And one shall surely DIE!!! by Duke

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

And one shall surely DIE!!!

POSTED BY: DUKE
UPDATED: Friday, March 26, 2004 14:59
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 8076
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Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:21 AM

On Star Trek, we all know the the bridge crew is safe. They are immune. They are invulnerable. They canot be killed under any circumstances, becasue they have contracts, and they have lawyers.

That's why they have the "red shirts." They are the ones who do whatever dieing needs to be done. And this creates an illusion of danger and suspence.

But Firefly/Serenity is a different animal. I know for a fact that when Mal had Jayne secured in the airlock, every single one of you thought 'ol Jayne was going to kiss the sky pillow.

So I am certain that Joss will want to make clear that his 'verse is defferent from the other sci-fi universes fandom has come to know. His is a real world that is down, dirty, and dangerous.

I predict that one of the crew is going to die.

I further predict that there will be at least two red herrings in the movie. New crew members that will serve to make the fans think that they are the targets. One will be the usual Joss bumbler character who turns out to be the threat. Except the real threat will turn out to be one of our nine. The bumbler will in fact be nothing but a bumbler after all. The other will be the one we all assume to be the red shirt. "Oh, new crew member we have never seen before, he's the one to die." However, he/she will live and one of the nine will die instead.

My predictions, listed from least likely to most likely:

Zoe: Mal loses the last of his army buddies

Wash: Zoe sacrifices him to obay an order from Mal, the shock being that we have seen her choose Wash over Mal's orders before, so we will not be expecting it.

Simon: sacrifices salf to save sister. Crew adopts her.

River: Simon fails to save her, allience finally gets her. Simon is still a fugitive. Joins crew to fulfil his destiny as the greatest criminal mastermind of the 'verse.

Kaylee: simple shock value

Jayne: a soldier's death, goes out saving Simon & River.

Book: revealed to be ex-Alliance, Mal's counterpart at Vally of Serenity who subsequently got religeon. Sacrifices self to save man he tried to kill in the war. This helps to restore some of Mal's faith.

Inara: Succumbs to whatever space-aids disease drove her from her house and causes her to need illicit drugs. Dies just as Mal confesses his love for her, just at the moment when he is getting some of his faith back. Her death further drives Mal from his faith, causing Book to keep his secret a secret but remain on the crew to try and eventually sheperd Mal back to the flock.

"I'll be in my bunk..."

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:40 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

You're certainly keeping your options wide open, aren't you?

Of those scenarios, I think the most likely one would be Inara, not that I subscribe to your overall theory that one of the nine will die though. But it would have a tremendous effect on the audience if one of them did.

It better not be Book, not unless we get his full backstory first!

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:55 AM

ATHERTONWING

I have a theory...it must be demons (sorry wrong joss show)

Considering the entire movie seems to be based upon River why wouldnt it be her who dies? it makes sense , she is at the centre of it all. River sacrafices herself to save serenity and her crew meanwhile showing everyone what sort of real power she does hold. just a thought.

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:04 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

If they did kill one off, I think we could eliminate Mal. It's his ship, and let's face it, he is a draw for a good deal of the female fans.

Zoe? I am thinking not. Zoe is the strong right hand of our captain, and the wife of the pilot. If something happened to her, I think Wash would leave the ship out of grief.

Jayne? Could be, but he is a draw for a lot of female fans, and he is hi-larious. His antics and one liners keep me in stitches.

Simon? Why not? Sure some of the ladies like him, but he is not pivotal to the story other than his care of River. He could die defending River or finding the answers to what was done to her.

River? Could be. We may find out just what her potential is, only to have her go out in a blaze of glory, saving the ship & crew. The show could continue without her, though it would not be as creepifying and morbid if she were gone.

Kaylee? I think not. She is the chipper one. The one that keeps Serenity running. Without her where would we be?

Inara? Possible. Her death could cause all kinds of heartache & unrequitted love issues for Cappy.

Book? I would hope not. Book is the moral compass of our band of big damn heroes. If they were to kill him, I hope it is a long time coming, and only after we find out who he really is or was.

Wash? I don't think so. He is one gorram fine pilot, not to mention husband to the warrior woman. If he died, Zoe might go all vengeful on us and hunt down them as did it. Of course if she survived, she would come back to the ship, but what to do about a pilot?

