MAJOR SPOILERS: THEM'S FIGHTIN' WORDS PAHDNER! by DucesTecum

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

MAJOR SPOILERS: THEM'S FIGHTIN' WORDS PAHDNER!

POSTED BY: DUCESTECUM
UPDATED: Saturday, August 13, 2005 23:51
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VIEWED: 5338
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Friday, August 12, 2005 6:53 AM

Warning, rambling's on ahead...

Well here goes and a bunch of you will be so unhappy with me but...

I just read the thread about the EW article which stated that over 80M must be gathered in ordered to make a second movie.

And then another thread about Zoe and Wash having a baby.

I am so PO'd at Joss for killing off not one but TWO of my BDH's that I just may not see the movie. The idea of watching them die makes me sick. Not ever knowing the story about where Book came from or where he was going leaves a gaping hole that I don't believe Joss can fix.

I have also heard others mention that taking the Western element out of Serenity was not a good thing. Apparently, that was an aspect of the 'verse that was truly credible!

Then there's the thing about Zoe, Wash and a baby. Obviously, someone hasn't told that threadmaker about Wash. No Wash, no babies. Excuse me please, I think I'm going to be sick again.

I hate you Joss, but I love you too because without you there never would have been a Firefly.

"And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an over-abundance of schooling."

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Friday, August 12, 2005 7:02 AM

RKLENSETH

Have you even seen the movie yet?

If not then don't judge it until you have because if you do then you'll be missing one of the best experiences of your life.

Yes, things happen in this movie. It's not a long episode like Star Trek movies. It is an emotional roller coaster ride that takes the characters and the audience on an unforgiving but meaningful journey.

Anyways, without Book's death than Mal would have never found his faith and the last bit of the movie would have never happened. Without Wash's death, the audience wouldn't have felt that the stakes were raised and that it could be possible that no one was getting out alive. Plus Wash was the everyday man whom sacrifices his life for a greater cause them himself. Wash's cause was freedom and an undying love and he died for that.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

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Friday, August 12, 2005 7:22 AM

AMYEL

We actually learn a lot about Book's past without him stating exactly what he did. There's a very clear parallel between him and the Operative character. And just because someone is dead doesn't mean that we can't learn more about them. It's called "history". People learn it all the time.

Wash was a rock star. He went out being happy and doing what he loved and did it better than anyone else could have done. Serenity was without power and it was crashing very, very quickly. He landed it like a champ and saved everyones' asses. He was a true hero.

The grief is a good thing. It means you care about the characters as if they were real. And just like real people, they died.

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Friday, August 12, 2005 7:24 AM

NAKEDANDARTICULATE

Has anyone thought that Zoe might be pregnant?

"Hamsters is nice."

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Friday, August 12, 2005 7:39 AM

ZEEK

I agree. It sounds like you haven't even seen the movie. I can't believe you would judge such a work of art just by second hand information. It was the best movie I've seen this year and possibly ever. Very moving and powerful.

I too think we found out more than you think at first about Book. I also know Ron Glass told us he'd be back in future movies in some form or another. So, that's not the end of him. Of course Nathan also said that he took care of that Alan Tudyk guy so no worries about him coming back.

Anyway, give the movie a chance. Though if you've read all the spoilers I'm not sure how much of a rollercoaster it will be for you.

I love it.

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Friday, August 12, 2005 8:32 AM

DUCESTECUM

No I haven't seen the movie yet and I want to thank you all for being such sweet sweet people and not flaming me for being upset.

I can't explain how much the thought of losing those two sickens me. I LOVE every one of them and the thought of losing any of them is well, unthinkable.

I know I am nuts. I have NEVER felt this way about any TV program! I'm even going to Dragon Con to meet them and I'm really too old for SciFi conventions actually.

Of course I have converted many of my coworkers and am the driving force behind gathering us all to be together the night of the premier. As well as other Nashvillians.

I have been so upset over this for so long that I guess I just had to vent and thank you for listening.

"And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an over-abundance of schooling."

