REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Carry On.

POSTED BY: WULFENSTAR
UPDATED: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:11
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Saturday, March 17, 2012 5:03 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I'd have to go back and reread the threads in question, which I'm not about to, but all I did was express my opinion--I'm not ragging on you about it or "calling you out", I merely responded to Riona's comment with a comment of my own. Far as I'm concerned it's over and done with.

Didn't get a PM, which may be my own fault. I get tons of e-mails every morning (mostly spam), so I click "all", then go through them and unclick the ones I want to save. I may have missed something a couple of days ago, an Occupy friend told me he e-mailed me something, and I haven't seen THAT, either.

It's completely unimportant, honest Byte; I got the impression both of you were kind of edgy for a few days there and were sort of "on the offensive" if you will. I never intended my posts to be "attacking back", merely debating an issue, but I definitely felt you were laying into me. To be clear: I cannot speak for anyone else, just myself. I will make no further comments on the issue, I wasn't intending to bring it up again, my apologies if you thought I was.



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Saturday, March 17, 2012 5:23 AM

BYTEMITE


Ah. All right.

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Saturday, March 17, 2012 9:36 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

I will say this tho... If we get a bunch of calls during the night, Im a zombie at work the next day. Coffee barely works on me anymore. lol



If coffee doesn't work anymore then you then will need crack for when the baby comes...heh.

I hope you have a decent support system in place for your wife when you don't come home for a couple days... Three days straight witha screamin' baby makes most people

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Monday, March 19, 2012 5:47 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


We are kind of struggling for names.

Suggestions?

I kind of like "Inara"...

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Monday, March 19, 2012 5:50 AM

BYTEMITE


Inara? I wouldn't have guessed that you'd have had much respect for her, considering her profession. Colour me surprised.

>_> Kaylee? Or Kaywinnit Lee, if the SO wants a vaguely exotic name? Or River might be good too, though it also sounds almost too hipster, y'know? It's like naming your daughter or son Ambrosia.

<-- Side note: had a male ancestor named "Ambrosia." Seriously. Also had one named "Leonidas." Blame the 19th century and mormons.

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Monday, March 19, 2012 9:24 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Inara is a beautiful name. I'm imagining its Arabic in origin, there are probably other Inara's running around in Iran and Turkey, and even some here too. Plus I'm sure there are Inaras named for the charactor too.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, March 19, 2012 9:35 AM

BYTEMITE


Yep, it's Arabic. Means "ray of light."

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Monday, March 19, 2012 9:47 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Good for a future servant of the light, don't you think?

Ok. Its settled. Wulfs child will have the handle of Inara.

Now for a middle name....

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Monday, March 19, 2012 5:55 PM

WISHIMAY


How 'bout
"Inara *cringe WorksinthesextradeonanoldTVshowandIreallydohopeyouhaveotherbetterplansforyourdaughter(eventhoughIlikeInara)orcouldatleastbeoriginalandmodifyitsomewhatsowhenshebarelygetsgrownup!men!don'tgetthewrongidea?"

Yeah, It's a tad long I know....

I'm hoping the "handle" is just a personal use reference for the internets? Or a joke, maybe??

Anybody ever catch Wordgirl?? I doubt it, but there's a joke where a woman holds up here kid and goes "But, I already named my baby after her- little Baby Granny May..." *GAG.


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Monday, March 19, 2012 6:39 PM

OONJERAH



That's what nicknames are for. But they can be horrid, too.



                   

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Monday, March 19, 2012 6:53 PM

BYTEMITE


Inara isn't a bad name, I don't know how many would get the reference, so the issue might not even come up.

But, I thought maybe I might link to a thing here.

http://www.20000-names.com/special_categories.htm

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Monday, March 19, 2012 7:04 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Oh what would be so bad about Inara Wish? I think its a beautiful name and he can nod to Firefly at the same time. This is of course if he and his wife agree on it.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, March 19, 2012 7:09 PM

BYTEMITE


There's Serra, Inara's last name, and a Portuguese first name that means "Mountain." Sierra might also work (the Spanish version).

Kaylee means "sky" in some interpretations.

Just some other options. Inara is probably fine. :)

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Tuesday, March 20, 2012 6:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I think Inara is a beautiful name, and by the time she's old enough for it to matter, the odds of many people making the connection will be pretty thin I think. Every name comes from somewhere.

