Had Firefly done Seven seasons... What ending would have suited you? by TheSomnambulist

It's not often a TV has the chance to end they way the creators envisage. Such is the case with our beloved Firefly.
So I'm wondering, in an ideal world had Firefly run it's course of the supposed seven seasons, what finalé can you envisage where you as a viewer would have been satisfied with it's conclusion.

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

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Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:24 PM

Great question!

I do know Mal would never die...No matter what. He would always just fly right off into the sunset (or a raincloud!)
Maybe just for me, but that's alright.

NO DAMN ENERGY RIBBONS!

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Tuesday, March 22, 2011 4:32 PM

Cheers.

And yes that's a classic image of Mal flying off.

But what of the others? Are they with him are they gone ? If so where and why and are they old or young still?

I have so many questions...

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Tuesday, March 22, 2011 5:45 PM

Every time I put my two cents in someone jumps down my throat...so I'm skittish...I just wanna come in here to relax.

I see River sticking around, but Zoe preggers changes things a bit there.Book and Wash are done, not much to say there, unless the movie was a halucination. I loved the movie, others didn't. Mal and Inara could only go down so many ways...I think Simon would've cured whatever she had, but I don't see them havin' that "whole passel" of kids Mal talked about. I mean Inara?- with spitup and diapers? I dunno... Either an epic fling or an epic friendship or both, for me...I flirted with the idea of Yo-saff on staff, but I think...no. Jayne, Kaylee, and Simon are soooo up in the air...so many ways that could go...I'd be Ok with whatever they do.

What would you wanna know the most?

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Tuesday, March 22, 2011 6:57 PM

Hey Wish

Not jumping down your throat, just genuinely curious. As there is no right or wrong to this I'd have thought we're all on pretty safe ground.

As you've mentioned there are so many ways that this could have played out that it's a juicy question to put to the masses. So many wonderful interpretations.

Personally I envisage Simon, River, Kaylee, and Zoe finding a life away from Serenity.
Inara I think Joss would have killed off. Most likely just after she and Mal came to some kind of resolution.
Thereafter....
Mal and Jayne I see as a kind of disfunctioning Butch and Sundance and that ultimately their endings would be heroic and ambiguous. The implication is they die in some out numbered last stand, but their deaths would never be confirmed.
Suspicion that they remain alive would later spring from the fact that SERENITY though supposedly scrap in some far off junkyard in space mysteriously disappears from the junkyard never to be seen again.

...and Zoe now a mother and a teacher off world receives in the post a little plastic dinosaur that used to be on the dashboard of Serenity.

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Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:02 PM

I actually think Inara wants kids, which is why she gets upset by the thought of Mal having them with Saffron. Her condition must be genetic and she's concerned about passing it on. The way she interacts with Kaylee and River, plus her desire to have the shuttle and the subsequent attention to decoration is telling: the woman is subconsciously nesting.

Of course, that would depend on there being a cure. Which, considering how Joss and Tim and everyone are still acting like there's more to the story after Morena spilled the beans, there may very well be.

As for the end... I imagine one last double cross, the crew transmitting a "gotcha" message to the Blue Sun Corp after an epic caper stealing all the damning evidence.

River standing on another building some distance away from the headquarters, light just this side of twilight with a dawn.

And a remote controlled Serenity equipped with ship-mounted weapons taking out the boardroom with all the CEOs inside it.

With Blue Sun, so falls the economic basis of the Alliance. We get an epilogue scene or episode suggesting the rim and core have all gone back to post-apocalyptic levels dealing with the aftereffects of the Alliance and Blue Sun pacification efforts (creating more zombies and Reavers), but humans and life in general is finding a way, as symbolized by Kaylee and Simon's kids.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:56 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

...and Zoe now a mother and a teacher off world receives in the post a little plastic dinosaur that used to be on the dashboard of Serenity.

Wow... very poetical. I like it, a lot.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 3:53 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

It is a certain bet that seven seasons of Firefly would have brought us story lines that we can't even imagine. There is no reason to assume that the cast wouldn't have gone through multiple changes over that time, and not only because Joss likes to shake things up with character drama and death.

Remember how Charisma's pregnancy altered a story line in Angel Season 4? Any number of things like that could have shaped Firefly over the years, including people getting the chance to be on another series. We might say they would be crazy to leave Joss, but we have no idea where their character arc would be at that point. And by that time Joss might have created another show (or shows) so Tim or Jane might be the show runner then.

