So, Obama didn't find and kill bin Laden all by himself after all. by AURaptor

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

So, Obama didn't find and kill bin Laden all by himself after all.

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Saturday, June 2, 2012 16:47
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VIEWED: 3504
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Monday, May 28, 2012 7:02 AM

DALEK!

Claiming inside knowledge that can't be confirmed and posting person antidotes is not the way to have a discussion neither. In fact it just takes away from people really talking and debating that issues. Frem could very well use any experience to add to those discussion with them instead of trying to argue from a position of authority.

If Frem is trying to hide or protect someone he would not be posting little tidbits of anything on a Firefly fan discussion forum. That whole line of reasoning makes little sense. It's not hard to know the area he lives in. He is opened about what he does for a living. Anyone really looking for him would not have a hard time finding him.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Monday, May 28, 2012 7:05 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
If Frem is trying to hide or protect someone he would not be posting little tidbits of anything on a Firefly fan discussion forum. That whole line of reasoning makes little sense.

Part of this argument was about abuse at the juvenile camps, right? You can see, I'm sure, how someone could talk about the existence of the camps, but not want to post about specific cases of kids who were taken out of the camps or post personal details about them, yes?

As for personal anecdotes, sometimes your personal anecdotes and my personal anecdotes have butted heads. They can still be part of a discussion, they don't have to be dismissed outright, nor should they, I think. They often carry very important information depending on the context and the conversation.

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Monday, May 28, 2012 11:14 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

As out there as Frem's stories sound sometimes I believe him on a decent chunk of what he says because his stories seem to add up fine, and why not? I don't agree with him about 9/11 being an inside job or about OBL, we can't agree all the time. But his main stuff sounds plausible enough, I even almost believe him now about his age, pretty soon I won't doubt it at all.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Monday, May 28, 2012 9:22 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Without dismissing the rest of that post, and in an effort to make a very long short-story answer to a long-story post pallatable to anyone here who actually takes time to read... I'll just say that the things I didn't include about you post I agree with...

That being said. Whatever reason's you don't agree with PN, I just gotta say that my main gripe with him is that even though he's got thousands of GREAT points to make, he ruins them in his own way and loses credibility with everyone not "on board" with his "base" just like Glen Beck does. In my mind, PN is as "right" and as "brilliant" as Glen, but PN turns nearly 80% of the population off IMMEDIATELY with his anti Jew rhetoric, just like Glen turns an equal amount of people off with the word "God" thrown in every 40 seconds he's on TV.

Really, that saddens me, because in fact I believe that both of them are so spot on with almost every issue they pontificate about, but if anybody even wants to be taken with a single shred of seriousness for their thoughts outside of their own personal bubble of fans, they have to treat them like clowns.

What pisses me off the most about PN and Glenn Beck is that they ultimately hurt common sense with their diatribes ten fold than they'd ever help their cause. PN would be just fine if there was a little, sensible PR buffer between what he thinks and what he posts.

"How to Win Friends and Influence People". I'm sure it would have been stated, if it needed to be, but the internet wasn't invented back then, and there was no chapter to not stating anti-Semitic views in 50 percent of your blog posts.

I'm sure if Mr. Carnagie were to have written that book today, and not in 1936, before WWII, he would have added the chapter.....

I HATE when I get angry and dig my heels in....

That's why I'm telling you to let it go Frem.

That's the VERY FIRST way to lose an argument with somebody, at worst..... at the very least, you leave each other in a stalemate and you've changed nobodies mind.

Nick has his beliefs on this issue, and for whatever reason, he's not buying into your views on it.

My thought is, let it go.....

Why make an "enemy" now out of somebody who could possibly be a very great ally down the road in other avenues....?

Nick obviously feels VERY strongly about things, and if assured somehow that they weren't crazy conspiracy theories of mad men, even though he will never support everything we say, just as we have our own arguments from time to time on particular issues, there may be other ones he may just as strongly support.

Hell... over the years it's obvious that as much as we have in common, there are some things we disagree strongly on. You and I have a rapport and respect for each other though and we never "talk shit" to each other or badmouth each other behind our backs.

So, on this issue, since I see absolutely no ROI (Return On Investment) with taking this any further on your part....

I humbly suggest that you reconsider digging your heels in and just make good points somewhere else.

There's plenty to be made

Afterall, you're damn near an Anarchist, aren't you?

How much respect for Nick, or even I, would you have if we just blindly believed everything you said in your personal bubble of truth as absolute truth?

I say, good for Nick. He has balls, he has moxy, and he is obviously no "mindless-left-wing-shill", or right-wing, for that matter...

However, using chlorophorm and twist ties or beating people over the head until they submit is the things Blackwater does.....

You and I are better than this.

If we've come to an impass here with Nick, I suggest we move on and find an issue where more common ground can be established.

I know this as facts.....

Neither one of us or Nick, want to be completely ineffective and ultimately meaningless "Zax's"

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Friday, June 1, 2012 8:35 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:

Making me look stupid for calling you out on your claims and than spinning a bunch of stories about how and why you can't back them up. That's funny. As I said it's not about the stories themselves it's about you. You making it seem that you are serving some higher purpose. Like you feeding just enough info to get people asking questions. Please, if you had it you would show it.

Nick, Frem's not making you look stupid; you're doing an admirable job of that all by yourself at this point.

My real fear isn't that Frem is making shit up - it's that he's NOT, and he's telling the truth. And I know that on some of this stuff, he is indeed telling the truth, and he has both been there AND done that. The FLDS fiasco out of Christoval, Texas, for example. I'm from there. I know the area. I know the people he's talking about, many of them. He's not making that shit up.

There's some stuff he and I disagree on; I hope I'm more right than he is when it comes to that stuff, but I can't guarantee that I am.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy

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Saturday, June 2, 2012 4:47 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:

Making me look stupid for calling you out on your claims and than spinning a bunch of stories about how and why you can't back them up. That's funny. As I said it's not about the stories themselves it's about you. You making it seem that you are serving some higher purpose. Like you feeding just enough info to get people asking questions. Please, if you had it you would show it.

Nick, Frem's not making you look stupid; you're doing an admirable job of that all by yourself at this point.

My real fear isn't that Frem is making shit up - it's that he's NOT, and he's telling the truth. And I know that on some of this stuff, he is indeed telling the truth, and he has both been there AND done that. The FLDS fiasco out of Christoval, Texas, for example. I'm from there. I know the area. I know the people he's talking about, many of them. He's not making that shit up.

There's some stuff he and I disagree on; I hope I'm more right than he is when it comes to that stuff, but I can't guarantee that I am.

And, truly, this is the 1% of middle ground stuff that makes any posting in the RWED worth while at all.

Kudos to you Kwick.

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