Firefly Sets Yet Another Record! by 6ixStringJack

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Firefly Sets Yet Another Record!

POSTED BY: 6IXSTRINGJACK
UPDATED: Thursday, February 22, 2007 16:07
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 42705
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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 5:32 PM

It's only been a few weeks since Muslix64 bypassed HD DVD's DRM protection and now it appears the first HD DVD movie has made its way onto BitTorrent. The movie of choice is the sci-fi flick Serenity, which weighed in at 19.6GB. The .EVO file is playable on most DVD software packages like PowerDVD, the question is will people be willing to download such a hefty file and how will the Hollywood honchos respond. Either way it looks like it's score 1 for the Pirates, 0 for DRM. – Louis Ramirez

First Pirated HD DVD Movie Hits BitTorrent [Ars Technica]

See more here: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070115-8622.html

Say what you will about pirating, but being a browncoat (see: pirate), I'm quite happy about it. I think it's quite an honor and good advertisement for Serenity that it was the first choice for the first hacker to successfully hack DRM on the new technology.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 5:59 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I wish you hadn't given this information, and hopefully very few people take advantage of it. Anything that keeps people from buying official Universal DVDs is not good.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 6:00 PM

CMOTD

Will this reduce the number of serenity DVDs sold by Amazon.com?

Takes more than combat gear to make a man
Takes more than a license for a gun
Confront your enemies, avoid them when you can
A gentleman will walk but never run

-Sting, An Englishman in New York

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 7:04 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Whatever man... I was waiting for the haters to come out.

If anything this will bring more people to us and they'll see that maybe there's still a chance to buy the show to see more. That's what happened to me. I did the same thing with Arrested Development. I had already downloaded the first two seasons of that show, but when I found out FUX was going to cancell it, I dropped $60.00 on their website that I didn't need to drop on the DVDs. Sure, not everyone who downloads it is going to buy it, but it's still a higher percentage of people who would have had they'd never seen it at all. It's rather like cold calling in that regards, although this is free advertizing and it's a product that people will want. This technology is here to stay. Hackers will always find workarounds.

Don't be an Alliance-bot.

I'm not getting into another argument about the virtues of Piracy and just how wrong your train of thought is and how Alliance-like you sound when you say such things as I've been over this all before.

I think it's a beautiful thing that the only "real-life" pirates left in this world chose Serenity to be their flagship "F

YOU!" to DRM, HDDVD, BlueRay and the MPAA in this, the next round of entertainment butchering.

Can't stop the signal bro.

Just for you, here's a little bump on the thread.

CMOTD - There has never been any evidence that the ability to download movies or music online has reduced the number of DVDs or CDs of quality goods in the stores. (read: QUALITY goods)

If the CD's only have one good song on them, that's a different story altogether and those Artists are getting screwed by legal downloading vendors such as ITunes just as much as illegal sites. Who is going to drop $16.00 on a CD when they can pay $0.99 for a song. Anything the RIAA or MPAA has said about piracy has nothing to do with them looking out for the interests of the artists. This is just a ploy to guilt people into buying 14 crap songs to get the one good one you were looking for to help their bottom line. They figured out that it wasn't working so they turned on their own artists they supposedly cared so much about and started selling their songs for a buck a piece.

Piracy gives you a choice to support what you really like. Piracy of CDs and DVDs is like giving people a vote as to what they like and support. If they really are a fan of Firefly/Serenity, they will buy a copy of the show/movie. If not, then I don't want them spending money on something they think is crap after they have plunked down the money and watched it. Wouldn't that just be fodder for negative feedback of this great show?

Don't kid yourself... though we love this show, there will always be haters.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 7:32 PM

BABYWITHTHEPOWER

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
I wish you hadn't given this information, and hopefully very few people take advantage of it. Anything that keeps people from buying official Universal DVDs is not good.

Too many of you are thinking that stealing this movie is going to hurt the chances of a sequel. Well, considering Serenity already made the money Universal said was required to consider a sequel, and they haven't talked word one with Joss, I'd say you're holding out for a train that aint coming. But I digress, those of you that feel that this will hurt a sequel are obviously not seeing the big picture. Think about it, the time necessary to crack the DRM protection on a brand new technology is astronomical. Serenity was popular enough that this guy cracked the code on Serenity over every other HD movie out there. And at a whopping 19GB in size, it will take dedication from anyone wanting to download it. And if you don't think execs pay attention to stuff like that you're wrong. What's worth stealing is worth making more of.

This is the beginning of a new era of piracy, and it's only right that Serenity stands at the threshold. Our Captain would be so proud.