MY question would be, doesn't your wife have some say in the name? You wrote like "okay, it's settled", which made me wonder...



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Tuesday, March 20, 2012 11:33 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


My wife likes "Inara" but shes worried that it will be mispronounced. (I-NAra, or I-naRa)

Instead of E-nara.

Then again, we can't live our lives based on the lowest common-denominator, or the fear of their stupidity... right?

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Tuesday, March 20, 2012 1:08 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:


Then again, we can't live our lives based on the lowest common-denominator, or the fear of their stupidity... right?






Says the guy who votes Republican at every opportunity...


BTW, with a name like Inara, won't that mean she's a Muslim, or wasn't born here, or something evil like that?

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Tuesday, March 20, 2012 4:51 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Considering the she will be white, hispanic, asian and practically every other damn thing... I'm ok with her having a semi-Middle-Eastern name.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Tuesday, March 20, 2012 4:55 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Considering the she will be white, hispanic, asian and practically every other damn thing... I'm ok with her having a semi-Middle-Eastern name.




So you're okay with the multiracial part and with Muslim-sounding names, just as long as she never runs for President, eh? ;)

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Tuesday, March 20, 2012 5:11 PM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Well considering that she will actually have been born in this country.... and won't be a socialist-marxist-progressive-liberal...

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Tuesday, March 20, 2012 5:50 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


It's the birth control he objects to. And the J.O.B. He's gonna make damned sure she never has a chance to access them. B/c that's all so socialist-marxist-progressive-liberal... and he forgot feminazi.

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Tuesday, March 20, 2012 6:41 PM

BYTEMITE


Asian?

I knew your wife was Latina. Interesting. Unless you mean you're counting on us to teach your little girl all the Firefly chinese swears.

...which of COURSE we won't do, I mean, corrupting a child. Perish the thought.

(actually we probably really would clean up the act a little if you let your little one say hi to all the browncoats)

Does this mean your wife is a Firefly fan too?

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Wednesday, March 21, 2012 7:59 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Shes a big Firefly fan... and looks a bit like Zoe. Tho, not as tall. But, same skin and hair, and has Asian eyes.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Wednesday, March 21, 2012 8:04 AM

BYTEMITE


:o

That's awesome. You're a lucky guy. I can't get any of my family to watch it with me.

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Wednesday, March 21, 2012 8:08 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Funny part... she looks like a shorter version of Zoe... but refuses to dress like it at the cosplays she drags me to... always got to be Inara.

ETA: Was I wrong to suggest she call me "sir"... heheheh

In any case, shes a good woman. If a bit mouthy and "opinionated" (read: screaming at me over every damn thing)

Still, our daughter is going to be named Inara, and her mother and father are going to love her more than anything in this world... which is more than a lot could say.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Wednesday, March 21, 2012 10:23 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Sounds good, Wulf. Lucky little Inara. I wish you all well.

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Wednesday, March 21, 2012 10:45 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Thanks Magons..





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Wednesday, March 21, 2012 1:24 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Still, our daughter is going to be named Inara, and her mother and father are going to love her more than anything in this world... which is more than a lot could say.



Well, unless she turns out to be gay. Or worse yet, a LIBERAL!

You know you really don't have any control over that stuff, right?

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Wednesday, March 21, 2012 8:29 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


A Wulf a chara, do you really want her first name and her middle name to rhyme? I mean its up to you guys of course, but she might feel funny, then again maybe you're pronouncing Kara like Kerra, where the a says its name, then it would be really cute and sound like Inara Serra like Firefly.
I bet she'll be beautiful.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:44 AM

WISHIMAY


http://news.yahoo.com/baby-name-regret-rise-expert-says-140808874.html


Stop for just one second, and let's see reality...Lets imagine, your daughter in High School. There are dozens of kids out there right now named after the charecters of FF, because I personally know one, so saying it's possible that no one will know is a gamble anyway...

Let's imagine yer kid telling people how she got her name. Let's imagine other kids passing your daughter in the hallway, after they find out how she got her name, and calling her a whore EVERY DAY..."Hey Inara, wanna be my companion tonight??" ...Because kids are heartless and cruel like that...

Isn't the chance of that happening worth finding something else??

Not to mention we have no idea where Inara'a story is going...OR where it's BEEN...

There are lots of pretty names of REAL women all throughout history that your daughter could actually look up to for doing real honorable things ... I mean, you spend all of two seconds thinking on it and name yer kid after a CALL GIRL?? 'Cause she dresses pretty and acts calm??
Geeez.....


