REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Court TV: 'The Great Culling will soon begin...'

POSTED BY: PIRATENEWS
UPDATED: Monday, April 4, 2011 15:04
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Thursday, December 31, 2009 6:20 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!




This was on network TV last night, with a medical doctor reporting on her patient -- a head of state -- telling her the mass culling on 7-billion people will soon begin (at 2:30 in Part 6 of 6):



Quote:

"In 2003 I had a patient who was a patient in my drug-free medical practice, who was a head of state. One day she said, 'You know, it's almost time for the Great Culling to begin. The Great Culling, when you thin the herd. It's almost time for the Useless Eaters to be culled. Those are the people who are consuming our unrenewable natural resources.' I said, 'Who's behind that?' She said, 'We, the aristocrats.'"
-Dr Rima Laibow MD, wife of General Albert Stubblebine (commander of Men Who Kill Goats in CIA's Project Stargate), Bilderberg Conspiracy Theory with Govenor Jesse Ventura
youtube.com/watch?v=4Az0csNr5B0
http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?page_id=300
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5266884912495233634
youtube.com/watch?v=dIuYNaDIFm0



This TruTV show reported the trillionaire NWO terrorists are deathly afraid of 7-billion sheeple, because that's too many to control, hence their Police State to genocide 6.5-billion ASAP, per the Gerogia Guidestones and CNN founder Ted Turner).

Quote:

"A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal."
-Ted Turner, founder of CNN News who was paid $3-billion salary tax-free in one day, Bilderberg Secret Society
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1070329053600562261

"In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, in order to contribute something to solve overpopulation."
-Nazi Prince Philip King of the British Empire in charge of bioweapons labs, If I Were an Animal; United Kingdom, Robin Clark Ltd., 1986
www.propagandamatrix.com/prince.html




Georgia Guidestones: "Maintain world population at 500-million"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS346US346&q=georgia%
20guidestones&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw&tbo=0


Similar warning to what large groups of doctors were taught back in the 1960s, about mass-culling of the sheeple, audio by Dr Stan Monteith MD, who was also on Gov Ventura's BB show:
http://www.sweetliberty.org/nobarbarians1.htm
http://www.radioliberty.com/abarbarians.html

60-million US citizens have been genocided since 1973, when US Supreme Court legalized genocide in Roe v Wade. MDs genocide and additional 1-million US citizens per year by routine medical malpractice and normal use of meds.

Can't do the Great Culling of 6.5-billion sheeple without kidnapping by police state death squads, secret gulag death camps, torture (for false confessions and intimidation of everyone else), martial law checkpoints and traffic stops for all drivers, and false-flag "terrorism".

Anyone who sheepishly complies with 1,000s of illegal alien TSA airport screeners making strip searches, and airlines requiring diapers for all passengers to pee their pants, is a slave who will "voluntarily comply" with illegal orders to go to the local death camp for culling.

Dr Laibow's husband General Stubblebine is featured in the current George Clooney movie, The Men Who Stare at Goats, previously a book and BBC TV show by Jon Ronson (played by gay Jedi Knight Obi Wan Kenobi), who helped Alex Jones infiltrate Bohemian Grove.
http://www.jonronson.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=680
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Men_Who_Stare_at_Goats_(film)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Men_Who_Stare_at_Goats


Quote:

"The most stunning statistic, however, is that the total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. It is now evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the US. Using Leape's 1997 medical and drug error rate would add another 216,000 deaths, for a total of 999,936 deaths annually. Our estimated 10-year total of 7.8 million iatrogenic* deaths is more than all the casualties from all the wars fought by the US throughout its entire history. Our considerably higher figure is equivalent to six jumbo jets are falling out of the sky each day."
—Gary Null, PhD; Carolyn Dean MD, ND; Martin Feldman, MD; Debora Rasio, MD; Dorothy Smith, PhD, "Death by Medicine", March 2004 (plus 1-Million annual aborticides in USA)
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_death_01.htm

Merck brags Vioxx killed more people than Americans killed in the Vietnam War
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=40946

