GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

I Am Not River6213

POSTED BY: DAYVE
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 03:00
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3226
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Monday, August 14, 2006 5:52 AM

DAYVE


ok, i missed a lot of stuff over the weekend... and caught a little of the weirdness this morning...

So, for the record, I am not one of the River6213 characters...or am I...?..

no, no..i'm not

but now i'm wondering about the rest of you.....


EDIT: after posting this, i realized it is destined for troll country... sorry for the waste of time....




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Monday, August 14, 2006 5:54 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


I'm not.














Honest!




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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:04 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


I am everyone

No really I am not - yes I am - no I ain't.








We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:06 AM

EVERYONE


No, I'm everyone!

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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:07 AM

MAL4PREZ


I'm not... and yet I am.

There's a little bit of River in all of us, which is why we love her so, even when she's taking a virtual hacksaw to us.



-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:08 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Holy crap! I forgot about you!

I am everyone- and THE EVERYONE and all in between.

and here in the south we call our family members like River - excentric - we is proud of'em





We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:11 AM

EVERYONE


sigh Everyone always forgets about me...

Uh oh!

disappears in a paradox

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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:13 AM

DAYVE


I am he as you are he as you are me
and we are all together
See how they run like pigs from a gun
see how they fly
I'm crying
Sitting on a cornflake
Waiting for the van to come
Corporation T-shirt, stupid bloody Tuesday
Man you've been a naughty boy
you let your face grow long

I am the eggman
they are the eggmen
I am the walrus
Goo goo g' joob



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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:15 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


thanks a bunch

now I will have that in my head for the rest of the day.

Everyone - everyone loves everyone

and wez love you too!





We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:16 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


Cognito, ergo I sum. Cognita?




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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:19 AM

MSG


LOL desktop:)
Ok so I am not River either...sadly according to all those quizzes I am Mal ( with a bit of Jayne)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2


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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:24 AM

DAYVE


I think, therefore I am...a yam?... a canned ham.... fried spam????



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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:32 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Faustus had signed his life away, and was, ipso facto, incapable of repentance





We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:53 AM

DEEPGIRL187


Not River...at least last time I checked.

**************************************************

"Oooh, synchronizers!"

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Monday, August 14, 2006 6:59 AM

ODDSBODSKINS


i am not a rubber haddock.

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Monday, August 14, 2006 7:07 AM

TRISTAN


I...am not...an animal!

______________________________________

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Monday, August 14, 2006 7:11 AM

CITIZEN


I am Legion, for I am many.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Monday, August 14, 2006 7:14 AM

MAL4PREZ


Hey guys... I've not been in the middle of this, and I don't want to be, but it's been clear to me for a while that River is someone with her own problems. I'm not excusing the crazy sh*t she does here, but persecuting her for it doesn't help anyone.

This thing is starting to look like a pack of wolves descending on the weakest one in the herd, and the attack isn't always hitting the mark. (See the recent blog of GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN)

I don't want this web site to turn into a clique, and it gives me a really icky feeling to see someone singled out, even if she's asked for it. And yes - she has asked for it. She's been downright mean. But I think, and I have for a while, that she's wanting to be shunned by the people on this site. I think this is the only social good thing she has in her life, and it says something really heartbreaking about her that she's trying to get herself cast out of it. It breaks my heart anyway.

Please... be nice. Or at least refrain from cruelty.


-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Monday, August 14, 2006 7:18 AM

DAYVE


Mal... i didn't intend to pick on River6213... i was simply pointing out the fact that i am not one of her/his 19 different personalities.... that's all... and to think that someone would actually go to that much trouble in the first place is .... well, for lack of a better word...weird.... (not that there's anything wrong with weird... but, just sayin...)



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Monday, August 14, 2006 7:23 AM

SPACEANJL


I am not a number, I am a...oh, sod, here come the giant beachballs...

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Monday, August 14, 2006 7:30 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Dayve:
Mal... i didn't intend to pick on River6213... i was simply pointing out the fact that i am not one of her/his 19 different personalities.... that's all... and to think that someone would actually go to that much trouble in the first place is .... well, for lack of a better word...weird.... (not that there's anything wrong with weird... but, just sayin...)



Thanks Dayve! You haven't been insulting... it was mostly the blog that got me worried, and this shows signs of becoming a witch hunt. I sure as hell hope people are better than that!