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Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:49 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Well...

Its obvious you've never met my wife, or myself, if you think that our daughter would take mouthy b.s. from pissants like that without swift and terrible retribution.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Thursday, March 22, 2012 9:16 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Not to mention we have no idea where Inara'a story is going...OR where it's BEEN...


As an Inara fan, I have to ask why that matters at all relative to WHO SHE IS.

And as for your mean kids in the hall example, I'm going to ask the same thing.

Quote:

There are lots of pretty names of REAL women all throughout history that your daughter could actually look up to for doing real honorable things


She's practically a doctor of psychology. She's helped people, and she's a good person, and her clients don't give her nearly the respect she deserves.

I may be a prude, but she's living her life and enjoying it. I can't fault that, or anything about the portrayal of her character.

And as for real people, there's nothing wrong with naming someone after a fictional character you respect. How many people out there are named Mary? How many of us really think the namesake was a virgin mother (that is, if they aren't named after Mary Magdelene, and if after translation and writing shenanigans they aren't one and the same)? Uh huh. Does it matter one iota? Not at all.

Quote:

Cause she dresses pretty and acts calm??


Not every girl is a hot-tempered tomboy, but that doesn't mean I don't respect people who aren't like me for the power they DO have.

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Thursday, March 22, 2012 9:34 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Omigawd, you really still do live in your fantasy world, and are going to pass it on to your child. I'm terrified for your baby. You really think you can be sure, in the first place, that your child will adopt your attitude? You're counting on a, say five-year-old girl being wanting to (not to mention being able to) attack any "mouthy pissant" around her with "swift and terrible" retribution?

It's terrifying, the fantasies you live in. Especially terrifying that you have no worries about your child suffering and have a solid belief she'll have no problems with others in school. If you're implying that you or your wife would provide that retribution, your fantasies are beyond belief. You intend to go to the child and beat him/her up? Or do you intend to beat up the parents? Try living in the real world and see what happens. The police would be after you, your kid would be kicked out of school if SHE tried it, the resentment of the other children would be incredibly heightened, and I guarantee the taunts would continue...in fact she could well become a worse target than ever before!

Have you made ANY effort to understand the upbringing of a child? Or are you just going to toss her out there, indoctrinate her to be aggressive every time something wrong happens to her? Dear gawd, I shake in my boots to imagine what her life is going to be like with you as a parent!



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Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:19 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


Do you have any children, Niki?

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:24 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

You're counting on a, say five-year-old girl being wanting to (not to mention being able to) attack any "mouthy pissant" around her with "swift and terrible" retribution?


Quote:

indoctrinate her to be aggressive every time something wrong happens to her


Um.

I love Firefly as much as the rest of you, but I seriously don't think kids ten years from now are going to care about whether a girl is named Inara, twenty years after the fact.

Also, hate it or really hate it, I'm a product of that exact mindset, and maybe I didn't turn out OKAY, but I certainly survived and am stronger for it.

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Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:34 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


People like Niki tend to get my hackles up.

This was a nice thread, lets return it to being one.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:51 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Wulf, you should name her whatever you guys want to name her and don't let others try to boss you. I understand what Wish is saying about how its important to think hard first about what to name the kiddos, but Inara is a beautiful name and in the grand scheme of things it will be fine. There are plenty of other things to tease kids about besides their names, if its not one thing its another.

Plus my niece has the worst teasable name in the world, every time I see her I want to give my sil dirty looks for what she did to my beautiful little one. But fortunately its a name that has a very nice nickname inside it that she can go by in school so the boys don't destroy her. So coming from this perspective I think Inara won't be a problem really.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, March 22, 2012 11:00 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg


No worries.

My wife and I will do what we think is right, as always. Hell or high water.

And Inara is a pretty name.




"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"



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Thursday, March 22, 2012 12:56 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Yeah it started out nice, then got rutted up, then got nice again then took a downturn again, but we're going to make it nice again.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, March 22, 2012 1:24 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Just FYI: It was Wish who brought up the dangers of naming her after Inara, merely your response to that which made me shudder for the sake of your daughter. I wish her well and all good luck.

