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Originally posted by mal4prez:
My feeling is this: Joss would likely only get behind this if there was truly no hope of continuing the `verse in any other way. (Besides the comics, which are completely unsatisfying. IMHO, they don't count.)

So, the question I'm seeing here is: if it was animation or nothing, what would I take? Duh!!

Obviously I'd vastly prefer a return to the live action TV series, or the big screen, but if I can't have either of those I'll take the cartoon. Who knows, if it's successful, it could be a bridge to getting our live series back (probably not what you want to hear, mangolo. Sorry!)

However, I do think you'll have a hard time wrestling the rights away from the f**ks at fox. Even if you manage to get Joss and the actors on board. Have you looked into this problem at all?

Keep us posted!

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I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Originally posted by Mangolo:
We did a rough work up on budget. Our episodes would run less than half of what the live action episodes ran at. The problem is we are not sure we can capture half the Firefly market with animation. Our preliminary market survery shows at least 65% of diehard fans would definitely watch the show. We think that in the general Firefly audience, these numbers might be considerably less.

Your thoughts?

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Originally posted by DonCoat:

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Originally posted by Mangolo:
We did a rough work up on budget. Our episodes would run less than half of what the live action episodes ran at. The problem is we are not sure we can capture half the Firefly market with animation. Our preliminary market survery shows at least 65% of diehard fans would definitely watch the show. We think that in the general Firefly audience, these numbers might be considerably less.

Your thoughts?

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I think this is a significant concern.

One issue that any on-demand distibution scheme is up against is the fact that it's, well, on demand. That is, no one is likely to find it unless they're looking for it. That works fine for the diehards like us. Goodness knows we're looking!

But how will that work for the casual viewer, those four million or so who tuned in to the Firefly broadcasts during its first run? For many of those folks, the show has long since drifted out of their awareness. The lack of a big audience for Serenity was an indication of that.

I don't know what the answer is, but I'll venture to say that a marketing campaign will have to be part of it. So you should plan (and budget for) some kind of advertising blitz -- perhaps 15 second spots during whatever popular SF shows are on the air then, plus online ads that show up in search engines when people specify that sort of material.

That could get expensive quickly, so it should be part of the calculations right from the start.


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I'm pointin' right at it!

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Originally posted by History:
Mangolo,
I also checked out your site and trailer for StangeFrame: Love and Sax
http://www.strangeframe.com/trailers.htm

Very nice.
And was it my imagination or were those Firefly-like class vessels in the trailer and a "save River"-like theme as part of the storyline?

However, if your output for this project is "Fall 2009", a Firefly/Serenity animated project would be many years away, would it not?

Respectfully,
History

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Originally posted by lokie:
I say your on the right beat. I do Maya 6.0 and Lightwave btw :) I wonder if we could put together a group of 200ppl to work on the series. You remember the Halo 2 animations don't you? Well, with grade a graphics, which takes nothing more than time and effort, that which we have :). We could make it look downright real. real enough anyways. If we could get the cast to do voice overs, we could do it as a non-profit thing. That's where the 200ppl come in :P since we'd all just be doing what we can as we can. I believe after a years worth of work on the verse ships and crew, then we could follow with animations every month or so at the very least. Either a 30minz episode every week or a movie every month would be great. But I do wonder about the time it would take to create the verse and the crew, cuz that would be the biggest portion of production. But once we got all that implimented, animating our creations should go pretty smoothly. I'm willing to help anyways, SHINY IDEA!!!

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Originally posted by WildHeavenFarm:
We know that most of the cast does voice acting. Hell, half of them were on Justice League.

I would be all for that if it was done to continue the show and not just cash in on the rabid nature of the fan cult. When you picture it, what style do you see? By which I mean, can you site a current program that looks like what you see?

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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Originally posted by doctroid:
Having watched the trailer, I'd say... Interesting.

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Originally posted by Flyvote:

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Originally posted by doctroid:
Having watched the trailer, I'd say... Interesting.

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Yes interesting.

But not what it takes to do Firefly.