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:53 AM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by athertonwing:
I have a theory...it must be demons (sorry wrong joss show)

Wasn't it the bunnies?

When I was listening to the commentary on the DVD's, one of them - can't remember who - said that what he hoped was that if the movie was a go, that it'd be successful enough that someone would say, "You should make a TV series out of that." So, I don't really think that I'd be wise to kill any off. Perhaps really hurt one for dramatic effect, but, no death.

----
If you truly love the memory, you must set it free()!

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:05 AM

KINGOFKOINS

Personally, I really don't want anyone on the crew to die...

--------------------------------
It's sickening how comforting the privacy of the mind can be.
"Bible's broken; contradictions, false logistics. Doesn't make sense." - River
http://stripe.filetap.com

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:09 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave

Zoe: I'm thinking not...but it would create conflict with Wash and Mal because somehow Mal would be responsible for it. Could even lead to fisticuffs.

Wash: No freaking way Zoe's sacrificing him for anything. I could see him dying accidentally, caught in crossfire or somesuch trying to save her - after they had a knock-down drag-out spousal spat of course - and thus leaving her consumed by guilt and grief.

Simon: Possibly, but not so much to save his sister as to save Kaylee and prove once and for all his affection for her. Why is it all the noble ones think they have to die for the girl anyways? Living is so much more fun!

River: Possibly. I read a fanfic somewhere once where she sacrificed herself to save Simon from a freak accident and he ended up living with the guilt.

Kaylee: Nope - she's the Willow/Xander of this space opera of ours. Head and heart combined. She dies and the whole thing falls apart.

Jayne: a fighter's death, goes out saving somebody on the crew - possibly Mal. They haven't entirely mended the fence you know.

Book: Still not convinced he's ex-Alliance - that's entirely too simple and WAY too predictable. Could be ex-Independent who struck a deal. The Independent Council official who ordered forces to pull out at Serenity Valley and left the Independent remnants to fend for themselves. Didn't get religion because he had it already - he set it aside for a time in order to serve the Independent Council in the plight of freedom (my own theory, mind). Been out of the world because part of the deal was that he spend a few years under lock and key - supposedly at an abbey, but who's to say it wasn't minimum security lock-up? I do agree that he would sacrifice himself to save Mal - a good soldier who nearly died after the war was over. Can't say whether or not that alone would restore Mal's faith, but it might give Book some redemption.

Inara: This one seems more feasible, especially the Dies just as Mal confesses his love for her part because it would leave Mal in further misery.

Mal won't be shepherded anywhere - that would mean doing what God wants him to do, and he's not doing that for no body, no way no how. He's still way too pissed off for that. Finding out proof that it wasn't God who caused the fall of the Independent movement, but men (or man, whichever side Book was on) would get him started though. Suffice it to say, faith restoration doesn't happen quickandeasy - it takes time and it's something that happens when you least expect it. I could see that as Mal's own personal arc once the series is started again (note my optimism).

Now how come Mal wasn't on Duke's list? I could definitely see a near-death-experience thing happen with him, leading him toward faith restoration. He's still going to resist like gangbusters, of course, but at least he'll start to wonder and that will get him onto the path.

And everything said about the menfolk being a draw for the ladies is absolutely true. Book falls into that category too, by the way. Aside from the fact that the man walks like a king, he's got the "un-obtainable" aspect, very "Spock-like". I'm not speaking personally, I'm just saying...

We have art so as not to die of truth ~ Neitzsche
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:20 AM

STEVE580

Nah, you uys are wrong: Simon is safe. He's the guy the audiance can relate to the most, in a lot of ways; he came onboard at the same time the viewers did. His relationship with River and with Kaylee are very important to the plot. PLus, the service he provides to the crew is unreplacable. Not to mention that much of the show - and, from what I've heard, the majority of the movie - focuses on his fugitive status, and that of his sister. And no way she'd stay on, without him. I can see things happening the other way around, though; but I doubt it. No, if anyone dies, I can tell you who it won't be: Mal, Simon, Kaylee, Zoe, or Book. No way they could wrap up Book's story so quickly.

I see Wash as dispensible. I mean, it would suck; but he's not the only one who can fly the ship. But Simon? No. If Simon dies, I'll only watch the movie like six times. And then only buy one copy.