To answer your question: No, nor did I ever intend to bring one into this world. I raised Jim's emotionally-disturbed son who was given to fits of rage; he's okay now at 40 and attributes a lot of getting through that time to my seeing "the wonderful person inside" him and not giving up on him, while Jim came home from work, closed himself in his bedroom with booze and refused to deal with Jeff or his problems whatsoever--in fact renounced him as his son during Jeff's stealing period and threw him out of the house when Jeff threatened me with a gun. Jeff was actually a lot like what you apparently want your daughter to be; that wonderful person inside finally worked its way out in his late 30s and now he and Jim are really tight. I wish it hadn't taken that long, but I'm thrilled for him that he found himself.



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Thursday, March 22, 2012 2:51 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Riona, this is interesting. Given your last statements, I went back and re-read the thread. Let's see:

Wulf posted about what he's been doing. All of us are giving him the benefit of the doubt that it's the truth. Anthony had a bit of a problem with him claiming he's the one standing between us and the dark, which is a rather grandiose statement, most of us are just used to that from Wulf and ignore it. Mike took offense at the "posting does no good" (as did I); both those statements pretty much say "I'm better than you".

YOU then jumped all over Mike, said you didn't ever want to hear such things from him again (are you KIDDING?), and promised to give people a hard time. You REALLY slapped them in the face, deciding what Wulf said for Wulf and putting Mike down for "not thinking hard enough about it". I've got news for you; the way Wulf wrote is something we're ALL accustomed to, and it makes people's hackles go up. It's nothing new. Anthony addressed it quite well:
Quote:

He glorifies himself with language suited to a comic book, and then suggests that in order to make a meaningful contribution, people should be like him and stop wasting their time on forums like these.

The former part of his message seems like so much self-glorification.

The latter portion of his message is probably rather insulting to people here who have burned their candles at both ends to make positive changes in the world.

As to the negativity people feel for Wulf beyond that, there is a long history of unfortunate positions he has endorsed.

I am glad for him. I'm glad he feels good about himself and his good works. I just wish he could find a way to feel good without continuing to display some of the unfortunate attitudes he's shown in the past.

He doesn't mention it, but Anthony has done his fair share of burning those candles,too.

Sig, Wish and Frem spoke up, indicating they had received Wulf's message much the same as Mike and Anthony (and I) did.

You then came in and snarked at Wish.

Kiki mentioned this wasn't the first time Wulf's come up with a cause and she wishes him well with this one.

Wish responded to you telling her to knock it off, and you came back with "boy, everyone's pissy today". Wish said people DO get pissy (tho' I saw no such pissiness; I saw people disagreeing with how Wulf framed his statements, mostly because we're used to him putting others down and raising himself up), and that it's wrong for you to tell everyone how to behave. Several of the things she wrote I happen to agree with, but have kept my silence on.

Byte then came in and railed on her but good, and claimed Riona hadn't told people how to behave--yet what she had said was just that: "I don't ever want to hear any more luh suh coming from you and Frem etc." (I assume meaning any of us). That's pretty clear to me.

Frem summed it up pretty good, in my opinion, with
Quote:

Too much mercy turns into pity, and from there demeans a person.
Swim with the sharks, you gonna get bit.

Besides, there's a... "history" with Wulf and some of us, and quite a lot of it is both nasty and deservedly so in both directions.

Wulf came back in again with "if someone like me can do something good, so can you", which can be taken as "get out there and do something"--completely ignoring that a number of us HAVE and DO do things to make a difference.

Your rejoinder was
Quote:

You don't have to spew vitriol just because its on the tip of your tongue, you've got time to think how you want to say something and then say it.
and that Wish hadn't used "this privelidge (sic) that she is given"--when what she said wasn't nearly as nasty as what you said to her. She listed three points explaining how she felt, and you went after her (nobody else, I note). Further down you even came up with what, the way you wrote it, comes across as a downright threat:
Quote:

I learnt(sic) some useful information about Wish today. Time will tell what I'll do with said new information.
Wish responded about people pulling their punches with you. I've noticed that too, and I was one of them for a while.

You then came back with a real ZINGER:
Quote:

You seem to want to be mean to me, maybe for the next week we should be really mean to each other, say whatever we want. Then at the end of the week it will be out of your system and we can move on and be friends like normal people. Because if you're going to be mean and nasty to folk, I'd rather you did it to me than to people in your real life who are important and who could really be hurt by your apparent need to spew meanness. What do you think?
Man, I won't even START on that one, from the passive-aggressiveness to the "out of YOUR system" to...well, it's a real zinger.

