Quote:

---

Originally posted by Riverlove:
Clear out ISIS so Assad's forces can gas whoever's left. Oh yeah, great news!

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
What a dupe.

-----------
I'll only respond to on-topic posts.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kpo:
It's a sign that Assad and Russia's suppression of the revolution is going well - that they're actually bothering to fight ISIS.

---

Quote:

---

This is what that suppression looks like: shelling of rebel-held towns.

---

Quote:

---

Amnesty Says U.S.-Led Coalition May Have Committed War Crimes In Mosul

---

Quote:

---

The massacre of Mosul: 40,000 feared dead in battle to take back city from Isis as scale of civilian casualties revealed

---

Quote:

---

But this is so obvious that it goes without saying. Who ever said anything different? I smell a lie.

---

Quote:

---

Journalist Interrogated, Fired For Story Linking CIA And Syria Weapons Flights

A months-long investigation which tracked and exposed a massive covert weapons shipment network to terror groups in Syria via diplomatic flights originating in the Caucuses and Eastern Europe under the watch of the CIA and other intelligence agencies has resulted in the interrogation and firing of the Bulgarian journalist who first broke the story. This comes as the original report is finally breaking into mainstream international coverage.

Investigative reporter Dilyana Gaytandzhieva authored a bombshell report for Trud Newspaper, based in Sofia, Bulgaria, which found that an Azerbaijan state airline company was regularly transporting tons of weaponry to Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates (UAE), and Turkey under diplomatic cover as part of the CIA covert program to supply anti-Assad fighters in Syria. Those weapons, Gaytandzhieva found, ended up in the hands of ISIS and al-Qaeda terrorists in Iraq and Syria.

---

Quote:

---

I wonder if this will affect Assad's oil & gas deals with ISIS? - KPO

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Riverlove:
Clear out ISIS so Assad's forces can gas whoever's left. Oh yeah, great news!

---

What a dupe.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It seems to me that G, KPO, THUGR, and RIVERLOVE have a soft spot in their hearts for ISIS.

---

Quote:

---

There is a report, I don't know how credible, that the USA airlifted some 20 ISIS commanders out of Deir Ezzor before it's total liberation by the SAA.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Is KPO arguing that Trump should repeat Obama's giving Mosul back to ISIS,

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kpo:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Riverlove:
Clear out ISIS so Assad's forces can gas whoever's left. Oh yeah, great news!

---

What a dupe.

---

Oh what great timing. A day after Siggy posted this, the UN released its report on the Khan Shaykhun gas attacks and concluded:

1. Yes, Assad did it

Now let's all wait for Siggy to apologise for being (rudely and aggressively) wrong, again.

---

Quote:

---

ODS - Sédoc

Official Documents System of the United Nations
Système de diffusion électronique des documents de l'ONU


Official Document System

There is an end-user problem. If you have reached this site from a web link,
- Through your internet options, adjust your privacy settings to allow cookies or
- Check your security settings and make sure this site has not been blocked or
- You are probably using a very slow link that may not work well with this application.
Otherwise you have reached this site through unauthorized means.

---

Quote:

---

The Commission has not, however, found any evidence to support the claims that HTS or armed groups had a weapons depot in the area ... Satellite imagery shows damage to structure at a nearby grain silo ... though the silo and a nearby bakery were empty.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kpo:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It seems to me that G, KPO, THUGR, and RIVERLOVE have a soft spot in their hearts for ISIS.

---

God, here we go...

---

Quote:

---

It seems to me that G, KPO, THUGR, and RIVERLOVE have a soft spot in their hearts for ISIS. - SIGNY

God, here we go...
I'm included in a Ziggy rant against you and G? A bona fide WTF moment indeed! - RL

---

Quote:

---

Quote:
The Commission has not, however, found any evidence to support the claims that HTS or armed groups had a weapons depot in the area ...

Sig - What, jihadists can't use empty grain silos, bakeries, and nearby "structures" as arms depots?

---

Quote:

---

US pulls back surveillance on ISIS convoy at Russian request


Surveillance aircraft that were monitoring an Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS) convoy stuck in the desert in eastern Syria have left the area at the request of Russian officials, the U.S.-led coalition said Friday.

“To ensure safe de-confliction of efforts to defeat ISIS, coalition surveillance aircraft departed the adjacent airspace at the request of Russian officials during their assault on Dawyr Az Zawyr,” the coalition said in a statement.

ISIS fighters and their family members have been stranded on eleven buses in the desert for more than a week.

The convoy showdown began last month, when ISIS struck a deal with the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah — a chief ally of the Syrian government — for safe passage from an area near the Syrian border with Lebanon to ISIS-held territory in eastern Syria bordering Iraq. To get there, the original 17-bus convoy planned to travel through Syrian government-controlled territory.

