think that looking back 2 generations is meaningful compared to the 40,000 year (or 2,000 generation) timeframe of the one study. You seem to think that I'm claiming Indians never died of disease, when in fact what I'm claiming is that many died young. You seem to think that nanoparticles like that from fires somehow didn’t affect Indians,

I'm sorry you can't keep up

I was going 4 generations back, you missed a few...

The gist of the article is that what tribespeople do is helpful in weeding out terminal abberations in genetic structure. I'm trying though metaphor to explain that "life finds a way" no matter what people do and that I don't think there is a shred of proof that our ancestors were ANY genetically heartier than we are. Or any worse, really.

Oh, and coming from someone who HAS RA...this nanoparticle causitive is COMPLETE CRAP. RA is caused by immune system reactions to infection and very small holes in the digestive system. I'm sure things in the envirnment don't make it better, but they sure ain't causing it, either. Don't belive everything you read...

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Wednesday, July 4, 2012 4:33 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

4 generations, 2 generations - yeah, I can see how your small sample set and an extra 2 whole generations competes with over 14,000 people and 2,000 generations in terms of data.

"I don't think there is a shred of proof that our ancestors were ANY genetically heartier than we are." Except those DNA studies that show a whole host of rare and recent genetic variants. Do you mean besides that?

"RA is caused by immune system reactions to infection and very small holes in the digestive system." Or maybe it's caused by genetics b/c it runs in your family! Well, OK that settles it then! One way or maybe the other! The world will thank you when you've finally published the answer, I'm sure.

"Don't belive everything you read..." You mean like didn't read this little gem somewhere and then believe it "RA is caused by immune system reactions to infection and very small holes in the digestive system"?

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

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Wednesday, July 4, 2012 10:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Except those DNA studies that show a whole host of rare and recent genetic variants. Do you mean besides that?

Or maybe it's caused by genetics b/c it runs in your family! Well, OK that settles it then! One way or maybe the other! The world will thank you when you've finally published the answer, I'm sure.

RECENT GENETIC VARIANTS?? Were they doing DNA a thousand years ago?? Whatever DNA they do manage to dig up is going to be compromised, so I don't see what they would have to compare today's to...

I have RA. It can be in the form of a dormant gene that is activated by certain things, and yes, I have been researching it for 10 years. I had a tooth abcess, pre-ecclampsia, and then a gallbladder removed within three years, all of which are known to trigger RA. I'm actually fairly certain I was showing symptoms as a child, but no one noticed. I also have an aunt(by marraige) who has it and they discoverd she had small holes in her digestive system and once they removed the diseased section, she felt much much better. I believe there to be several different forms of RA, but have to way to prove it. Also, when we moved here there was NO air filtration system AT ALL in our house, and I can say that I feel since we have one now that there is no difference in my RA.

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Wednesday, July 4, 2012 11:19 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"RECENT GENETIC VARIANTS??"

You have to remember there are populations of people who have never moved out of Africa, never left the hunter-gatherer economy, never experienced a dramatic population increase, never had the benefit of modernity and its power to keep people alive. They never lived in the environment that is seen as the reason for the increased prevalence of rare genetic changes. It's not that they don't experience mutations (though since oxygen free radicals seem to be a cause they could possibly have reduced mutation rates), but that their mutations are constantly pruned by a demanding environment.

It's exactly equivalent to bacteria. The larger the colony, the more the genetic variation. The less the selective pressure, the higher the prevalence.

BTW, there is definite change in DNA even since the rise of agriculture and pastoralism, which can been seen in difference between agricultural/ pastoral populations and non-agricultural/ pastoral ones. We whites have smaller tooth size than native populations, reduced tendencies to diabetes, and tolerance to lactose beyond childhood.

"I have been researching it for 10 years." And have credited what you have read. It's not like you disbelieve everything you read, or think that other people should, too. It comes down to what things that you read do you trust.

"... there was NO air filtration system AT ALL in our house, and I can say that I feel since we have one now that there is no difference in my RA."

These particles are ultra-fine. Smaller than small. Cells, which are so good at keeping really REALLY small things out like sodium ions or glucose molecules or amino acids can't keep these particles out at all. They pass right into cells as if they had no cell membrane at all. And then they stick around due to physico-chemical bonding power. Here's an example:

(These aren't inorganic carbon ultrafine particles like you get from high temperature combustion. I did attend a lecture series on them and how they penetrate the cell a number of years ago. The photos were quite impressive.)

Even a really good air filter like a medical grade HEPA, which will remove allergens and even some viruses (and that's a good thing!), can't touch these particles.

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

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Wednesday, July 4, 2012 6:48 PM

I go by what I feel. You can make empirical data say whatever you want these days and somebody will pay for it and publish it.

Even of there were nanoparticles and they were causing something, can't do anything about it. Can't live in a bubble, not gonna be Michael Jackson about it...

For the record, there's nothing about humanity that isn't some kind of freaky mutation

Cut, print....

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Wednesday, July 4, 2012 8:44 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

What's RA?

I think any response that says "I trust my gut over scientific theory" must kind of end a debate, coz there is nowhere else to go.

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Thursday, July 5, 2012 8:03 AM

'Cuz "scientists" are never ever wrong and never have their own agendas, right?
For the record, I could back up what I'm saying with dozens of articles, the ones that make sense to me...but then I don't really care who believes me and who don't.

Here's a nicely timed article that illustrates my point... http://finance.yahoo.com/news/dr-drew-paid-glaxo-225700871.html

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Thursday, July 5, 2012 9:16 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Y'all right remember that I traded a large amount of samples for a discount off the deductible soon after that near fatal run-in with illness, yes ?
Mind you, part of why they wanted em was cause of my damn-near-miraculous resistance to illness or injury, and the thought of being able to help other folks also influenced my decision.