"We believe that within a period of five to ten years, it would be possible to produce a synthetic biological agent that does not naturally exist and for which no natural immunity could have been acquired. Within the next five to ten years, it would probably be possible to make a new infective microorganism which could be different in certain important aspects from any known disease-causing organism. Most importantly, it might be damaging to the immunological and therapeutic processes upon which we depend to maintain our relative freedom from infectious disease. A research program to explore feasibility could be completed in approximately five years at a cost of $10 million. It is a highly controversial issue and there are many who believe such research should not be undertaken, lest it lead to yet another method of mass killing of large populations."
—Dr. Donald MacArthur, RESEARCH, DEVELOPMENT, TEST, AND EVALUATION, Department of the Army, Statement of Director, Advanced Research Project Agency, Statement of Director, Defense Research and Engineering, SYNTHETIC BIOLOGICAL AGENTS HOUSE BILL 15090, UNITED STATES SENATE LIBRARY, U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE, Department of Defense Appropriations for 1970. Hearings before a Subcommittee of the APPROPRIATIONS HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, Ninety-First Congress, first session, July 1, 1969, testimony on June 9, 1969 (FULL TEXT HTML -- JPG Image Scan of HB 15090)
www.umoja-research.com/aids_murder_docs.htm
http://community-2.webtv.net/LikingLArry/IsTheAIDSVirusMan/

"PATHOGENIC MYCOPLASMA - The invention relates to a novel pathogenic mycoplasma isolated from patients with Aquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS) or patients dying from diseases and symptoms resembling AIDS diseases. The invention further relates to a variety of vaccinations against mycoplasma infection in humans and/or animals."
—United States Patent, US Patent Office, Patent Number 5,242,820, Inventor Stryh-Cheng Lo and American Registry of Pathology in Washington DC, Filed June 6, 1991, continuation date June 18, 1986
www.gulfwarvets.com/mycoplas.htm

State Origin: The Evidence of the Laboratory Birth of AIDS
www.boydgraves.com/timeline/

"Eugenics is the science of improving hereditary qualities by socially controlling human reproduction. In 1927, the eugenics movement reached the height of its popularity when the U.S. Supreme Court, in Buck v. Bell, held that it was constitutional to involuntarily sterilize the developmentally disabled, the insane, or the uncontrollably epileptic. Oliver Wendell Holmes, supported by Louis Brandeis and six other justices, wrote the opinion."
—Planned Parenthood ® Federation of America, "Margaret Sanger - Sanger and Eugenics"
www.plannedparenthood.org/about/thisispp/sanger.html

"It seems to me from my experience . . . in North Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee, and Texas, that while the colored Negroes have great respect for white doctors, they can get closer to their own members and more or less lay their cards on the table. . . . They do not do this with the white people, and if we can train the Negro doctor at the clinic, he can go among them with enthusiasm and with knowledge, which, I believe, will have far-reaching results. . . . His work, in my opinion, should be entirely with the Negro profession and the nurses, hospital, social workers, as well as the County's white doctors. His success will depend upon his personality and his training by us. The minister's work is also important, and also he should be trained, perhaps by the Federation, as to our ideals and the goal that we hope to reach. We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs."
—Margaret Sanger (1883-1966), founder of Planned Parenthood and editor of The Birth Control Review from 1917 to 1938, letter to Clarence J. Gamble, M.D., Planned Parenthood ® Federation of America, "Margaret Sanger - Sanger and Eugenics", 1939
www.plannedparenthood.org/about/thisispp/sanger.html

Nurses' Participation in the Nazi Euthanasia Programs
http://www.baycrest.org/Winter%202002/article4.htm

"Harold Shipman, the British family doctor who murdered more than 200 of his patients to become one of the worst serial killers of all time, hanged himself in his prison cell."
—Reuters, "Britain's worst serial killer Dr Death dies in prison," Jan 13, 2004
http://abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1024925.htm

