Whither fireflyfans.net? by ecgordon

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Whither fireflyfans.net?

POSTED BY: ECGORDON
UPDATED: Sunday, March 8, 2009 18:26
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2180
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Saturday, March 7, 2009 4:44 AM

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I know this is not the first time someone has posed this question, but I felt it needed to be asked again.

What is happening to this site? We are still getting newbies signing in on a regular basis but I am wondering if we might also be driving them and others away. RWED is a mine-field where I rarely tread due to all the bickering, and lately moon-brained sickos thinking it is so cool to alter thread titles. Grow up people!

On another front, I posted nearly three weeks ago about Joss being honored with a prestigious award, The Bradbury Award from the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America. Even though I inquired within the thread of how it could be pinned in the News Headline section, it took a direct email to Haken to get that done two weeks after the fact. In the meantime someone else thought that "Nathan's Porn" and "Summer's Belly Button" were so important that they got that treatment before a truly worthy news item.

Not only that, as of this moment 608 people have read about Summer's belly button and 759 people just had to read about Nathan's porn, but only 162 care about Joss' award. WTF? Is this now a hangout for shallow teenagers? I used to love visiting here, and even though I still do every day it is getting to be more like a nightmare than the dream place it was originally.

Is anyone with me on this?

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Saturday, March 7, 2009 5:05 AM

PEULSAR5

We sniff the air, we don't kiss the dirt.

A great many of us also frequent other Firefly boards and could have read about Joss's award there. It could also be that people have gone to the Nathan and Summer links more than once--let's face it who could blame them. I'm not saying you don't have a valid point but it could be, at least, a partial explanation.

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Saturday, March 7, 2009 5:11 AM

KC5F

I've been with Firefly since day one, and on this site not long after it started up. And I'm certainly not a teenager. But as with any online forum, I pick and choose what's of interest. I do read anything about Josh. And to be honest, I have no idea what "RWED" is or that there is even a thread out there about Summer's belly button.

Of course, I limit my visits to the General Discussions forum, since that's where the "General discussions and comments relating to Firefly" are supposed to be. That's why I'm here.

I don't think anyone coming across this board for the first time is going to try to catch up on 36000+ threads. If they see one that's petty or mindless they'll probably move on. I doubt it's going to turn them off to the rest.

I see your point, but I guess I don't see it as a big problem. Somebody looking for solid information is going to be able to find it, and will probably expect to keep finding it there and not in a thread about bellybuttons, LOLCats or whatever. So let's keep the good stuff going - thanks for yours!

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Saturday, March 7, 2009 5:11 AM

RALLEM

Most of the important posts here I also read through a news group so I tend to come here and vump a few polls and read the odd news like Nathan Fillion's porn which was High-larious.

http://www.swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Saturday, March 7, 2009 6:20 AM

WHOZIT

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
I know this is not the first time someone has posed this question, but I felt it needed to be asked again.

What is happening to this site? We are still getting newbies signing in on a regular basis but I am wondering if we might also be driving them and others away. RWED is a mine-field where I rarely tread due to all the bickering, and lately moon-brained sickos thinking it is so cool to alter thread titles. Grow up people!

On another front, I posted nearly three weeks ago about Joss being honored with a prestigious award, The Bradbury Award from the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America. Even though I inquired within the thread of how it could be pinned in the News Headline section, it took a direct email to Haken to get that done two weeks after the fact. In the meantime someone else thought that "Nathan's Porn" and "Summer's Belly Button" were so important that they got that treatment before a truly worthy news item.

Not only that, as of this moment 608 people have read about Summer's belly button and 759 people just had to read about Nathan's porn, but only 162 care about Joss' award. WTF? Is this now a hangout for shallow teenagers? I used to love visiting here, and even though I still do every day it is getting to be more like a nightmare than the dream place it was originally.

Is anyone with me on this?

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

Shut the fuck up! You're always bitching about somthing or looking for an argument.

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Saturday, March 7, 2009 8:53 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

And whozit helps to make my point.

