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Originally posted by lcrussell:


Could you please pass me a bit of that brain bleach if you happen to have any to spare. I'd like to bleach that post of hers right out of my mind.

http://www.bigdanglarp.com/

Come Misbehave!

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Originally posted by Yoshosedai:


Sure, no problem, slides bottle of Brain-o across the forum.

So, why do you write these strong female characters?

Because you're still asking me that question.

Joss Whedon-Equality Now acceptance speech

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Originally posted by Kayna:
My understanding is that some do and some don't. It's not something I've checked into recently because it pi***s me off. If you don't have the strenght to haul my fat, unconcsious butt out of a burning building you shouldn't get that job. That's not equality. It's patronizing and it's stupid. That aplies to the military as well.

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Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.

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Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
I would like to say that my wife, herself a feminist, read this article and stopped a quarter of the way through in disgust. Her comment to me was that the author is in no way in touch with true empowerment and is simply just someone who wants to be angry for the sake of being angry.


Do not fear me. Our's is a peaceful race and we must live in harmony.

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Originally posted by citizen:
Define irony:
A misandrist declaring the vilification of all members of one sex wrong.

In reference to Buffy the Vampire Slayer, it is replete with examples of strong female characters, from the literally physically strongest leader and 'hero' of the story Buffy, to the indisputably most intelligent character Willow. In contrast the men are portrayed as flawed, bumbling buffoons, who spend most of their time being rescued by the previously mentioned females. In a lot of ways its a 1950's vampire B movie turned on its head. In that respect there could be an argument for it not being feminist, because its arguably past feminism and into the realms of misandry.

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Originally posted by embers:
Oh Citizen, I think you are going a little too far in the other direction! I mean of course Buffy does all the hero/champion stuff since it is her show... but no one can deny that Xander is one of the kindest and most loyal of men, and that Giles is brilliant, they are both people I would want in my life... which wouldn't be true if they were only bumbling buffoons.

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Originally posted by citizen:
In direct reference to Xander, in actual unique attributes he didn't really have anything, his contribution was often giving the gang someone to save. In that respect he was Buffy the Vampire Slayers answer to the Heroine of many 50's B movies, whose place was to be loyal and loving to the hero, then scream dramatically before being captured by the villain and giving the hero someone to rescue.

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Originally posted by embers:
My point was that Xander isn't an example of misandry (simply NOT giving him super powers is not a hatred of men) any more than Zoe would be an example of misogyny (they couldn't ALL get to be captain). I was just objecting to the extreme wording is all.

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Originally posted by embers:
My point was that Xander isn't an example of misandry

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Originally posted by citizen:
I would say, though that in a lot of ways Buffy paints Men as less than equal to Women.

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Originally posted by Cybersnark:

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Originally posted by embers:
My point was that Xander isn't an example of misandry

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Now, Jayne, he'd be an example of misandry.

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Originally posted by mal4prez:
I doubt even Joss would deny this. He's said that his interest is in strength in women and weakness in men. That's pretty blatant in his shows, and I think it's purposely done. I don't think he'd apologize for it.

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Edit: OK, not fair! You added the last sentence to your post after I hit reply. It says everything in my post, but much more simply. At least I know we agree LOL!

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Originally posted by stinkingrose:


When my husband gets home he is in for a heap of trouble... the nerve of that penis-wielding torturer!

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Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Though I'm not quite sure how you're using "Stalinist," but other then that, very well said.

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Originally posted by citizen:
Whose asking him to apologise? I'm not an angry white homosexual homophobe, who is struggling to come to terms with their racism and sexism . I say it only to highlight the absurdity of the misogyny accusation.

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Originally posted by JRC:
Someone made a comment asking if she was going to analyze "Objects In Space". This is her reply:

"Yes, I plan to. I found Objects in Space to be horrifically racist. I can't believe that Joss was allowed to air a show that had such a terrible portrayal of Black men. I also found the portrayal of the Black man in the movie Serenity to be pretty horrifying too."

