GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Male and Female Imponderables--The Fields of Athenry

POSTED BY: TRISTAN
UPDATED: Monday, November 27, 2006 11:51
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4753
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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 2:44 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


Sorry LA.

The book is Stranger in a Strange Land, by Robert Heinlein. If you have not read it, go read it, and if you like, I will send you a copy, on me.

~Jimi
jimi dot spettel at gmail dot com
Self-Proclaimed Grand Vizier of Georgia


- Animation by DesktopHippie

"Marijuana not only should be legal, it should be manditory." - Bill Hicks

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 2:51 AM

MAGDALENA

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"


Good morning wonderful Penguin!! I am well... take care on your travels please!! Tomorrow - ah...make that today... I will be working 10+ hours as usual... but then we don't have a Thanksgiving holiday in Australia - just trivial things like... ah... Melbourne Cup Day (horse racing) and the like!

I know Little Albatross... if it isn't happening already that is... Ooooooh - is Sean adorable or what??




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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 2:56 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


For Thanksgiving, I am driving ~70 miles west to my parents' house. We are going tomorrow morning (I have to work second job tonight) and staying through Sunday night. We will have a huge meal (naturally) then just lounge around and watch football the rest of the weekend.

Saturday is the Big Game for us, Georgia vs. Georgia Tech. Big rivalry. We usually have a plethora of dips and other appetizers, as well as shrimp and a bushel or so of oysters.

GO JACKETS !!!!!



Penguin, I know you edit pictures, and I was wondering if you could give one of these Buzzes here a browncoat. Also, I got some more of the penguin shaped goldfish, and will try to post some pictures for you today.

~Jimi
jimi dot spettel at gmail dot com
Self-Proclaimed Grand Vizier of Georgia


- Animation by DesktopHippie

"Marijuana not only should be legal, it should be manditory." - Bill Hicks

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 3:08 AM

MAGDALENA

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"


Ooooh - I totally forgot to mention that I am a genealogy fiend too!! My parents recently returned from a trip to the UK and Europe - they even visited the town of Queddlinburg where my great-great grandmother was born and visited the church where she was baptised... they took lots of photos too! I have forebears from England (Cornwall, Northampton, Staffordshire and Lancashire predominantly) and Wales(Cardiganshire) as well as Scotland (Paisley) and gErmany (Hamburg and Queddlinburg) and almost all of them migrated to Australia during the gold rush of the 1850s - I have always loved history - but it does give it new significance if you can place an ancestor in the context of it all...

I actually hope to write a book or two about my Cornish/Lancashire heritage one day - sort of juvenille fiction based on real life events...

Thanks NVG & VerseExplorer for raising that topic... Oh ...NVG does that mean you are from the Sioux Totem/Tribe? I have sometimes wondered, but not remembering enough of my history I couldn't make the connection based on your location...




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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 3:40 AM

TRISTAN


Morning, all!

As to teaching children history, I second that. Not just world history, but the history of their family; where they came from and who their ancestors are.
My biological father was a big proponent of this concept...it is the one thing that I respect him for. He traced his family (therefore mine) back to right around the late 1500's. I have seen the reams and reams of paper, seen the photographs and paintings, and have had the opportunity to walk where some of my ancestors lived.

Emma, once again, welcome back! I'll probably be saying that at least a few more times.

ShinyKitten, it's good to see another history nut amongst us!

13! Well, where have you been hiding! And you are right, French-Canadians are all right people.

Hell's Kitten! Ooh, don't leave! It's good to see you in here. Stay awhile, leave a few words!

Magda! And you shall know me by the coffee cup!

Penguin, for Thanksgiving, I'll be having my remaining family over to my house for dinner. My mother and I will be sharing cooking duties...which should be entertaining! I am looking forward to the food coma and conversation!

Good morning to all those I missed. Today is a Friday for me, so it could be a bit busy. I'll try to pop in every now and then.

Coffee....must have coffee....

______________________________________

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 3:55 AM

MAGDALENA

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"


Oh!! Oh!! Look - it's the coffee cup!!