Soon after that you came back with yet ANOTHER zinger:
Quote:

Maybe in your life people don't care if you freak out at them just because you feel like it, but people I know don't put up with that sort of thing.
Wish's comeback really nailed on you. I sorry to say that, in my opinion, she also "nailed" you. I've been watching the same thing, and been the victim of some of your passive-aggressiveness, but I mostly ignore it.

Later Frem came in and pretty much nailed our history with Wulf:
Quote:

Reason for it, is that he stated he wanted to make a difference and I proceeded to spend a tremendous deal of effort and thought into teaching him how to go about doing that - this in the face of being the only one around still even half-polite to him cause his appalling conduct had prettymuch turned off everyone, and instead of even appreciating the effort he wussed out, stayed away for some time and then came back spewing a bunch of blatantly false, hateful, racist and intolerant rightwingnut agitprop while all but spitting in our faces and laughing about it.... at the time those words were uttered in his direction they were a result of conduct awful enough to have rendered that a much tamer response than the situation merited.
THAT's the truth, I've watched Frem do exactly what he said, and even got frustrated that he kept on trying, despite Wulf's behavior, so your coming in and nailing on people for how YOU perceive Wulf and his treatment is, again, what Wish said.

Things calmed down and got onto names. Wish brought up the teasing part, which hadn't occurred to me. Having had a lot of problems with my own name as a child ("Sandra Beecher" having been turned into "Sandy Beach" more times than I care to remember, which isn't nearly as bad as Inara could be...), and then reading Wulf's response, which is typical Wulf (violence FIRST! And "I'm the strongest dog in the pack, watch out!"), I was appalled for the sake of the child, hence my response. Wulf's only retort was to ask if I've ever had kids, having no relationship to the worries I expressed. My post was colored by my own memories of teasing (and yeah, Wulf, where I lived, the girls in high school wore razors in their hair, I know a few things about dealing with violence), and our history with Wulf.

That's when you came in with your comment about how the thread had gotten "rutted up".

So there you have it. I'VE learned a lot about you from this exchange, and others, but I won't threaten what I might "do with the information". As I've said, I try to respond to people on the issue currently under discussion, and have agreed with my worst enemies and disagreed with my best friends here. The one thing I've learned is that you're not any less aggressive than any of the rest of us. The difference is that you talk sweet-sweet, then turn around and nail others, then put yourself out there as the victim, all the while inserting further snarks and even THREATENING others, which is pretty stupid on a website. I've seen the passive-aggressiveness, tho' I've not mentioned it until now as Wish did. Whether others are aware of it or not, I am. It won't color how I respond to you any more than any of our other quirks are cause for calling one another on them, but I won't let it pass toward me anymore, and over time I've recognized you're not the sweet person you appear to be.

I'm pretty tired of you and Byte backing one another up, too, it's gotten pretty evident over time. You've made it clear you're friends, as I mentioned before, but you two take it to a new height. I'm friends with numerous people here, too, but I don't defend them to the absolute extent you two do, and nobody defends me that way (nor do I want them to!). It's only mildly irritating, and the only thing it does, for me, is lessen my respect for both of you somewhat, which is no biggie to anyone.

This place isn't for the faint of heart. We fight. We change allegiances from topic to topic. But holding grudges (as I'm beginning to suspect you do) over small things, isn't healthy, and pretense doesn't last long. That's where I stand.



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Thursday, March 22, 2012 3:23 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:



Byte then came in and railed on her but good, and claimed Riona hadn't told people how to behave--yet what she had said was just that: "I don't ever want to hear any more luh suh coming from you and Frem etc." (I assume meaning any of us). That's pretty clear to me.



Because it was a misunderstanding. You quote one part of what she says, but you don't add the rest to put it into context: That she doesn't want to hear it and that she would flame them if they did. Some threat. And for someone who is so controlling, when people did attack Wulf, what did she do? Nothing.

I concede that Riona sometimes stings people, but all of us do that, and she's far less gross/vulgar/crude than some of the attacks you've been subjected to. I don't understand why it's so necessary to call her out for her posts being so vicious or whatever when they just plain aren't. If you want to call someone vicious, there are more deserving targets. Like me.

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Thursday, March 22, 2012 3:55 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

Byte and Riona have more in common than friendship, in my opinion.