He won't.
-Steve

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:41 AM

DEANNAMAY

I agree, Simon won't be killed. These people really need a doctor, and they don't make enough money to hire one.

I actually don't think anyone will die. I wouldn't be surprised to see River caught at the end, and them leaving it open for a rescue.

The Joss universe might be a harsh one, but these people stick together, and would rescue the teammember in danger.

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:10 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Couple of things.

Mal has already died once. In "War Stories".

This is Joss we're talking about here. Just 'cause you die doesn't mean you're gone.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:10 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave

Quote:
Originally posted by Steve580:
1) Nah, you guys are wrong.

2) No way they could wrap up Book's story so quickly.

3) He won't.

1) Since the movie hasn't even been filmed yet. Nobody's really wrong - nobody's really right yet either, that's why it's all theoretical.

2) Entirely too true - Book has the most intricate story of anyone on board.

3) Dude, he's Joss Whedon. Of course he would - if he wanted to and if it was in keeping with the story. Proof is in the death count: Doyle (okay, other reasons for that one, but still), Terra, Anya, Cordy...even Lyla. Man's like the weather in Minnesota (and Virginia) only more intentional - wait 5 minutes and he's bound to change something. And yet I keep watching his stuff... that seem right to you?

We have art so as not to die of truth ~ Neitzsche
http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:33 AM

HKCAVALIER

My main objection to these theories is that they all sound kinda clichéd and aside from Nandi's very narratively convenient demise in HoG, Joss & Co. have steered clear of genre dreck. Nobody's gonna die just as they profess their love to anybody, please! And self sacrifice is all well and good, but this show is about survival, about just getting by, "still flying."

That being said, there does seem to be a small, small chance that River will die, because while she lives there is always the threat of the show becoming "the story of a girl with super-powers." What I think will happen though is that River will very much seem to die, we'll all be convinced and then Joss will pull off some ingenious resurrection/reappearance.

Also I think that Serenity and her crew will have enough very powerful enemies by the end of the movie (and the revelation of River's full powers) that they'll need all the help they can get, even from a "girl with super-powers." It would be so cool if somebody could finally, finally make the "psychic crew member" thing work.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 11:31 AM

ARDEN

I'd just like to say hello to you all, as this is my first post on the site and I'm glad to be commiserating with fellow like-minded fans of excellent television.

That being said, I'll now make my opinion regarding character death. While I think it would be shocking and dramatically powerful for a main character to die in the film, I only really see that occuring if the actor playing the role has no interest in continuing to do so. I think it's widely accepted that one of the goals of the film is to re-start Firefly in one way or another. Even if the television series does not return, I seriously doubt that Universal would have no interest in film sequels if the film is even a marginal success, particularly considering that the financial risk of this film is considerably less than your average science fiction picture. It has no expensive acting talent (at least in the principle cast, and I think we can assume that there probably won't be any mega-stars in supporting roles), and the production team should also be fairly inexpensive. Although Joss Whedon is certainly talented, I somehow doubt he could command huge sums as either a writer or director at this point in his career. He's no Speilberg yet as far as clout (though I would wager to say an equal in talent and vision), not even a David Fincher or other sucessful and very creative director of a similar ilk. "Mid-eight figures," as I remember the budget quote to be, is quite low for a fantasy film. These types of pictures commonly go for upwards of $100 million in our day of over-inflated movie spending. (Okay, off my soapbox now)

Ultimately, aside from an actor establishing that he or she did not want to continue in a role, I can't imagine why any given character would be taken out of the story this early on, if they truly are planning to continue in some way. And as I said, even if the TV series does not return, I can't imagine that Universal would give up the chance to create a film series out of this, especially seeing the renewed interest in sci-fi/fantasy and the vacancies left in the genre without future Star Wars (after next year), Star Trek, or Matrix films any time soon.

So there you go. It all comes down to money.

And that they are just too pretty to die.

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 11:58 AM

QINGAI

Quote:
Originally posted by Arden:

And that they are just too pretty to die.

Amen to that!

I guess we're all just so use to death in the Jossverse that it has to be considered that we may lose one of our beloved crew in the movie. It would seriously break my heart. And unless it's a death where you don't see the body (e.g., Alias), there's no magic to resurrect anyone who dies. Well, I'm just gonna be all Kaylee-like and tell myself that no one will die and the movie will be such a success that Firefly the series will be reborn!