There are only two characters that I am sure would have survived the entire ordeal, Mal and Jayne, but that doesn't mean Jayne would still be on the crew. As for the finale, I can only hope for something as brilliant as the end of Angel.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:03 AM

double posts and eaten posts, grr

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:03 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

I see the entire crew emigrating on a gigantic starship named Shepherd Book, which is carrying a cargo of short-range spaceships to the Solar system. Since none of the ships need protection from vacuum, the starship is open sided to save weight, revealing the cargo. If you look close, in the last few seconds of the final episode, you see that one of those spaceships is Serenity.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Hey Wish

Not jumping down your throat, just genuinely curious. As there is no right or wrong to this I'd have thought we're all on pretty safe ground.

It weren't you I was concerned with

I also like taking on the Blue Sun thing(needs to be run by an Asian to help explain why everyone cusses in Mandarin- that and Asians can make great villians)...Someone mentioned possible alliances with the other people who were experimented on...I don't know how many River's one ship can safely hold???

Hmm. A fractured crew fighting off a two fold attack and then they find out about Inara. I think they outta pick up a female merc for Jayne (think I.R.A. and wouldn't that be fun)...I think I'm still thinkng how another movie would end, not the series though...

Whatever happens, as long as Joss is at the reigns, I'll be happy with..

I also think Inara wants kids, but I don't think she's gonna get 'em for some reason... Just me...

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:30 AM

ZEEK

Mal gets killed by a pissed off evil Zoe after the death of Wash and the stillbirth of their baby (due to Joss's "NO MORE BABIES" mandate). Jayne takes her out but it's too late for Simon to save the captain.

Inara would be long since dead from her illness or whatever.

Simon and Kaylee would be married and inherit the ship. Jayne would stay on due to his growing respect for Simon and his "family" bond with Kaylee.

River would leave the ship and head off on her own to join the underground movement that helped save her from the academy.

Book - dead since Serenity.

Wash - dead since Serenity.

There would of course be new crew members by that point. No idea where their stories would go.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 4:57 AM

I've always thought Jayne and Saffron would be a fun and hilarious hookup. Can you imagine the backstabbing?

Although granted we could get that with a Mal and Saffron hook up, it just seems Jayne would be better at the backstabbing, or sometimes the lucky blunder that messes up Saffron's plans.

I guess shifting the pairing from Mal/Saffron to Jayne/Saffron depends on whether Mal is even attracted to Saffron anymore. He's still tricked pretty easily by her wiles, but from the frisking in Trash I get the feeling that whatever seduction she tries he doesn't want anywhere near it. But that could be Foe-Yay.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:02 AM

As has been pointed out, in a 7-season run, there would be twists and turns and cast changes as-yet-unimagined.

I've thought about this topic A LOT as part of the Virtual Firefly series that I was head writer for. We tried to be very loyal to Joss's vision, intentions, and agenda (in Firefly and other projects), and I had a definite image for where the Virtual Series would have gone by it's Seventh Season finale. I'd like to think that it's like something Joss would have come up with.

To get to that finale, we have to first consider some of those twists and turns that might have happened in future seasons (although I will stay away from introducing new characters).

Before the finale:

1) Zoe gives birth. Eventually leaves the ship (probably around season four).

2) Mal and Inara get together. Mal and Inara break up. Deal with it. It's what Joss does.

3) Kaylee and Simon have a relationship. Kaylee and Simon break up. DEAL WITH IT. It's what Joss does. Be happy they're both still alive!

4) A new Browncoat movement arises, fights a second war. Mal wants nothing to do with it. One of the leaders of the new movement is--surprise, surprise--the Operative.

5) At some point, the crew needs a second Firefly for a job, so they create the Duplicity from junkyard parts. As the series progresses, the ship is fully rebuilt, then eventually captained by Simon (who briefly leaves Serenity to fight in the war) and later Saffron (who joins both Mal's crew and Simon's crew at various points).

6) The crew fights one or more clones or River, who are agents of Blue Sun.

Set-up within Season Seven or just before:

1) Simon and Inara become a couple. Since it's too awkward on the ship, they head to the Core, where Simon is a promising, crusading politician, aided by Inara's savvy and connections.

2) As the season progresses, Inara's condition worses, and Simon becomes devoted to (obessed with) saving her, or at least being there for her. He becomes increasingly withdrawn.