They are both forum members who manage to say something, about twice a month, that upsets me. With Byte, I am usually upset by the bitterness with which she approaches vital topics. With Riona, sometimes it is her manner of 'soft' insult, and sometimes it is an aspect of her religious belief system.

However, I feel that they are both well-intentioned people. I do not care (as much) if a well-intentioned person upsets me. They have honorable goals, good hearts. If they sometimes say something offensive to me, or express themselves in a way that raises my ire, I can endure it. I consider Frem a friend, yet sometimes he says something that leaves me momentarily horrified and shaking my head. But he is a good person. He has a good heart. That kind of thing is important.

It really matters to me WHY people do what they do. I'm not telepathic, of course, but patterns form over time.

On the other side of things (to my mind) we have people like Wulf. I am sure that Wulf was well-intentioned once. I am no longer convinced of his good intentions. While I think he has proven that he is capable of contributing to society, I no longer think of him as being good in his heart. Too many fractures run too deep. This alone is not so much of a problem, but he steadfastly refuses to see these fissures, and even fosters them. Year to year, I see no improvement or even desire for improvement. He is proud of the way he is.

So when someone like Wulf says something that upsets me, I find it hard to give him the same benefit of the doubt. I do not think he is acting from a good place, or from an honest desire to help. I think a darkness drives him. And so I speak out against him when he says something I find upsetting.

There is every reason Riona should find our treatment of Wulf very odd. She has not listened to him over these years. She has no reason to view his statements in a negative light. She must see us all as monstrous in our negativity. When she stands up to us in defense of Wulf, I imagine her as taking the 'heroic' stance that Wulf can only pretend to. I see it as an upsetting action done by a person with the best of intentions.

And so I endure it. If I am right about Wulf, and if Riona is paying attention, she will eventually understand why we react this way towards him. There are numerous horrific statements and positions on a tally sheet that she has never seen. But if Wulf hangs around, he won't be able to keep himself from running a new tab of dishonor. He does it in spite of himself. He does it even after trying very hard to frame and phrase things in an acceptable way. He can't help it. It's who he chose to be, and it's now a part of him.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

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Sunday, March 25, 2012 7:16 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Hi Anthony, I know that Wulf says some bad ones here, he can be mean and unkind and can say some upsetting things. The thing I took issue with was that people (well it looks like just Frem, I'm sorry I lumped Quicko in there, I was wrong) have called him a coward, repeatedly. I just think this proves that he's not a coward so I don't want to see him called one again. I don't care what all else you guys call him, that's between him and you, it isn't my affair. I obviously wasn't clear enough about the specifics of what I was saying and I'm sorry for that. I will endeavor to be more careful in future about that.

Niki, that was really interesting reading your interpretation of this thread. Here's how I interpreted it:

Wulf, who isn't pure as the wind driven snow we all know, came in and talked about his recent experiences. People poopooed his recent experiences and the thing he seems to be working on learning based on the part of his post that expressed a questionable opinion. I said I don't want to see him called a coward anymore because firefighting and rescue is a brave thing to do, so he has proved, at least to me, that he isn't a coward.

Wish came in wanting to call people "dogfuckers" for no apparent reason, I think she was just playin around but she just kept mentioning it and I said, or thought I said, that I saw no point, and referenced her Olly jokes in the other thread, tried to show her I thought they were funny and that someone was actually reading them. Wish wrote back and totally "freaked out" taking the oppertunity to bust out irrelevent insults and insult my womanhood etc. I found this ironic at the time because the inexplicable need to call someone a dogfucker just because seemed rather immature to me, so I thought it was funny that she was insulting my maturity level. We exchanged vitriolic posts for a bit, I was rather puzzled by the whole affair but I went with it. Things settled down. Wulf talked about what to name his new little one coming, we disagreed about names and whether teasing was an imminant threat, Wulf got a little frustrated and I said that about the thread taking lots of turns.

Moral to the story on my end: I'm going to try to ignore lame stuff instead of responding to it (Note that Wulf's initial stuff is not the lame stuff I'm going to ignore.)

Again Quicko in case I didn't make it clear I'm sorry I lumped you in with Frem in regard to calling Wulf a coward, I think that was my biggest mistake here and its something I'm going to try hard not to do again.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:13 PM

FREMDFIRMA



One might have noticed a retraction of that particular insult - something exceedingly rare for me to offer, not that it makes him less a jerk.

Also, regarding driven by a darkness...
There, once upon a time, went I.