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Friday, August 12, 2005 8:46 AM

BLACKDOVE

First of all, it sucks that you were spoiled on the movie. But instead of getting upset, I highly recommend that you go see the movie and judge it for yourself. It really is a great film full of action and humor, and while it resolves most of the arcs from the TV show, it still sets the stage for future cinematic romps. By the end of the film you will clearly see all of the possibilities the story can take in future sequels.

"What y'all order a dead guy for?" - Jayne Cobb

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Friday, August 12, 2005 9:03 AM

NOSADSEVEN

Quote:
Originally posted by DucesTecum:
Then there's the thing about Zoe, Wash and a baby. Obviously, someone hasn't told that threadmaker about Wash.

Yeah, and they'd go to the special hell if they did.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

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Friday, August 12, 2005 9:10 AM

THRAWN

Just watch the movie. Seriously. The movie is amazing. Stop making assumptions about something you've never seen.

I mean, honestly, what would your reaction have been to a Buffy musical before it aired? Something along the lines of "that's going to suck". Best episode ever.

And the fact that you're so upset, by the way, justifies the deaths all by itself. Joss has made characters that we care about as much as real people, and so he's earned the right to show us just what real life is like - people die, and it's upsetting. Only true art is as successfully emotionally affecting as this.

It's amazing. Don't assume the worst. It's all done for a reason; Joss has proven himself a million times in the past, trust him this time too.

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Friday, August 12, 2005 9:56 AM

DUCESTECUM

All of you are so sweet and I thank you for your kindness. I don't know why I got so upset about this today, I've known about it for months. Actually, I've been upset about it for months.

I'm going home, drink some beer and watch Firefly.

>>>>Ain't We Just<<<<<

You're Gorram Right!

"And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an over-abundance of schooling."

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Friday, August 12, 2005 9:58 AM

UNCHARTEDOUTLAW

Quote:
Originally posted by DucesTecum:
All of you are so sweet and I thank you for your kindness. I don't know why I got so upset about this today, I've known about it for months. Actually, I've been upset about it for months.

I'm going home, drink some beer and watch Firefly.

See, now that's the right way to handle a Friday evening. Can only hope mine turns out the same. :) Tho, truly, I'm very attached to these characters and am not looking forward to losing any of them or dealing with potential sequels without them. It's very sad and it's also hard having a wife who doesn't know this and won't know this going into seeing the BDM.

-Taylor

http://norcalriviera.blogspot.com
http://www.cafepress.com/norcalriviera

River: "So we'll integrate non-progressional evolution theory with God's creation of Eden. Eleven inherent metaphoric parallels already there. Eleven. Important number. Prime number. One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. Noah's ark is a problem."

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Friday, August 12, 2005 1:43 PM

DUCESTECUM

Quote:
Originally posted by UnchartedOutlaw:
Quote:
Originally posted by DucesTecum:
All of you are so sweet and I thank you for your kindness. I don't know why I got so upset about this today, I've known about it for months. Actually, I've been upset about it for months.

I'm going home, drink some beer and watch Firefly.

See, now that's the right way to handle a Friday evening. Can only hope mine turns out the same. :) Tho, truly, I'm very attached to these characters and am not looking forward to losing any of them or dealing with potential sequels without them. It's very sad and it's also hard having a wife who doesn't know this and won't know this going into seeing the BDM.

-Taylor

http://norcalriviera.blogspot.com
http://www.cafepress.com/norcalriviera

River: "So we'll integrate non-progressional evolution theory with God's creation of Eden. Eleven inherent metaphoric parallels already there. Eleven. Important number. Prime number. One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. Noah's ark is a problem."

Taylor it would be a kindness to your wife to give her some kind of warning. A similar incident happened to me years ago when a favorite character of mine was killed on Hill Street Blues and my husband didn't warn me. I was not very happy with him. I don't know really what is the best way to handle it, I only know that at the time I would have preferred a hint, at least, of what was coming.