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Monday, August 14, 2006 7:30 AM

MAVOURNEEN


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Hey guys... I've not been in the middle of this, and I don't want to be, but it's been clear to me for a while that River is someone with her own problems. I'm not excusing the crazy sh*t she does here, but persecuting her for it doesn't help anyone.

-----------------------------------------------



*Mav has stayed faaar away from this, until I read this post*

I have to say, I agree with mal4prez...to a point.

I'm much more concerned about the post where she mentions a friend "hacked this site" and she "has a list of everyone's screen names."

That to me is over the edge, and over the line.
*Unacceptable behaviour*
For this, if anyone deserves a ban, it is her.

I don't care who is whom. I think most people would agree with that.

Citizen = Haken = Joe Mama?

So????

After someone attacked FMF last week with the "Dirty Laundry" incident, I decided to ignore those people who post this crap, and embrace those who came to this site for the same reason I did - to be amongst people who are devoted to Firefly as I am. 99.44% of the people I've come across are awesome folks. I can deal with ignoring the other .56%.

"Have you ever been with a Warrior Woman?"

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Monday, August 14, 2006 7:40 AM

FOLLOWMAL




I think if there was more ignorin' we'd all come out ahead. It's not easy to do I know, but I think it's for the best.

Trouble is when the the board is lit up with this much discontent and meanness, there isn't much room left over for the good stuff. News gets shoved off the page, new folks get ignored or worse yet.. ambushed. I hope that Haken will solve this problem as only he can.

In between I intend to be nice to newcomers and all alike and hope that River or any one of her alternate personalities will try to get along.
We are all lucky to have this nice place I think.... this is a haven for most and even for her if she'd admit it. I value it. I intend to help it stay the wonderful place that it is.

"You hold. Hold 'til I get back." Mal

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=19&t=22697

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Monday, August 14, 2006 7:42 AM

ZZETTA13


Just because I like to tear the labels off of cans (but not canned yams) and count the pebbles in the sand,if the mule isn't going to fast,does not make me River6213. I am completely sane. Right?

Z

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Monday, August 14, 2006 7:43 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Mavourneen:
I have to say, I agree with mal4prez...to a point.

I'm much more concerned about the post where she mentions a friend "hacked this site" and she "has a list of everyone's screen names."

That to me is over the edge, and over the line.
*Unacceptable behaviour*
For this, if anyone deserves a ban, it is her.



Hey - ban her. But let Haken do it! Sending hate mail and bashing her publicly only plays into whatever game she's got going with herself.

It will also hurt other people (did you read the blog?) and make for a very very ugly environment. The kind that may scare off as many newbies as River scares away with her craziness.

This was the first and only website I've been a member of, and I love it because this kind of nastiness doesn't happen.

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Monday, August 14, 2006 7:44 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


OK

I am weighing in now because I am tired of all this crap. Listen up - the blog is not what it is attempting to look like. As we all are aware PD and Guy go around attacking each other - PD was up late and saw Guy online and sent an invitation.

I can only assume that Guy had his feelings hurt, by a joking comment I made, and then it was compounded with all this other crap.

I have made my apologies to Guy for hurting his feelings- however unintentioned it was and I understand that PD has done the same.

River is doing what River does. If everyone would stop freaking out about it and go about their business she will stop - until the next time.

Come on people - nothing to see here!

FMF is not amused anymore

This is a shiny site - NO ONE should be banned. If someone doesn't play nice - pick up your ball and go home. They will learn.





We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Monday, August 14, 2006 7:46 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


Mal4Prez,

I appreciate what you're saying, and it speaks volumes for you that you're defending River against mean posts after all she's done. I understand that you don't want people here to be hurt or singled out, and I haven't read GWWFOHO's log, but I'll do that pretty much now.

But when it comes to River, I'm afraid all bets are off with me.

One in five people suffer or have suffered some form of mental illness. I am one of those five. I know loads of other people who are also members of that fairly sucky club, and while I haven't gone through anything like what River claims to have gone through, I do know people with similar backgrounds. And some of them are angry. And some of them lash out. That's pretty much the nature of the beast.

But when they ~do~ lash out, there are consequences. They don't get to say anything they want and blame it on their childhood trauma. They don't get to deliberately hurt people and then never have it mentioned again. Either they are kept away from the people they are hurting until their illness passes, or they are removed from the lives of those who are vulnerable for as long as it takes for them to get better.

I have every sympathy in the world for those suffering from mental illness, but being bullied over the internet is no less hurtful than being bullied face to face. People were targeted here, by River. People were called horrible names, by River. She set out to hurt posters here and to cause the maximum amount of chaos because she wanted to provoke a reaction. This is not okay.