My initial forays into "bending the world" were not, by any means, motivated by good intentions, far from it - more a vicious act of destructive revenge against a society which had no place for people like me.

And somewhere in there it occured that the most damaging, hurtful, destructive thing I could DO to the folks behind it, was to take away their power *TO* do it, otherwise even as I crushed them into the dirt more would just spring up to replace them, it required a larger scale, bringing the fight into the light of day, dragged kicking and screaming, where the world could see what they ARE and help me put the boot in.

Somewhere along the line, somehow, in ways I cannot find the words for, the motiviations slowly changed, from harmful, to helpful, intentions, to WANT to better this world, and the experiences and lives of the people in it - I can't really offer a HOW or a WHY, but it did.

And one reason I am biting my tongue a bit is that I hope, quite sincerely, that this will also happen in Wulfs case.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:05 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


You're right Frem a chara, I should have included your retraction in my thread summary, the only reason I didn't is because this seems to be anissue between me, Wish and now Niki, and possibly Byte by proxy. But I did see your retraction and it was stupid of me not to include it in the summary.

There are at least five sides to every story, :)

And yeah Byte is my good friend, we've known each other for three years, we read each other's stories, we write a lot, I mean a lot. We even talk on the phone sometimes, its not her favorite thing, but she does it with me because she knows I like it, I in turn try not to ask her too often. The bottom line being that I will always defend her, even if I don't exactly agree with her. Because I care about her. I find it really interesting that others would find this an odd concept.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise

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Monday, March 26, 2012 1:54 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Again Quicko in case I didn't make it clear I'm sorry I lumped you in with Frem in regard to calling Wulf a coward, I think that was my biggest mistake here and its something I'm going to try hard not to do again.



You owe me no apology, Riona; everything you said in regards to me was accurate, and I did indeed call Wulf a coward, on more than one occasion. And if being "lumped in" with Frem is the worst that can happen to me, then I'm living a charmed life and consider it high praise!

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Monday, March 26, 2012 4:02 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


General thoughts about Wulf over time:

- I never took his posts as seriously as most of you, not out of disrespect, but because to me they were the opinions of someone who was/is young and still finding their way, and as Frem noted we change over time, sometimes dramatically. At least he's expressing those thoughts. It would be worse if he just kept them in and didn't hold them up to be tested and pounded on by his peers. As we have all seen it's hard to agree with people who are yelling at you whatever the venue, and even if you seem rooted in old beliefs you can still be influenced by the opinion of others.

- Wulf's about to be pappa Wulf. I'm led to believe that makes one 98% less selfish - that would be good seasoning for Wulf imho.

- the pain you have visited on you as a child/youth is some of the deepest you will ever feel. Hard to let all of that go no matter how much you try, or think your way to a better place no matter how obvious it may seem to anyone else.

- Forum Effect. How many of us are the same people, same persona in RL? Is Kwicko The Angriest Man in the Real World? I think Wulf is using the forum to test ideas and boundaries - that's a perfect use for it, maybe the best, and no better forum than RWED, his is the action of someone still searching for answers. Keep asking questions Wulf!



Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Monday, March 26, 2012 4:12 AM

BYTEMITE


Riona... I know you were just posting a counterpoint to Niki, but that's going to keep the argument going and people are just going to get angry again.

I'm declaring this thread anathema, anathema all over the place.

I suggest we loot everything that isn't nailed down or currently on fire, and run before the tactical orbital strike hits.

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Monday, March 26, 2012 5:40 AM

FREMDFIRMA



*snicker*

Skyrim...
Quote:

My god, you're like a kender with a crowbar, seriously, is there ANYTHING left in there ?

*lugging a 25lb section of wall cause it had some interesting graffiti on it, followed by the zombified corpse of last opponent*
Nope.


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Monday, March 26, 2012 7:35 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:


- Forum Effect. How many of us are the same people, same persona in RL? Is Kwicko The Angriest Man in the Real World? I think Wulf is using the forum to test ideas and boundaries - that's a perfect use for it, maybe the best, and no better forum than RWED, his is the action of someone still searching for answers. Keep asking questions Wulf!




A good point. And in answer to the question, No, I'm hardly the Angriest Man in the Real World™; it's part of my online persona, and it's cathartic for me, to let my inner demons out for a bit of exorcise [sic]. In real life, I laugh a lot, every day. 'Course, I do that a lot on the internet, too, but it's a different kind of laughter. ;)

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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