3) Mal and Kaylee are also a couple, not because of an undying passion for one another (indeed, she often feels that he may leave her at any moment) but because of their shared love of Serenity (in essence, their "child").

4) Saffron is captaining the Duplicity, possibly with a wacky crew of her own. She does jobs for Simon/Inara and sometimes teams up with Mal. She has offered most of the crew spots on her ship, and near the end of the season, Jayne goes over, because she's more prosperous than Mal and promises to make him first mate.

5) Zoe and the Jude (the Operative) keep crossing paths and have an odd relationship. Not a romance, per se, because she despises him so, but if she can forgive him, she can purge the bile that has built up inside her through the years.

6) The crew (at least some of them) discover (possibly in the sixth season finale) that "their" River is a clone, and that the real River Tam is actually one of the Big Bads in Blue Sun.

Now, for the finale:

1) In the finale, we discover Blue Sun's end game: it involves looking for mankind elsewhere via psychics (a process/device that mirrors the fear-driven "mainframe" in DOLLHOUSE). That's why they made psychics in the first place.

Ultimately, we will discover that Earth-that-Was isn't quite as "was" as we thought, or perhaps there's another "settlement" of folk between Earth-that-Was and the Verse that we know. Point is, there's more of mankind out there.

2) Evil River kidnaps Kaylee in an effort to get their hands on our River. Needless to say, Mal has to go with war with Blue Sun, and he call on every resource available.

2a) He asks Saffron and Jayne for help, but they're in the middle of a huge money-making opportunity, so they turn him down (although Jayne feels a little bad about it).

2b) Simon can't help because Inara suddenly collapses, but he sends resources that only money can buy... possibly a group of soldiers or mercenaries for Mal to command.

2c) Mal asks Zoe for help--the first time he's done so since she had her daughter and left. She can't turn him down, even though she knows it's likely a suicide mission. She asks Jude to watch (and, if necessary, raise) her daughter, knowing that she can trust him and that he has ultimately become a good man, no longer a monster (although she still doesn't fully forgive him).

3) Mal and his army (Zoe, River, whatever war buddies he can pull in, and Simon's mercenaries) assault Blue Sun HQ planet. The biggest battle ever. We've seen Mal when he's been forced to fight, but never really when he WANTS to fight.

3b) Eventually, the tide turns against him, and he finds himself pinned down in a situation similar to Serenity Valley.

When all seems lost, though, an Angel arrives--the Duplicity. In a Han Solo at the Death Star moment, Jayne and Saffron join the fight.

4) With some reinforcements, Mal and the gang arrive at "the Tower," the heart of Blue Sun, where they are forced to fight their way through an army of River clones, all as powerful and potent as River herself. (I don't know why, the idea of an army of Rivers just seems pretty cool to me).

5) They fight their way to Kaylee, and in the final moments, it seems like they might all die (maybe the Tower is rigged to explode or something):

--River confronts Evil River in the awesome-est martial arts duel this side of Jet Li. Our River not only faces the "perfect version" of herself, but also discovers the truth of Blue Sun and "life out there"

--Zoe, Jayne, and Saffron fight a holding action (possibly not unlike the one in the movie).

--Mal rescues Kaylee (possibly defeating a second-tier Big Bad on the way). She knows they're doomed, and says he was silly for coming. He kisses her and says "Nobody should die alone."

6) At the same time, Inara dies quietly in Simon's arms.

7) Back at the tower, our heroes prepare for death, knowing that at least they are taking out the heart of Blue Sun with them.

But there's still one last surprise left. Jude arrives in a shuttle, giving them a final out. Under heavy attack by the remaining Blue Sun forces, everyone runs for the shuttle. River is nowhere to be found.

Zoe has a moment with Jude, almost kisses him--but then he is killed by a stray shot. As he passes, she forgives him (and by extension, releases her own demons).

7b) Back in the Core, Zoe's daughter comes in to comfort Simon, letting us know where Jude left her, but also giving Simon a chance to break down and grieve.

8) Evil River has the upper hand over our River, but our River suckers her in some super-clever way that only works because she thinks the way she does, turns tail and runs. She jumps out a window, leaving Evil River to be destroyed when the Tower blows.

Outside, River freefalls--then barely catches the wing of the shuttle that she knew would be flying by.