And in the words of reavers_ate_my_dvd on gizmodo:

You gotta love that the first pirated HD DVD is the one about space pirates who broadcast a video that the government wants to keep secret.

Can't stop the signal.

Can't stop the signal is right.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'll be in my bunk.
XO of the 76th Battalion http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html
http://www.myspace.com/babywiththepower

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:17 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Heard about this earlier today off of /. Quite frankly, all this has done is prove what everyone (including me) said about DRM. Namely, that it just won't work. In fact, there is exactly no way to secure this type of medium.

What really needs to happen, is for companies to stop stealing our fair use rights by using these "techniques" and just cope with the world as it sits today. Basically, they need to figure a way so that they take advantage of this tech, instead of fighting against it.

If they continue to fight against it, they will lose i.e. I can write code way faster than they can make laws.

As for its effects on sales... Well they screamed bloody murder when Beta/VHS/CD's/DVD's/etc came out and became recordable. They said it'd be the end of the recording/movie industries. Well, that didn't happen. So, why should I believe them this time?

IMO, if they want to get good sales, they should do the stunning move of making a quality product. Something which has been severely lacking in the past decade (arguably more).

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:06 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Heard about this earlier today off of /. Quite frankly, all this has done is prove what everyone (including me) said about DRM. Namely, that it just won't work. In fact, there is exactly no way to secure this type of medium.

What really needs to happen, is for companies to stop stealing our fair use rights by using these "techniques" and just cope with the world as it sits today. Basically, they need to figure a way so that they take advantage of this tech, instead of fighting against it.

If they continue to fight against it, they will lose i.e. I can write code way faster than they can make laws.

As for its effects on sales... Well they screamed bloody murder when Beta/VHS/CD's/DVD's/etc came out and became recordable. They said it'd be the end of the recording/movie industries. Well, that didn't happen. So, why should I believe them this time?

IMO, if they want to get good sales, they should do the stunning move of making a quality product. Something which has been severely lacking in the past decade (arguably more).

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

'Nuff Said!

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:15 PM

DARKFLY

Cool to have a record but since its illegal I wouldn't do it.You know if we all bought Serenity/Firefly merchandise for ourselves & for other people's birthday & christmas presents every year then maybe in 2 years Universal might realize that they've made a bundle on Serenity merchandise & might consider making film since if you add the film box office($39 million) plus DVD sales($8-13 million?) & Books & other stuff(a few million maybe) then for Universal Serenity has made $52-55 million maybe.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Things are about to get interesting...Define interesting...Oh GOD oh GOD we're all going to die.

Go to

to see my cool trailer.

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:26 PM

ROY

I'm with the hackers on this sort of stuff. I see no difference between getting a torrent copy and recording a show from the TV. If you really like the product you'll most likely still go out and purchase the original. Many a time I've recorded a movie, enjoyed it and subsequently gone out and bought the original.

Why is it that sellers don't want you to try before you buy ? Simple, if it turns out to be crud you won't buy it, so its in their interest not to let you determine its crud before you part with the cash. As a result people who don't know about Serenity (and there's a hell of a lot of them) will not part with their cash based on a fancy cover, they'd be more inclined if they could try before buying - here's an opportunity for some to do just that. A lot of people will not part with the cash to buy Serenity or any other show because they are fed up with being burned, letting them try first will get people to watch who otherwise would walk right by it.

Serenity is a quality product, those who like the download will consider buying the original - some won't, but many will. Note that much of the bruhaha over torrents is from the media companies, I don't hear as much bleating from the software world though they are probably hit harder, I guess they've learned to adjust to it.

The suits will notice this & probably track whats happening with the torrents, if the demand is big enough they'll see a market to be exploited and that gets us a little closer to Season 2.

If misbehaving is what it takes to get their attention, then lets be bad guys. :fork

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:31 PM

SHAMELESS

Well.
Hmm.

The fact that it's the first ever HD DVD (or just movie? Can we just say movie?) to get sneaked onto BitTorrent is real shiny! I do, however, have mixed feelings.
1. "You gotta love that the first pirated HD DVD is the one about space pirates who broadcast a video that the government wants to keep secret.

Can't stop the signal."
This is just awesome. So awesome, in fact, that I'm putting it in my signature.
2. WE'RE POPULAR! LOOK AT US GO! WOOO!
3. Shit, what about DVD sales?
4. The more lists the Browncoats top, the more likely it is that people will find out about Serenity/Firefly, become fans, and buy merchandise.
5. Or they'll just download everything illegally because I'm PARANOID and there'll never be a sequel!
6. Judging by the majority of Browncoats (and even just normal (not rabid) fans, like my lazy AND cheap friend who STILL bought the DVDs), most Firefly lovers will probably buy the stuff.