If this is because she suffers from a mental illness, then she needs to be told to go and get the help she needs to sort it, and prevented from causing harm here as much as possible. I say if because to be quite honest I think she is a liar, just another troublemaker out to cause a fuss. As I posted in her thread, she lost the right to be taken seriously a long time ago. It is not okay for her to dump her vinegar mouthed hatred all over this board. We're a family sure, and we'll support each other when things are rough, but there is a limit. There has to be, for the safety and happiness of other posters here.

I don't want this place to be a clique either, I really don't. What I love most about this place is that no one cares if you've been here four days or four years, everyone is welcome to post on everything and everyone is listened to. That is truly rare on a posting board, and it's brilliant that we have that kind of atmosphere here. I want it to stay, and I have faith that it will.

But we didn't single River out. She singled herself out. She wanted a reaction and she got one. She is fast losing sympathy and less and less people are interested in what she says and does. I'm happy that this thread was started, because we have several new people who joined us just today and I for one want them to know that River is not the norm on this board and that she should be avoided wherever possible. The last thing we need is people being put off this board because they think we allow other posters to be flamed.

That's my opinion on the subject. I will accept any and all criticism of it. I only ask that you PM me if it's going to get personal. Lets keep the threads shiny, people.

EDIT - that last line wasn't directed at you, Mal4Prez! It was to anyone who wants to take me up on this.




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Monday, August 14, 2006 7:48 AM

FOLLOWMAL


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
But let Haken do it!
This was the first and only website I've been a member of, and I love it because this kind of nastiness doesn't happen.



This is the kind of situation that only a board admin. can handle and should handle, IMHO.

Let's all continue with the care and kindness we usually show each other and get back to what we love doing. I miss us just talking about the 'verse and what we can do to have more.
And that special quality that only this board has... that feeling of home.






"You hold. Hold 'til I get back." Mal

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=19&t=22697

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Monday, August 14, 2006 7:51 AM

MAVOURNEEN


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Quote:

Originally posted by Mavourneen:
I have to say, I agree with mal4prez...to a point.

I'm much more concerned about the post where she mentions a friend "hacked this site" and she "has a list of everyone's screen names."

That to me is over the edge, and over the line.
*Unacceptable behaviour*
For this, if anyone deserves a ban, it is her.



Hey - ban her. But let Haken do it! Sending hate mail and bashing her publicly only plays into whatever game she's got going with herself.



Couldn't agree with you more ... and wasn't in any way disagreeing.

I want to talk Firefly and share my love for it with those who agree and those who have yet to enter the 'verse.

Guess that's what I'll do.

*Mav backs faaaar out of this thread.*


"Have you ever been with a Warrior Woman?"

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Monday, August 14, 2006 7:55 AM

FOLLOWMAL


Quote:

Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
I'm happy that this thread was started, because we have several new people who joined us just today and I for one want them to know that River is not the norm on this board and that she should be avoided wherever possible. The last thing we need is people being put off this board because they think we allow other posters to be flamed.



Imagine most of you what it would have been like to be greeted by River in mean mode or in alias mean mode when you arrived. Not a pretty picture. Would you have stayed? This is exactly my worry with this.

I don't think any of us want more than for everything to return to shiny times and let's be a happy site again.



"You hold. Hold 'til I get back." Mal

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=19&t=22697

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Monday, August 14, 2006 8:03 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
Mal4Prez,

One in five people suffer or have suffered some form of mental illness. I am one of those five.



*raises hand shyly*

yes, been there too. Know how it feels to be mean and push people away, know how it feels to be around people who can't stop their meanness.

I appreciate and share your feelings. I have written River long mails telling her my story in hopes that it would help her find her way, and to see her getting worse is hard.

I just don't see cruelty as the answer. That's all. (Not talking to anyone posting here, just any lurkers who think that nasty PMs are the way) She's clearly not able to get help right now, and while we can ban her, she seems tech savvy enough to keep coming back.

I like keeping an eye out for her mean posts, to let newbies know to blow her off. Yeah - cause that would have killed me, to get a post like the ones she's left! But there's not much else we can do, like it or not. Let's stop the hate, okay? Deal with it as cool as we can, and keep it shiny.

OK, I'll stop ranting now! Thanks for being nice about it!

