What's wrong with Star Trek Voyager, and Enterprise? by OPPYH

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

What's wrong with Star Trek Voyager, and Enterprise?

POSTED BY: OPPYH
UPDATED: Thursday, October 5, 2006 18:13
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VIEWED: 5970
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Tuesday, October 3, 2006 5:42 PM

I'm into Star Trek. I love DS9, The Next Generation, and the original series.
Are Voyager, and Enterprise really as bad as most people say. I was looking forward to watching these on dvd, but most of the things I hear about these two series are pretty bad. Can someone give me an idea of what to expect?

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Tuesday, October 3, 2006 5:48 PM

THUNDAR

IMHO, Brannon and Bragga were the Killers of the Trek franchise. They always fell back on the easy way out of everything. They overused the Holo-deck. There was never any real fear of a major character dying. They rehashed old story ideas constantly.

The absolute best season of Enterprise was, sadly, the last. When B&B were in the background. The absolute best episodes on Enterprise were the last ones based in the Mirror Universe.

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Tuesday, October 3, 2006 5:54 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

I was never much of a fan of Voyager, but I did like Enterprise. Though I think the biggest problem with both of them is overexposure. Star Trek has been run into the ground. It needs to take a couple of decades rest and then come back with fresh ideas. But if you like the TNG, you’ll probably like Voyager and Enterprise.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Tuesday, October 3, 2006 6:21 PM

JPSTARGAZER

I love Voyager. It may have something to do with the fact that it was the incarnation of ST that was one while I was growing up, but regardless. It got a little tired near the end, but I was invested in the characters so it really didn't hurt my opinion of the show. I guess it was just refreshing to see a crew in such a radically different situation. Also, I think Voyager was really one of the first series to hint that there were many aspects of the future and the Federation mentality that took away what makes life great (independence, a life without rampant technology, etc.). Just my opinion.

"All I got is a red guitar, three chords, and the truth...the rest is up to you"
--Bono

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Tuesday, October 3, 2006 6:59 PM

ADAMWANKENOBI

Star Trek: Enterprise is my favorite of the Trek series because it seems the most reallistic and is closer to our time period. Everytime I watch an episode of it, I feel the spirit of adventure unlike when I watch an episode of the other Trek series. And I also think Enterprise has the best opening theme of all the Treks, as it best represents what Trek is supposed to be about. I honestly can't see how people say TOS or TNG is better because, let's face it, those two Treks are FILLED TO THE BRIM with cheesy, unreallistic stories. I mean, how many times can you have a mysterious alien entity take control of the ship/posses the characters.

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Tuesday, October 3, 2006 7:24 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

I never really saw either. My old man loved Voyager but didn't care for Enterprise. He pretty much grew up with Trek. He hates Star Wars too which really suprises me since he pretty much loves everything Sci-Fi.

I got into DS9 when it was on earlier in the morning on Spike TV. I think my favorite episode was the one with the tribbles when they went back in time somehow and you saw Kirk and Cisco on the same ship and they actually shook hands and everything. This episode is just one of the many reasons I don't believe anything that I see on TV no matter how real it looks.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Tuesday, October 3, 2006 9:54 PM

ADAMWANKENOBI

Quote:
I think my favorite episode was the one with the tribbles when they went back in time somehow and you saw Kirk and Cisco on the same ship and they actually shook hands and everything. This episode is just one of the many reasons I don't believe anything that I see on TV no matter how real it looks.

"Trials and Tribble-ations"

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Tuesday, October 3, 2006 10:04 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

That's it! Truly awesome. Even if you hated DS9, it's worth a download and a watch.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 7:39 AM

CYBERSNARK

Voyager is good. It had great potential, but usually decided to play it safe. Numerous shuttles were destroyed, critical damage was repaired between episodes, etc. The writers had no clue what to do with the Borg, so Picard's "Great White Whale" was downgraded to Flipper. Plus the series finale apparently happened in some alternate universe where Janeway had lost her self-confidence, Chakotay was a hormonally-driven teenager and Seven was a giggly schoolgirl.

What was wrong with Enterprise: Nothing. My second favourite Trek (after DS9, and that's more a reflection of DS9 than Enterprise). I loved the Xindi arc (and hope to see more Xindi in future Treks), and T'Pol is my favourite character from any televised Trek.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 9:04 AM

ERIC

Even if you say you haven't seen them, you have. You've seen EVERY EPISODE. Because they're all recycled plot lines from previous series. Most having to do with time travel.

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 10:25 AM

FIREFLYGAL

I enjoyed Voyager likely because there was a woman Captain and she was willing to shoot first.

Never cared much for Enterprise, I especially hated the theme. Only good part of Enterprise was seen some fine looking men with their shirts off.

I aim to misbehave!

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 10:40 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

For me, personally, Voyager and Enterprise just didn't have the same spark as the earlier shows. The whole show backstory became too bloated and complicated, and everything just became too safe, even when the crews were supposed to be in mortal danger!