So, in the end, my need to convert people wins over my fear of DVD sales being hurt. And just for the record? I know that Serenity's in the black (financially), and I know that Universal hasn't approached Joss about a sequel - but gorramit, there's a limit to how much money can be made before people wake up and feel a powerful hunger for a Fruity Oaty Bar!

------------------------------------------
RPG launcher bought in third world country illegally - $10
Landmines - $50 per
Attack/track dogs bred 1st class - $250-500 per
Highpowered assault rifles - $600 per
The look on your face when I show up on your doorstep with a bigfoot - ... Priceless

When watching Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban in theaters:
In the Shrieking Shack, with Sirius Black (Quote #1) and Harry Potter (Quote #2):
"It's Jesus!"
"Harry Potter's the AntiChrist!"

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 2:22 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Here's hoping that the BDM being up on Bit Torrent will lead some new people to buy the dvd and join the browncoat ranks.

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!

[img]

[/img]

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

Color Sergeant

[img]

[/img]

http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 3:01 AM

SHINYED

I guess I'm from another generation I suppose, but stealing is stealing...period! I know in today's world the young folks out there are quite used to downloading, copying, burning, etc etc just about every form of entertainment there is.... they feel they have a "right" to get whatever they want, regardless of any ability to pay for it, and without any remorse for stealing.

Some friendly advice from an old geezer....never steal, never be dis-honest, & always work hard. The "things" you obtain in life by working & paying for them are the most rewarding.

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 4:57 AM

DONCOAT

Well, for myself... since I already bought the HD-DVD of Serenity, I would feel no guilt about downloading this. Well, I might feel guilty about the heavy burden on my poor router.

I don't have an HD player yet (I'm waiting until the dual players come out so I can play either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray). It would be nice to be able to play the movie I own, now, wouldn't it? But AFAIK there are no HD-DVD drives for PCs available yet, at least not reasonably-priced ones.

As for pirating overall, I am in the mixed-feelings category. I deeply resent DRM and its horrendous impact on usability. For example, people are having a hard time setting up systems that connect HD players to HDTVs through an A/V receiver (using a digital link rather than analog/component video), because the player doesn't get the necessary handshake to the display. Ridiculous.

Further, I firmly believe that most people who pirate content (movies, music, or whatever) would never have paid for it in the first place, so the loss to the provider is minimal and probably offset by increased sales to those who found that material via the pirate channel, then bought legit copies and/or more of the same.

I'm an example of that, my own self. I've downloaded quite a bit of music from Usenet groups, but most of it is stuff I'd never buy, or stuff I already own on records, tapes, or CDs but didn't want to go through the hassle of ripping to mp3. There are definitely cases where I've bought CDs I never would have purchased if I hadn't found the artist online first.

And that's where I may differ from some other folks -- if I download something on the "black market" and find I like it and play it a lot, I make it a point to buy a legal copy. Part of that is because the CD almost always sounds better than an mp3 rip, but it's also to support the artists that I like.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 5:50 AM

MIGHTYROAR

Quote:
Originally posted by babywiththepower:
Well, considering Serenity already made the money Universal said was required to consider a sequel,

Did it? How much has it made, and how much were Universal after?

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 6:55 AM

CMOTD

they were after 40 million. I read that Serenity only made 25 million at the box office. How acurate is that figure?

Takes more than combat gear to make a man
Takes more than a license for a gun
Confront your enemies, avoid them when you can
A gentleman will walk but never run

-Sting, An Englishman in New York

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 6:59 AM

DEEPGIRL187

Quote:
Originally posted by DonCoat:
I'm an example of that, my own self. I've downloaded quite a bit of music from Usenet groups, but most of it is stuff I'd never buy, or stuff I already own on records, tapes, or CDs but didn't want to go through the hassle of ripping to mp3. There are definitely cases where I've bought CDs I never would have purchased if I hadn't found the artist online first.

And that's where I may differ from some other folks -- if I download something on the "black market" and find I like it and play it a lot, I make it a point to buy a legal copy. Part of that is because the CD almost always sounds better than an mp3 rip, but it's also to support the artists that I like.

Here, here, DonCoat. I download MP3's, and it often leads to me buying the CD. If I do so, then I delete the MP3 from my computer. If I couldn't download MP3's, I'd be less likely to buy CD's, because I rarely listen to the radio or watch music videos.