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Monday, August 14, 2006 9:19 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
I don't want this web site to turn into a clique, and it gives me a really icky feeling to see someone singled out, even if she's asked for it. And yes - she has asked for it. She's been downright mean. But I think, and I have for a while, that she's wanting to be shunned by the people on this site. I think this is the only social good thing she has in her life, and it says something really heartbreaking about her that she's trying to get herself cast out of it. It breaks my heart anyway.

Please... be nice. Or at least refrain from cruelty.

I'm not going to support starting a thread to attack anyone, including River. She has however started threads to attack me and has done some other things that are perhaps a little more than Troll like. The best I can say for her is if she keeps out of my way I'll keep out of hers, but I'm afraid I will not hold my tongue to spare her if she goes out of her way to attack me.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Monday, August 14, 2006 10:47 AM

LOSTDOG


No, not River, but I yam what I yam and that's all that I yam and I think I missed a hell of alot this weekend.

[Ching-wah tsao duh liou mahng!]

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Monday, August 14, 2006 10:51 AM

BIGDAMNTEXAN


just in case anybody is concerned
I am nobody"s puppet and just 1 person acual and whole
don"t see much use for more than one account anyway's

It's to much fun to be just me anyhow






"To thine own self be true"

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Monday, August 14, 2006 11:11 AM

ZOID


I am not River.

But I have urinated into a number of them...



v/r,
-zed

P.S.
...Usually only when there weren't any trees handy. Nobody here is a Tree, are they? Cuz if so, I'm really sorry. Same goes for any Walls Outside Of Bars. What can I say? I'm a guy. I've peed on a lot of stuff, just because it was there and I could...
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Monday, August 14, 2006 11:15 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


Ewwwwwwww! This hippie won't be hugging any trees for a while...




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Monday, August 14, 2006 11:26 AM

SIMONWHO


You think that's bad? I've drunk out of rivers. I hope you were standing downstream Zoid.

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Monday, August 14, 2006 11:41 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


I am not a body of flowing water... just so's y'all know...

---

Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!

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Monday, August 14, 2006 11:48 AM

ZOID


SimonWho engaged in some wishful thinking, thus:
Quote:

You think that's bad? I've drunk out of rivers. I hope you were standing downstream Zoid.

Ummm... Where do you think fish pee?

...And then you've got that whole 'procreation of the fishy species' thing...

Still, it never pays to be too squeamish about these things. Humans would do well never to lose sight of the fact that we are only organisms, more or less like any other organism. (NB: Albeit with big brains. I think that's a good thing, but I'll have to get back to you.) If the other animals are not particularly fussy about it, I don't see why we should be.

In fact, I'll go out on a limb and say drinking from a river is probably safer for you in the long run than a diet consisting of foodstuffs bought from your local supermarket...



Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
On the other hand, in the short run, if you drink from a River without purifying the water first, you'll probably come down with a nasty case of incontinence. Your body just no longer has the natural defenses against such microbial critters.

Just try not to do it in the River, if you do get sick. It's creepifyin' enough in there already...

What the hell were we talkin' about, again?
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Monday, August 14, 2006 11:52 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


Quote:

What the hell were we talkin' about, again?



I really have no idea.

*head spinning with images of urinating fish*




More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Monday, August 14, 2006 11:53 AM

DAYVE


Diving Duck Blues

(written by T. Mahal)

If the river was whiskey
I would be a diving duck
If the river was whiskey
I would be a diving duck
I would swim to the bottom, but I would drink my way up

If you were a good woman
I would never have to roam
If you were a good woman
I would never have to roam
I’d give up drinking whiskey and I would always stay at home

River go to the ocean, ocean go to the sea
Why you ain’t no good woman
A mystery to me
River go to the ocean, ocean go to the sea
And like a fish has got to swim, you’ve got to make a fool out of me

If the river was whiskey
I would be a diving duck
If the river was whiskey
I would be a diving duck
I would swim to the bottom, but I would drink my way up



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Monday, August 14, 2006 12:10 PM

DAVESHAYNE


I am Spartacus!

No, wait. I'm not Spartacus.

I've got it, I'm Brian! Nope that's not right either.

Maybe I should check the list: I am Iron Man? Nope. I am The Cheese? That's not right either. I am woman hear me roar. *checks down shirt* Apparantly not. I don't seem to know who I am.

David

"Not completely as well as the series of Firefly..." - From a review of Serenity at amazon.de

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Monday, August 14, 2006 12:10 PM

ZOID



D'Hip:

Ever have a fish bowl when you were a kid? Or maybe even an aquarium in your house, today?