Both shows had their moments, but there simply weren't enough to make me enjoy the show. And I never felt the same about the characters as I did with the earlier shows. I cared about Spock and Scotty and Worf and Picard and Odo and Kira. I just didn't care about any of the Voyager or Enterprise characters.

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 10:56 AM

BWARE42

I liked Enterprise a lot! I mean, I liked the first season and the last. The Xindi arc and Temporal Cold War was terrible. Trek had so many interesting aliens already, I didn't think it was necessary to create a whole new race that had never been seen before in the Trek 'verse.

The episodes I liked explored the origins of the Vulcan, Klingon, Andorians, and Romulans first interactions with humans. I also thought the mirror universe episodes at the end were awesome!

I watched the show from beginning to end - and just when it was starting to get good again, they axed it!

Time for some thrilling heroics.

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 10:57 AM

DUG

One of the things about ST that kills it for me is the lack of development that is often built in. I have heard that in the ST:NG bible there was supposed to be a statement that a person watching only the first ep and the last should not be lost. In other words, no characters grow and plots never get fully resolved. So Troi and Ryker still had the hots for each other but were over it but weren't. When the Borg decimated the entire Starfleet no enemies capitalize on it, etc. And no one EVER gets promoted and leaves the ship.

Another thing that kills it for me is that we always see the universe from the pov of a military ship. There is a vast unexplored culture there. When Enterprise was announced I argued pretty vehemently with my friends that we should see the universe from the pov of a civilian cargo ship...that was before I knew Firefly was coming.

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 11:24 AM

ADAMWANKENOBI

Quote:
Originally posted by Eric:
Most having to do with time travel.

Yep, that pretty much sums up Trek in its entirety. I mean, how many times can you travel back to 20th century Earth?

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 11:50 AM

THATWEIRDGIRL

While not my favorite Trek series, Voyager should be watched. It was a little flat, lots of rehashed plots, but overall not bad. I'm surprised the space time continuum still holds with all the meddling Janeway did. Someone else mentioned that they came to care for the crews of the other Treks and not Voyager's or Enterprise's, that's true for me as well. In Voyager, the situation was always more important than the character development. Personalities would just suddenly be different. Enterprise screws with Trek timelines and canon pretty regularly. It's kinda fun if you forget it's a Trek show. B&B (Berman & Bragga) ruined Trek. I hate to say it, but it's true.

www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
"...turn right at the corner then skip two blocks...no, SKIP, the hopping-like thing kids do...Why? Why not?"

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 12:02 PM

JOSSISAGOD

What's wrong you ask? I didn't see any thing wrong with either series, I've loved all of Star Trek's re-incarnations, and the original, though I grew up on TNG, I enjoyed DS9,Voyager and Enterprise. I also loved the Original Star Wars Trilogy, the new trilogy needed better direction.

Fe'nos Tol
JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

Self appointed Forsaken! Been on the list for a while now!

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"Look at me, I'm STUPID!" The Doctor.

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 12:12 PM

CHRISISALL

I liked Voyager enough to get the Time-Travel and Borg collections, they'll hold me for now; many eps were just okay...not great like the ones on the collections...

Tuvok Chrisisall

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 1:32 PM

LWAVES

Most people have already stated the obvious problems of recycled plots, reliance on holodeck emergencies etc. But both shows do have some good points even if they are problematic.

The EMH in Voyager is a great character, particularly in early seasons. So was Seven later on (although I preferred Kes).

Enterprise had some very good stories and an actor from my hometown!!
The problem with it for me was that it just changed too much from the original series. It never quite seemed to fit (and I really didn't like that they called the ship Enterprise and thereby changed Trek history. All those paintings and models we'd seen in the background of TNG and the movies suddenly meant nothing as there was one ship missing)!

Anyway if you are a fan of the other shows then get these two.

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 1:57 PM

THATWEIRDGIRL

Oh yes, I love the Doctor. He was great..why? because he developed and changed. I like Data too, so maybe I just have a thing for AI.

www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
"...turn right at the corner then skip two blocks...no, SKIP, the hopping-like thing kids do...Why? Why not?"

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 2:16 PM

CHRISISALL

The Doctor's moment in First Contact had the theatre howling! It was the highlight of the film for me.

State the nature of your Chrisisall

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 3:30 PM

BACON

Voyager started out slow to me then picked up as it went on and when Enterprise came along a prequel just did not seem to work. But that's just me.

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 3:30 PM

BACON

Voyager started out slow to me then picked up as it went on and when Enterprise came along a prequel just did not seem to work. But that's just me.

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 3:52 PM

TRAVELER

The one thing that bothered me was the holodeck. It would cause all kinds of problems and they never got rid of it. If I had a device in my car that would cause me to crash every other week you can bet it would be removed. But that is another story.