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Saturday, March 7, 2009 9:11 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Quote:
Originally posted by KC5F:
And to be honest, I have no idea what "RWED" is...

RWED = Real World Event Discussions

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Saturday, March 7, 2009 10:24 PM

CELLARDOOR

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
I know this is not the first time someone has posed this question, but I felt it needed to be asked again.

What is happening to this site? We are still getting newbies signing in on a regular basis but I am wondering if we might also be driving them and others away. RWED is a mine-field where I rarely tread due to all the bickering, and lately moon-brained sickos thinking it is so cool to alter thread titles. Grow up people!

On another front, I posted nearly three weeks ago about Joss being honored with a prestigious award, The Bradbury Award from the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America. Even though I inquired within the thread of how it could be pinned in the News Headline section, it took a direct email to Haken to get that done two weeks after the fact. In the meantime someone else thought that "Nathan's Porn" and "Summer's Belly Button" were so important that they got that treatment before a truly worthy news item.

Not only that, as of this moment 608 people have read about Summer's belly button and 759 people just had to read about Nathan's porn, but only 162 care about Joss' award. WTF? Is this now a hangout for shallow teenagers? I used to love visiting here, and even though I still do every day it is getting to be more like a nightmare than the dream place it was originally.

Is anyone with me on this?

Yes, he (?) does help make your point. As a newbie, I can't know for sure what the glory days were like, ecgordon, but I can certainly go back and see the old threads since they're pretty much all still there. It was an odd, fleeting omniscient feeling getting to "transcend time" and see the fighting for Firefly over the last seven years, even back before it was canceled for sure I think. What a bittersweet legacy.

But as a newcomer, I have not yet remotely gotten my fill of Firefly, nor have I even settled into a comfortable familiarity with it yet. (I still have 2 episodes I haven't ever even seen yet!!) I'm certainly in love with the series, and eager to talk about it, but I feel like that's not really the primary interest of the site at the moment. I'm SO reminded of Edmund Burke's parlor metaphor right about now (Google it sometime maybe).

I'm personally interested in RWE's but not enough to dive into the discussions over there in the RWED forum. Bickering, yes. No way am I going to try to assert an actual opinion. As I posted over there, I can't even tell when the bickering is serious. Glad you all are friends though and can take it! Heh, I can't hope to keep up with the thread title changes though. Sorry, just not getting it.

Hrm, as for the interest in fluff over actual "newsworthy stuff"... don't know if I can tell. Headlines still sell I guess. Shallow teenagers--doubtful. Disillusioned, wearied, and/or bored adults after years of battling for rewards not quite comparable to the effort exerted and all too familiar with the steady environs here? More likely.

It is a little hard for a new Browncoat to tell what's worth reading so the odd or intriguing gets clicked on first. I'm not asking for anything to change only on my account, but I kinda feel like I missed out on the family/community aspect of being a Browncoat that I've read about. I won't say clique, since that's not showing fair recognition to the many years some of you have known each other. I do recognize that I arrived in the bar late, too! People did still send out the welcome committee when I announced myself, so that was a definite plus.

I'm still thinking, watching, and listening. I'll be joining in more soon. I'm not driven away just yet, in spite of aforementioned "less-than-ideals"!

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Sunday, March 8, 2009 2:27 AM

FREMDFIRMA

*smacks Zit with a rolled up newspaper*
BAD dog! BAAAAD
*whap!*

Actually yes, RWED is a pretty "rough town", kind of like the place angry mudders go to clobber each other and get it outta their system, but other than there* this is just a laid back, relaxed kinda place for folks who like Firefly to hang out and discuss stuff - like, well, summers navel, heh.

The lack of new material though does put a crimp in everything but fanfiction, sadly - and I just ain't that much of a fan of Joss's work outside of Firefly, some of it's had good potential, one could even call it awesome, but it wasn't what *I* was looking for in entertainment, and Firefly was.

Me now, given the circumstances, I am holding out for advances in animation tech to make something viable on that front, cause that's the best potential I see right now.