"The Centers for Disease Control says that 100,000 young athletes between the ages of 13 and 30 drop dead every year, either during exercise, during a sporting event or immediately after. Or twice that."
-Dr Joel Wallach ND DVM, Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine, Doctor of Veterinary Medicine, 1991 Nobel Prize Nominee - Medicine http://firstamendmentradio.com http://www.wallachonline.com Dead Doctors Don't Lie http://www.deaddoctors.com 46 MILLION copies sold
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9000052717197218681

“It’s interesting to note that the President’s children have not gotten their shots and the explanation for this is it hasn’t been available to them – now that’s a little bit hard to buy when you think that probably anything the President wants can be available for their children. So in a way he’s made his decision not to give his children these inoculations – so if he has freedom of choice on this, I would like to make sure that all the American people have the same amount of freedom of choice.”
-Congressman Ron Paul MD
http://campaignforliberty.com





V warns that 'flu vaccines' are sabotaged for genocide
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=25&t=40949&m=744205

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Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:39 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Okay, so... by the end of next month I guess we should see roughly a 10% reduction in the world's population??? (That's about 700 million people.) And roughly 10% reduction each month after that, until the end of 2010?

Just trying to set quantitative markers for the coming year so we can... yanno... make fun of you when it doesn't come true.
Quote:

played by gay Jedi Knight Obi Wan Kenobi
You DO know that Obi Wan Kenobi is a fictional character, right?

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Thursday, December 31, 2009 1:31 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Okay, so... by the end of next month I guess we should see roughly a 10% reduction in the world's population??? (That's about 700 million people.) And roughly 10% reduction each month after that, until the end of 2010?

Just trying to set quantitative markers for the coming year so we can... yanno... make fun of you when it doesn't come true.
Quote:

played by gay Jedi Knight Obi Wan Kenobi
You DO know that Obi Wan Kenobi is a fictional character, right?



Do you know Obi Wan is played by an alcoholic actor? Who stars in gay porn and travels the world with his boy friend, er, "companion".

Every day in USA, 5,000 sheeple are genocided in death camps and everywhere else. That's the current murder rate. Over 100-million US citizens have been genocided in the past 35 years. Hitler only killed 600,000 jews. So which is the bigger holocaust?

United Nations genocide: Codex Alimentarius to ban all vitamins
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5266884912495233634
http://www.codexalimentarius.net

Quote:

Rabbi's Guide to Killing Non-Jews
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-370355

“The birth-rate of the Non-Jews has to be suppressed massively.”
-Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Zohar II, 4b

“Just the Jews are humans, the Non-Jews are no humans, but cattle.”
-Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Kerithuth 6b page 78, Jebhammoth 61a (goyim = human cattle)

“The Non-Jews have been created to serve the Jews as slaves.”
-Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Midrasch Talpioth 225

“The Non-Jews have to be avoided, even more than sick pigs.”
-Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Orach Chaiim 57, 6a

“Jews always have to try to deceive Non-Jews.”
-Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Zohar I, 168a

“Every Jew is allowed to use lies and perjury to bring a Non-Jew to ruin.”
-Jewish Babylonian Talmud, Babha Kama 113a

"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races, as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves."
-Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to Kenneset
http://www.rense.com/general45/master.htm
http://www.texemarrs.com/112003/jewish_master_race.htm
http://judicial-inc.biz/10,,,25_we_are_the_light_unto_the_world.htm

Christians in Jerusalem want Jews to stop spitting on them
www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=487412&contrassID=2&sub
ContrassID=5&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y


It's a felony to preach Christianity in Israel.
http://healtheland.wordpress.com/2008/12/16/christian-persecution-aler
t-messianic-jews-arrested-in-israel
/

Israeli Law of Return: Only jews are allowed to be citizens of Israel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Return

Semite.
1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and ARABS - b : a descendant of these peoples - 2 : a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language.
—Merriam Webster Dictionary

"A 'Semite' is any person living in that area, including Arabs and Christians. It's time we start talking about 'The Other AntiSemitism'. A Semite is not a Jew living in America or Europe."
—Ralph Nader (Arab-American from Lebannon), Indy presidential candidate 2008, Reform Party presidential nominee in 2004, Green Party presidential nominee in 2000, Arab-American Business conference, C-SPAN, 2003

Rabbis and Israeli doctors murder people and steal their organs
http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS346US346&sourceid=chrome&
ie=UTF-8&q=rabbis+organ+harvest



Do you have a kosher doctor...?