Ah Tristan Good morning qing ren...




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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 4:06 AM

TRISTAN


And how are you this fine, fine day, my qing ren?
We're gearing up for 5:00 already...lots of work to get done, but the tree is already getting decorated in the front office.

______________________________________

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 4:58 AM

MAGDALENA

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"


It's actually a fine, fine night my dear Tristan... and I am for my bed!

Do you mean... the Christmas tree... already???

Goodnight my fellow Imponderers... don't forget to pop in to the 'Penguin Day..' thread please!!

And - Happy Thanks-giving everyone!! - Magda x x x




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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 5:00 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


Have a good sleep magda, and a good weekend (when yours gets here).

*bigassjimibearhuggles*

~Jimi
jimi dot spettel at gmail dot com
Self-Proclaimed Grand Vizier of Georgia


- Animation by DesktopHippie

"Marijuana not only should be legal, it should be manditory." - Bill Hicks

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 5:04 AM

TRISTAN


Well...night, morning, evening...how about "Howdy, ma'am!"
And yes, I mean the Christmas tree...they are serious about this holiday!
Sleep well, qing ren, and I will talk to you anon!

______________________________________

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 5:33 AM

LITTLEALBATROSS29


Morning Ponderers .Or night ? HAows hello ?

Are we pondering something today ?

RIMG - I'll take your reccomendation & pick up the book.I'm intrigued .

I only have to travel 10 minutes tomorrow. My mother-in -law is cooking & she & my in laws will provide the sour moods & inconsiderate lateness .YAY for family.The food will be good though.

Bryce
******************************



So unstable inside and out.Don't know how much longer I'll take it.If you'd like I'll sell you a ticket, or you can get in for free.Am I enough of a freak , to be worth paying to see ? -Marillion

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 5:42 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


Quote:

Originally posted by LittleAlbatross29:
RIMG - I'll take your reccomendation & pick up the book.I'm intrigued .

I only have to travel 10 minutes tomorrow. My mother-in -law is cooking & she & my in laws will provide the sour moods & inconsiderate lateness .YAY for family.The food will be good though.



YAY for you getting/reading the book !!!!!

LOL @ bringing sour moods and lateness...hehehehe

~Jimi
jimi dot spettel at gmail dot com
Self-Proclaimed Grand Vizier of Georgia


- Animation by DesktopHippie

"Marijuana not only should be legal, it should be manditory." - Bill Hicks

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 5:46 AM

LITTLEALBATROSS29


YAY for me getting a good new story to read .Thanks for suggesting it.

Ain't family holidays fun ? - why yes that is my sarcasm dripping off those words ....

Bryce
****************************************





So unstable inside and out.Don't know how much longer I'll take it.If you'd like I'll sell you a ticket, or you can get in for free.Am I enough of a freak , to be worth paying to see ? -Marillion

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 5:47 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


Ours are, but we usually have lots of booze.



~Jimi
jimi dot spettel at gmail dot com
Self-Proclaimed Grand Vizier of Georgia


- Animation by DesktopHippie

"Marijuana not only should be legal, it should be manditory." - Bill Hicks

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 5:52 AM

LITTLEALBATROSS29



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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 5:55 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


Every time I go to my parents' house, mom offers me a beer within 5 minutes of being there. She has a handle of Cuervo and one of Jack that need finishing, may do some work on them this weekend.

~Jimi
jimi dot spettel at gmail dot com
Self-Proclaimed Grand Vizier of Georgia


- Animation by DesktopHippie

"Marijuana not only should be legal, it should be manditory." - Bill Hicks

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 5:56 AM

GED


Morning folks, hope all is well.

__________________________________________________
This above all, — to thine ownself be true.
http://www.myspace.com/artv

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 6:01 AM

LITTLEALBATROSS29


Sounds like fun to me.
Although tequila straight makes me a very sick albatross. But we could mix into one of those divine margaritas !