You feed the fishies, and then they make poopie. If you don't keep the inside of their bowl clean, it gets all rancid, green and generally unhealthy. Remember?

Same thing with River, except a lot fishier and full of crap...



Analogically,

zoid

P.S.
Nothing worse than a stagnant River that can't flush itself...
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Monday, August 14, 2006 12:49 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
I'm not... and yet I am.

There's a little bit of River in all of us, which is why we love her so, even when she's taking a virtual hacksaw to us.



-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.



I don't.

And she's making me not want to come here anymore.

If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting

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Monday, August 14, 2006 1:24 PM

ZOID


Misstressahara wrote:
Quote:

...she's making me not want to come here anymore.

What do you suppose the odds are that that's exactly how he/she is trying to make people feel?

I've interacted with 'her' a couple of times, and I will say this without fear of contradiction: River6213, whomever he or she may actually be -- whether poor, unloved 'rich bitch' (by her own admission) or pimple-faced Boy Loser -- is deeply ill in the head.

Whether 'she' is who she says she is, or whether it's all an elaborate act, a well person doesn't engage in the games 'she' plays. And here's the thing with sick people who know they are sick, and do nothing about it: They'll destroy you, in the process of destroying themselves.

I've watched as much of this as I can stomach. Some people think she can be healed through their love and understanding. If they're just understanding enough, she will magically be transformed into a considerate person.

That's called co-dependency. 'She' needs to seek professional help, and well-intending-but-ultimately-clueless people need to stop enabling her predatory and destructive behavior. Period, dot, end of story.

In the meantime, my advice to everyone is to get as far from her as you possibly can. When one of these big 'ships of the head' goes under, it sucks everything near it to the bottom as well.

As to you, Misstressahara: Try to focus on the good stuff. The good news is, if 'she' (or anyone else) tries to mug you, well, it ain't a real mugging. You can't ignore a real mugging...



Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
I used to kill trolls on this site. But nobody wins when you do. The poison necessary to rid the place of vermin, sickens the rightful inhabitants as well. The best thing to do is starve 'em to death.
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

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Monday, August 14, 2006 1:32 PM

HELL'S KITTEN


Hell's Kitten *hearts* Zoid


************************************************
Not captioned for the sarcasm impaired.

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Monday, August 14, 2006 1:41 PM

TRAVELER


Hello Everybody:

I think this is an excellent thread. We all have our ways to deal with issues such as this. And we need to blow off steam.

Friday I saw River6213 messing with onthedrifts head. I don't know onthedrift, maybe younger or older than me, but a Browncoat is a Browncoat. I will help any Browncoat attacked the way River6213 attacked onthedrift. She says she knows she has problems. If you know you have problems, you seek help. I know because I suffer from some. I am a recovering alcoholic. A child of an alcoholic. I suffer from depression. It took my doctor fifteen years to learn I was bipolar. I have seen my share. No. I'm not looking for self pity. Drinking booze was my own choice. Self inflicted wound you may say. But I am locky. I discovered what a horses I was making of my self and got help. Along the way the good people of AA have taught me to help others and not to attack those who are suffering themselves. I never responded to any of River6213 taunts. She can Blah Blah Blah all day and I will not respond. I do not feed trolls! I don't know if I did all the right things friday night, but I got a thread to Haken. I have since learned there are better methods and will use them in the future. I know good people when I meet them, and you are good people. I aim to stay.

God Bless Every Last Soul On This Site
Traveler

Traveler is now going back to the business of this fansite, discussing Firefly, Imponderables, and limericks.


Yes. You bring up limericks again and you will have to suffer through poor attempts at them.

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Monday, August 14, 2006 1:49 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Traveler!

I accept the Challenge!





We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!

one of the Forsaken TM

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Monday, August 14, 2006 1:52 PM

ZOID



Hell's Kitten wrote:
Quote:

Hell's Kitten *hearts* Zoid

*zoid swoons... in a manly fashion, of course*




v/r,
-zed

_________________________________________________

"Is it christmas?" -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Firefly, "Our Mrs. Reynolds"

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Monday, August 14, 2006 1:58 PM

SHINY


Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:

This is a shiny site - NO ONE should be banned. If someone doesn't play nice - pick up your ball and go home. They will learn.



In addition to the very good advice of not responding to personal attacks or other trollish posts, please also contact me or Succatash (via our profiles) so we can delete the offending posts.

Just please try not to add fuel to the fire, 'cuz I would rather just delete one post than fifty, dong ma?


---

I don't need a gorram back-spaceship driver!!!

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