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Thursday, December 31, 2009 2:42 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!




Centers for Disease Creation Sick Comic Superheros on Kids
http://www.infowars.com/cdc-creates-superhero-team-to-sell-kids-on-vac
cines
/



Looks like the mercury in vaccines makes you sick...

Researcher laughs at monkey he kills, DRESSED AS A HUMAN...
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=45450&m=805515#805515

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Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:05 PM

LOONATYK105


the worst part about a global culling is that there won't be death camps, you are being microchipped and being made infertile so that only those who are seen as superior may live on, you know the radiation leak in japan, NOT AN ACCIDENT, and it makes me wonder wether or not the tsunami was planned or not. who's to say that technology doesn't exist, and who's to prove it.

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Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:12 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


So how DID that whole planetary "culling" work out, anyway?

I see populations are still increasing.

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Friday, April 1, 2011 2:32 AM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
So how DID that whole planetary "culling" work out, anyway?

I see populations are still increasing.



TPTB suck at being TPTB.

Doesn't mean they aren't trying. In places it's working quite well for them. I live in one. Half the houses are abandoned, those that are occupied have one person in them mostly. Eastern Europe is becoming this way. It's not that people moved away, it's that the population is collapsing. Our population level stays high because we have lots of immigration. This disguises our Russian-style collapse.

But here in upstate NY we have a pretty functional economy, and the population is collapsing pretty steadily. The whole state is going down in population, but the effect is much more drastic than it appears because New York City has a ton of immigration.

This is why TPTB want to install "one child policy" type stuff in the third world, so we will stop importing their populations. They already have it here, and Europe is even more one child than China now. Again, the numbers are buffered by huge imports of muslims, and muslims having children, but europeans themselves are having fewer children than the chinese.

I suspect that a world war is in the making, but I'm not sure they decrease the world population, just kill a lot of people. There's a difference of course. If you create total chaos, people will fuck like bunnies. It's a natural human response to threats. Or alcohol, cereal, TV dinners, a sofa with someone of the opposite sex on it, life in general ;)


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Friday, April 1, 2011 3:23 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Okay, so... by the end of next month I guess we should see roughly a 10% reduction in the world's population???

I'll bite.



Here's my prediction. In the next 10 years, 60 million.

So if FFF is still here in 2021, you can freely ridicule me if my predicition hasn't come true.

OK, fine print. 60 million dead through violence or other "unnatural" means. As in, earthquake, tsunami, volcano, hurricane = natural. Famine from closed borders and political policies = unnatural. Violence obviously = unnatural.

Epidemic is kinda iffy. I mean, biological warfare is entirely possible. That is just gonna have to be debatable, depending on the circumstances. But I wouldn't count it as "unnatural" unless there was evidence of man helping it along. So AIDS, despite circumstantial evidence that it may have been accidentally man-made, would = natural.

The numbers, of course, will be debatable as well. Even on the Happy Shiny Flawed People thread, we can't agree how many people died from coalition violence in Iraq.

But I figure, 60 million is such a high figure way out of the realm of random chance, if it even gets close to that range, I hope to be afforded some leniency.

Of course, if it gets even close to that range, no one will care if I am right or wrong.



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Friday, April 1, 2011 7:47 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
So if FFF is still here in 2021, you can freely ridicule me if my predicition hasn't come true.


I just saw the revised list. While most of us are going to be here in 2021...you don't have to worry about being ridiculed. On the upside your last hours will be spent chained to PN so you can listen to all his crazy talk about Nazi-Jew death squads.

Like we'd use death squads...its the 21st Century...there's an app for that.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Friday, April 1, 2011 7:50 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
On the upside your last hours will be spent chained to PN so you can listen to all his crazy talk about Nazi-Jew death squads.