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:04 PM

RKLENSETH

I think Joss Whedon would do the film for free if he could. Perhaps even many of the actors such as Adam and Nathan if they could. They love it just as much as we do.

Oh, and play Cantr II at www.cantr.net.

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:10 PM

SBWATCHER

Wasn't it the bunnies?

or maybe midgets?

"What's sanguine mean again?"

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:29 PM

KARENKAY99

Quote:
Originally posted by Duke:

Book: revealed to be ex-Alliance, Mal's counterpart at Vally of Serenity who subsequently got religeon. Sacrifices self to save man he tried to kill in the war. This helps to restore some of Mal's faith.

i've said it before. book worries me. i think his mystery is tied to river. if he is a bad guy then i hope his last act in the 'verse turns that all around and he does right by the good guys. i don't put it past joss to create a character we love and do him in. that's real life. remember doyle, buffy's mom, anya.

"They say the snow on the roof is too heavy. They say the ceiling will cave in. His brains are in terrible danger."

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:57 PM

PYROPHORUS

You people are forgetting the possible death of the most important character.

I don't see any individual dying, every main cast character is an essential part of the overall storyline, none of them have been developed to any point where they can yet be destroyed.

Serenity however is expendable, it is not a living thing, but the crew holds an emotional atatchement to her. We have not seen Serenity in any external conflict as of yet, it could be her undoing.

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:32 PM

KARENKAY99

Serenity can't die. Too pretty. besides that the name of the BDM.

"They say the snow on the roof is too heavy. They say the ceiling will cave in. His brains are in terrible danger."

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:06 PM

STATIC

Quote:
Originally posted by SBWatcher:

Wasn't it the bunnies?

or maybe midgets?

NO NO NO NO NO.

It was MONKEYS! Some terrifying space monkeys!

I can't believe you guys didn't KNOW that.

==================================================
"Wash. . .we got some local color happening. A grand entrance would not go amiss."

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:12 PM

AURANI

Nobody's mentioned the one that seems the most obvious to me.

Jayne dies to save River.

He's betrayed her. Mal and Simon have done what they can to show him the error of his ways.

So things are bad, River's about to buy it, and Jayne does the noble thing.

(Or he tries to run away and accidently gets in the line fire, becoming the Hero of Serenity in much the same way that he became the Hero of Canton.)

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Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:03 PM

FIREFLYTHEMOVIE

No way does Kaylee die. Joss has compared Kaylee to Willow on numerous occasions--she's the one who's the soul of the show. She gets hurt, you not only see it in her face, you feel it yourself. And Joss has also said, on numerous occasions, things like, "Alyson is so good at this. I say over and over, I'm never gonna kill her, but I put her in danger, and everyone gets really scared."

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Friday, March 26, 2004 2:27 AM

KALIMEERI

I don't think anybody needs to die. For one thing, it's too early in the series. Each one of the characters still has a role to play in the story, and their individual plot lines have not been fully explored. River's actual contribution to the crew hasn't even been tapped.

Second, I don't think it's necessary. A loss of any kind would suffice, in a closely-knit group like this. I could foresee some serious marital difficulties between Wash & Zoe, and that could be traumatic. But the most likely scenario is the loss of Inara just by leaving. This could provide justification for Mal exploring more of the "dark side," because he needs her.

Jen dao mei.

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Friday, March 26, 2004 4:09 AM

SPOOKYDONKEY

While I'm of the same opinion as Arden, that it's still a tad early to be bumping our beloved cast off, I still think the possibility exsists. And quite frankly, I don't think Kaylee is as safe as many of you presume. Joss evidently likes the character of Kaylee quite a bit, but in Joss-land, that just puts the character in that much more danger.

Buffy - Killed twice (with disturbing footage of three months worth of decay to boot for death number 2).

Tara - Permenantly dead. Killed right in front of Willow (which in it's own way temporarily "killed" the Willow we all know and love)

Fred - Her SOUL was destroyed. Quite frankly, the most distressing and permenant end to any Joss character to date.

All of these were characters that Joss had expressed an extra level of affection for at some point.

The man is, quite frankly, driven to destroy that which he loves most.

Sick mind? Nah... Just good storytellin'!