The U.S.-led coalition, intent on making sure the convoy did not make it to the Iraqi border and link up with other ISIS fighters, cratered the road and destroyed a bridge with airstrikes. That forced six buses to turn back to Palmyra, a Syrian government-controlled city, and stranded the remaining 11.

---

Quote:

---

]Originally posted by kpo:
An interesting subplot in the Deir al-Zour assault:

Quote:

---

US pulls back surveillance on ISIS convoy at Russian request

---

---

Quote:

---

]The Commission is gravely concerned about the impact of international coalition air strikes on civilians. In Al-Jinah, Aleppo, forces of the United States of America failed to take all feasible precautions to protect civilians and civilian objects when attacking a mosque, in violation of international humanitarian law. In Ar-Raqqah, the ongoing Syrian Democratic Forces and international coalition offensive to repel ISIL has displaced over 190,000 persons, and coalition air strikes have reportedly resulted in significant numbers of civilians killed and injured. Investigations are ongoing.

---

Quote:

---

The Commission notes that two individuals interviewed by the OPCW claimed that on the morning of 4 April the early warning system did not issue warnings until 11 to 11.30 am, and that no aircraft
were observed until that time.

---

Quote:

---

Eyewitnesses explained seeing a plane over Khan Shaykhun at around 6.45 am, and numerous interviewees recalled hearing messages from the early warning system 20 minutes prior to the strikes. As further examined below (paras. 17 -18), 11:30 am was the time when the al-Rahma medical point in Khan Shaykhun was attacked by airstrikes including cluster incendiary munitions, though not chemical weapons. In the span of a few minutes, the aircraft, identified by interviewees as a Su-22, made two passes over the town and dropped four bombs. ... Satellite imagery, photographs, and video footage corroborate witness accounts that air delivered munitions hit the impact points of the four bombs

---

Quote:

---

Breaking News of Saudi Crown Prince's "Secret" Visit To Israel Brings Embassy Scramble

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Because, yanno, unlike Russia, the USA and it's coalition "partners" have never been invited into Syria, which is still a sovereign nation despite the USA's best efforts to the contrary.

But hey, what's a little international law to the USA and it's supporters, who somehow believe that they can bomb and destroy nations at will???

---

Quote:

---

Thanks for the link.

There are a few reasons why I wanted to see the whole document

---

Quote:

---

Well Russia has been waging war in the Donbas region of Ukraine for 3 years now ...

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 1kiki:

Quote:

---

Well Russia has been waging war in the Donbas region of Ukraine for 3 years now ...

---

Do you mean that supposed 'invasion' you never found evidence for?

Whatever.

---

Quote:

---

LAVROV: I have read and heard much criticism that we should not have got involved into the conflicts in Donbass and in Syria. But you should probably look at each given nation comprehensively...

...

Would it be acceptable for Russia, considering its international standing, to keep mum and recognise the coup in Ukraine, and to leave Russians and Russian speakers in Ukraine in the lurch after the first order issued by the organisers of the anti-constitutional armed revolt, which was supported by their foreign sponsors, banned many things that were connected with the Russian language? Should we have kept silent when they discriminated against the Russian language and announced that Russians must be kicked out of Crimea because they would never think like Ukrainians? But it does not matter now. Had we not done what we did, we would have betrayed our civilisation which our forefathers developed over centuries...

---

Quote:

---

Well Russia has been waging war in the Donbas region of Ukraine for 3 years now, in a war that has killed thousands

---

Quote:

---

in complete defiance of Ukraine's national sovereignty

---

Quote:

---

I have read and heard much criticism that we should not have got involved into the conflicts in Donbass and in Syria. But you should probably look at each given nation comprehensively. - Lavrov

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You will note that it was not "Russia" that killed "thousands", but the indiscriminate shelling of civilian centers by Kiev...

---

Quote:

---

Quote:
in complete defiance of Ukraine's national sovereignty
Which Russia hopes to restore through the Minsk Protocol

---

Quote:

---

KPO, are you subtly backing away from your long-promoted talking point that Russia "invaded" Ukraine?

---

Quote:

---

War in Donbass: 3,600 Civilians Killed by Ukrainian Forces and Neo-Nazi Militia since Minsk II Agreement

According to figures obtained from the Donetsk People’s Republic (DPR) authorities, since the February 2015 Minsk II agreement over 3,600 civilians have died in the republic due to shelling, sniper and other attacks by the Armed Forces of Ukraine ...

As the neighbouring Luhansk People’s Republic (LPR) has also experienced similar military strikes and civilian casualties, a very rough estimate would suggest that at least 6,000 civilians have died in strikes by Ukrainian forces on the Donbass republics since Minsk II.

