Would the Reavers ever have talked? by two

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Would the Reavers ever have talked?

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POSTED BY: TWO
UPDATED: Friday, June 3, 2011 15:50
SHORT URL: http://bit.ly/irngnu
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Tuesday, May 31, 2011 9:20 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Four questions, out of many, answered by Joss Whedon from an interview in Firefly: The Official Companion, Volume Two (2007), ISBN 9781845763725
“Time to buy.” - Roy Batty from Blade Runner, which is a very unsubtle hint to purchase the book.

Q: Would the Reavers ever have talked?
I certainly didn't intend them to. But I was still playing with different ideas about the Reavers. The idea that I used in the movie with the Reavers did not come right away. The idea of a planet being killed I had in my head. The idea that the Reavers had come from that, I didn't have until later in the process, until actually I was writing the movie. I think they would have been about the same [as they were in the film if they had been depicted on Firefly]. I had a whole thing worked out where Kaylee was going to go to a carnival and see one in a sideshow and then it was going to turn out to be a guy in a costume, because Mal explained that no Reaver would ever, ever let themselves be caught alive, that they'd eat themselves first. And I always wanted to keep that. It would have been a long damn while before we ever really caught sight of one. We had a lot of shows and ideas for shows, where we were constantly under threat of them, but they were in another ship, they were in another place, we didn't see them for a long while. And then once we saw them, oh, the terrible, terrible things I was going to do. There are some things I won't say [laughs], because I will never give up on a story completely, but it wasn't going to be pretty.

Q: What was in Inara's needle?
One of the things that I'm still going to keep for myself. It may be in the special edition once I finally wake up to reality. But my unreality occasionally opens in theaters, so ...

Q: How did you originally intend to end season one?
No idea. Because I really did think season two would be a good place to reveal River's troubles, so I didn't have anything in mind.

Q: Were the elements of Serenity originally intended to eventually be part of Firefly, and if so, about where would they have come in?
My estimation was, towards the end of season two was going to be where we would find out about Miranda and the Reavers. This would not have led to any overthrow of the government, necessarily, but it would serve the uncracking of River's mind and rebuilding of her. I was giving it two seasons - could've ended up being one if we felt like we needed a little more momentum. But that was in the back of my head.

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Tuesday, May 31, 2011 9:37 AM

BYTEMITE

Well, there's two ways to look at it. From the soft SF perspective, unspeaking former humans that have become terrifying monsters, have a lot more emotional impact in terms of storytelling than human-like speaking monsters. There's a human response that equates wordless destruction with a force of nature. Terrifying because it is unpredictable, unknowable, and cannot be reasoned with.

On the hard SF side, it would depend on the action of the Pax on the brain. I mentioned in another thread today that I think the explanation might be damage to dopamine producing cells and the Pax can damage either way. Either the cells produce too little dopamine (leading to lethargy and abulia) or too much dopamine (leading to aggression, psychosis, reduced empathy, and hypersexuality).

Technically they should be able to talk, unless neurodegeneration from exposure was very advanced. But if it was that advanced, the Reavers would probably show reduced control of muscles and movement.

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Tuesday, May 31, 2011 11:35 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Joss might never havew shown them talking, but I find it difficult to believe that Reavers could operate space ships and plan attacks as well as they did in both the BDS and BDM without some form of communication.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, May 31, 2011 12:53 PM

CYBERSNARK

I like to think they'd all have upper-class British accents. . .

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
It may be in the special edition once I finally wake up to reality. But my unreality occasionally opens in theaters,

I love this line. Here's hoping.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, May 31, 2011 3:22 PM

INVADERCHAT

Yeah, I feel like Reavers would kind of have to speak because of their surprisingly good coordination of attacks and their ability to fly spaceships as Geezer said but definitely agree that they would have a more terrifying persona if they never spoke on-screen. Deep growly voices are so much less scary than the mindless destruction that the Reavers display and I like the fact that Joss had planned to not even show them for quite a while, enigmatic 'faceless fears' are also more scary than most things you can confront. I think it was enough that EVERYONE was scared of 'em.

@ Cybersnark - I too like that line, I wonder if he's STILL hoping though? I know I am.

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Tuesday, May 31, 2011 11:04 PM

LWAVES

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
It may be in the special edition once I finally wake up to reality. But my unreality occasionally opens in theaters,

I love this line. Here's hoping.

Yeah, it's a great line and a fine example of why Joss writes so well, he thinks a little differently.

I too think the Reavers must have been able to speak although I imagine it as more of a limited, gutteral version of the common tongue. I can't see them using it for conversations about the weather and see it just using it to give orders, argue and have basic social communication etc. I also think that it would probably be kept amongst themselves and only used in 'public' when necessary, thereby helping to maintain the savage image, even if it isn't a concious decision to do so.

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Wednesday, June 1, 2011 2:43 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by two:

Q: Were the elements of Serenity originally intended to eventually be part of Firefly, and if so, about where would they have come in?

My estimation was, towards the end of season two was going to be where we would find out about Miranda and the Reavers. This would not have led to any overthrow of the government, necessarily

Now I'm glad Fox cancelled FF, which forced Joss to overthrow The Govt.

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Wednesday, June 1, 2011 3:54 AM

ZEEK

I guess the thing I've been wondering about reavers is why they don't kill each other? You'd think if all that the pax did to them was make them hyper aggressive then there would be like a giant fight for supremacy until there was just the strongest reaver left. I don't see reavers ever giving up.