Well, there's something to the notion of mountain-folk DNA having that tendancy, science has shown promising evidence in this regard, but one recent bit of lore on this is very amusing - you know who ELSE shares a couple of the genetic invicibility strings ?
Ozzy Ozbourne.
http://science.discovery.com/stories/week/ozzy-osbourne.html
(Yanno, I wouldn't be surprised if we were distantly related...)

Quote:
"Sequencing and analysing individuals with extreme medical histories provides the greatest potential scientific value," Nathan Pearson told the Times. He is director of research at Knome, a Massachusetts company that will map the singer's genome using a blood sample.

The way cool thing about this is that - as I understand it, which isn't bloody much since my knowledge of this stuff is in a VERY limited field (regarding early trauma and abuse) regarding chem/bio stuff, apparently *IF* they can isolate exactly what little piece it is that promotes the near-invicibility, they can maybe create/implant it in others via RNA or something, and one doc mentioned this could potentially if not cure, would at least severely mitigate some stuff like MS and whatnot, which is downright awesome.

Yeah verily, we all know that DARPA will jack a copy to try to make super-soldiers with, but given their usual efficiency and effectiveness I ain't much concerned - and frankly, I think the idea of being able to assist folk is well worth putting up with whatever screwery elsewise might come of it.

One other bizarre thing (which is gonna require more samples) is the possibility I might be a Chimera, which explains much in that IF there's two distinct sets, as they think there might be, that also might explain a little bit about things cause I presume that's a bit like having autonomous backup systems - I dunno, my science knowhow is really lacking in this, but it's damn fascinating anyways.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_%28genetics%29#Human_chimeras

-Frem

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Thursday, July 5, 2012 11:28 AM

Can I jack a copy, I've had pneumonia all week, and I'd really like for THAT to stop

My lifetime total of infections...

2 bladder
9 UTIs
30+ sinus infections, sometimes multiple sinuses, the first starting at 3 days old...
2 Pneumonia
2 eye infections
had my tonsils taken out because of chronic strep
4 ear infections
2 severe reactions to poison leaves
I have been on anti-biotics or steroids at least once or twice a year for my entire life. I'm only 32... I don't get it...

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Thursday, July 5, 2012 11:49 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
'Cuz "scientists" are never ever wrong and never have their own agendas, right?
For the record, I could back up what I'm saying with dozens of articles, the ones that make sense to me...but then I don't really care who believes me and who don't.

Here's a nicely timed article that illustrates my point... http://finance.yahoo.com/news/dr-drew-paid-glaxo-225700871.html

There is a difference between viewing empirical data critically and throwing the whole lot out in favour of gut reaction.

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Thursday, July 5, 2012 4:09 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

That would be so cool if you're a chimera Frem.

Pneumonia is yucky, I hope you get better soon. Chances are you wouldn't have made it through childhood either with all those infections. We're lucky we live now adays I guess.

I have Kathy Bates on speed dial, mwa ha ha ha (in exaggeratedly evil voice)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Thursday, July 5, 2012 4:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
We're lucky we live now adays I guess.

Yeah, that's all I can think about, is how "lucky" I am to feel this crappy every damn day. I'd like to find the nearest God and just....Hug him to death....

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Friday, July 6, 2012 12:32 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Ayeh, not to mention the wonderful effect constant pain and misery has on a persons personality - the few times a doc has issued pain meds, my persona apparently changes radically for the better, at least in THEIR opinion, myself I am not so sure that's "better"...

One of em recently suggested medical marijuana, since the DEA has made pain scripts all but impossible, but firstoff I dun wanna get caught in the crossfire by the locality and sheriff clayton constantly changin the rules in the middle of the game and busting people, or just busting them cause THEY don't like it and fuck what the law says (he admitted this, mind you!), which'd blackball me from running a security biz don't ya know.

Beyond that, seriously, I dun hafta tell you just how bad/wacked out it would look to have the guy in charge of keepin public order around here smokin a phattie - REALLY?!
Ummm, no.

-Frem

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Friday, July 6, 2012 4:50 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

C'mon Frem... which looks worse? Smoking a phattie or running around on one artificial leg???

Oh, yeah man, I can see it now... Frem, in some pimp getup, wreathed in haze... "No, no... cover THAT building. Wha??? "

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Friday, July 6, 2012 4:57 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
I might be a Chimera

Hello,

Based on my observations in virtual combat simulators, I'm fairly certain that you have genetic material from both the 'BADASS' and 'MOTHERFUCKER' genetic lines. ;-)

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Friday, July 6, 2012 7:08 PM

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Monday, July 9, 2012 1:36 PM

Beir bua agus beannacht

I'm sorry things are so hard for you Wish. Sometimes I feel that way too. I guess I was just having a good day that day I wrote that.

Frem, if you lived in Portland here you'd be able to use medical marijuana easy. Just because you use it doesn't mean you'll be stoned all night at work, :)

I have Kathy Bates on speed dial, mwa ha ha ha (in exaggeratedly evil voice)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Monday, July 9, 2012 1:49 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Quote:
I might be a Chimera

Hello,

Based on my observations in virtual combat simulators, I'm fairly certain that you have genetic material from both the 'BADASS' and 'MOTHERFUCKER' genetic lines. ;-)

--Anthony

Approval!

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Monday, July 9, 2012 4:23 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I dunno about the former, but I'll readily admit to the latter!

-F

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Monday, July 9, 2012 6:56 PM