Hello GED - I don't think we've met yet, but may I ask if your name is from Wizard Of Earhtsea ? And if we have met before , I've probably asked you this.So please forive me if that's the case, I've got no short term memory.

Bryce
******************************




So unstable inside and out.Don't know how much longer I'll take it.If you'd like I'll sell you a ticket, or you can get in for free.Am I enough of a freak , to be worth paying to see ? -Marillion

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 6:07 AM

GED


OKay, just getting caught up, or attempting to anyway.

Killing: I would protect my family and friends if need be, and if someone were threatening them and my only choice is to kill them, I would do so to protect those that I love.

Divorce: Okay, I couldn't find the imponderable about divorce, but here are my views on it. I would try to make it work if it was possible and if my SO wanted it too. But if the love has been extinguished or if some infidelity occurred by her, then I wouldn't hesitate.

__________________________________________________
This above all, — to thine ownself be true.
http://www.myspace.com/artv

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 6:09 AM

GED


Hey Bryce, we have met a long time ago and yes, my name is indeed from A Wizard of Earthsea. That is one of my favorite books. I've read the entire series by Le Guin. It's quite good. Good to see you again though!

__________________________________________________
This above all, — to thine ownself be true.
http://www.myspace.com/artv

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 6:16 AM

TRISTAN


Howdy, LA29 and GED!

Oh, I love holidays! This one will be a little bit odd....it's the first time in quite awhile there will be an odd number of chairs around the table. But I'm with RIMG here...I have a full bar downstairs, so all manner of things will be well!
And I may have you beat, LA29. I only have to walk down my hall and I'll be at my Thanksgiving dinner.

______________________________________

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 6:17 AM

ASORTAFAIRYTALE


Hiya everyone!
I'm only kinda caught up, but here's my opinions:

I personally love to shop being a reall girly girl and all, but I'll have to at least buy one thing to make it fun, which is why I usually shop at really cheapo clothes stores...

I would never kill either. I'm kind of a pacifist, and I don't think that killing is ever the best solution.

Divorce I think would be okay if the marriage really wasn't right, and if the people were not happy at all. But I don't agree with it if they just don't want to try at all to get it to work.

---------
Love keeps her in the air when she outta fall down, tells you she's hurting before she keels. Makes her a home.


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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 6:18 AM

LITTLEALBATROSS29


Sorry for not remembering.I'm like Dory from Finding Nemo that way . I also love that series, and recently read Tales OF Earthsea too.She's one amazing author.

I'll not forget you again !

Tristan - that's why next year all holidays will be at my house.I'll still have to hide my booze from my brother-in-law though .

Bryce
*****************************



So unstable inside and out.Don't know how much longer I'll take it.If you'd like I'll sell you a ticket, or you can get in for free.Am I enough of a freak , to be worth paying to see ? -Marillion

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 6:34 AM

GED


No worries Lil albatross! I haven't read Tales or The Other Wind yet. I have them both, but I am reading 1984 right now and I ave Eragon lined up next.

__________________________________________________
This above all, — to thine ownself be true.
http://www.myspace.com/artv

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 6:43 AM

ASORTAFAIRYTALE


Ooh, Ged if you read 1984, then you have to read We by Zamyatin.(sp?) To tell the truth I haven't read 1984, but We was what that book was based on, and it was a pretty cool one.
Another great sci-fi type book is War of the Worlds...It's nothing like the movie I'll tell ya that. I really hate it when they make a really lousy movie out of a really good book, and so everyone assumes that the book sucks too...
Anyways, sorry to go off on a totally unrelated rant...

---------
Love keeps her in the air when she outta fall down, tells you she's hurting before she keels. Makes her a home.


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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 6:46 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER


Good morning everyone.

I missed ya Mags, but I did catch your question. I am actually Paiute/Shoshone from Stillwater Nevada (area a few miles east of Fallon, East of Reno by about seventy miles, and 385 miles North of Vegas). I throw in the distance from the larger cities 'cause fols always ask, "Is that by Las Vegas?"
The Ghost Dance vision carried quite a long way Northeast and many people in between caught on to it. I was reading that even the people Copilot come from had their own spin on the whole thing.