It's also quite funny how she has replied to only a select few people.

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Originally posted by spinebite:
WHOOO!!!! Serenity 2!!!!! Hopefully the video is right and Universal is seriously considering it, instead of just handing out false hope.

About the distorted views on Firefly: that woman is seriously crazy. Like 'belongs in a looney bin' crazy. Mal never tells nor told Zoe to shut up in ANY episode, and there is no racism whatsoever in the series.

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Originally posted by citizen:
Define irony:
A misandrist declaring the vilification of all members of one sex wrong.

In reference to Buffy the Vampire Slayer, it is replete with examples of strong female characters, from the literally physically strongest leader and 'hero' of the story Buffy, to the indisputably most intelligent character Willow. In contrast the men are portrayed as flawed, bumbling buffoons, who spend most of their time being rescued by the previously mentioned females. In a lot of ways its a 1950's vampire B movie turned on its head. In that respect there could be an argument for it not being feminist, because its arguably past feminism and into the realms of misandry.

Of course to someone who sees Buffy the Vampire Slayer as non-feminist, FireFly is going to feel like borderline misogyny. It does after all, show strong male characters along side the strong female one's, *gasp*! The problem with FireFly is its setting, its placed in a 'space western' universe, it's explained rather better than I can in Finding Serenity by Jane Espenson, but essentially the Western is very much a genre hinging on old fashioned chivalry, which somewhat hamstrings the feminist, or rather 'equality of the sexes' message, at any rate its old ground.

It does seem to be a lazy analysis to me, not because a lot of time or energy hasn't been spent on it, but because no insight has been gained, no actual analysis has taken place. The author has rather obviously approached the subject wishing to prove what they already knew, that Joss Whedon isn't a feminist, of course how could he, a man, be. All this article really shows is confirmation bias as it pertains to bigotry: replace men with Jew and you've got something written by Heinrich Himmler.

Which is really the point. She plays lip service to empowering women, but really she wants to oppress them as much as she wishes to oppress men. Reading the comments it's clear that she considers that all Women are really Lesbians, forced into heterosexual relationships by men, who, as we also find out, are all rapists. Apparently any male initiated sexual act, even consensual, is rape. She's not after empowerment of women, she's after homogenisation of women, all women have to be just like her. Basically what it's about is forcing the correct choices on Women, this might sound like the same thing as a oppressive patriarchy, but it's not because they're the correct choices, see.

Feminism is, apparently all about preventing women from making their own choices, being that women can't be trusted to do so. This from a real feminist?

Feminism is not misandry, it is not an outward hatred of all men, it is not openly bigoted statements like "I really am beyond worried about how much men hate us" (if anyone has a problem with my statement that, that is bigoted, I'd ask when it was they asked all men how they feel about women), and it is most certainly not a belief that women can't be trusted to make their own decisions. Its a terrible shame that the nobility of feminism is increasingly being co-opted by those who wish to oppress men rather than gain equality for women, and in that respect feminism has failed. Feminism aimed to stop men from objectifying women, but the strip clubs remain open, but in true equality women are now encouraged to, and do, objectify men in the same manner. Feminism aimed to eradicate misogyny, and has certainly succeeded in reducing it and rightfully vilifying it, but in return there has been a meteoric rise in misandry, women seeing men in the way misogynists see women. Perhaps the most disturbing facet of that is how misandry isn't also vilified, but almost encouraged and lauded openly in some circles. Feminism's success in getting women to ape some of the behaviours of men, that it was aiming to eliminate, has certainly lead to a form of equality, if a rather dystopic one.

It is, nonetheless an interesting critique on the Human condition, I weep for the species.

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More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
]

Well, I for one don;t think anything else needs to be said on the matter. citizen has put it exactly right!

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

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Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:

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Originally posted by citizen:
Define irony:
A misandrist declaring the vilification of all members of one sex wrong.

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Well, I for one don;t think anything else needs to be said on the matter. citizen has put it exactly right!

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