ROFL. Fair enough.




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Friday, April 1, 2011 1:47 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


CTS, not to be trite, but 60 million over 10 years doesn't even begin to keep up with "inflation" - I mean that the population of the world will grow by half a billion or more in that time.

So again, not exactly a "culling" by any stretch of the imagination, whereby PN was claiming that global population would be declining by 10% per year.

Not only does it not decline, but the rate of growth ACCELERATES.

Heck, I *wish* people would institute a one-child policy per couple, voluntarily and only on themselves, of course. Imagine halving a population in a generation without violence, war, or epidemic being the cause.

Of course, nothing like this will happen. We'll continue to encourage the poor to breed, because corporations need cheap labor, and needn't ever concern themselves with the health or longevity of their employees in a "free market" economy.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, April 1, 2011 2:11 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
CTS, not to be trite, but 60 million over 10 years doesn't even begin to keep up with "inflation" ...So again, not exactly a "culling" by any stretch of the imagination, whereby PN was claiming that global population would be declining by 10% per year.

Mini-culling?

60 million in 10 years is still an average of one Jewish Holocaust per year, which is pretty damn horrific. This would not be normal. I won't go so far as 10% per year, but I do see things getting catastrophically worse for mankind in the next decade. I see too many signs of upcoming world wars, holocausts, and genocides.

Of course, I hope to God I that come 2021, I find myself chained to PN listening to his rants as my punishment for daring to imagine such an atrocious future.





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Friday, April 1, 2011 8:58 PM

DREAMTROVE



I'm with Mike, I think your estimate is low.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Saturday, April 2, 2011 1:57 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I'm with Mike, I think your estimate is low.

I gamble conservatively.



What's *your* estimate?



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Sunday, April 3, 2011 8:17 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


Well, I guess we're all still here, including PN.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Sunday, April 3, 2011 8:53 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I'm with Mike, I think your estimate is low.

I gamble conservatively.



What's *your* estimate?




I try not to gamble.

Say, send me an email sometime.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Monday, April 4, 2011 2:47 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by RionaEire:
Well, I guess we're all still here, including PN.


Nope, he's definately on the list. Right between Snooki and some fella from Indiana who thinks fish have feelings.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Monday, April 4, 2011 11:29 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Heck, I *wish* people would institute a one-child policy per couple, voluntarily and only on themselves, of course. Imagine halving a population in a generation without violence, war, or epidemic being the cause.

Of course, nothing like this will happen. We'll continue to encourage the poor to breed, because corporations need cheap labor, and needn't ever concern themselves with the health or longevity of their employees in a "free market" economy.



I... Can't agree with this. And I'm going to attempt to break down why. It probably won't make sense to anyone who isn't paranoid or obsessed with conspiracy, but it's a stab at what I think and feel.

Your statement about corporations needing more labour rings true. It's also true that the poor have the most children, to offset the inevitable losses that need and deprivation would result in. It's even possible that having lots of children makes for fewer resources to share among the children, exacerbating the situation.

As a side note, children can also be a source of income, though there's a difference between fair labour and exploitation. But let's just say that kids are a drain on income for now.

The angry mob of poor have been discouragement from bad behaviour on the part of the rich since class division was invented. Even though the rich can afford better guns, diet, and medical treatment, numbers are the main advantage that the poor have over the rich. On just a money/corruption level, the system as it is now is far from honest, and yet the poor can still theoretically vote with their money against the rich. On a vigilante law level, retribution may the the only thing that keeps utter sociopaths and tyrants in line (though admittedly at this point not well).

Because the rich can afford superior technology and medical treatment, their children aren't as much at risk for these loses.

Encouraging such a program to halve the population in a generation means by necessity there would be fewer poor people born than rich people, as even in the initial premise, it's suggested the fact that the poor being unable to support their children is a reason not to have them (which may not be wrong, but there's potential consequences for this, too). More than that, the poor would have to have fewer children in general to make up for a historic tendency to have lots of children, while the harsh environment will drop the number of poor births/survivals further.