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Friday, March 26, 2004 4:26 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

I would hope that Joss would not destroy Serenity. Not only is she home to the crew, she is the symbol of freedom and independence that Mal has clung to since first seeing her. He refused to leave her, instead choosing to die onboard in OoG which goes a long way in saying just how much emotionally he has tied up in Serenity.

It sure is interesting to banter around ideas of whether or not someone from the crew might die.

Thinking more on it, I don't think Joss would kill any of them off, at least not in the movie. Perhaps if it returned to TV we might see one of them die, or appear to die, in a season finale or something. I don't think he would do it in the movie, unless he planned a sequel.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Friday, March 26, 2004 4:46 AM

KALIMEERI

Well, if he 'killed' Serenity, we'd have to call the whole thing something else. Nah.

Jen dao mei.

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Friday, March 26, 2004 5:07 AM

JUSTME

Mal has already died once. In "War Stories".

This is Joss we're talking about here. Just 'cause you die doesn't mean you're gone.

This echos something I was thinking, how about a mix of previous ideas, like someone dies and then we find out how powerfull river is when she BRINGS HIM/HER BACK!? Possibly Jayne, thus changing his attitude toward her *completely*. (Maybe even making it worse if he later claimns he wanted to "go out a hero" or some such)

Also, I don't think Zoe is completely safe; after having seen the anger in Wash's eyes when going to get Mal out and *get* Niska, imagine how much more intense he would get if Niska had Zoe killed.

Kaylee also could go if River took her place. (after all she did melt into Serenity once, that should give her all kinds of empathy with her ship ;-)

But I think hoping for a new series trumps them all. I predict no permanent(see theory one above) deaths among the nine.

Just my $1.75 (Gorram inflation!)
JustMe

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Friday, March 26, 2004 6:31 AM

CYBERSNARK

Jayne's death is certainly foreshadowed, what with Zoe's "anyone we can't spare" comment.

Don't forget the minor characters.

There's Badger, who the Blue Hands might manage to associate with the people who blasted out of Ariel with River (as you know that they must have Serenity ID'd by now as accomplices --they're just too ominously competent not to).

Also, Saffron could reappear. We've speculated that Early could've survived. And Niska seems to be the major mover-and-shaker in the rim; putting him in the same boat as Badger if the Blue Hands tumble to his connection to Serenity.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Friday, March 26, 2004 7:04 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by justme:
Mal has already died once. In "War Stories".

True, although briefly.

Quote:
This is Joss we're talking about here. Just 'cause you die doesn't mean you're gone.

True again. Joss has a knack for finding the loop hole in the whole death thing.

Quote:
This echos something I was thinking, how about a mix of previous ideas, like someone dies and then we find out how powerfull river is when she BRINGS HIM/HER BACK!? Possibly Jayne, thus changing his attitude toward her *completely*. (Maybe even making it worse if he later claimns he wanted to "go out a hero" or some such)

Now that is an angle I had not thought of JustMe. Someone dies, the whole crew is there, starts to grieve or what have you, and along comes River. She reaches down, touches them, and they come back w/ a big gasp and a spasm. If it was Jayne that would be some true irony, and would start an interesting debt of honor between the two of them. The Chinese believe that if you save someone's life you are responsible for that person. Wonder if that philosophy carries over to the Firefly verse. That would make for some interesting scripts.

Quote:
Also, I don't think Zoe is completely safe; after having seen the anger in Wash's eyes when going to get Mal out and *get* Niska, imagine how much more intense he would get if Niska had Zoe killed.

Zoe's death would greatly effect both Wash and Mal. Zoe is the only war "buddy" that Mal has left. They have been through Hell together and would die for one another if need be. I think that Mal & Wash would grieve, and perhaps grow closer after the death of Zoe, but I don't think either would ever recover.

Quote:
Kaylee also could go if River took her place. (after all she did melt into Serenity once, that should give her all kinds of empathy with her ship ;-)

I would hate to see Kaylee go, but I think they could always find another mechanic. Of course they could never replace Kaylee. She is like a little sister to Mal, a friend to Inara, and despite her past carnal experiences in the engine room, she portrays innocence, almost a naive youngster, of the crew, the one everyone wants to protect.

Quote:
But I think hoping for a new series trumps them all. I predict no permanent(see theory one above) deaths among the nine.

