Just curious about everyone's thoughts on what adding a big-name star would have done for the numbers by ErinBC

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Just curious about everyone's thoughts on what adding a big-name star would have done for the numbers

POSTED BY: ERINBC
UPDATED: Sunday, October 23, 2005 21:32
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VIEWED: 7315
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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:26 PM

No offense to the actor who played 'the operative' because I thought he was great, but would adding a big name star in that role have improved numbers much? And would it have been worth it? For the sake of example, I'll use Denzel Washington. If he had that role, would it have been good because all his fans would have gone, or would it have been bad because it would've turned into a "Denzel Washington movie" and not been a movie in it's own right, and focus would've been shifted to the big name actor and away from the BDH's? Just curious...

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:46 PM

BATMARLOWE

I think a big name star, particularly one as big as Denzel would have been a major distraction. The non-Browncoat audience would have spent their time wondering why Denzel wasn't on screen more.

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:53 PM

RPLACKETT

In addition a big name star would have boosted the budget up, and whilst Mr. Washington could well have pulled it off, other similar threads have sugested a range of, shall we say, more action oriented artists. Having somone less sympathetic and 'reasonable' as the operative would have drastically changed the feel of the movie. Not necessarily worse but different and we can't really know what that'd've been like.

That said having somone like Laurence Fishbourne(sp?) on the posters looking mean probaly wouldn't have hurt at the box office.

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 12:53 PM

EMBERS

heck, just look at 'Flightplan'...it is doing great box office without good reviews, or very good word of mouth...
it is all Jody,
so I'm figuring if 'Serenity' had had Jody Foster play the Operative, then with GREAT reviews and word of mouth it would have been a total block buster...

but it is water over the bridge..
or under the dam
whatever...

Fact is we've got a great movie, and if it takes some people two years to discover that (when they finally watch the DVD) then that is still okay...

**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse!

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 1:22 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD

It would have given Serenity something that's easy to market. The name of the movie is not very marketable and the premise of the movie is very hard to summarize. The least they could have done with a big star is say "Serenity, starring Denzel Washington or Tom Cruise or Russell Crowe!"

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 1:56 PM

DREAMTROVE

NOOOO!!!!!!

Big names stars are a deathknell to everything we love in fringe genre fiction.

Does anyone remember whoopi on STNG? It's a proven formula for disaster. It would destroy the illusion for me to see an eminently recognizable Denzel, no offense Mr. Hobbs, in that role. I would see Denzel Washington, and suddenly my mind would be dragged back to a hollywood studio, and not on some alien planet. Actually Denzel might be able to convince me we was not Denzel, but Sean Connnery, no offense mr. bond, would not. Most big name actors, like keanu reeves, no offense neo, glare whereever they are.

These sorts of films and shows are a perfect place to showcase new talent. Big talents glares, they make everyone else automatically of subserviant importance, and just generally screw things up.

All that being said, it would have been much less of a distraction as the operative, than say, a member of the cast. I find ben and claudia, as much as I love them, a horrible glaring distraction on SG-1.

Essentially, this would have been a media whore thing to do, and Joss isn't a media whore. Yet. I'd like to enjoy this stuff as long as that remains true.

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 2:00 PM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION

A big-name star in Serenity would be like putting ketchup on filet mignon.

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 2:00 PM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION

...but maybe....

Jessica Simpson as Mister Universe's wife :)

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 2:05 PM

SIMONWHO

It would have made for a worse movie but better box office. However someone like Denzel would have required the box office to have been about $40m better.

I think it would have done that, largely because then the marketing people would have campaigned on the strength of his name, not the "based on that TV show you never saw" strategy that, it is fair to say, drove the mass market away.

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 2:10 PM

BROWNCOATFAN1

i totally agree. it would be very distracting

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 2:13 PM

DREAMTROVE

Jessica Simpson could have played River.

... maybe in Bizarro World!

Joss knows how make a box office smash, he's done it before. He also seems to hate it. Alien Ressurection, which cost $60M and returned $160M, a film which I quite enjoyed, Joss couldn't stand. He ranted about how much he hated the compromises, and the stupitidy of the mass market production. If he wanted to be a whore, he could, and he'd make a lot of money making a mediocre product. I gather that it's much more important to him that Serenity place on IMDb's top 250 than that it make a profit.

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 3:02 PM

OPPYH

I don't think any fans of the show would have wanted it, but if there were a big name star like say Jennifer Aniston, or Nicole Kidman as the operative, it would have added about $25 million to the numbers. Just an estimate, but it really would have brought in the "normal" movie going crowd. I explained to the middle aged couple ahead of me in line what it was, and the lady wrinkled her nose at me and said it didn't sound good at all. Then she asked me who was in it, and all I could tell her was a bunch of tv actors.