Animate the VERY subtle expressions on Nathan/Mal's face when Saffron tells him he is her wife? No. With any type of animation it would come out anything but subtle.

Show Inara's eyes with animation? The very low signal level she gives Mal when he asks her a question at the end of that episode cannot be done with computer animation. Watch that sequence. Watch here eyes as he gets her to "admit" to kissing Saffron, and the oh-so-slight conveyance of emotion that barely shows when Mal leaves having guessed wrong.

Firefly is full of that intangible level of expression. Can't be done with computer animation.

Your animation, Mangolo, is artistic and impressive. But just not human and expressive. I'll watch what you do, and if it ends up being Firefly, I'll watch it likely only once. Not over and over and um, over...

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Originally posted by Flyvote:
Ouch. I feel like the nail in the coffin.



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Flyvote (version 1.2):
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Originally posted by Mangolo:

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Originally posted by History:
Mangolo,
I also checked out your site and trailer for StangeFrame: Love and Sax
http://www.strangeframe.com/trailers.htm

Very nice.
And was it my imagination or were those Firefly-like class vessels in the trailer and a "save River"-like theme as part of the storyline?

However, if your output for this project is "Fall 2009", a Firefly/Serenity animated project would be many years away, would it not?

Respectfully,
History

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I blame it on the collective unconscious. Shelley and I began development on our "fix everything that is wrong with Trek" show in 1999. No aliens, no FTL, no white male lead whose name starts with J (really think about it SGA, SG1, Jeremiah, B5, STOS, STNG, etc). and of course people swearing in Chinese (damn Joss we were on the same page!!!) We began our ad campaign in 2001, within a few months of our original pitch "You're trapped in a fishbowl without walls, falling endlessly around a flickering candle. No hokey hyperdrives. No Federations or galactic empires. The speed of light chains everyone to the same star: step too far away and the Long Dark will eat you alive." - Firefly came along as the new 'anti-Trek' (NY Times) and we thought we were dead and indeed our chance for a TV series became limited - MTV offered to buy our idea, but we weren't selling - we wanted to make this stuff ourselves! We ditched the TV series and wrote a screenplay that takes place just before the TV scripts. We raised a chunk of change (not the full budget) and went into production in 2004. Those ships were designed in 2001 based on some models we actually bought at that time. (So it is not just our minds tapped into this stuff). There is definitely some similarities between River and Naia, but all written before Shelley and I had seen Firefly (you can check our WGA registration!), but our flick is about fringe musicians and a space trucker named Grenman who hauls them around.




[IMG][/IMG]

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Originally posted by Mangolo:

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Originally posted by Flyvote:
Ouch. I feel like the nail in the coffin.



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Flyvote (version 1.2):
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Don't. We were exploring whether to invest time and energy at this stage or after the film. We will definitely revisit this in a couple of years. Maybe Firefly Season 2 will happen before that!!!

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Originally posted by History:

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Originally posted by Mangolo:

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Originally posted by Flyvote:
Ouch. I feel like the nail in the coffin.



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Don't. We were exploring whether to invest time and energy at this stage or after the film. We will definitely revisit this in a couple of years. Maybe Firefly Season 2 will happen before that!!!

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Ignore the wet blankets.
Invest, invest, invest.
Animation is a completely different media.
And you do animation very well.
If we Browncoats insist on only the live actor tv/film media, we're cheating ourselves of more good stories and adventures in the 'Verse.

If B3 was any example, Browncoats will spend our "greenbacks" on anything that show's love of the 'Verse and keeps us flyin'.

Just do it.

Respectfully,
History

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Originally posted by micjwelch:
I fail to understand why people feel that animation can not do what live action can. In many respects it can do more.

For some reason, I can't seem to get the trailer you linked to come up for me, so I don't know exactly what you have going on there, but from your stills and the enthusiasm you have about your work it looks good.

I'm studying computer animation right now. Believe me, if this were something I had the means to work on, I'd be all over it.

Bottom line - We'd watch it. We'd all watch it. And we'd love it.