-F
*Most RWED posters make a serious point to never drag any of the roughness that is RWED outside of it, an idea I support quite passionately.

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Sunday, March 8, 2009 5:10 AM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by CellarDoor:

As a newbie, I can't know for sure what the glory days were like, ecgordon, but I can certainly go back and see the old threads since they're pretty much all still there. It was an odd, fleeting omniscient feeling getting to "transcend time" and see the fighting for Firefly over the last seven years, even back before it was canceled for sure I think. What a bittersweet legacy.

Hi CellarDoor.

Ecgordon is right, of course. :) Thing of it is, though, you can't really say it without insulting the current gang -- especially when the genuine plan is not to snub anyone.

Heck, I weren't even here at its height, though near enough: we had just gotten a shiny BDM, and the 'Verse was brimming with activity. This place was a beacon of hope, and home to many. We had indepth daily discussions on the intricacies of the show, and we made fanart. I was especially invested in the latter, and I can tell you, there were so much talented artists, here! Dating back, even way before my time, I found fanart at this site that was truly incredible! Most of these folks have long since retreated beyond the rim. 'Moved on,' as the clinical term would have it.

It will perhaps surprise you to learn this, but for poor saps, like me, who just can't let go, it's often even painful to be here when I think back of the good ol' days. I mean, there's still great artists here, still great threads to be read, but the signal/noise ratio, so to speak, has changed drastically over the years -- and not for the better. It's simply hard to see something you hold so dear die under your very nose. Especially if there ain't a gorram thing you can do about it. The 'Verse ain't dead; but it's dying: something a good deal more painful.

The trick, I think, is to look at it without judgement. There's plenty of blame to go around... Or none at all. I'm of the latter school. For the longest time I was part of a vivid RPG Mass Effect community, too. Same deal: we made great fanart, had many stimulating threads to participate in, etc. But that wee corner of the 'Verse has slowly died off as well, and is -- near as I can tell -- close to gone now. And that, I can assure you, pains me, too. To no end. But way it is is the way it is. Without an influx of new material, people will eventually get bored and leave. Or find greener pastures (ones with fresh grass to graze on). Once that happens, things usually start to snowball: with less peeps to share your art with, people will simply be less inclined to make some, upon which more folks will leave, etc. It's a sad, but inevitable process.

So, like I said, I don't blame anyone (nor even myself, as I'm equally guilty of leaving for long times... or equally not-guilty, as the point may be). As for RWED, I'm not going to live there. There's no place for me there. If there's ever a disillusion to be had, 'bout all being on the same crew, you'll find it in RWED. I want that Browncoat closeness. What can I say? I'm in the family way. :)

Despite all hurtin', it nonetheless warms my heart to see that, even to-date, there's still folks joining who participate with a passion and enthusiasm like that of those of the first hour. You think that's a commentary on the quality of Firefly?

So, CellarDoor, keep thinking, keep watching, keep listening. And, above all, keep flyin'! :)

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Sunday, March 8, 2009 5:21 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
*smacks Zit with a rolled up newspaper*
BAD dog! BAAAAD
*whap!*

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, March 8, 2009 5:47 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
We are still getting newbies signing in on a regular basis but I am wondering if we might also be driving them and others away.

This place is such a treasure trove of Firefly info, I don't think the idiotic bickering in RWED could chase them off if it wanted to. RWED is like a swamp with poisonous snakes in it; most peeps just avoid it.

"Thanks." -Hero, 2009

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, March 8, 2009 2:16 PM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...

Quote:
Originally posted by CellarDoor:
Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
I know this is not the first time someone has posed this question, but I felt it needed to be asked again.

What is happening to this site?

....

Is anyone with me on this?

I'm personally interested in RWE's but not enough to dive into the discussions over there in the RWED forum. Bickering, yes. No way am I going to try to assert an actual opinion. As I posted over there, I can't even tell when the bickering is serious. Glad you all are friends though and can take it! Heh, I can't hope to keep up with the thread title changes though. Sorry, just not getting it.