Obtaining accurate figures for casualties in the war in eastern Ukraine is extremely difficult due to the unstable and insecure situation on the ground, and the fact that the conflict is highly politicised and controversial not only locally, but across Europe and globally.

On 3 August the UN assistant secretary-general for political affairs Tayé-Brook Zerihoun reported to the UN Security Council that the total number of conflict-related casualties since the Ukrainian government launched its ‘Anti-Terrorist Operation’ in April 2014 was 30,729, including 9,333 killed and 21,396 injured.

But the report provides no breakdown of where the casualties have occurred other than “in the conflict area”, and there is no indication of which side was responsible.

According to the latest figures from the UN Human Rights Office and the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, from February 2015 to June 2016 261 civilians were killed in the conflict on both sides – far fewer than the DPR’s figures would suggest.

However, the UNHRO stresses that its figures are a “conservative estimate of the OHCHR based on available data” which are “incomplete due to gaps in coverage of certain geographic areas and time periods, and due to overall under-reporting”.

In February 2015, press reports quoted claims from the German BND intelligence service that 50,000 civilians and servicemen people had died in the Ukraine conflict, almost 10 times than figures given by Ukrainian president Petro Poroshkenko only days before, which said 1,200 Ukrainian soldiers and 5,400 civilians had died.

---

Quote:

---

Russia started this war .... KPO

---

Quote:

---

"Invasion", "hybrid war" etc - I don't care much about the terminology... KPO

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

---

War in Donbass: 3,600 Civilians Killed by Ukrainian Forces and Neo-Nazi Militia since Minsk II Agreement

---

---

Quote:

---

So, is this the last that we hear from you about the so-called Russian "invasion" of Ukraine?

---

Quote:

---

CIVILIAN VICTIMS OF SHELLING BY KIEV FORCES

---

Quote:

---

Time to stop wasting so much time on you.

---

Quote:

---

The topic of the thread was Syria, not Ukraine.

---

Quote:

---

War in Donbass: 3,600 Civilians Killed by Ukrainian Forces and Neo-Nazi Militia since Minsk II Agreement - SIGNY

"Off-Guardian" - one of your pro-Russia blogs - KPO

---

Quote:

---

So, is this the last that we hear from you about the so-called Russian "invasion" of Ukraine?- SIGNY

The only people obsessed with the terminology are you and kiki. Contrary to your nonsense about this being one of my "talking points" I don't typically refer to the conflict as a Russian "invasion" - although one can always make the argument for that word when one country sends its military into another country and takes land by force.- KPO

---

Quote:

---

CIVILIAN VICTIMS OF SHELLING BY KIEV FORCES - SIGNY

No links, just graphic pictures. LOL that you think that's a slamdunk. Typical Siggy weak-ass evidencing. And even if you had bothered to evidence your claim, it doesn't even counter my point that the most egregious examples of killing of civilians has been done by the pro-Russian separatists. You know, the ones you are saying are "the good guys".- KPO

---

Quote:

---

Time to stop wasting so much time on you.- SIGNY
Smart, to throw in the towel so quickly.- KPO

---

Quote:

---

The topic of the thread was Syria, not Ukraine.- SIGNY

Yes, but when you lambasted the USA's violation of Syrian sovereignty (by bombing ISIS)

---

Quote:

---

I couldn't resist throwing your own hypocrisy in your face, as someone who cheerleads Russian violation of Ukrainian sovereignty.- KPO

---

Quote:

---

Russia started this war .... KPO
Cites and links for this bullshit, please?- SIGNY

---

Quote:

---

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

---

Quote:

---

Bombshell Report Catches Pentagon Falsifying Paperwork For Weapons Transfers To Syrian [so-called] Rebels

A new bombshell joint report issued by two international weapons monitoring groups Tuesday confirms that the Pentagon continues to ship record breaking amounts of weaponry into Syria and that the Department of Defense is scrubbing its own paper trail.

On Tuesday the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project (OCCRP) and the Balkan Investigative Reporting Network (BIRN) produced conclusive evidence that not only is the Pentagon currently involved in shipping up to $2.2 billion worth of weapons from a shady network of private dealers to allied partners in Syria - mostly old Soviet weaponry - but is actually manipulating paperwork such as end-user certificates, presumably in order to hide US involvement.

The OCCRP and BIRN published internal US defense procurement files after an extensive investigation which found that the Pentagon is running a massive weapons trafficking pipeline which originates in the Balkans and Caucuses, and ends in Syria and Iraq. The program is ostensibly part of the US train, equip, and assist campaign for the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF, a coalition of YPG/J and Arab FSA groups operating primarily in Syria's east). The arms transfers are massive and the program looks to continue for years. According to Foreign Policy's (FP) coverage of the report:

The Department of Defense has budgeted $584 million specifically for this Syrian operation for the financial years 2017 and 2018, and has earmarked another $900 million of spending on Soviet-style munitions between now and 2022. The total, $2.2 billion, likely understates the flow of weapons to Syrian rebels in the coming years.