9) EPILOGUE -- TWO YEARS LATER

--On one of the Core Worlds, Simon gives a fiery speech about the future. The crowd cheers. Jayne, looking wealthy and prosperous, is there to applaud. Maybe Saffron, too. Maybe not.

--The cheers are equally loud on one of the Rim Worlds. Social change is coming in the form of Simon Tam, and for once, the Core and the Rim are united in intent.

Zoe smiles as she takes her daughter into a voting booth to proudly vote for Simon Tam. She is pregnant and has a new man, ready to move on with a real life.

--Simon returns to his dressing room, where he looks at a bunch of pictures. Inara. River. The crew. Serenity.

--This match-cuts to a shot of Serenity herself, sailing through the black. She's been retro-fitted with some Blue Sun technology and is approaching a whole new set of worlds. Somehow, we know that this place is moer sparsely populated than the 'Verse. This black is not as full as Mal had lamented of the old one.

--In the cockpit, River pilots, while Mal and Kaylee stand by the window. He holds a sleeping toddler against his shoulder, and she's pregnant again.

They hold hands as they look toward the future.

FADE TO BROWN

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:17 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Mal and Inara get married

Zoe becomes a shepherd

Jayne becomes a security guard at the Companion Training House

Simon beats the crap out of his parents, and has them taken to Higgins Moon, to spend the rest of their lives as apprentice Mudders.

Kaylee becomes a successful author, writing about her experiences in the black.

River, with assistance from The Operative, topples the Alliance Govt., and is unanimously confirmed as President of the New Republic.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:37 AM

You do have some interesting ideas Gwek. I may not agree with all of them, but you do.

Although it always kinda bugs me how you tell people to "deal with it." Yeah, we know that Joss breaks up pairings, but is it so wrong to still like the original pairings? Even then, he does have SOME main pairings that are kind of on-and-off again, if not fairly stable (like in Dollhouse).

Clones and Earth-that-Was... I have to admit you lose me there. I've just never seen why anyone would still be interested in Earth-That-Was in the verse beyond the curiosity, I don't see how Earth-That-Was offers anyone anything.

But I like your Zoe and Jude storyline. And we end kind of similar with Serenity River seeing the end of Blue Sun. :)

And to be fair to the clone thing, it's KIND of what happened in Dollhouse. I think Joss scavenged a lot of his ideas for Dollhouse from his endgame he had planned for Firefly.

Which is why I see Simon and Kaylee, because I see some similarity between them and Victor and Sierra. I can totally imagine Simon leaving Kaylee with a kid to go off to work against Blue Sun and the Alliance, possibly with some enhancements he's made using medicine and stolen technology. Maybe they break up because of it. Maybe not.

Mal might not end up with Inara, I could even see your scenario where he ends up with Kaylee, but I still ship M/I (just get kind of the same vibe from M/K as I do M/R, just doesn't work for me).

Mal or Simon might die, because they have some overlap in a way with Ballard from Dollhouse (Mal personality-wise, Simon role-wise, or maybe both for Mal if Joss was planning to go Mal/River). Mal's death has possibly been foreshadowed in the short story Crystal.

River and Echo overlap a lot, but River might also die, her death was also potentially foreshadowed in Crystal (along with Inara's).

I appreciate your leaving River unattached. Not many people do that. I think River's become something a little beyond mortal ken, so pairing her off I don't see as the priority.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:41 AM

So Gwek....You haven't thought about this or anything, huh....

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:51 AM

Zoe as a Shepherd, that's another interesting possibility.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:52 AM

I also like the Butch Cassidy and Sundance ending, especially if it could be from Mal and Jayne taking out Blue Sun.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:58 AM

KRELLEK

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
It's not often a TV has the chance to end they way the creators envisage. Such is the case with our beloved Firefly.
So I'm wondering, in an ideal world had Firefly run it's course of the supposed seven seasons, what finalé can you envisage where you as a viewer would have been satisfied with it's conclusion.

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

I would prefer they somehow found a way to topple the alliance in some greath battle on the ground and in space.

and then as someone suggested that the Rim Worlds along with the core, found a way to co exist peacefully in a loose commonwealth of independets planetary governments for the good of all. :-)

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:58 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

All the comings and goings of couples are what people want to watch on Firefly, but would Joss Whedon make the political dynamics of the Universe far simpler than Earth? After the Unification War peace treaties were signed, the 'Verse might not be unified, even on paper.