Also, my fellow coworker and Browncoat has suggested to me that Joss could do prequels and bring back both Wash and Book. I would be so very happy if he did that.

Anyway, thank you for responding and your very kind words.

"And I'm thinking you weren't burdened with an over-abundance of schooling."

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Friday, August 12, 2005 2:41 PM

KELKAT1

Quote:
Originally posted by DucesTecum:
Taylor it would be a kindness to your wife to give her some kind of warning. A similar incident happened to me years ago when a favorite character of mine was killed on Hill Street Blues and my husband didn't warn me. I was not very happy with him. I don't know really what is the best way to handle it, I only know that at the time I would have preferred a hint, at least, of what was coming.

Well, that gets a might tricky, but for them that think someone might need some "warning" concerning Wash and/or Book's deaths...

Maybe just a subtle "you know, this is a Joss Whedon film, and with his history of killing characters, maybe we should be prepared..."

*********************************
Some people juggle geese!- Wash

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Friday, August 12, 2005 3:12 PM

DARKJESTER

Duces, can I add my 2 cents' worth here?

I read ALL the reviews from the first American screenings before going to the second round, so I knew what was coming, and about when. And it STILL shocked the hell out of me. I was caught up in the movie, and then about two seconds before Wash's death, I realized that THIS was IT, and I started squirming back in my seat, unconsciously trying to get further from the screen. And the next few minutes of the movie are pretty hazy in my memory.

But I'm going to go on opening night (hopefully in NC!) and several nights thereafter, at least once a week while it plays.

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

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Saturday, August 13, 2005 6:49 AM

BATMARLOWE

Boy am I sorry I read this thread. I've been trying to be as spoiler free as I can. So why would I read a thread that said "Major Spoilers"?

The short answer is because I'm an idiot. The long answer will take too long to explain.

But it's my own fault. I just shouldn't have come here.

There was the othe other thread on Zoe and Wash having a baby and I chimed in on that one. But it was theoretical. I was against the idea. Now that I know what I know, I'm all for Zoe having their baby.

I am one depressed Browncoat. Something I really didn't need in my life right now. Anticipating this movie was really keeping me going.

I won't be looking forward to the movie as much, but of course I'll go see it.

It will, however, be with a heavy heart.

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Saturday, August 13, 2005 7:00 AM

SIMONWHO

And yet another person has the movie ruined for them.

I know you put SPOILERS in the title, but you also did all the words in capitals (which is shouting) and you didn't differentiate the word spoiler either (like this: Major *SPOILERS*: Them's Fightin' Words Pahdner!)

There a whole board on the official site for discussing the movie with spoilers. On FFF.net there's been a general policy not to have these threads because it's just too easy to wander into them and just a quick glance does serious damage to the integrity of the movie.

It's not just that they know Wash and Book are going to die, it's also they know the other seven aren't. I watched the last ten minutes on the absolute end of my seat, genuinely afraid that Joss was going to have a real Blake's 7 moment and kill everyone off. But anyone who's been spoiled will know that isn't the case.

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Saturday, August 13, 2005 7:23 AM

BATMARLOWE

As someone who has had the movie severely spoiled for them, let me defend Duces Tecum. Due to the way subject is posted I suppose one could interperet "major spoilers" as the "fightin' words" and not a warning. But I knew what he or she meant. And I read it anyway.

My curiosity got the best of me; I wanted to know what the "fightin' words" were. The first line was about the gross of 80 mil--not a spoiler. The second line was about Zoe and Wash having a baby. I read that thread and it was theoretical. That wasn't a spoiler either.

So I kept reading. It's my fault I did. I was warned.

That's not to say you are wrong about a better way to warn about spoilers or that there is a policy here in FFF.net to not discuss spoilers concerning SERENITY.

But I, for one, knew there would be spoilers in this thread. So I have no one to blame but myself.

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Saturday, August 13, 2005 7:33 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by DucesTecum:
Taylor it would be a kindness to your wife to give her some kind of warning. A similar incident happened to me years ago when a favorite character of mine was killed on Hill Street Blues and my husband didn't warn me. I was not very happy with him. I don't know really what is the best way to handle it, I only know that at the time I would have preferred a hint, at least, of what was coming.