You would have a brief turn-around period of enlightenment for the poor as there would be a defeminization of poverty, but overall standard of living only improves if there is some means for newly educated women and their families to support themselves afterward, preferably not the exploitation jobs offered by foreign interests, but jobs that build a local economy. And if not jobs and the tie to capitalism that implies, then land or resources. These people are poor, it's assumed they don't really start with land or resources.

So my conclusion is the burden of this policy would fall on the poor. Such a policy may help the individuals, but it hurts the demographic relative to other demographics.

And I further note that maybe the real problem is more with the system itself than what the poor do and don't have and whether they should have children. Lack of resources seems to be a product of the system to me. It also seems to me it might be more important to be born and alive than it would be for concerns about health and longevity. You don't have to worry about either of those if you aren't even born.

Lastly, I have concerns about a possible genetic bottleneck if many humans are encouraged to not reproduce. Our best defense against increased incidence of inbreeding and dangerous/fatal genetics that might be brought out by inbreeding is to keep the human gene pool as diverse as possible... And the best way for that is the already existing evolutionary processes we have, where people continue trying to nurture some personal genetic time capsules to maturity.

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Monday, April 4, 2011 3:04 PM

DREAMTROVE



Mike,

I think you're way off the mark on this one, but I'm not inclined to argue. You seem tense lately, I don't know if it's stress or just your spats with Rappy ;) But seriously, you do. You're not usually this down on humanity. I've been going through a tense time here, so I know what it's like.


Byte,

Corporations don't need labor. They want lower wages. Increasing the labor pool does that, but there's already a labor surplus, caused by automation. The natural evolution of society would be that we would create something new which would give work to more people, which we are doing, it's called the internet, but the wage system isn't catching up, and won't.

There is no shortage of resources. Everything humans use can be manufactured in abundance. Under a trillion humans, there's no problem other than *how* we get those resources. If you want to put a population limit based on resource management, I probably wouldn't oppose that, if it were innate to the system (like making all food local, etc.) rather than having it opposed from above (which I would oppose, because this would be abused by those in power to favor their own children over everyone else's.) But even oil is in infinite supply. Exxon says they can create oil at $80/barrel using only water and sunlight. The carbon comes from the co2 through the photosynthesis of the algae, and the water is released back into the ecosystem. Right now, there are cheaper sources of oil, but oil is selling at $105 a barrel, so it's safe to say that we cannot run out of oil. We have enough oil forever at this price. Also, oil synthesis will get cheaper, and so the price of oil will come down as it does, and volume of production goes down.

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As a side note, children can also be a source of income, though there's a difference between fair labour and exploitation. But let's just say that kids are a drain on income for now.


Also, viewed in a non-monetary way, kids do housework, farmwork, stuff that saves mom and dad time. This increases the parent's time available for earning power, so they should be a net benefit. *American* kids are a financial liability, largely through things like student loans, etc. but also, their use as a time-asset is limited by the pointless and needlessly long school day. Studies show repeatedly that kids who get two hours of schooling a day perform better than those who receive eight.

Part of the reason other countries have more children is that children are an economic benefit under different models than the one we use. None of this is conspiracy theory, it's simple logic.

Here's where conspiracy theory enters into it, but I think this can also be logically derived: TPTB are tied to an economic system that does not favor large families. They not only use this system to stay in power, it is the system itself which is in power, and if they leave it, they are not in power. The system lives on like an undead beast. That system fears competition from other systems that favor more children.

But it's not overpopulation that is damaging the planet, it's 400 assholes in Texas. (and, sure, some in NY, too.) It's a small greedy elite whose greed is based on their struggle for power with others in their system, and that system is favoring destruction of the planet. The people, the population, the resources, none of these are a threat. It is the system itself which is a threat. We can only defeat it by evolutionarily replacing it with a better system.