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Wednesday, June 1, 2011 7:49 AM

BYTEMITE

Nah, not really. Even in the movie it's suggested that the Miranda broadwave didn't do much beyond give rest to the dead and closure for the living. 'Verse rolled over and went back to sleep.

Zeek: I guess for the same reason normally UNreasonable psychopaths can organize. Pecking order, and on some level a kind of understanding.

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Wednesday, June 1, 2011 3:58 PM

INVADERCHAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
I guess the thing I've been wondering about reavers is why they don't kill each other? You'd think if all that the pax did to them was make them hyper aggressive then there would be like a giant fight for supremacy until there was just the strongest reaver left. I don't see reavers ever giving up.

I asked myself that same question when what happened on Miranda was revealed. I mean, they're turned into super hostile beasties who kill out of pure rage and yet they've clearly allied themselves with each other.

Going with the possibility that Joss was getting some of his ideas from Firefly out in Dollhouse though, I think the line about 'An army programmed to kill anyone who's not programmed to kill anyone' is a reasonable explanation, they attack anything that isn't a reaver? Obviously it wasn't done on purpose though.

The other option of pecking order etc. also seems equally reasonable though. They can fly ships, set traps and basically reproduce by mindraping their victims so they're clearly smarter than they're given credit for. Maybe they're like pack animals or something...though I still find it weird that such primal creatures band together at all. How would reavers even differentiate another reaver from a human? Especially back on Miranda before they started cutting on themselves and stuff.

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Wednesday, June 1, 2011 8:35 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I too always imagine the Reavers as pack animals, they clearly have a pecking order and some restraint as far as not eating each other, or at least not eating their packmates. The points about complex tasks like spaceship opperation are duely noted, it would be difficult to do those coordinated things without talking, but I always imagined that they sort of had sounds/grunts that could form basic commands, like animals do, animals coordinate to hunt in groups etc. so I figured that Reavers just had a slightly more complext communication method than pack animals like wolves or lions.

I do think it is cool that they weren't going to show the Reavers for a long time, that way everyone would find them a little more scary, the unknown and all that. That's the best thing that Joss said in this interview in my opinion, genius idea. Other than that though, the building up of the Reavers, I don't see anything here that would indicate to me that the continuing episodes would suit me into the third, fourth, fifth season, I'd probably only have liked the first two or three seasons based on this information.

But not showing the Reavers is genius and would have way cooler than the BDM in my opinion, creating major build up. And the other thing that he says here which I found interesting is that he wasn't quite sure where the Reavers came from until he was writing the film, this makes sense, in pretends I'm not always sure what I'm going to have happen to the charactors until I get there.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, June 2, 2011 4:00 AM

ZEEK

I don't know about the not seeing reavers thing. I'd probably be like one of the people who wrote and article for Finding Serenity. The longer we didn't see the reavers the more I'd start to come up with conspiracy theories that they're not at all what people think. I think his theory was something like the government was hiding something and created this "boogie man" idea of reavers to keep people away. Then they just hired groups to carry out reaver like acts and leave no survivors so the stories continue to spread.

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Thursday, June 2, 2011 4:32 AM

BYTEMITE

Hmm? I don't see that he particularly gave anything up about the third, fourth, or fifth seasons. What is it you disapprove of?

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Thursday, June 2, 2011 4:34 AM

BYTEMITE

While a big part of the Alliance tries to deny the existence of reavers, I'm sure there are factors, maybe even Alliance factions, that have exploited the reaver scare to cover their own activities. That would be a fun plot point.

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Thursday, June 2, 2011 1:32 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

You know me Byte. I don't know that I would like a continuing Firefly show after the BDM. I enjoy stories after the BDM well enough as long as I think everyone's written well enough, but concrete cannon without Wash and Book might be a real bummer for me, I'd miss them a lot. It would have to be amazing for me to stick around.

Yeah I guess you have a point Zeke, but that would be an interesting idea too.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, June 2, 2011 5:31 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST

I think with all the self mutilation they'd have split their tongues or at the very least cut into them significantly so that they were unable to talk.

I like the idea that they cannot speak, yet manage to coordinate tricky stuff like; flying a spaceship, equalizing cabin pressure or making sure they don't show up at a slaughtering wearing the same outfits... Imagine that Reaver faux pas!

Now I think of it... Are there female Reavers?

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

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Friday, June 3, 2011 7:30 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Only under an insane amount of torture.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Friday, June 3, 2011 1:53 PM

GREENKA61

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Joss might never havew shown them talking, but I find it difficult to believe that Reavers could operate space ships and plan attacks as well as they did in both the BDS and BDM without some form of communication.

B]

Maybe they were driven crazy by being able to hear each other's thoughts. The constant noise of everyone's thoughts all the time with no silence would be maddening, but it would also let them be able to coordinate attacks without speaking.

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Friday, June 3, 2011 3:50 PM

THEHAPPYTRADER

Quote:
Originally posted by greenka61:
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Joss might never havew shown them talking, but I find it difficult to believe that Reavers could operate space ships and plan attacks as well as they did in both the BDS and BDM without some form of communication.

B]

Maybe they were driven crazy by being able to hear each other's thoughts. The constant noise of everyone's thoughts all the time with no silence would be maddening, but it would also let them be able to coordinate attacks without speaking.

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe there's even like a queen reaver and they're all hive-mindy, or maybe they are like the geth from Mass Effect.

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