Man, I REALLY disagree...I mean first of all, look how upset you are, you've been upset for months?!
Wouldn't you be happier just knowing that those of us who saw the movie LOVED it? Without getting all upset about spoilers?

But secondly, I had been 'warned' before reading Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix

Select to view spoiler:

that someone would die, and it ruined the book for me. Every single time someone was missing or sick or injured I would freak out thinking they were about to die. I would have prefered to be completely unspoiled so I only had to cry once.

non-specific spoiler reference to Harry Potter & the Half Blood Prince:

Select to view spoiler:

(like I did in Half Blood Prince LOL

At any rate, I am very sorry you got spoiled, I beg you to not go around spoiling others.
The movie is incredible, brilliant, and way more than I every expected...you need to experience it for yourself.

Join my crew: Fairfield Fireflies
(Middle-aged Midwesterners looking for more crew or passengers)
http://browncoats.serenitymovie.com/serenity/index.html?fuseaction=gro
ups.main&searchby=F

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Saturday, August 13, 2005 7:47 AM

SIMONWHO

To be clear, I wasn't having a go at DUCESTECUM, I was just suggesting ways that it could have been better put or preferably done elsewhere. There is no set policy on this, it's just been taken as the done thing so we don't put temptation in the path of the weak.

I just think the best thing we who have seen the film can do is to shut up about it until it has gone on wide release. Several people who, even though they have avoided the spoiler threads, have a pretty good idea what is going to happen. There's people going into topics about whether everyone is going to return for the next movie or whether the reavers are just crazy men and going "I've seen the movie but I'm not going to say anything."

You can spoil by inference, you can spoil by not giving answers, you can spoil by all manners of things. I think we who have seen the movie early have a duty to reveal absolutely nothing about it until October.

Then we can dissect like the most eager Igors.

Oh, and you just spoiled Harry Potter for me too. I didn't know what you said in your post (not the hidden bit, the bit above that, I restrained myself from the protected part) was going to happen but now I do. Bah.

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Saturday, August 13, 2005 7:58 AM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
Oh, and you just spoiled Harry Potter for me too. I didn't know what you said in your post (not the hidden bit, the bit above that, I restrained myself from the protected part) was going to happen but now I do. Bah.

But But
HP and the Order of the Phoenix came out two years ago!!!
I was figuring that if people hadn't read it yet then they were never going to.

I'm very sorry I spoiled it for you...I'll go edit the post.

Join my crew: Fairfield Fireflies
(Middle-aged Midwesterners looking for more crew or passengers)
http://browncoats.serenitymovie.com/serenity/index.html?fuseaction=gro
ups.main&searchby=F

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Saturday, August 13, 2005 8:00 AM

BAYBREEZE1

Just HAD to chime in here.

First, it is unfortunate that some may have not quite understood by the title of this thread. For future reference for those who want to post possible spoilers, whenever my daughter does a thread that contains spoilers she does something this in her post:

WARNING! SPOILERS AHEAD!
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ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO KNOW???
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THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE!!!
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OK, HERE GOES!
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And then she posts the information. This really gives a person the chance to back out.

Okey dokey, now for thoughts on the theme of the thread itself.

As one person pointed out - this is Joss! On one level, anyone who knows his work comes to expect untimely, beloved, character deaths. This is just a small part of what makes his work so real, so great, and so loved by us all - even if we hate it at the same time.

And I believe that a part of this is related not to what Joss particularly wants, but to the actors themselves not signing up for sequals. It may not have been Joss's idea at first (I truly can't believe he would willingly get rid of Alan T.). But I believe from things I've read that Alan was done after this movie. So what better way for Joss to handle that then to give us a HUGE emotional hit.