I do want Serenity to be promoted by more legitimate means. This will make a sequel more receptive to the powers that be. But I also understand the feelings of people that buy a HD-DVD and can't watch it because it's not compatible with whatever. Fair use is fair use, and it's high time that those hundans stop stealing our lawufully given rights.

*************************************************

"I suppose if we couldn't laugh at things that don't make sense, we couldn't react to a lot of life."

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 8:02 AM

ADAPA

Quote:
Some friendly advice from an old geezer....never steal, never be dis-honest, & always work hard. The "things" you obtain in life by working & paying for them are the most rewarding.

True but I'm tired of buying stuff & being disapointed. I'd rather give it a quick listen/watch then, as DonCoat said, pay for the good copy for my collection. We just have to have faith that people who download will become browncoats.

It is an honor to be the first--

Crimson Dark

http://www.davidcsimon.com/crimsondark/index.php?view=comic

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 8:16 AM

CAPTAINJOSH06

I don't like Pirating, not only does it destroy the Industries, but this means that their will be a reduction(flux) in Official Serenity sales.
So anyone who wants to create a large income for the Industries and make them realise this is a very Popular Film/TV series, any of those plans could be seriously hindered.

This Bittorrent is not good and we should do well in making sure it is not hosted on any other Illegal download sites.

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 8:47 AM

RAZZA

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyEd:
I guess I'm from another generation I suppose, but stealing is stealing...period! I know in today's world the young folks out there are quite used to downloading, copying, burning, etc etc just about every form of entertainment there is.... they feel they have a "right" to get whatever they want, regardless of any ability to pay for it, and without any remorse for stealing.

Some friendly advice from an old geezer....never steal, never be dis-honest, & always work hard. The "things" you obtain in life by working & paying for them are the most rewarding.

Ed:

I hear you wholeheartedly about stealing. I would submit that the only one's stealing in this case are the movie studios. What else do you call selling materials at exorbitant rates that would elicit a healthy profit at half the price? Regardless, I don't see pirating the items as stealing, so much as borrowing a friends copy before deciding to spend the dough on your own copy. I torrented every episode of the original Firefly series, so by your definition I'm a thief who stole from Fox Studios. Wrong again, I also bought two sets of the Firefly DVD's. Why, because the show was great and while I had every episode already, I wanted the actual DVD which has so much more to offer than shoddy bitorrent files. If movie and television producers put a decent product out there, they will make money on it, as evidenced by the fact that they still seem to make money hand over fist despite the easy availability of pirated material.

-----------------
"There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration."
---Andrew Carnegie

"Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly."
---Roger Ebert

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 8:52 AM

RAZZA

Quote:
Originally posted by CaptainJosh06:
I don't like Pirating, not only does it destroy the Industries, but this means that their will be a reduction(flux) in Official Serenity sales.
So anyone who wants to create a large income for the Industries and make them realise this is a very Popular Film/TV series, any of those plans could be seriously hindered.

This Bittorrent is not good and we should do well in making sure it is not hosted on any other Illegal download sites.

Captain:

So show me all the movie studios and record producers who have been going out of business as a result of bitorrenting? You can't because there aren't any. The industry is healthy and vibrant despite bitorrenting. How can this be, if, as you say, the industry is being destroyed? The only pirating I have a problem with is the mass piracy you see done on a huge scale in countries such as China. Bitorrenting is akin to letting a friend borrow an old vinyl LP to record on a cassette tape. It hurts no one, in fact there have been studies that show that the record industry's profits grew in cities where such services as napster and bitorrenting were widely used.

-----------------
"There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration."
---Andrew Carnegie

"Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly."
---Roger Ebert

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 9:02 AM

WINDIE

DonCoat,

If you really want a reasonably priced HD drive the xbox360 one works fine with an XP PC.

Just for info.

As for the torrent thing I neither care or am concerned. As far as I can see non of the so called big wig's at any of the studios care about their products enought to carry things through to a conclusion. The number of shows that have been cancelled over the last couple of years is quite shocking.

All that studios/tv stations appear to be interested in are either so called reality shows or long winded/ lets drag this out things like lost ( I enjoyed the first season but bloody hell the writers must be on acid or something for the rest of it). Any way tiny rant over.

Why have they taken the sky from ME

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 9:03 AM

SHINYED

Quote:
Originally posted by Razza:

I hear you wholeheartedly about stealing. I would submit that the only one's stealing in this case are the movie studios. What else do you call selling materials at exorbitant rates that would elicit a healthy profit at half the price? Regardless, I don't see pirating the items as stealing, so much as borrowing a friends copy before deciding to spend the dough on your own copy. I torrented every episode of the original Firefly series, so by your definition I'm a thief who stole from Fox Studios. Wrong again, I also bought two sets of the Firefly DVD's. Why, because the show was great and while I had every episode already, I wanted the actual DVD which has so much more to offer than shoddy bitorrent files. If movie and television producers put a decent product out there, they will make money on it, as evidenced by the fact that they still seem to make money hand over fist despite the easy availability of pirated material.