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 4:12 PM

VAGRANTSOLDIER

Firefly has been about being uncompromising to the idea, the creation, that Joss gave birth to. For example...when Joss originally pitched the idea to Fox, they said that they did not want Wash and Zoe to be married. They would have rather had the angsty, troubled path toward falling in love that we see in so many other shows today (those that aren't reality television, anyway). Joss told them that they shouldn't pick up the show then. He didn't want to compromise the vision to please the few.

I would have been supremely disappointed if they had given in and brought in a big-named actor. It would have ruined the movie, detracted from it, for reasons that others have already brought up.

Firefly, Serenity, Joss, and browncoats everywhere...this movie and this vision is going to succeed based on its own merit, not on some cheap stunt to wrangle in an unenlightened fanbase.

We do not lower our standards to better our average...

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 4:31 PM

DREAMTROVE

I'd compromise my own principles to see nicole kidman as an assassin.

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 4:44 PM

GIANTEVILHEAD

People worship celebrities, it's sad but it's true. People want to know what celebrities eat, what they do for fun, what they like, what they don't like. Entertainment shows and magazines used to be more about tv shows and movies, now they're all about celebrities. Serenity isn't the only movie that didn't need a big star in it, probably 90% of movies that had big stars in them didn't need them.

"I swallowed a bug." -River Tam

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 5:27 PM

ERINBC

I personally think it would have been a distraction, and would have drawn all the glory from the BDH's to the "big star." I do agree strongly with the response above that the marketing strategy of "go see the movie based on the TV show you never saw that got cancelled mid-season!" was a bad idea. Those who never saw Firefly would assume that the reason the show got cancelled was becuase it sucked, and therefore not see the movie. Who decided on that marketing idea? They should be fired.

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 5:38 PM

GOSHDARNSTUD

We will have a big name star in it, don't forget Nathan Fillion is going to become huge. :) Now if that would happen, I think a sequel would be much eaiser to make. So everyone needs to go see Slither when it comes out!

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Tuesday, October 18, 2005 7:39 PM

BOOKSWORD

I dont think it would have made much difference.

I mean Sereintiy is out there as a concept ( which is why Firefly has followers as fanatical as the Operative) - space cowboys, cannibals and a black Sumarai.

Even pretty mainstream films with big names bomb, If we had a big name on board it would detract from the greatness of the current cast.

No I blame the PR campign, it could have added a big of umph.

Picture posters around town each with a diffent character.

One could have Mal, brown coat willowing in the wind hero like. Gun out and ready.

Captions -

Captain Mal Reynolds

Captain of the Serentiy

Smuggler

Thief

Plans to misbehave

Or another one of the Operative, sword out walking towards the viewer

Captions -

Operative

Agent of the Alliance

Force of Nature

True belivier

Little things like that...

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 1:25 PM

GIXXER

Terrible idea. No big name star has the acting chops to cut it with this cast.

Anyway, they'd just be...there. No reason for them to do anything, but Great Maker help us if they had the urge to do their trademark schtick.

Or worse still, their PA draws a scriptwriter aside for a quiet word -

"Ms Lopez thinks she could have more lines in the next scene, and she has has a few ideas about the dialogue. This cowboy-speak doesn't...etc"

Mr Fishburne would be especially unsuitable, what with his marital situation and all. Much uncomfortableness, I hazard...

Then there's the height thing. (Judge Dredd, anyone?) Maybe not a problem. Tom could find loads of crates in the hold to stand on.

G

Anybody else think Adam Baldwin would have been a natural for Joe Dredd? And that he would have had the class to keep his hat on for the whole movie?

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 4:41 PM

MOOSE

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
Then she asked me who was in it, and all I could tell her was a bunch of tv actors.

You should of said that the guy that played Pvt. Ryan in Saving Private Ryan was starring in it...

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 5:48 PM

EVERYWORLDSPINNIN

I think Samuel L. Jackson as The Operative would have been cool. You could write the opening scene as such:

(Operative kills both security personnel with one swing of his sword)

(Operative looking at TERRIFIED doctor)

Operative
(to Doctor)
Oh, I'm sorry. Did that break your concentration? I didn't mean to do that. Please, continue. I believe you were saying something about "forgot my sword."

-------------------------------------------------------

"The last thing I want is that any of our descendents should look back in some years and despise us for not daring to act when we had so much capacity to act. We must dare to seek how, why and on what we agree. We shall thus be able to join together to look for alternative solutions and new ways of managing the world's challenges. Being diverse is our richness, acting together will be our strength". (Federico Mayor; 02-04-01;
UBUNTU Constituent Meeting).