RWED is a bit like Maidenhead right after the Fruity Oat Bar jingle ends.

In fact, this whole place reminds me of the "Verse. IMHO it's got plenty of strange people, many of whom I wouldn't normally run into, but like the crew trying to get along with each other, it's amusing trying to find a way.

CellarDoor - just jump in - it would be good to have your voice added and might make 9 yr olds sit up straight.

ECGordon. Joss has gotten many awards over the years, or so it seems, and the announcement of any of them has never gotten us closer to what brings us all here in the first place, so don't be surprised if the thread isn't popular.

As for thread titles changing it's just another phase, things can't stay fresh or clever forever. Hang around though, it's bound to change again.

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Sunday, March 8, 2009 2:43 PM

RIVER6213

I think many people leave because they don't like having to deal with the Right-Wing wackos, and the "The South will Rise Again" groups that seem to be attracted to this website. There are many poster-friendly sites on the web where you won't get harassed for your political views when you are just trying to post a simple question. I use FFF.net just to read up on Firefly, Buffy, and Angel related stuff, but I no longer put any energy into posting, or interacting with any of the people here; its not worth it.

I personally like Haken's new site called 'ShinyVerse', and wish more serious fans would migrate there.

-River

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Sunday, March 8, 2009 3:01 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

ECC,

RWED was created to separate the bickering over politics and the like from the rest of the board. Think of how much worse it would be if RWED topics were mixed in with the rest of the board.

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Sunday, March 8, 2009 3:10 PM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I personally like Haken's new site called 'ShinyVerse', and wish more serious fans would migrate there.

It looks shiny enough, alright. I just don't 'get' it (yet?). It doesn't quote messages; doesn't send email notifications, either. And since it has so many sub-boards, the latter makes it hard to be active on.

Also, it wouldn't let me sign up with my old nick (cuz I made a typo in the email-address, and now it keeps saying my username is already taken).

So, I guess I'm waiting a bit until it's out of beta. :)

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Sunday, March 8, 2009 3:41 PM

KIRKULES

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I think many people leave because they don't like having to deal with the Right-Wing wackos,

Yeah, everything would be just peachy around here if we just got rid of everyone that disagrees with River6213. The RWED would be so much more interesting if it was just a 24 hour liberal love fest.

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Sunday, March 8, 2009 3:44 PM

RIVER6213

I am no liberal.

-River6213

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Sunday, March 8, 2009 3:48 PM

CYBERSNARK

I'm still here regularly, I just don't talk much ('cause I'm usually in at least three other places as well, and I really oughtta be working).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Sunday, March 8, 2009 4:16 PM

TRAVELER

I know a fansite where the word f**k is used regularly and they insult each other in the most vulgar terms. If you think it is bad here I will give you the location of that site and you may judge yhis site a little differently.

A site is made of the people who are its members. If you don't like it here, you have the freedom to leave or except the site as it is. If you expected this site to continue in the same mode, then that is unrealistic. I have seen many changes here and that does not surprise me. There are people here I like and there are threads created that I respond to and other threads that don't interest me so I don't respond. I have that freedom.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Sunday, March 8, 2009 4:41 PM

DREAMTROVE

Couple things:

1. We're getting new users in part because of the Ron Paul Revolution. I'm partly responsible for this, by feeding in the idea that Firefly was food for the libertarian idealists, but I'm sure I'm not the only one to have circulated it there, but now all of them seem to have seen the show. I'm sure just like buffy, from there it spreads to friends and family, so firefly is catching a second wind, and a very strong one, strong enough for a new season. The only problem is that the entire cast and crew are now working on other shows. I think the best way to continue the series would be to start over with a spin off, same Verse, same theme, but lots of new faces, so as not to disrupt anyone's career. I'd love to see River Tam again, I don't want to sacrifice Cameron Phillips to do so, if Summer's up to doing both, fantastic, but I think it would be part-time. Past that, more story, new people. A totally new setting. A group of prisoners living in a reaver ship colony, staying just out of sight. Just an idea. One I like, personally ;)