I would not consider borrowing someone else's products for your use stealing, and I do believe in a "test drive" for things that I want to buy. I suppose I'm too old and out of the loop to really keep up with today's technological options for obtaining free material....so don't think I'm trying to be a goody two-shoes, because I'm not. I just know that somewhere, somehow, someone has to pay for things...usually me I guess.

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 9:34 AM

CAPTAINJOSH06

Im looking on the long term side. If more people begin buying Illegal Copies of DVDs and Cds etc..., the record companies will eventualy go bust, investing in things which will in a short time people will get for cheep or almost free from download sites.

There is an even balance in the Record industry and if Piracy goes up, the balance will shift.

Im not normaly bothered, but in the browncoat world, Serenity going on Pirate copies is not an entirely good idea.
People swapping films or copying films for friends is in affect just as bad, but not on a wide scale like some Pirate set ups.

-CaptainJosh

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 9:47 AM

DAREDEVIL

ok emmmmmmmmmmmmm at least they set another record

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 9:47 AM

DAREDEVIL

ok emmmmmmmmmmmmm at least they set another record

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 10:21 AM

RAZZA

Quote:
Originally posted by CaptainJosh06:
Im looking on the long term side. If more people begin buying Illegal Copies of DVDs and Cds etc..., the record companies will eventualy go bust, investing in things which will in a short time people will get for cheep or almost free from download sites.

There is an even balance in the Record industry and if Piracy goes up, the balance will shift.

Im not normaly bothered, but in the browncoat world, Serenity going on Pirate copies is not an entirely good idea.
People swapping films or copying films for friends is in affect just as bad, but not on a wide scale like some Pirate set ups.

-CaptainJosh

CaptainJosh:

I appreciate your concern for the beleagured entertainment industry, but I submit that if they are unable to adapt to a changing world, they don't deserve to survive. I-Tunes has demonstrated what a successful business model offering music and media online can be, but instead of embracing and profiting from this success, the entertainment industry remains frightened by it. Artists by and large aren't concerned by people downloading their creations online. Hell, many artists offer free downloads of their music on their websites. They do this because it means they can distribute their works without the vaunted entertainment industry as a middleman sucking them dry on the coat tails of their talent. The Entertainment Industry needs to realize that there is huge money to be made offering these services to customers at a reasonable price. Piracy would be non-existent if such an alternative existed. I would much prefer downloading a quality product from the licensed manufacturer at a reasonable price to rolling the dice on a dubious pirated copy. Unfortunately, the industry is still under the mistaken belief that the only way they can continue to make money is to increase their prices and gouge the heck out of people who aren't able to take advantage of the pirating universe or who feel bad about "stealing" from the poor helpless Entertainment Industry. Sorry, I don't buy it, they only have themselves to blame!

-----------------
"There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration."
---Andrew Carnegie

"Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly."
---Roger Ebert

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 10:54 AM

CAPTAINJOSH06

When you place the argument in that context then I agree, but as you have said Piracy isnt good and the Industry must adapt to eliminate the threat of illegal copies.

How ever, it depends on what you mean on reasonable prices, as Most Official things I see online are at lower prices than if you were to buy it off the shelves.
I bought a game off the shelves for £25 and saw that it could be bought from the internet for around £15 to £20. I honestly thought the game would cost £30+ as it was new, but it didnt.
Now such gaming companies like EA experimented with downloadable games. Personaly it was not a good thing as you had to use a software called EA downloader, and I blieve you pay once and can download the game again if u loose it using your account, how ever if you loose your account, then you got to rebuy the download....

I know games are not Films and so on, but changing the Industry in itself is also a very risky business and a gamble.

-CaptainJosh

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:00 AM

MONKSDAD

The story hit IMDB today... Any pub is good pub

http://imdb.com/news/sb/2007-01-17/

"And I think calling him that is an insult to the psychotic lowlife community."

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 11:10 AM

RAZZA

Quote:
Originally posted by CaptainJosh06:
When you place the argument in that context then I agree, but as you have said Piracy isnt good and the Industry must adapt to eliminate the threat of illegal copies.