But perhaps more shocking is the following admission that Pentagon suppliers have links with known criminal networks, also from FP:

According to the report, many of the weapons suppliers — primarily in Eastern Europe but also in the former Soviet republics, including Kazakhstan, Georgia, and Ukraine — have both links to organized crime throughout Eastern Europe and spotty business records.

The sheer amount of material necessary for the Pentagon program — one ammunition factory announced it planned to hire 1,000 new employees in 2016 to help cope with the demand — has reportedly stretched suppliers to the limit, forcing the Defense Department to relax standards on the materials it’s willing to accept.

It is likely that the organized crime association is the reason why the Pentagon has sought to alter its records. In addition, the sheer volume of weaponry continuing to ship to the Syrian battlefield and other parts of the Middle East means inevitable proliferation among unsavory terror groups - a phenomenon which has already been exhaustively documented in connection with the now reportedly closed CIA program to topple the Syrian government.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Quote:

---

"Off-Guardian" - one of your pro-Russia blogs - KPO

---

Pro-Russian? Really? Cites and links, please.

---

Quote:

---

Typical of you to dismiss facts by name-calling a source.

---

Quote:

---

Sure, you can "always" make the argument (if you want to stretch the definition terribly) but then you'd have to say that the USA "invaded" Syria.

---

Quote:

---

"The most egregious" would be the greatest in number. Since all YOU did was post videos- no tally - I decided to do the same.

---

Quote:

---

I doubt you will find me "cheerleading" Russia in Ukraine. That's a typical lie of yours.

---

Quote:

---

Yanno, at one time I started a thread dedicated to a point-by-point comparison of Syria versus the Ukraine... You stayed away like it was the plague.

---

Quote:

---

Russia started this war .... KPO
Cites and links for this bullshit, please?- SIGNY

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

---

Yep, that's you. Incessantly repeating propaganda.

---

Quote:

---

"Off-Guardian" - one of your pro-Russia blogs - KPO

Pro-Russian? Really? Cites and links, please. SIGNY

Lol, did you think that this was a credible source just because it does its best to look like the Guardian? How did I know straight away that this was another one of your bullshit pro-Russia blogs? Let me teach you something about critical reading Siggy.

My first clue was that the article originally comes from Global Research, another one of your other pro-Russian blogs.

---

Quote:

---

My second clue was that it uses the Russian spelling for Donbas, not the Ukrainian spelling. My third clue, I noticed from skim reading, was that the source for its headline claim of 3600 killed by Kiev is the separatist "government" - which is, frankly, hilarious. And my fourth clue was that the 'About' section of the website admits that the site was set up by people who met on the comment section of the Guardian website, disgruntled at the content there and tired of being called 'Putinbots'

---

Quote:

---

Typical of you to dismiss facts by name-calling a source.- SIGNY

Typical of YOU not to check your own source for authenticity and reliability.- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

Sure, you can "always" make the argument (if you want to stretch the definition terribly) but then you'd have to say that the USA "invaded" Syria. - SIGNY
Or that the USA invaded Cuba during the Bay of Pigs Invasion - oh wait...- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

"The most egregious" would be the greatest in number. Since all YOU did was post videos- no tally - I decided to do the same. - SIGNY

I clearly posted tallies for each of my examples. 11 killed from the shelling of the checkpoint, 29 killed from the shelling of the city of Mariupol, and nearly 300 killed from the shootdown of MH17. All of these have been investigated and blame pointed at the separatists. We've been through this in the Russia Invades Ukraine thread and you haven't been able to establish a single incident matching these where it was the Ukrainian military responsible for killing the civilians.- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

I doubt you will find me "cheerleading" Russia in Ukraine. That's a typical lie of yours. - SIGNY

Nope, you cheerlead Russia in Crimea all the time, for one.- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

Was that not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Is Russia's pouring of weapons and fighters into Ukraine not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Have you ever condemned it?- KPO

---

Quote:

---

Yanno, at one time I started a thread dedicated to a point-by-point comparison of Syria versus the Ukraine... You stayed away like it was the plague.- SIGNY

Siggy... how do I say this. I ignore you a lot. I scroll past you, or I just let your bullshit go. But if you insist on being smacked down on any particular point by all means bring it up now. - KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

Russia started this war .... KPO

Cites and links for this bullshit, please?- SIGNY

That's a whole 31-page thread of its own. Would you like me to summarise the arguments?- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

"Objective truths are established by evidence. Personal truths by faith. Political truths by incessant repetition."