Someone posted about the movie being an emotional rollercoaster. I second that. There were so many ups and downs, laughs and gasps, cheers and cries in this movie that no one, I repeat, no one, could leave this movie indiferent. And that is Joss. Indiferent is not in his vocabulary. You will FEEL this movie, whether you know about what's to come or not. I admit I didn't know and would have hated to be spoiled for that particular scene. My daughter and I saw a pre-screening in Georgetown and frankly, we were literally in tears. But we would have been just about as affected even if we had known in advance. It is so perfeclty done, because it is Joss. And what more could you ask of a truly great movie, as one that leaves you with actually FEELING SOMETHING. Trust me, whether you know things or not, you will NOT walk out of this movie feeling "meh".

OK, sorry to have ranted and rambled. But I feel so strongly, having seen the movie, that it is truly great and no one, fan or newbie, spoiled or not spoiled, will not walk out of the theater saying to themselves, Oh God, I need to see it again!

Ok, gonna take the idea posted above and grab some beers and watch Firefly again. Why? Cause I can!

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Saturday, August 13, 2005 8:07 AM

BAYBREEZE1

Oh, just had another thought. Ducestecum - you might want to edit your original post to ensure that those who may be confused as to whether there are major spoilers ahead don't go any further. Just a thought!

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Saturday, August 13, 2005 8:13 AM

SIMONWHO

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:

But But
HP and the Order of the Phoenix came out two years ago!!!
I was figuring that if people hadn't read it yet then they were never going to.

Sorry, thought you were talking about Half Blood Prince! Phew! My apologies, I read it then glazed over and tried to instantly forget. Didn't work but I didn't want to study it intently.

I'm not sure if you can do spoilers for HP5 or even HP4 because the movies aren't out at the cinemas and lots of people will be keen to see them yet will never open the book in their lives.

Fools!

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Saturday, August 13, 2005 12:49 PM

WHISPER

I was one of the unfortunate people to stumble onto a spoiler for Wash's death back after the first round of screenings. It upset me a little but i knew that Joss had his reasons and i would find out those when i watched to movie. I saw Serenity on 6/23 and even being spoiled i was still suprised and shocked by his death. (I might have had a slight case of denial going in.) I understood his death though. It wasn't meaningless like so many upset fans are saying.

This movie made me FEEL like no other movie has and i eagerly anticipate to see it again opening night.

www.whispergraphics.net

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Saturday, August 13, 2005 2:14 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I think we can all agree that spoilers are bad, especially for a Joss Whedon production. That's one of the main reasons I was surprised there were so many advance screenings. There was just no way that those spoilers could be kept contained for five or six months. A friend of my son's was inadvertently spoiled here as well, in a follow up post to something posted in the Blue Sun Room. As far as I know my son still doesn't know the spoiler, and I hope it stays that way.

Something from my own experience points out the main reason it is unfortunate that others have been spoiled. I saw Serenity on May 5, and I loved the majority of it, but was totally taken out of the film for the last 15-20 minutes, following Wash's death. Brooded about it for days, vented in several threads over on the UB. Gradually I started listening to others opinions, and felt it was necessary to give the BDM and Joss another chance to woo me. I also got to see a 6/23 screening, and the shock was not as intense, and I was more able to accept the inevitable. While I cannot go so far as to use the term brilliant as so many others have, I do think Serenity is a very, very good film, and most definitely it is one that will have a powerful emotional impact on you.

During some of those discussions on the UB, I was also spoiled for some Buffy and Angel episodes I had not seen up to that point. Possibly the character death that has caused the most stir amongst Jossverse fans occurs in the sixth season. I have since seen that season, and considering that death was known in advance, it had almost no effect on me whatsoever, whereas if I had not known it I am sure I would have been devastated. That death, and I would assume any death in a Joss show, is intended to have an impact, and it is sad that not everyone will be able to see Serenity unspoiled.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Saturday, August 13, 2005 11:51 PM

BATMARLOWE

"I look forward to the day and time that recolletctions of my FIREFLY experience...um...doesn't make me cry. I really look forward to that day."

--Ron Glass

Guess that quote is especially poignant now.

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