How ever, it depends on what you mean on reasonable prices, as Most Official things I see online are at lower prices than if you were to buy it off the shelves.
I bought a game off the shelves for £25 and saw that it could be bought from the internet for around £15 to £20. I honestly thought the game would cost £30+ as it was new, but it didnt.
Now such gaming companies like EA experimented with downloadable games. Personaly it was not a good thing as you had to use a software called EA downloader, and I blieve you pay once and can download the game again if u loose it using your account, how ever if you loose your account, then you got to rebuy the download....

I know games are not Films and so on, but changing the Industry in itself is also a very risky business and a gamble.

-CaptainJosh

Captain:

I suspect we agree more than disagree on these issues, but your example is indicitive of how the entertainment industry still hasn't figured it out. EA is one of the worst offenders of this shortsightedness. They have done nothing but put up obstacles for their titles when they try to bring them to the very successful xbox live experience, for example. Instead of doing what every other gaming company has done and using Microsoft's xbox live servers, EA has insisted on using their own servers for multiplayer games on xbox live. This has caused all kinds of havoc and the result has been a poor online experience for EA titles. Ask anyone who plays them on xbox live and you will quickly learn how much they hate EA and their obstinance on this issue. Why did they make it so difficult for you to download the game, and why the possibility that you may lose your game even though you paid for it? Could it be that they don't have a real committment to this kind of distribution model? Could it be that they have their head up their ass and can't figure out how much money they could make if they made it easier and could assure their customers that when they pay for something they own it? This is what I mean when I say the entertainment industry is to blame for a rampant pirate community, not a bunch of theiving scoundrels who just want free music, movies, and games. Sure such people exist, but the vast majority of people who download entertainment media from such sites are just like me and you. That is, willing to pay for a good product if they offer it to us in a simple interface at a reasonable price. For god's sake how can a bunch of "pirating loafers" figure out how to bring their product to market in a more effective and simple manner than industry itself?

-----------------
"There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration."
---Andrew Carnegie

"Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly."
---Roger Ebert

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 12:25 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Heard about this earlier today off of /. Quite frankly, all this has done is prove what everyone (including me) said about DRM. Namely, that it just won't work. In fact, there is exactly no way to secure this type of medium.

DRM is fairly easy to circumnavigate, for a start the best programmers never write the things, but some of the best untapped talent you can bet are working on breaking it. Whether its software music or film it will be broken within weeks of it becoming publicly available, and in many cases since these are nearly always generic protection routines licensed from some other company they will be broken long before release.

But none of these reasons is why DRM is a waste of time. The reason it is a waste of time is because it doesn't do what it says on the tin, in fact it does the exact opposite.

DRM is supposed to stop or dissuade someone from using/listening/watching without original copyright owner 'permission'. What DRM does is push the price up even further than the already scalped prices, making more people want to break the protection. What it does is merely inconvenience 'legal' users by constantly hassling them, or preventing them from using it legally because, as previously discussed, the routines are crap. I have a number of games for instance that I have bought and paid for that I have actually had to crack because the DRM doesn't work on my machine and it assumes that the disc must be counterfeit.

Meanwhile the pirates are using these things quite happily after breaking the DRM.

So well done to those who have created DRM, you've inconvenienced and alienated people who gave you their money, created more pirates and not harmed them one little bit, and far from dissuaded them.

Good job.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 12:49 PM

MAZAEN

You can make it all seem nice and fuzzy but pirating movies is still stealing. Some actors/ producers get cuts from the movies they produce. So it's really it's quite possible that it this pirating is in effect stealing from Adam, Nathan and Gina and Joss. In a day an age where movie sales are at an all time low due to increased game sales, if everyone pirated the movies, companies would go out of business and we the browncoat fans wouldn't get that unexpected and against all odds Serenity movie.

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 12:51 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by mazaen:
You can make it all seem nice and fuzzy but pirating movies is still stealing.

So's the film industry.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 12:52 PM

MAZAEN

Yes because someone else does it is OK for everyone to do it too. Sorry I don't buy that.

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 12:56 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by mazaen:
Yes because someone else does it is OK for everyone to do it too. Sorry I don't buy that.

No, I'm saying I'm not going to shed a tear for theives getting stolen from, especially when the reasons a vast majority of people do it is because of the actions of people in the industry.

They promote piracy more than anyone else.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 1:07 PM

SLOWHAND

It's kind of ironic to me. They are trying so hard to stop Pirates that the people that buy the things are getting screwed. Here's an example.

I bought a DVD the other day. It had some kind of copy protection on it. I put it in my PC's DVD player, and it wouldn't play. I looked it up online and I found out that because of the copy protection, it would only play on certain, registered DVD players. My other DVDs play just fine, but these would not play at all. (The DVDs are the Justice League series by the way) So, I spent a ton of money on DVDs that I can't watch. Then I hear from a friend of mine that he'll burn them for me cause he downloaded them! So much for copy protection!