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Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
Great. I never figured some of us Browncoats would be so negative about a possible new way to have us some new Firefly, so much so that the whole idea has been squelched. Way to go guys.


Honey, If I could blend up Firefly and find a way to inject it in my veins and cure this gorram itch, I'd do it, but I'd have to go with the naysayers on this one. A big part of the draw was the sex appeal(which would be hard and somewhat awkward to accomplish with anime)not to mention environment and emotional portrayal. I own the graffic novel, and I spent half the time reading it thinking that the way they were drawn was somewhat wooden.

I think I'd be more apt to embrace a new crew(with visitations from our favs, of course) before I'd embrace an anime crew...

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Originally posted by Iremist:
A big part of the draw was the sex appeal(which would be hard and somewhat awkward to accomplish with anime)

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Originally posted by Iremist:
I need actual Firefly not the watered-down version...

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Originally posted by Iremist:
A big part of the draw was the sex appeal(which would be hard and somewhat awkward to accomplish with anime)not to mention environment and emotional portrayal.

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Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
No one is saying you can't have the "real" version if the animated version is made. It might even help the cause.

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In regards to more Serenity/Firefly comics, "We are doing another limited series, me and Brett Matthews are writing a new 3-issue Firefly comic series called Better Days that I’m not positive is coming out in the Spring. I’m not as interested as continuing with an actual series, a long-term comic book because there is something about the process of making Firefly that I’m closer to than I’ve ever been and a lot of that has to do with the actors… the Serenity crew – the way they cohered as a group was unlike anything I’ve ever experienced… If it was animated and they were doing the voices, if it was done like A Scanner Darkly, if it was on radio – all of those things would be interesting to me because I would be able to get the actors. To me, the characters just don’t exist without those actors… I don’t see it being something printed so much as someway to get back with them and continue our party that was our party.” And later, Joss adds, “Shepherd Book’s past would definitely be an element of whatever other story I could tell (with the actors). But ultimately, if I find that this is simply not to be, then, you know, I’ll just go online.”

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Originally posted by shameless:
I dunno, animated seems kinda... eh. Maybe. I dunno how well each character and the chemistry of the ensemble would come through if it wasn't live action.!"

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Originally posted by Flyvote:

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Originally posted by doctroid:
Having watched the trailer, I'd say... Interesting.

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Yes interesting.

But not what it takes to do Firefly.

Animate the VERY subtle expressions on Nathan/Mal's face when Saffron tells him he is her wife? No. With any type of animation it would come out anything but subtle.

Show Inara's eyes with animation? The very low signal level she gives Mal when he asks her a question at the end of that episode cannot be done with computer animation. Watch that sequence. Watch here eyes as he gets her to "admit" to kissing Saffron, and the oh-so-slight conveyance of emotion that barely shows when Mal leaves having guessed wrong.

Firefly is full of that intangible level of expression. Can't be done with computer animation.

Your animation, Mangolo, is artistic and impressive. But just not human and expressive. I'll watch what you do, and if it ends up being Firefly, I'll watch it likely only once. Not over and over and um, over...

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Originally posted by DonCoat:
To all who have complained about the folks who posted responses that were negative on the proposed animated series, I'd like to ask:

Would you rather that people had lied about it, or not posted an honest answer? What possible positive outcome would that have had?

Let's say this thread had been nothing but a pep rally for Mangolo and Co., and that they had jumped into this project with both feet expecting 100% support from the fan community. Further suppose they got Joss and the actors on board and made the series.

Now imagine that the animated series was completed and released, and instead of overwhelming response, fewer than 65% of even the hardcore fans supported it. Where does that leave Mangolo? Where does that leave the franchise?

Far better to give an honest opinion now than a hypocritical (and un-critical) high five that leads to a huge failure. As if that's what we need!

Kudos to those who spoke from the heart in this thread, whether pro or con. We have enough fanboys and fangirls. What we need now is intelligent planners, and they can't function without reliable information.

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I'm pointin' right at it!

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I got some Serenity money, and it's basically a few sheets of printed paper that's toitally unimpressive.

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