Surely there were richer planets that stayed neutral in the Unification War? In this 7 season Universe, where are the equivalents to India, France, and, especially, Russia? Planets that aren't colonies of the Alliance and planets that the Alliance can't shove around?

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:01 AM

Inara leaves Mal with three really obnoxious kids two of them boys and a girl before her condition takes her because Joss is in charge. One of the biggest joys of these little guys bring is that they terrorize Jayne cause it makes Daddy laugh and he never smiles anymore.

This would be hilarious, and something I would WANT to see:)

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:03 AM

KCHLIPALA

GWEK, that was the best thing I read all week. I actually envisioned most of it and it really made my day.

Would you mind if I share your idea if I gave the proper respects that your the originator?

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:09 AM

KRELLEK

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
All the comings and goings of couples are what people want to watch on Firefly, but would Joss Whedon make the political dynamics of the Universe far simpler than Earth? After the Unification War peace treaties were signed, the 'Verse might not be unified, even on paper.

Surely there were richer planets that stayed neutral in the Unification War? In this 7 season Universe, where are the equivalents to India, France, and, especially, Russia? Planets that aren't colonies of the Alliance and planets that the Alliance can't shove around?

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

Well ScrewTheAlliance had a good idea of how the Alliance was actually founded, that because Shan Yu the Tyrant, had taken over a Confucian/Tao -Chineese planet that he Yuan had set out to conquer everything. and they grew think tthey should control everything, and that some imperial Faction fougth along with the independents to reestablish the Yuanese Impire for the good of the yuanese people,

try read them if you have not yet read them. starting with kaylee´s Lament, followed by The Treasure of Lei Fong Wu and unfinished buisness.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:10 AM

Uh, well technically, the whole "colony" issue is exactly the reason the Alliance felt justified waltzing into the border and rim and taking over, according to the Serenity RPG manual.

The one thing I'm not clear on, and the manual doesn't specify, is whether the Alliance was around to oversee the original colonizing, or whether they showed up later and took credit for it retroactively. My suspicion is that Blue Sun and the Alliance have been around for a while, someone had to put the Arcs together from Earth-That-Was, someone had to oversee terraforming the planets, and this would also explain all the "the Alliance is England with a king and parliament and lords" analogies. In that way the Unification War was both the American Civil War AND the American Revolutionary War.

I think that Joss wants to tell people a message, and I think that message is "hey, government is good sometimes, but when it starts to step on your toes, you should overthrow it. Also, corporations are evil, and in cahoots with the government."

In Dollhouse, the story was about killing the Rossum Corporation, which ultimately took out/ took over government when the remote wipe crisis blew up on them (possibly intentionally). Imagine Blue Sun dowsing planets in PAX in a bid to take power, and I think you'd see a similar outcome.

>_> I actually don't think there would be a Unification War fought as the series went on, even after Miranda. Supposedly the Miranda Broadwave only reached less than half the planets in the verse, and according to Mal at the end of the movie the Alliance has already started to spin the Broadwave into a hoax so well that Mal thinks the verse is going to roll right back over and go to sleep. He even seems to think there won't be a war over the broadwave during his fight with the Operative, if Take the Sky is anything to judge by.

But that doesn't mean members of the crew might get involved with anti-Alliance or anti-Blue Sun efforts, here and there, as I doubt they'd stay together for the entire run of the show.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:12 AM

Hehe, I actually borrowed ScrewTheAlliance's ideas a little, though I put Shan Yu back on Earth-That-Was causing WW3 and precipitating exodus.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:38 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

In a Universe where mankind can ignite gas giants to become dwarf stars, there probably are weapons more destructive than H-bombs, but only if Joss Whedon wants that.

Imagine for a moment that it is very difficult, very costly, and takes a large amount of energy to create artificial gravity for an entire world. Next, imagine that it is easy (easier than making H-bombs) to release all that energy stored as artificial gravity. That would be a Universe where the Alliance would want complete control of everyone on every planet, thus the Paxilon experiment. It would also be easy to retaliate against the Alliance. A very dangerous 'Verse.

The final episode of Firefly could be about half the planets in the 'Verse being converted to heat, light, dust, and asteroid belts. Serenity dodges disaster, somehow. It would be a visually stunning Firefly episode as planets explode like fireworks. "Oh, the humanity!" Our heroes survive.