2. As for chasing people away, RWED, sorry, became a hell hole and I had to flee. I used to stick there because I couldn't handly the post rate up on the main deck here. Any new thread was buried in an hour, it was impossible to carry on a conversation. I don't think that any group is chasing people away, I think it's attitude. People should try backing off a little bit and not going at it. Chris, you know I'm looking at you, and, sure Rap is a very easy target, but this sort of thing never helps. Nothing personal. We just need to be civil to one another. People have different beliefs. In real life, a person who tries avidly to lose arguments, I found myself recently having to defend: Evolution, Chemistry, and Logic, as valid concepts. To say nothing of combating: UFOs, bio-electricity, and radio mind-control networks.

But it's not even the fluoridation paranoia that chases people away, it's the attitudes. People came here to talk about Firefly, and find like minded people to talk about like minded entertainment and real world ideas. I personally don't care what they believe, as long as they don't hit me over the head. If Kim Jong Il likes Firefly, bring him on. I kinda think it's not his thing. About that, WTF with NK and war on Japan?

A little story about why I came here. I use IMDb and have for a long time, and sometimes comment on the boards there. I got onto the Firefly boards, and the show was still in possibility of survival, renewal, and there was just about 50% of comments were like "oh, this just sucks, it's such a f^&king rip off of cowboy bebop or outlaw star." No, it's not. Lara Croft and the Crystal Skull would be a rip off. Some things are a new subgenre. If there are two space westerns, and then there's a third, it's a subgenre, even if it borrows specific elements. It's like Steampunk. If someone makes "Highschool Musical with Zombies" (and oh how I wish they would) then a lot of people will say "oh, a buffy ripoff", but then eventually, it'll become a new genre called "Highschool Horror" or something, though I'd like to go with "Critter Angst"

Anyway, I got sick of just having to defend the show, and wanted to discuss it with people who also liked it. I googled, and this site came up first. An important detail, it no longer does.

Oh, and this is for HAKEN, if he's listening. Note the above comment about the Ron Paul revolution: I think right now, Firefly is pulling in more new viewers each week than Dollhouse, possibly.

Hold on while I twitter that

Nah, it's about even. Dollhouse and Firefly are pulling about the same. Now pulling about the same as Sarah Connor and Chuck. They're still behind BSG. burn notice up there too. season finale.

Most of the shows people watch here are actually on tweet par, Battlestar is way ahead.

but bear in mind how short and dead firefly is to compete with running shows.

Watchmen is way ahead of everything, Farscape behind, but that's timeframe for you. Farscape is way ahead of Lexx. Xena is a little ahead of Farscape.

Nonetheless, Firefly pulling a damn nice rating for something 6 feet/years under. It's way ahead of the Colbert Report right now. Not bad for a half season that ran in 2002? imdb tells me.

Colbert was Jon Stewart's bitch in 2002.

Oh, I see that in spite of TV guide telling me that Gossip Girl is the hottest thing, twitter tells me that BSG is about 20 times more popular, though only 3 times more popular than american idol.

Hmm. Curiosity has the better of me. A show more popular than BSG at the twitter tweets. CSI is on a par with Firefly atm. This is interesting.

Suggestions anyone? I'm curious if there are real challengers, national or international.

Nielsen is telling me that the most popular show is American Idol followed by CSI.

Twitter is telling me that just ain't so.

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Sunday, March 8, 2009 5:05 PM

CELLARDOOR

In defense of the RWED section, I have been to far too many forums that said, "Ok new member, you're so totally completely welcome here! Make yourself at home! Just don't talk about religion, politics, finances, ethics, debatable ideas, or anything to do with individual cares and interests." (I jest in part, but you know what I mean). Basically, I'm glad to see that the grit of the 'verse is present, and I can get into a bar room brawl if I so choose or also steer clear of those planets and talk about more "core world-friendly" topics. The option is here in a way seldom seen elsewhere. I appreciate that, even if I won't always be joining in for some areas of discussion.