Traveler

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 5:16 PM

INTERL0PER

Hard to quantify it I guess...Voyager really wasn't too bad, too many of the later eps relied on ridiculously bloated technobabble and pyrotechnics when character and plot could have served much better. Post-Seven Voyager and the first 3 seasons of Enterprise had way too much pandering, although I loved the *stories* that dealt with Seven. The Equinox also stands out for the most part, using established tech and characters for unique effect rather than inventing a new temporal-subspace-transporter-decompiled-quantum-matrix-telepathy-device-of-the-week to carry the story. Enterprise had a real crisis of character, I don't know how they managed to write characters so unsympathetically. Archer being a Proto-Kirk cowboy was one thing, but having him storm through the corridors virtually threatening to jettison the next officer that got in front of him at the turbolift out an airlock got old fast. They got pretty close with Trip and T'Pol near the end, then tossed it all into the eps grid with the final ep. If Travis had ever gotten a tenth of the lines of Archer and Tucker, and got a damn promotion in 10 years, it would have actually raised the credibility quotient considerably. I did at least care about the characters on Voyager; by no means have I seen every episode of either, but Voyager kept me engaged more cosistently over its run despite several "Special Guest Star" debacles. Captain Frown and the crew from Enterprise (and I have a heavy prejudice toward liking Scott Bakula!) lost me by about the third episode. I agree the B and B team is probably most responsible for the last series' shortcomings.

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Wednesday, October 4, 2006 6:41 PM

RAULBLOODWORTH

The first few years of Voyager with the exception of "Future's End", and the one with Amelia Earhart, were pretty bad. Once Jeri Ryan joined the show it statred to get really good. I thought Enterprise started off strong, but after the first couple eps. I stopped watching. I tuned in again for the last season and thought it was much better than the previous seasons. In a Mirrior darkly pt I and II as well as the Augments story line were brilliant.

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Thursday, October 5, 2006 4:04 PM

OPPYH

I'll definately try Voyager. Of all the Trek series Voyager has by far the greatest opening theme I have ever heard. Truly epic.
I have seen a few episodes, and they weren't bad, just average. It might take some time getting used to the crew though.

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Thursday, October 5, 2006 4:20 PM

ATIGDNG

Actually I really only liked Star Trek Voyager and Enterprise, the others not so much.

2 cents

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Thursday, October 5, 2006 4:34 PM

CYBERSNARK

Quote:
Originally posted by BWare42:
Trek had so many interesting aliens already, I didn't think it was necessary to create a whole new race that had never been seen before in the Trek 'verse.

Well, the Xindi were cool mainly in being a showcase of the various types of Trek aliens: The primates (humans-with-bumpy-foreheads/cheeks/noses/ears), the reptilians (full-head/body makeup), the arboreals (full-head/body with fur [which is much more difficult than scales, from an FX standpoint]), the aquatics (CG in a CG environment, added via green-screen), and the insectoids (cg interacting with the actual set), were every makeup/effects trick Star Trek has ever used. I was hoping that we'd see the avians in flashback or something, and they'd be Farscape-style animatronics (which Trek has never done).

Plus, the Xindi races being at each others' throats was a good analogy for what Archer would be dealing with in S4, trying to unite various hostile races into the first Federation. Besides, the really interesting alien races (Borg, Cardassian, Hirogen, Jem'Hadar) couldn't show up without breaking continuity.

(And before anyone brings up the "Ferengi!!!11!" and "Borg!!11!!1" rants, you'll note that neither group really identified themselves or provided any context. They would go down in history [via the logs of Archer & crew] as "unknown big-eared aliens" and "hostile cybernetic life-forms." The word "Ferengi" was never spoken by a human until after Maxia Zeta, and the Borg were first identified by Q. The established continuity stands.)

The main problem Enterprise had with aliens was breaking the line-of-progression. Every Star Trek series prior to Ent had the motif of "take your worst enemy; meet your new best friend." TOS gave us an alien "invader" as first officer and taught us to fear and hate Klingons (and androids). TNG gave us a Klingon security cheif and an android ops officer, but introduced the Cardassians. DS9 made us get to know the Cardassians in the form of Garak, Dukat, Damar, and Ziyal, and gave us the Maquis. Voyager gave us a partly-Maquis crew, and gave a human face to the Borg.

Linearly, the post-Voyager series should've included a Jem'Hadar, or a Vorta, or some "villain" from a previous series as an ally. Instead, by making it a prequel, they had no choice but to go back to a Vulcan, periodic Andorians, and people we already met in TOS. They needed a new race without the emotional/narrative baggage, who could be the irredeemable monsters (and end up giving us a hero like Degra).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, October 5, 2006 6:13 PM

RICKKER

well, I just ran through the post and didn't read so if someone already covered sorry to repeat. After DS9 the behind the scenes guys stopped with the character writing and tried to make the aliens and effect the center. Forgetting what made Trek so good was the characters that drew us in. Each show had its merrits. Enterprize was very good in the 4th(last)season going the route it should have been on to begin with, and the very good character stories. I have met several of the actors of both shows and really like them, it was the decision making folks that screwwed the pooch.

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