So let's review. They are now releasing DVDs that the people that BUY them cannot watch, but people that want to copy and pirate them can.

That seem right to you?

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 1:23 PM

RAZZA

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
They promote piracy more than anyone else.

Hear! Hear!

I absolutely love it when I can find common ground with someone I usually disagree with!

-----------------
"There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration."
---Andrew Carnegie

"Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly."
---Roger Ebert

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 1:55 PM

MAZAEN

No I agree people shouldn't shed tears for movie companies. Movie companies promoting pirating and people pirating = equal mischief.

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 4:53 PM

PHYRELIGHT

*snickers* See what happens when you make a bunch of browncoats all techy??

Though a word to the wise: the money lost in all that hacking is probably gonna hurt Universal (our saving grace) as much as Fox (the evil, lecherous humps). Though, serves Fox right for giving us the one-two around Christmas time of 2002.

_______________________________________________________

The Whedonverse:
Where all the women are strong...
All the men are good-looking...
And, all the children are weapons of mass distruction.

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 5:51 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:

But none of these reasons is why DRM is a waste of time. The reason it is a waste of time is because it doesn't do what it says on the tin, in fact it does the exact opposite.

Well, I'm going to disagree with you here. The reasons I gave are reasons for not using DRM.

But, as you pointed out, they aren't the only ones. Nice additions to the list btw

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 6:03 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by ShinyEd:
I guess I'm from another generation I suppose, but stealing is stealing...period! I know in today's world the young folks out there are quite used to downloading, copying, burning, etc etc just about every form of entertainment there is.... they feel they have a "right" to get whatever they want, regardless of any ability to pay for it, and without any remorse for stealing.

Some friendly advice from an old geezer....never steal, never be dis-honest, & always work hard. The "things" you obtain in life by working & paying for them are the most rewarding.

Not to pick nits, but by definition, since the original owners still have access to what was "taken", it isn't stealing. What it is is, unauthorized copy.

You might say that I'm just mincing words, but there really is a subtle, but significant distinction. For example, if I take a picture of the pages of a book of yours, have I really stolen it? No, you still have the copy. What I've done is unauthorized copy.

Please note that I'm not saying that either is ok. I'm just pointing out that there is a difference. And yes, there is a difference when it comes time for sentencing if you get caught.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 6:20 PM

IVY

Hmmmm, I'm pretty much tech stupid, but my husband is a total tech-head (likely to be found surfing Gizmodo at all hours of the day and night). I just read him the initial post in this thread and it seems he knew all about it but didn't bother to tell me because he thought I'd be bored by the tech talk. (which of course led to tech talk...)

Anyway, we have a really sweet HDTV but my husband absolutely refuses to buy a HD DVD player until one technology wins. (I'm old enough to remember VHS/Beta so I actually understand his reasoning). He said that he was actually going to download the pirated version of Serenity as a suprise to me and to see what the quality looks like.

I am a very law-abiding, rule-following person, but I don't feel bad about this one bit. I've personally purchased about 10 copies of Serenity and almost as many box sets of Firefly (for gifts). I will absolutely purchase the HD DVD when we finally have a player. They are getting plenty of my $$ and will, no doubt, get a lot more in the future.

No guilt here.

Ivy

I've been sane a long while now, and change is good...

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 6:40 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by mazaen:

In a day an age where movie sales are at an all time low due to increased game sales, if everyone pirated the movies, companies would go out of business and we the browncoat fans wouldn't get that unexpected and against all odds Serenity movie.

You ever stop to think why games are up so much and movies are down so much?

Let's look at this in terms of just money.

Movie: $20-30 == 1:20-3hrs entertainment

Game: $30-80 == 8-60hrs entertainment

Also, games are interactive.

Now, take a good long hard look at those numbers. Why, honestly WHY would people stick with movies?

And as someone else above said, the games industry is getting hit at least as hard (arguably harder), and do we hear them constantly bitching? No. In fact, the industry is growing.

All the movie/recording industry is doing is crying that the sky is falling.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 7:20 PM

ICHITHEKILLER77

dont lose all hope my people... if universal brings the movie to XBOX live.. yes the XBOX 360 can download movies on HD and on standard form... and if you look it up movies on XBOX live are selling very well... maybe we should make a petition for that... but you guys need to get a XBOX 360!!!

I miss watching the show :(.... but i got my xbox in handy.. so go to xboxsoft.net

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Wednesday, January 17, 2007 8:49 PM

CEDRIC

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Here's hoping that the BDM being up on Bit Torrent will lead some new people to buy the dvd and join the browncoat ranks.