Joss went halfway to the Apocalypse on Dollhouse and Buffy Season 8 comics. Why not on Firefly?

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 8:52 AM

a s

Quote:
Originally posted by KChlipala:
GWEK, that was the best thing I read all week. I actually envisioned most of it and it really made my day.

Would you mind if I share your idea if I gave the proper respects that your the originator?

Glad you enjoyed! If you're not familiar with it, might I suggest that you check out www.stillflying.net: 29 episode length scripts, 7 finishing out Season One (ending with a finale adapted from THOSE LEFT BEHIND) and a full 22-episode Season Two (exploring what it might have been like if the movie has been a season instead).

Feel free to share with anyone you'd like. If you don't mind, I appreciate the attribution, and also a reference to www.stillflying.net, for those who might be interested.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:01 AM

Oooooh. Okay, I'm liking that. Both visually dramatic and horrifyingly bleak.

We gotta have Pax too though. Just so all surviving worlds will still have something to worry about after the end. Season 8 comics can be about trying to figure out a cure for the Pax. :D

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:04 AM

Still Flying is good, you woulda made some good episodes. Sorry for ragging on you a little there.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Still Flying is good, you woulda made some good episodes. Sorry for ragging on you a little there.

There's no need to apologize! Everyone has different opinions, and that's what makes the world go 'round.

I don't think we actually disagree on too many major points, and where we do, it's a matter of perspective.

I didn't feel like you were "ragging" on me. I just love to prattle on about FIREFLY. :)

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Oooooh. Okay, I'm liking that. Both visually dramatic and horrifyingly bleak.

We gotta have Pax too though. Just so all surviving worlds will still have something to worry about after the end. Season 8 comics can be about trying to figure out a cure for the Pax. :D

Mmmmm. Exploding planet-y goodness. Imagine what the Blue Sun commercial for that would be like! :P

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:14 AM

We do probably agree on more than we disagree, that's usually the case. In this case I decided to let go of the obvious disagreement and take in all the ideas as a whole.

I think it worked out better for everyone involved. :)

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:16 AM

Quote:
Mmmmm. Exploding planet-y goodness. Imagine what the Blue Sun commercial for that would be like! :P

Omigosh. Can you imagine if Firefly caught on and Joss was able to do the advertisements for it in surreal Blue Sun style?

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:24 AM

GWEK, I think you've got some great ideas, too, and I've enjoyed reading, "StillFlying"...your pairing tangents are a wee bit adolescent for me, I’m assuming they're based on Joss’s penchant for Buffy and Angel breakups, but hey everyone's entitled to their shippy opinions.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:38 AM

Yes, to some extent the pairings are based on the precedent that over the course of seven years of serialized fiction, the relationships that seem "obvious" in Year One are not going to be intact in Year Seven.

In particular, the Mal/Kaylee pairing is based on the idea that both of these characters are driven by their love of Serenity and neither would ultimately want to leave her. (I don't see Inara or Simon being content to stay on the ship for the rest of their lives.)

I find it interesting that you use the term "adolescent" to describe what could be the strongest, most stable (most adult and realistic) pairings of the possible combos (ie, relationships based on shared values, common experience, and the ability to actually live with each other over the long-term, rather than the fun-in-fiction-but-usually-doomed opposites attract dynamic).

But, as you say, different strokes...

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:12 AM

LWAVES

I've only skimmed through the previous posts but this question has come up before for me about Firefly and other shows.

My take for the original cast members goes something like this:

Before the end:

The movie plays out over the series so Wash and Book still die eventually.
Zoe finds she is pregnant and gives birth.
Mal and Inara get together for most of a season and then break up. Inara leaves Serenity (again). Mal then finds out about her illness and goes searches for her whilst doin jobs.
Kaylee and Simon have an on/off relationship including her seeing someone else (a new crew member). Kaylee and Simon still love each other but hide their true feelings.
Simon gets overly possessive and protective of River so she rebels against him.
Jayne is still Jayne but Book's death has started to change him (a little bit).
Mal spends time recruiting Independents and moves away from the just being a Captain into a true leader.