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Clearly, you have never read a pro-Russian website, or you wouldn't call this "pro-Russian". So ... cites and links, please. I've read both from time to time, I don't detect a "pro-Russian" bias.

---

Quote:

---

Because OF COURSE, being CALLED a Putin-bot makes one so. By YOUR logic, simple libel is proof enough.

---

Quote:

---

Yanno, KRAPO, if I knew who you were, I'd sue you, GSTRING, and THUGR for the multitude of lies you've told about me and others. So, how about it? Wanna take off that mask of anonymity and face me in court, where the truth will come out? Or are you a fucking coward who isn't at all interested in the truth, but who simply seeks to malign and defame with lies? PM me, and we can arrange for a nice court date for you at your earliest convenience.

---

Quote:

---

Now, aside from your constant lies and defamation ... the article is very open about where they got their facts from. It ALSO cites a UN report, and OSCE reports, and other official and non-official reports, facts which you decided to withhold because they just don't support your twisted picture.

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Or that the USA invaded Cuba during the Bay of Pigs Invasion - oh wait...- KRAPO

---

It wasn't an "invasion". I can't imagine who called it that, except in some fervid dream of glory.

---

Quote:

---

TOTAL number killed. Which side is the most egregious based on the TOTAL number killed?

---

Quote:

---

I said the the Russian little green men were remarkable restrained. Also, they appeared to be well-accepted by the population, even posing for pictures with little kids. I applaud that kind of behavior- don't you?

---

Quote:

---

Was that not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Is Russia's pouring of weapons and fighters into Ukraine not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Have you ever condemned it?- KPO
No, I have not condemned it.

---

Quote:

---

But lack of condemnation doesn't mean I was "cheerleading" it, either.

---

Quote:

---

If you can manage to keep the USA from destabilizing nations all over the world by fostering separatism and "color revolutions" to begin with, then you could have a clean discussion of separatism and how to best manage them.

---

Quote:

---

Russia started this war .... KPO

Cites and links for this bullshit, please?- SIGNY

---

Quote:

---

Yep, that's you. Still incessantly repeating libel, bullshit, and propaganda.

---

Quote:

---

Clearly, you have never read a pro-Russian website, or you wouldn't call this "pro-Russian". So ... cites and links, please. I've read both from time to time, I don't detect a "pro-Russian" bias. - SIGNY

Hilarious If you want discussion of your blog sources I'll give it to you, but it deserves a thread of its own. Watch this space. -

---

Quote:

---

Because OF COURSE, being CALLED a Putin-bot makes one so. By YOUR logic, simple libel is proof enough. -
Do you not see how a site set up by a few internet randoms to spread their opinions has no inherent authority or credibility? - KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

Yanno, KRAPO, if I knew who you were, I'd sue you, GSTRING, and THUGR for the multitude of lies you've told about me and others. So, how about it? Wanna take off that mask of anonymity and face me in court, where the truth will come out? Or are you a fucking coward who isn't at all interested in the truth, but who simply seeks to malign and defame with lies? PM me, and we can arrange for a nice court date for you at your earliest convenience. - SIGNY

Attractive as the offer is, to give you my personal info so you can sue me, I think I'll pass - KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

Now, aside from your constant lies and defamation ... the article is very open about where they got their facts from. It ALSO cites a UN report, and OSCE reports, and other official and non-official reports, facts which you decided to withhold because they just don't support your twisted picture.- SIGNY

I treat that article with about the same respect that I treat yours and kiki's posts. I didn't read much of it.- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

If you have UN reports and OSCE reports that back up your argument, why the fuck wouldn't you just cite those reports directly instead of this garbage website?? The answer is obvious: you don't have them.- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

Or that the USA invaded Cuba during the Bay of Pigs Invasion - oh wait...- KRAPO-

It wasn't an "invasion". I can't imagine who called it that, except in some fervid dream of glory. - SIGNY

And yet, that's what it's commonly called.- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

TOTAL number killed. Which side is the most egregious based on the TOTAL number killed?- SIGNY
I don't claim to have those figures, and your claims to have them have been shown to be worthless (citing the separatists, LOL). What do we have? We have UN reports of 10,000+ killed across the war, military and civilian - but no breakdown as to who has done the killing and where. So all we have is guesswork, and reason. The separatists have been responsible for the most egregious examples of killing civilians (by far) - but you want us to accept that the Ukrainian military has killed more overall, based on... what exactly?- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

I said the the Russian little green men were remarkable restrained. Also, they appeared to be well-accepted by the population, even posing for pictures with little kids. I applaud that kind of behavior- don't you? - SIGNY