Hear, hear! I don't really like piracy--I know what it feels like for the artist getting ripped--but this is one more way to spread the signal.

Though if the data pirates *really* want to help the cause, they could mass produce illegal discs of Serenity 1 & 2 (the episodes), Our Mrs. Reynolds, and Out of Gas, and hand them out for free. Not that I'm advocating that plan, but if I were Fox, I'd be handing out free samplers of Firefly left and right. It could only boost DVD sales.

"Some things stay with you, 'til the day you die."
On the Drift: Music Inspired by Firefly and Serenity, now on sale at
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bedlambards/from/celtic

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Thursday, January 18, 2007 1:16 AM

LEXIBLOCK

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
I wish you hadn't given this information, and hopefully very few people take advantage of it. Anything that keeps people from buying official Universal DVDs is not good.

Yeah right, because it will have a big effect on wether or not people buy it - no wait, it won't.

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Thursday, January 18, 2007 1:26 AM

MAGDALENA

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"

I really don't go for pirated music or movies myownself because I come from an artistic/performance background and know how much it bites into the rights of the performer - but having said that - if there is something I really want and I have the opportunity to try it on pirated copy I do that and if I like it I will buy it later on...

Lets hope most people are like that and end up loving the whole thing so much that they do what I do to show their support!

...lets hope...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I can put one foot in front of the other - I'm Magdalena, & I'm marching with the 76th" http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html

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Thursday, January 18, 2007 2:28 AM

ASARIAN

Here's how I see it. Since I already bought the Serenity HD-DVD (even though I don't have a player yet, lol), I have no quams with downloading a hacked version, too. I come in it at being able to have access to the material. Had I not bought the HD-DVD, I wouldn't download it. But considering how many legal Firefly boxes I purchased already (for friends and such), I'd say they owe me at least full access to the material. It's like suddenly they invented a book you couldn't Xerox anymore; how silly would that be? If I need to Xerox a page, or scan it, I'll darn well do so as I please.

But back to access to the material, I make some occasional Firefly art; and I like to take screengrabs from the source direcly. Do it all the time. So, now the man says we can't do that no more with HD-DVD? I say differently. :) I paid for it, I want access to it. Period. Way I figure this, with the hacked HD-DVD copy, us people have been given the highest end of screen-cap resolution ever offered a human soul in this crap-heel 'verse.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Thursday, January 18, 2007 4:56 AM

VERTEBREAKER

I'm positive this has been brought up, since I only scanned the topic, but this gets the 'Verse a lot of "free" press. Yeah, there might be some people that download it, but honestly, a lot of people might see the hassle in acquiring a near 20 GB movie. It might get people interested in the movie, though. *shrug*

And, like it's been said, those that DO watch it should be instantly converted to Browncoats.

As much as I dislike anyone who's ever downloaded more than two episodes of Firefly without buying the discs, a few people downloading BDM and spreading the good word will probably do more good than bad.

_______________________________________________________________________

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Thursday, January 18, 2007 6:09 AM

KAIN

This is the real truth of it, if people see something and like it they will go buy it. EVERYONE I have let borrow my Firefly series are now BROWNCOATS. NO exceptions. The fact that Serenity is the first has got to get someones attention. Maybe one of those greedy execs will realize what we've been trying to tell them for years, PEOPLE WANT THIS!

to everyone that knows you can't stop the signal!

Kain

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Thursday, January 18, 2007 6:16 AM

KAIN

Quote:
Originally posted by Cedric:
Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Here's hoping that the BDM being up on Bit Torrent will lead some new people to buy the dvd and join the browncoat ranks.

Hear, hear! I don't really like piracy--I know what it feels like for the artist getting ripped--but this is one more way to spread the signal.

Though if the data pirates *really* want to help the cause, they could mass produce illegal discs of Serenity 1 & 2 (the episodes), Our Mrs. Reynolds, and Out of Gas, and hand them out for free. Not that I'm advocating that plan, but if I were Fox, I'd be handing out free samplers of Firefly left and right. It could only boost DVD sales.

"Some things stay with you, 'til the day you die."
On the Drift: Music Inspired by Firefly and Serenity, now on sale at
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bedlambards/from/celtic

Hey Cedric!
Boy are you right, we heard you guys perform a song or two off your CD and how many have I bought now? 6 at last count for friends and one just for my car! Tell Hawke "Kain and Mimi" say Hi and we hope to see you in Alabama, unless ya wanna hit Tennessee on your tour! :biggrin"

Kain

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