Just my $1.75 (Gorram inflation!)
JustMe

I agree. I don't see any permanent deaths amongst the crew.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Friday, March 26, 2004 7:56 AM

JUSTME

Quote:

Now that is an angle I had not thought of JustMe. Someone dies, the whole crew is there, starts to grieve or what have you, and along comes River. She reaches down, touches them, and they come back w/ a big gasp and a spasm. If it was Jayne that would be some true irony, and would start an interesting debt of honor between the two of them. The Chinese believe that if you save someone's life you are responsible for that person. Wonder if that philosophy carries over to the Firefly verse. That would make for some interesting scripts.

I didn't say it would be easier for her, just possible. Maybe she has to 'talk the person back' after Simon has done all he could medically and declared him/her dead?

Quote:
Zoe's death would greatly effect both Wash and Mal. Zoe is the only war "buddy" that Mal has left. They have been through Hell together and would die for one another if need be. I think that Mal & Wash would grieve, and perhaps grow closer after the death of Zoe, but I don't think either would ever recover.

But first the two would UTTERLY DESTROY whoever did it.

Quote:

I would hate to see Kaylee go, but I think they could always find another mechanic. Of course they could never replace Kaylee. She is like a little sister to Mal, a friend to Inara, and despite her past carnal experiences in the engine room, she portrays innocence, almost a naive youngster, of the crew, the one everyone wants to protect.

I'm not sure I agree that Kaylee is just 'another mechanic', she's more like the positive spirit of the ship. I'd say it's her perkiness that keeps Mal from being too grim. There's also the little sister angle, imagine the cold fury from Mal if Kaylee was killed!

Great story telling potential, but I don't think they'll use it yet.

Just Me

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Friday, March 26, 2004 9:05 AM

CAPTAINCDC

I agree that on a Joss Whedon show anyone can die at any time. In fact, I think he said on a commentary for the ep where Jenny Calendar was killed in season two of Buffy, that he did it to show viewers and the cast that no one was safe (except Willow). Having said that, I would really hate to see any of the nine get the ax. I do love them so, but there in lies the drama.

I do think it would be very interesting if Book turned out to be like you said Mal's adversary in the Battle of Serenity Valley. The fact that Book was getting religion while Mal was losing his during the same battle could be very compelling if Mal and Zoe find out about it (if it turned out to be true of course).

Oh well, that is why I am going to go see the movie (probably multiple times), to find out the answers to all of these questions. I for one cannot wait. Keep flyin' ,fellow Browncoats, all the way to the multiplex. And we'll find out together.

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

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Friday, March 26, 2004 9:10 AM

ARDEN

This whole River resurrecting people concept is pretty heavy... It's never a small thing in any work of fiction to have a living character touch a dead character and resurrect them. While this has major dramatic effect, it can also be dangerous in that thematically this leads the character into the inevitable "Christ-figure" status for many viewers, whether such comparisons are intended or not. And seriously, what do you think Book would do if he saw a young girl raise someone from the dead with but a touch? While his past is obviously shady, we've seen nothing yet to make us believe that his faith is anything but true. Book's not the type of clergy who is looking around for a messiah, but he'd be in a difficult spot if an alleged miracle-worker was in his midst. While I can't specifically recall any New Testament references on the show (feel free to point them out if I missed), it seems clear that Book is some kind of Judeo-Christian minister, and though the bible may have changed 500 years from now (considering how much it's evolved in the last 1500 or so due to repeated translation), there's always a mention of a messiah in there somewhere...

I think Justme's concept of her "talking someone back from the edge" has a little more of the show's feel to it. While admittedly we have no idea of the true extent of River's powers, from what we do know they seem to be psychic or telepathic ablities. Therefore, if River had to telepathically coax the last fraction of someone's deep consciousness into not slipping away into death, I think we could see a really powerful dramatic moment for everyone. River's been very much the "whipping-girl" for many of the crew, since she seems to have no real function among them. Everyone aboard has some kind of specific profession or skill that keeps Serenity flying and the crew safe. Even Book helps out where he can, and he's proven that he's willing to break laws if it means he'll be doing the right thing. But River is just "the moon-brained sister" right now to many of the crew, despite her actions in Objects in Space. I think we could see a lot of interesting character interation if it becomes apparent that, had she not been there, someone would have died. Even Mal would be hard-pressed not to see some act of Fate in her being on-board. But who knows? Fate may not be a theme that Joss wants to deal with: from what we've seen, the show is more about people relying on each other than trusting in some divine power.