The end:

The final season is partly our crew doing it's thing and partly an uprising against the Alliance and Blue Sun.
Simon and Kaylee finally agree that they love each other and stay together.
Simon also realises that River needs to be let go and be her own person.
Jayne has changed (a little) and has come to appreciate and respect the crew around him as friends, even River and Simon.
Zoe, ever loyal to Mal, gives her life to save him in the final battle.
River effectively takes over Zoe's position as Serenity's second in command.
Mal catches up with Inara but she won't go back with him. At some point a cure for her illness is found, maybe by Simon.
Mal and Inara agree to bring up Zoe's child between them but stay seperate as a couple.
The Alliance is effectively brought down and Blue Sun destroyed.
Serenity and it's crew fly off towards a sun with Mal remarking that 'It ain't so black out there anymore'.

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:12 AM

...Must... resist urge to point out the influence of personal experience on writing relationships in fiction and opinion on workability.

And urge for self-narration.

Okay. Mostly averted.

Zoe/Wash and opposites attract was already done in Firefly, it's not unfair to predict that Joss may have gone elsewhere for his other pairings.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:48 AM

Hi GWEK, I seem to think we've discussed this one before:)

The idea of Mal and Kaylee bonding over the ship was recently negated in both "Better Days" where Kaylee's fantasy takes place OFF the ship, and in "Take the Sky", where Mal states he would lay down his burdens and give up his fight in exchange for a normal life with Inara. I'm assuming on or off the ship. Canon overrides speculation.

Also, the problem with Mal and Kaylee (based on your argument), beyond being like brother and sister, is that if the ship goes down they no longer have a unifying constant, with little passion or intellectual attraction for each other, there wouldn’t be much to keep them together, the pairing doesn’t work off of the ship.

Wash and Zoe were opposites and they seemed to work just fine, grew together, even made a baby, because they wanted a life together regardless of what they had in common or not.

And...doesn't "mature, stable, adult, shared experiences, able to live together for a long time" describe Mal/ Zoe rather than Mal/Kaylee?

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 11:58 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:

The end:

The final season is partly our crew doing it's thing and partly an uprising against the Alliance and Blue Sun.
Simon and Kaylee finally agree that they love each other and stay together.
Simon also realises that River needs to be let go and be her own person.
Jayne has changed (a little) and has come to appreciate and respect the crew around him as friends, even River and Simon.
Zoe, ever loyal to Mal, gives her life to save him in the final battle.
River effectively takes over Zoe's position as Serenity's second in command.
Mal catches up with Inara but she won't go back with him. At some point a cure for her illness is found, maybe by Simon.
Mal and Inara agree to bring up Zoe's child between them but stay seperate as a couple.
The Alliance is effectively brought down and Blue Sun destroyed.
Serenity and it's crew fly off towards a sun with Mal remarking that 'It ain't so black out there anymore'.

*sniff*
That's real good...

"Separate as a couple"- very 'Joss'.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 12:06 PM

And very Inara... Girl, I'ma SMACK you if you keep doing that to the poor guy!

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 5:56 PM

Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:
Wow... very poetical. I like it, a lot.

Cheers dude!

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 6:05 PM

Gwek.

NOW THAT IS A REPLY!!!!!

Brilliant stuff. Thank you so much for that. That's remarkable.

It's not all what I personally would like to see but I think your thought and logic are well applied and I love the design of your contrivances. Nifty stuff.

While I was reading it I was totally against the cloning stuff. Just because in principle I don't like cloning type narratives, however, I gave it some more considerations and in particular Joss' writting of Alien Resurrection and realised this is actually something that Joss would do. It's his kink for sure. So I have to hand it to you for that. Nice observations.

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Gwek.

NOW THAT IS A REPLY!!!!!

Brilliant stuff. Thank you so much for that. That's remarkable.

It's not all what I personally would like to see but I think your thought and logic are well applied and I love the design of your contrivances. Nifty stuff.

While I was reading it I was totally against the cloning stuff. Just because in principle I don't like cloning type narratives, however, I gave it some more considerations and in particular Joss' writting of Alien Resurrection and realised this is actually something that Joss would do. It's his kink for sure. So I have to hand it to you for that. Nice observations.

Glad you enjoyed! :)

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:03 PM

Crikey. Could've sworn I responded to this earlier tonight, but I guess it didn't save. :(

Let's try again...

Quote:
Originally posted by PLATONIST:
The idea of Mal and Kaylee bonding over the ship was recently negated in both "Better Days" where Kaylee's fantasy takes place OFF the ship, and in "Take the Sky", where Mal states he would lay down his burdens and give up his fight in exchange for a normal life with Inara. I'm assuming on or off the ship. Canon overrides speculation.