This is a weird tangent.- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

Was that not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Is Russia's pouring of weapons and fighters into Ukraine not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Have you ever condemned it?- KPO
No, I have not condemned it.- SIGNY

Do you not see how that makes you a hypocrite?- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

But lack of condemnation doesn't mean I was "cheerleading" it, either. - SIGNY

This is a separate point, whether or not you cheerlead Russia's actions in Ukraine. Without a doubt it is true as regards Crimea; your language regarding Russia's actions there is always celebratory - see your words above, for example.- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

If you can manage to keep the USA from destabilizing nations all over the world by fostering separatism and "color revolutions" to begin with, then you could have a clean discussion of separatism and how to best manage them.- SIGNY

If you dig down, being anti-US and anti-the-West is about the only guiding principle you have. All your other principles are fluid, and take the form of whatever you need it to take at the time. That's why you have contradictory views on civilian casualties and national sovereignty re: US and Russian military actions, on self-determination re: Crimea and Kosovo etc, etc. In other words, you are a gross hypocrite.- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

Russia started this war .... KPO

Cites and links for this bullshit, please?- SIGNY

I tell you what, you give me your theory of how the war started, to compare with mine, and then we can examine the evidence. Deal?- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

Yep, that's you. Still incessantly repeating libel, bullshit, and propaganda.- SIGNY

11th time KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

F*cksake, that's a new low even for you. This is RWED - everyone who posts here knows it's history for *raw* frankness and that it's not for people with thin skins. If you don't find it to your liking, then LEAVE! - GSTRING

---

Quote:

---

Coming after me how? Let's get this in writing.

Fwiw, I seriously doubt any court would side with someone (you) who has wished a number of us dead, or threatened us with law suits in an open forum.

Btw - a copy of your threats have been sent to Haken. Threatening fellow members is way over the line.

---

Quote:

---

or threatened us with law suits in an open forum.-

---

Quote:

---

Libel vs. Slander: Different Types of Defamation

Libel and slander are types of defamatory statements. Libel is a written defamatory statement, and slander is a spoken or oral defamatory statement. In this article, we'll look at where you might find a defamatory statement, provide some different examples of libel and slander, and more. (For an overview of this area of law, check out Defamation Law Made Simple.)

Where Might You Find Potentially Defamatory Statements?

Before we look at a few examples of potentially defamatory statements, let’s first think about places where you could see such statements. These days, the most common places for making possibly libelous (written) statements are:

letters to the editor of local newspapers
public comments on media (i.e., newspaper or magazine) web sites
blog posts
comments to blog posts, and
internet chat rooms or listservers.

In reality, you won’t see too many potentially libelous comments in published written letters to the editor because editors are generally very careful in screening out such letters. It is on the internet where people can get into trouble with libel. While some web sites screen posts for inflammatory or illegal content, the screening systems are not geared to examine every post for libelous content.

Remember that slander is an oral defamatory statement, so those statements can be made anywhere and to anyone -- as long as it's to a third party, meaning someone other than the person who is allegedly being defamed. If you tell your best friend something defamatory about person X, person X could sue you for defamation if he/she could prove that he/she was damaged as a result of your statement.

Examples of Libel and Slander

Let’s look at some examples of what might be libel. Let’s first say that you posted a comment on someone’s blog saying that the blog’s author had been given a dishonorable discharge from the Army. That certainly sounds like a defamatory statement if it is false. Remember that truth is an absolute defense to libel and slander.

But, what if the blog’s author is a well known radical anti-war and anti-government activist who doesn’t care if people think that he/she was dishonorably discharged from the Army even if it wasn’t true? In that case, it is possible that his/her community simply wouldn’t care, and the posting might not be considered defamatory.

Another example might be saying or writing that someone acted unethically or dishonestly, even if the person’s conduct did not constitute a crime. Let’s say that you write a comment to a magazine article on the magazine’s website falsely accusing the article’s author of paying his/her interview subjects for an interview. Most reputable journalists don’t pay their subjects for interviews. It is not a crime to pay a subject for an interview, but it is generally considered unethical. Since the statement was false, it is very likely libelous.

Let’s look at an example of how a statement that doesn’t even involve unethical or dishonest behavior can be defamatory. Let’s say that you told a bunch of co-workers that another co-worker got drunk at a professional baseball game and got thrown out of the stadium. If that didn’t happen, that statement could very well be slanderous. If this statement gets back to the co-worker’s boss, and the boss doesn’t tolerate such conduct, your co-worker’s job may be in jeopardy. He/she might not receive a raise or might even be fired.

Can a Qualified Statement of Fact Still Be Defamatory?

Let’s say that you write or tell some people, “I think that Roger stole $500 from me last week.” This seems more like an opinion than a statement of fact -- remember that an opinion can’t be defamatory. After all, you qualified it by saying “I think that” Roger stole the money, and defamatory statements must be statements of fact.