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 8:01 PM

TUDYKRAWKS

Originally posted by UnregisteredCompanion: A big-name star in Serenity would be like putting ketchup on filet mignon.

i've put ketchup on filet mignon, but i think a name actor, not someone hgue like denzel, or kidman, but maybe a.... casey afleck as mr. universe or something like that wuld've gotten a bit more ppl in the seats. (ok my casey afleck idea is horrible, but i culdn't think of anyone else)

"mine is an evil laugh"

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Wednesday, October 19, 2005 9:54 PM

WASHBURN

One person I could have seen play Mr. Universe would be Jake Gylenhall(sp?)he has played quirky characters before (Donnie Darko anyone?) and he isn't a huge star but he is known face-wise. But other than that? No way...keep the H-town highrollers out of my movie.

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Thursday, October 20, 2005 5:51 AM

CYBERSNARK

The words "Big-name Actor" are a contradiction in terms. Big-name celebrities don't act. They play themselves.

In Serenity, I'm not paying to see Nathan Filion, or Alan Tudyk, or Adam Baldwin. I'm paying to see Malcolm Reynolds, and Wash, and Jayne Cobb.

Well. . . I'm paying to see Mal and Wash, anyway.

No offense to any of these actors, but. . . well, that's it, actually. They're actors. The whole point of having them there is to act. To be someone they're not. Big-name celebs just don't do that --usually, they're not supposed to.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Friday, October 21, 2005 4:33 AM

MER

Samuel L. Jackson. Lol if anybody who watches Family Guy on a regular basis should know what I'm talking about.

Brian became a porn star director. In his first film, Samuel L. Jackson was in it. There was a joke regarding him before they showed him. If I could, I'd quote it.

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Friday, October 21, 2005 8:05 AM

SADLITTLEKING

It would have been good for the box office, bad for the movie (as others have said). I'm sure Denzel Washington would've done a nice job as The Operative, but I honestly wouldn't trade Chiwetel Ejiofor's performance for any big name. The guy just nailed the role perfectly. He wasn't just playing The Operative, he WAS The Operative.

Like someone said, big name actors tend to not be convincing and I don't think that's entirely their fault. Studios would rather have big names than actors who best fit the roles being cast. So the fact that great, unknown actors get passed up isn't really Tom Cruise's fault, it's the studios who feel they need Tom Cruise to get people to see a movie. And Serenity proves that point. The acting is top-notch, the story, the emotion...everything is there and it's done at a high level. The only thing missing from the movie was a big name to get people instantly excited about the movie, not because of great acting, but because of celebrity. And that's a damn shame. Since Firefly, I've always thought that Summer Glau was one of the most talented actors I've ever seen and yet her name can't put butts in seats. It's really tragic.

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Friday, October 21, 2005 8:52 AM

UNREGISTEREDCOMPANION

" The guy just nailed the role perfectly"