I respectfully disagree. While both stories are canon, everything you're referencing is fantasy. Additionally, in both cases, they fantasies serve the larger story.

In BETTER DAYS, to accomplish the overall arc of the story, all the fantasy have to take the characters away from Mal. That's the point. And even if we accept that what we're seeing IS Kaylee's one and only, pure super fantasy of what she craves... fantasizing and living it are two different things. Yes, her fantasy in BETTER DAYS says that she MIGHT want to leave Serenity, but every other bit of canon we see seems to indicate a different intention.

TAKE THE SKY is, perhaps, a bit trickier. The thrust of the whole story is about what Mal is willing to sacrifice to do the right thing. Happens to be everything, including his life, his love (note that everyone EXCEPT Mal and Inara winds up with a happy ending of sorts), and even his freedom. That willingness defines the boundaries of the story.

Further, Mal's willingness to live a normal life is quite conditional. It requires that Inara give up her vocation (indeed, her identity, really), and that very fact is what dooms their relationship. Also make careful note of the fact that this so-called "normal life" is silent on the matter of leaving Serenity.

Quote:
Also, the problem with Mal and Kaylee (based on your argument), beyond being like brother and sister, is that if the ship goes down they no longer have a unifying constant, with little passion or intellectual attraction for each other, there wouldn’t be much to keep them together, the pairing doesn’t work off of the ship.

Could be that you're reading only some of what I'm writing:

1) Nowhere do I have the ship going down.
2) Nowhere do I have them leaving the ship (thus, it doesn't MATTER if their relationship works off of the ship).

On the matter of them "being like brother and sister..." That argument, literature shows us, is very, very weak tea. I can point to, say, CLUELESS, as one of countless counter-examples.

Quote:
Wash and Zoe were opposites and they seemed to work just fine, grew together, even made a baby, because they wanted a life together regardless of what they had in common or not.

There is a difference between "opposite" and "complimentary." In the case of Wash and Zoe, their differences compliment each other, strengthening their relationship.

In the case of Inara and Mal, their personalities are actually pretty similar, but their worldviews are incompatible and opposite. And that spells trouble.

Simon and Kaylee (perhaps even more than Mal and Inara) are products of their very different (and opposite) societies. We see in SHINDIG what happens when Kaylee enters Simon's world. She might have a fancy evening, but she doesn't belong there anymore than Mal does. And we see on a regular basis how Simon fits in to Kaylee's world. Ultimately, he fates better than she does, but he's always sacrificing. Kaylee's world does not allow Simon to use his capabilities to full capacity (and more than Simon's world allows Kaylee to let her light fully shine).

And, see, that's a problem that Wash and Zoe don't have. Despite their different personalities, neither of them appears to have had to SACRIFICE for the relationship to work (well, maybe Wash's moustache), but a Mal/Inara or Simon/Kaylee pairing in the long term would require a significant sacrifice from one or both partners. And that would lead to resentment from the partner who changed, and quite possibly the other partner not being as enamored any more after the change (a classic relationship killer).

Quote:
And...doesn't "mature, stable, adult, shared experiences, able to live together for a long time" describe Mal/ Zoe rather than Mal/Kaylee?

I will allow that it applies to Mal/Zoe just as much as the Mal/Kaylee, yes. (For the record, the stillflying.com writing staff discussed at length whether Mal and Zoe might eventually hook up in some capacity). I think it also applies to Kaylee/Jayne (another option discussed at length, and never necessarily discarded), and, for that matter, Zoe/Jayne (something I personally don't really want to see. Ever). In different ways, each of these pairings has enough compatibility that if a spark were to ignite, it could probably burn for quite a while.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 7:26 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

Some of these sound reasonable to me and some don't, everyone likes different things. I would be okay with clones, though the rest of Weck's story, at least parts of it, don't appeal to me, I think if we were going to do River clones we should have the real River on Serenity and evil clone River leading Blue Sun. It doesn't really matter though, I only bring it up to say that clones are acceptable, even though the concept seems to be becoming more obselete as time goes by, but it could still be cool/interesting.

I'm glad that everyone can imagine their own ending because it wasn't set in stone, Firefly has become so many different things to so many different people that I'm kind of glad it was short so people can imagine it how they like, the possabilities are endless.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:27 PM