Unfortunately, just saying or writing “I think” doesn’t automatically convert a statement of fact into a statement of opinion. If you are talking to people who trust and believe you, and who know that you don’t joke around, they are very likely to believe you and thus believe that Roger stole money from you. Thus, if Roger did not steal any money from you, you have slandered Roger.

This is because a jury will be instructed to examine the allegedly defamatory statement in the totality of the circumstances in which it was said or written in order to determine whether an alleged statement of opinion is in fact defamatory. Under the law, a statement of fact in one context can be considered to be a statement of opinion in another context.

---

Quote:

---

Clearly, you have never read a pro-Russian website, or you wouldn't call this "pro-Russian". So ... cites and links, please. I've read both from time to time, I don't detect a "pro-Russian" bias. - SIGNY

Hilarious If you want discussion of your blog sources I'll give it to you, but it deserves a thread of its own. Watch this space. -

---

Quote:

---

Because OF COURSE, being CALLED a Putin-bot makes one so. By YOUR logic, simple libel is proof enough. -
Do you not see how a site set up by a few internet randoms to spread their opinions has no inherent authority or credibility? - KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

Yanno, KRAPO, if I knew who you were, I'd sue you, GSTRING, and THUGR for the multitude of lies you've told about me and others. So, how about it? Wanna take off that mask of anonymity and face me in court, where the truth will come out? Or are you a fucking coward who isn't at all interested in the truth, but who simply seeks to malign and defame with lies? PM me, and we can arrange for a nice court date for you at your earliest convenience. - SIGNY

Attractive as the offer is, to give you my personal info so you can sue me, I think I'll pass - KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

Now, aside from your constant lies and defamation ... the article is very open about where they got their facts from. It ALSO cites a UN report, and OSCE reports, and other official and non-official reports, facts which you decided to withhold because they just don't support your twisted picture.- SIGNY

I treat that article with about the same respect that I treat yours and kiki's posts. I didn't read much of it.- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

If you have UN reports and OSCE reports that back up your argument, why the fuck wouldn't you just cite those reports directly instead of this garbage website?? The answer is obvious: you don't have them.- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

Or that the USA invaded Cuba during the Bay of Pigs Invasion - oh wait...- KRAPO-

It wasn't an "invasion". I can't imagine who called it that, except in some fervid dream of glory. - SIGNY

And yet, that's what it's commonly called.- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

TOTAL number killed. Which side is the most egregious based on the TOTAL number killed?- SIGNY
I don't claim to have those figures, and your claims to have them have been shown to be worthless (citing the separatists, LOL). What do we have? We have UN reports of 10,000+ killed across the war, military and civilian - but no breakdown as to who has done the killing and where. So all we have is guesswork, and reason. The separatists have been responsible for the most egregious examples of killing civilians (by far) - but you want us to accept that the Ukrainian military has killed more overall, based on... what exactly?- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

I said the the Russian little green men were remarkable restrained. Also, they appeared to be well-accepted by the population, even posing for pictures with little kids. I applaud that kind of behavior- don't you? - SIGNY

This is a weird tangent.- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

Was that not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Is Russia's pouring of weapons and fighters into Ukraine not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Have you ever condemned it?- KPO
No, I have not condemned it.- SIGNY

Do you not see how that makes you a hypocrite?- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

But lack of condemnation doesn't mean I was "cheerleading" it, either. - SIGNY

This is a separate point, whether or not you cheerlead Russia's actions in Ukraine. Without a doubt it is true as regards Crimea; your language regarding Russia's actions there is always celebratory - see your words above, for example.- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

If you can manage to keep the USA from destabilizing nations all over the world by fostering separatism and "color revolutions" to begin with, then you could have a clean discussion of separatism and how to best manage them.- SIGNY

If you dig down, being anti-US and anti-the-West is about the only guiding principle you have. All your other principles are fluid, and take the form of whatever you need it to take at the time. That's why you have contradictory views on civilian casualties and national sovereignty re: US and Russian military actions, on self-determination re: Crimea and Kosovo etc, etc. In other words, you are a gross hypocrite.- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

Russia started this war .... KPO

Cites and links for this bullshit, please?- SIGNY

I tell you what, you give me your theory of how the war started, to compare with mine, and then we can examine the evidence. Deal?- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

Yep, that's you. Still incessantly repeating libel, bullshit, and propaganda.- SIGNY

11th time KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

Overview Of Battle For Deir Ezzor On September 14, 2017 (Evening Update)

On September 14, the Syrian Arab Army (SAA) and its allies fully secured the strategic Baghiliyah area northwest of Deir Ezzor city after capturing the missiles base, the Hajjanah regiment, the radio transmitter station, the al-Jazeera university, the Saiqa Camp and the arms depots around Baghiliyah, according to the Hezbollah media wing in Syria.