Exactly! That role could have been easily screwed up by someone with less talent and a bigger ego.

~~~~~
"Funny and sexy. You have no idea. And you never will."

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Friday, October 21, 2005 8:59 AM

JAYNEANDVERA

There's no doubt a big name would have helped the numbers. But as most of you said making the operative one would have hurt the film. Perhaps they could have done something like Scream where Drew Berrymore dies in the first few minutes. Maybe have a big star with minimal screen time. Sure people may have felt cheated, but they would have seen the movie, fallen in love with it and forgotten about the fact that star didnt play much of a part.

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Friday, October 21, 2005 9:11 AM

SMOKE

LMAO Jim Carrey as the new pilot of Serenity. No offense Wash, RIP.

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Friday, October 21, 2005 9:57 AM

BOBSTER

Big stars are nothing more or less than successful actors. If correctly cast -- and I grant you that's a heckuva "if" -- a big or medium sized star as the Operative or Mr. Universe might well have worked, if people didn't bring the burden of incorrect expectations and simply let these actors do their jobs.

For example, forgetting about the marital stuff, Laurence Fishburne would have been almost too "on the money" as the Operative, but I'm sure he'd have a terrific job and would not have "hurt" the movie artistically one bit, though I'm very partial to Chewitel E and think he was probably a near-perfect choice.

As for Mr. Universe, well, I like David Krumholz, but his interpretation really didn't work, IMO anyway. While Phillip Seymour Hoffman or John C. Reilly, for example, aren't huge draws, they're well known faces who's presence in trailers would have attracted some interest.

And, in STRICTLY dramatic terms, a really big star in this smallish role would not have hurt much, unless they insisted the part be ridulousy beefed up. Baggage and $40 million payday aside, why not Tom Cruise or Jim Carrey or Tom Hanks as Mr. Universe? Might have been kind of cool, actually. I particulalrly get the idea of Tom Cruise playing a guy who's married to an inanimate object....

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 7:03 AM

REGINAROADIE

Since we're on the topic of Mr. Universe, lately I've been thinking that Jack Black could have been good in the role. Jack Black is one of those guys that you put him in anything and he's gold. Hell, his 30 second cameo in ANCHORMAN was the best part of the whole movie.

But as for the topic, yes I think having a big name star in the film would have ruined the flick and made it a jarring experience for us.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
XANDER: (baby-talk) Who's a little fear demon?
C'mon, who's a lit-tle fear demon?
GILES: Don't taunt the fear demon.
XANDER: Why? Can he hurt me?
GILES: No, it's just… tacky.

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 8:34 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I don't care what big name star anyone comes up with, it wouldn't have worked. Our BDHs stellar acting abilities and comaradarie would have made anyone else look like your local dinner theater actors. The casting was perfect.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 11:58 AM

LIMINALOSITY

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
The words "Big-name Actor" are a contradiction in terms. Big-name celebrities don't act. They play themselves.

In Serenity, I'm not paying to see Nathan Filion, or Alan Tudyk, or Adam Baldwin. I'm paying to see Malcolm Reynolds, and Wash, and Jayne Cobb.

Well. . . I'm paying to see Mal and Wash, anyway.

No offense to any of these actors, but. . . well, that's it, actually. They're actors. The whole point of having them there is to act. To be someone they're not. Big-name celebs just don't do that --usually, they're not supposed to.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

I agree completely with your post, with the additional thought that big name celebs might have started out as actors (a good way to get that much notice in the first place is to play some good roles very well). With few exceptions, by the time they get to be as big as TC or Jack Nicolson, they are mostly just protraying some aspect of their own personality. I think Anthony Hopkins probably isn't agile enough to have played the Operative.

I'm very much enjoying some of the suggestions of alternate casting, and in the "picture this" spirit of mindbending:
The Operative:
Johnny Depp
Viggo Mortensen
Clive Owen
James Marsters (no? no other Joss people?)

Mr Universe:
Robert Downey Jr
Bill Nighy (playing it slower, creepier, more thoughtfully)
Evan McGregor
Forrest Whitaker

Bond, James Bond

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 12:59 PM

FOLLOWMAL

I think that the actors that play our BDH would be proud that they inhabit their characters so completely that we think of them as Mal, Wash, and Jayne, etc. and that we appreciate their performances as such.

We didn't need a big star.... we got a GREAT actor who played the Operative.

FollowMal

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 8:31 PM

MOODYLONER

Jennifer Jason Leigh as Mr. Universe's
wife would have been fine for me. But
a big-name star... as a main character, no way! I don't go to movies to see people, I go to movies to be entertained by storyline and
plot. For me, thats what movies are about,
taking you somewhere other than the place
you are at. You know, for the ability
to escape. If a "celebrity" actor was in
this movie I'd probably be doing word-
association. Waste of time.

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Sunday, October 23, 2005 9:32 PM

XEROGRAVITY

What I love most about the Firefly fanbase is this general underlying contempt for the establishment "thing". Nobody says it direct, but if you read between the lines you can see it. Everyone is shouting it out at the top of their lungs. Nobdy listens. Kinda falls on deaf ears.

Hollywood is the whorish godmother of cronyism. Lot's of zero-talent people getting all kinds of publicity and marketing-dollars shovel'd up their whazoo, even when they clearly suck. Part of their strategic plan. Flood the market with garbage so their brand of garbage stands out (even though it truly sucks).

Kill off anyone showing true talent (or buy them out). Whedon is (or was) such a threat. They did away with him quite nicely.... wonder woman? goners?

Whedon's great gifts are incredible script-writing, an absolutely brilliant sense of timing (comic timing -- his dialogue rules!!, dramatic timing ~ used sparingly, knowledge of how to cut film -- leaving very little on the cutting-room floor, etc.), and MOST IMPORTANT to the subject of this thread...

the man can pick out unrecognized talent (hoping for a loyal devoted actor-ress from the throngs of pretty people fit to be on camera). True talent in a world that is totally enslaved by an old guard who hates competition.

Sadly, I suspect, those whom he chooses get stolen away and put in 3rd rate roles (TV or film). Loyalty is lost on them. When you're pretty like they are (photogenic model-types... oh how the camera loves you), all kinds of garbage comes out of the shadows trying to lure you into "bigger, better" things)... (money talks..).

The whole cast of FF were incredible, but mostly because of the fact that they had an ubergenius talent deciding who would play the cast. Sean Maher already bailed out for a contract on Ghost Whisperer.

XG

No such thing as gravity. The "Earth-that-was" just sucks.

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