ShinyUniverse.... I get lost over there. Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe I'm just more endeared to older-style forums since that's what I did most of my early posting on. Too much shiny stuff isn't, well... shiny.

As far as a Firefly rebirth... well, it did take Star Trek: TOS about 10 years (or more?) after the show was suddenly cancelled before they even made the first movie, right? And then they made 6 with the original cast (plus cameos in most of the later movies from spin off series). Not saying we can count on history repeating, but it often does at least in some aspects.

Maybe the planets will align again, who knows? Interesting segue (seg-way) for your reading pleasure if you haven't read it already. It's from a FaceBook post I read on the "Addicted to Firefly" App:

Quote:

The 7 basic characters in fiction and why there are 9 in Firefly.
By Philippa

"This article is based on a talk I heard [and took notes from ].

In Ancient Greece and other parts, there were at that time 7 celestial bodies visible with the naked eye. These 7 planets/bodies have distinct characteristics and have given us [arguably] the 7 days in the week and the 7 basic characters in ALL fiction.

1. The Sun - the Guy or Gal in charge. The King. The Leader [Kirk]. In the Firefly-verse this is MAL; no contest.

2. The Moon - reflects the Sun and is the only one who can make the Sun back down/change their minds. ZOE.

3. Mercury - the Joker in the pack. Snappy, funny, often the comic relief, often the messenger/communicator. WASH.

4. Venus - the love object; the goddess [but can be male]; the one everyone would do just about anything to get into bed with. INARA.

5. Mars - the War god. Spoiling for a fight [and good at it]. This is your muscle, your security officer [Worf], your hired gun. JAYNE.

6. Jupiter - Wants to get laid, rarely succeeds, good with their hands, often your resident mechanic [Scotty]. KAYLEE.

7. Saturn - remote, distant, contemplative, different. Figuring out his/her place in the scheme of things [Spock]. BOOK.

Ah, you say, you've left two out!!! This is because Joss is a genius and gives us two more planets and hence two more characters. Here's my guess...

Neptune - [cold, tends to be remote, deep, skillful] SIMON

Pluto - [erratic orbit, possibly not a planet at all] RIVER"

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Sunday, March 8, 2009 5:44 PM

DREAMTROVE

RWED should be divided into sections, so that it's not a thunderdome. Conservatives, liberals, moderates, and issues. I think it would need some weird sort of structure to work. It's just that right now it's like sticking hamas and likud in a room and telling them to just have at it, but please try to keep it civil. And then giving them rant grenades.

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Sunday, March 8, 2009 6:26 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

I normally don't have a problem with Whozit - but, as mentioned above, that response really should have been relegated to RWED, not here in social country.

for ECG, I can say I visited the belly button thread more than once, I think I posted there, and we get emails about replies to our own, and I checked back a few times at least. I did check Nathan porn once, not sure what it was about, but it may have been the gag reel fro FF DVDs, or other FF reference, so I checked. Joss' award doesn't have many posts/replies, so checking back for replies is not the same scenario - and I won't be getting tickets for that evetn, so it's not a time crunch, and I can get to it another day.
if you are suggesting a limited amount of people should have access to changing titles, I agree. if you say more people should have access to posting to Headlines, I agree. I also agree RWED should continue to not have threads listed in the linear list. And I have mentioned that newbies should tread carefully and with thick skin when first entering RWED, but many have chastised me for providing that forewarning.
I have only been here since Sept 2007, but I still find many interesting posts each day, so much that i often cannot find time to visit RWED for weeks at a time.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I think many people leave because they don't like having to deal with the Right-Wing wackos,

Yeah, everything would be just peachy around here if we just got rid of everyone that disagrees with River6213. The RWED would be so much more interesting if it was just a 24 hour liberal love fest.

Perceptive and concise, as usual. I'd like to find the function "last 10 posts by Kirkules" so I can visit each day.

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