Then government forces developed momentum in the direction of Ayyash where they engaged ISIS in an intense fighting using a superiority in the fire power.

The Hezbollah media wing also announced that government troops captured the Nishan oil field, the Nishan gas station and the water pumping station east of Thurdah mount number 3. With this advance Thurdah mountains and the area west of Deir Ezzor Airport was secured and the SAA establish a full control over it.

The SAA also advanced southeast of Deir Ezzor city and captured the Dhamn base and al-Kurum hill. After the latest advance in the southwestern Dier Ezzor countryside, the SAA is now only 35km away from al-Mayadeen city, one of the biggest ISIS strongholds in the Euphrates River Valley.

The SAA could try to cross the Euphrates River, and then eliminate ISIS pocket in the northwestern Deir Ezzor countryside before launching the final attack on ISIS in al-Mayadin and al-Bukamal cities. The oil fields located on the eastern bank of Euphrates also attract attention of the Syrian military.

Meanwhile, the Ministry of Defense of Russia released videos of the cruise missile strike on headquarters and ammo depots of ISIS near al-Mayadin city.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I think after this post I'm going to put you on "ignore". That's what YOU do, right?

---

Quote:

---

You formed your opinion of Off-Guardian without even reading the article.

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

If you have UN reports and OSCE reports that back up your argument, why the fuck wouldn't you just cite those reports directly instead of this garbage website?? The answer is obvious: you don't have them.- KPO

---

Actually, I DID have them. I found them individually before I found this article. I posted that particular article simply because it had ALL of the links that I had found, in one convenient location.

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

So all we have is guesswork, and reason. The separatists have been responsible for the most egregious examples of killing civilians (by far) - but you want us to accept that the Ukrainian military has killed more overall, based on... what exactly?- KPO

---

The fact that the separatists have told us so

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Was that not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Is Russia's pouring of weapons and fighters into Ukraine not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Have you ever condemned it?- KPO
No, I have not condemned it.- SIGNY

Do you not see how that makes you a hypocrite?- KRAPO

---

No, I don't.

When I think about people doing bad or good in the world, the FIRST person I check is myself. How am I doing? THEN I think about those institutions over which I have at least some theoretical control ... my city, my state, my nation. Then our allies and partners. Why the hell should I hyper-focus ... like you and GSTRING and THUGR and DULLBADGUY ... over some faraway nation over which I have no authority and no responsibility?

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I tell you what, you give me your theory of how the war started, to compare with mine, and then we can examine the evidence. Deal?- KPO

---

No, since you don't read my posts, why should I waste my time on it?

---

Quote:

---

Other times I tear your arguments into tiny pieces.

---

Quote:

---

You formed your opinion of Off-Guardian without even reading the article.

No, I formed my opinion by reading the first few lines, and the website's 'about' page.- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

If you have UN reports and OSCE reports that back up your argument, why the fuck wouldn't you just cite those reports directly instead of this garbage website?? The answer is obvious: you don't have them.- KPO

Actually, I DID have them. I found them individually before I found this article. I posted that particular article simply because it had ALL of the links that I had found, in one convenient location.


Hahahahahahahaha! LIE. I went back and checked the article and while it does mention the UN and the OSCE, neither body is cited to back up the headline claim ...

---

Quote:

---

So all we have is guesswork, and reason. The separatists have been responsible for the most egregious examples of killing civilians (by far) - but you want us to accept that the Ukrainian military has killed more overall, based on... what exactly?- KPO

The fact that the separatists have told us so

I rest my case.-

---

Quote:

---

Was that not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Is Russia's pouring of weapons and fighters into Ukraine not a violation of Ukraine's national sovereignty? Have you ever condemned it?- KPO

No, I have not condemned it.- SIGNY

Do you not see how that makes you a hypocrite?- KRAPO

No, I don't. When I think about people doing bad or good in the world, the FIRST person I check is myself. How am I doing? THEN I think about those institutions over which I have at least some theoretical control ... my city, my state, my nation. Then our allies and partners. Why the hell should I hyper-focus ... like you and GSTRING and THUGR and DULLBADGUY ... over some faraway nation over which I have no authority and no responsibility?

You're saying you don't criticise Russia because you don't live there? Hypothetical: say you moved to Russia. Worked there, paid your taxes there. Would you criticise Russia then for its violation of Ukrainian sovereignty?- KRAPO

---

Quote:

---

I think after this post I'm going to put you on "ignore". That's what YOU do, right? - SIGNY

---

Quote:

---

Threatening someone, "I'm coming for you" is highly unethical.- GSTRING

---