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The angry mob of poor have been discouragement from bad behaviour on the part of the rich since class division was invented. Even though the rich can afford better guns, diet, and medical treatment, numbers are the main advantage that the poor have over the rich.


Yes, and will always be, as the economic system of the rich favors their low numbers.

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the poor can still theoretically vote with their money against the rich.


Depends on how you group them. I think within corporate america, this might be true, but when you expand to the financial bonds and derivatives market it is no longer the case.

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Because the rich can afford superior technology and medical treatment, their children aren't as much at risk for these loses.


I'm not sure I concur with Kofi Annan on this point. I see his argument, but I'm not sure. I mean, not saying I disagree, rather that I'll have to gnaw on it.

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Encouraging such a program to halve the population in a generation


Is one of the ten worst ideas I've ever heard. Not only would it wreak havoc on the socioeconomic system, but it would be opposed by someone, escalating an already threatening world war. Also, whoever opposed it would have evolution on their side. One of my favorite headlines on this was "The Duggers don't believe in evolution, but evolution believes in them" ;)


It's worth also noting that the poor have a better gene pool to start with (partly lacking centuries of inbreeding) but mostly because of their numbers. This bad plan would be subtracting from the gene pool by halves, creating a road to extinction for humanity.

Evolution disagrees with the idea. If the premise of limited resources were not as completely bogus as it is, evolution would favor a rapidly reproducing human population that fought very violent unending war. This would probably be better for everyone than peace, but it would be much better for the species.

The pure eugenicist population reduction plan, one child policy, etc. just fails in competition with the mad max society. Now, assume that the world is going to have more than one society in it. If we *did* have limited resources, both societies would develop, and mad max society would completely obliterate the commie brave new world.

I guess I'm calling the India-China war here for India. I think that's an outside call, but maybe not a long shot, but at present, it's a call I'm willing to make.

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So my conclusion is the burden of this policy would fall on the poor.


Of course it would. Not only would they be the ones dying, but economically: Even if the kids aren't an asset within our system when they're 10, they are as adults, and as the population decreases, those with wage-based assets (the middle class and lower class) would see decreasing wealth, whereas the rich with assets based on inheritance would be increasing. The result would be that the rich would be able to seize all of the land of the poor, and rural poverty would end as we all got pushed into concrete block mass housing as has been happening in Brazil.

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the real problem is more with the system itself


Yes, of course it is. It's an entirely economic construct. An acre of land, by biomass yield, can support all the energy and food for 1000 humans if done to the scientific limit. You could do that with present day technology. If you did, the entire US population could live in any one major US city, and get nothing from the rest of the country, and sustain itself forever. I recommend seattle. It doesn't have the longest growing season, but it has the most rainfall. Or miami. If the sea level doesn't rise. Or, we could move the whole population to Hawaii. Anyone who thinks we're over populated hasn't spent a lot of time traveling by car. Great Britain is a nation 1/3 the size of Texas with twice the population, and half the country is completely uninhabited. I don't think that the population growth rate is even a threat to our current way of life, and won't be for 500 years, even if no natural force like a massive plague intervenes. I don't think the planet has ever had 500 years without a plague. Whatever, it's so very much not a threat.

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Lack of resources seems to be a product of the system to me.


Yes, quite deliberately so. The US is intentionally farmed for minimum biomass yield. This is because underlying out bogus fiat economy is a land based economic system.

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Lastly, I have concerns about a possible genetic bottleneck if many humans are encouraged to not reproduce.


Sorry, I wasn't reading ahead. You got to this one. Yes, it's a pretty serious problem. The solution to this is Mad Max, see above. The alternative solution is to start making better use of resources so that we don't have this problem. It's that or forever war, take your pick.

Even if nightmare dystopia "world without children" becomes a dominant world model, it will still get its head handed to it by Mad Max society.

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Our best defense against increased incidence of inbreeding and dangerous/fatal genetics that might be brought out by inbreeding is to keep the human gene pool as diverse as possible... And the best way for that is the already existing evolutionary processes we have, where people continue trying to nurture some personal genetic time capsules to maturity.


No argument here.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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