I still don't think that anyone will permanently die in the film, but this whole "psychic rescue on the brink of death" concept has me intrigued.

You got a wife? All I got is that dumbass
stick sounds like its raining.

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Friday, March 26, 2004 11:07 AM

PEACE

This is Joss-- somebody's gonna die. Probably not in the first movie, but maybe in the second, and definitely if this thing goes back to a series. If there are any doubters out there, think on Fred's fate (I still cloud up about it at odd times).

My three top potential corpses: Jayne, Inara, and Kaylee. I include Kaylee because she would hurt the most, and Joss has shown a capability of hitting us where we hurt the most before now. I understand everything that everyone has said about her being "Willow" and therefore safe, but, again, Joss is one of those writers who is willing to do what it takes to surprise his audience. If the story demanded it, I have no doubt Joss would eliminate Kaylee. Maximum pain = maximum storytelling-- that's something I learned from Joss.

Doesn't mean I won't cry when it happens....

Oh, bugger! Now I have to wait for someone to wake up!

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Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM

KARENKAY99

Quote:
Originally posted by Arden:
This whole River resurrecting people concept is pretty heavy...

didn't joss say in one of the commentaries 'psychic was as far as he was going to go'

"They say the snow on the roof is too heavy. They say the ceiling will cave in. His brains are in terrible danger."

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Friday, March 26, 2004 11:40 AM

MCFLY

Hey All! This is my first post here. First I'd like to say this site rocks and all you browncoats rule.

As for dying... all I can say is that I'd hate to be the guy who has to tell Nathan Fillion, or any other cast member for that matter, that they have to 'take one for the team' and won't be around to see the glorious day when Firefly returns to it's rightful place on our televisions each week. These people obviously adore the show and would probably give up an important body part just to be able to come to work and fly aboard Serenity every day. To kill them now just when things are starting to look up just adds insult to injury.

That's now... as for the future, it's anyone's guess.

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Friday, March 26, 2004 12:38 PM

ITSALLSHINY

I'd hate to see River turned into some sort of wonder girl. Right now, she functions (in terms of the show) to display how honorable Mal is and highlights his stance against Alliance. (Alliance wants 'em -- screw that, they're coming with us!) She's the innocent lamb with a twist, and as such, she's much like Kaylee in providing heart to the show. You might say Kaylee is the active subjective heart, while River is the passive objective heart.

All that would change dramatically if River gained super powers. I mean, if River really can "kill with her mind" and "raise the dead" then there isn't any reason for Mal to keep her on the ship -- and no reason for Simon to stay, either, as River could better protect them both than Mal and crew. We already know Simon would rather be elsewhere -- it's one of the creative tensions on the show. No, having River become super girl would just weaken the show.

Joss carefully crafted Firefly from the beginning to have 9 major players for specific reasons. I don't see him killing any of them off, especially in the movie, because he hasn't exhausted their usefullness to the story by a long shot. Yes, Joss has a way of bringing his characters back from the dead, but even he can only do that so many times. Any dramatic effect from such killing could be better served by other devices. I would lay money on it not happening for a very long time.

---------------------------------
"No touching guns!"

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Friday, March 26, 2004 2:59 PM

SPOOKYDONKEY

A lot of people have pointed out that Joss has a tendency to bring characters back from the dead, but there are some things that need to be taken into account in regards to Firefly/Serenity.

For Alien: Resurection, Joss was given a mandate from the powers that be at Fox to find a way to bring Ellen Ripley back into Alien series after her death in Alien 3. Joss moved heaven and earth to bring her back because he was hired to. He was tasked with it; it wasn't really his choice to do so.

In the Buffy/Angel universe pillar-of-heaven-shaking, apocolypse-inducing supernatural forces are an inherent part of the world, giving the writers all the necessary tools to break the rules where things like death are concerned. For Buffy/Angel then, resurection is, as I like to say, "in the toy box."

Firefly on the other hand, is different. The established "rules" of how the Firefly universe works are more down to earth. Something as fantastic as raising the dead goes against the entire "feel" of the show. Therefore, the writers can't pull that particular trick out of Firefly's toy box without straining credibility to the breaking point.

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