(Heads for the Penguin Day thread)



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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 7:09 AM

TRISTAN


LA29, this is for you:



Morning, ASAFT!

Morning, NVG!

______________________________________

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 7:19 AM

MSG


Morning all- quiet a time catching up :)

13- HUGS you came. I've missed you:)

LA- hey we have busts for crack( well more meth, but not the point) all the time... you get used to it. I don't know as you could find a school ( junior high and older) that didn't have a drug problem, but I totally understand where you are coming from.

NV-HUGS..just 'cause

Tistan- hey at least you don't have the " star trek tree" My old boss was really in to Star Trek ( used to practice Klingon in his office with the door closed. and every time a new Star Trek movie came out he bought the theater out so we had a whole theater to ourselves, gave everyone a half day off with pay to go see it, took us out to lunch first , and then gave us treat money) and he had this enormous collection of Star Trek ornaments. The front reception tree was decorated in them and you had to unwrap each from it's bubble wrap and carefully hang it, then close the tree in the display case so it wouldn't get touched....it was a real pain, but somewhat festive none the less.

"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort."- Albright



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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 8:29 AM

MAVOURNEEN


Afternoon, everyone.

I just popped in to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving. I hope you are spending it with those who love you! Be thankful, be kind, and be stuffed.

Our Christmas tree sounds like your boss's, MSG. We have every Star Trek ornament since Hallmark started making them, which hang on one side of our tree. This year will be the first year Serenity will be joining the Enterprise on the Mavourneen tree.

I'm looking forward to decorating the tree with the tidbit. Now that he's 5, and less likely to pull the tree down, we can put up some of the more fragile ornaments. Last couple of years the poor tree had only unbreakable plastic ornaments.

That's a week or two away. For now, Happy Thanksgiving!



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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 10:16 AM

LITTLEALBATROSS29


I'm wondering what Sean will do to our tree this year .I'm thinking he 'll need restraints.And definately no glass on my tree.

Msg - nice to know things are the same everywhere.

Mavourneen - Srernity will be added to my tree this year too.!

Ged -1984 is an awsome read.enjoy.

Bryce
*******************************

So unstable inside and out.Don't know how much longer I'll take it.If you'd like I'll sell you a ticket, or you can get in for free.Am I enough of a freak , to be worth paying to see ? -Marillion

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 12:31 PM

HELL'S KITTEN


Quote:

Originally posted by magdalena:
Oh dear... Hells Kitten if you can't hack it over here, how are you going to cope with a 3 way battle with me and PR??? Give up now Darlin'... I'll pm you my address so you can send the Kaylee outfit by air mail!!

Er. So. You're going to ramble incoherently at me? That's your fight strategy?

I am all aquiver.

While I admit to the great potential for me being entranced by your Aussie accent, there are few and far between who can simply TALK me out of my clothing. *snikker*

But please do pm me your mailing address! Then I'll be able to send you my condolences for your loss! ... to PhoenixRose ... cuz I'm starting to think she can kick both our asses. *giggle*

************************************************
Not captioned for the sarcasm impaired.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sara013

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 12:31 PM

GED


Can I go home yet?? Everyone else in the building except my workgroup got to go home early... Dagnabbit!

__________________________________________________
This above all, — to thine ownself be true.
http://www.myspace.com/artv

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 12:47 PM

NICODEMUS


No, you have to stay and re-decorate everyone's desks and walls with Firefly stuff.

**************

(Thx to Desktop Hippie for the banner)
If you find yourself getting too worked up about stuff that isn't real (RP Threads etc), then go outside, breathe in some fresh air and try feeding the ducks. (Because ducks don't care about your politics, religion, skin colour, choice of music or even your haircut. They like everyone, provided you bring them food.)

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 12:53 PM

HELL'S KITTEN


Thanks for the explanation, VerseExplorer!
Quote:

Originally posted by Tristan:
Hell's Kitten! Ooh, don't leave! It's good to see you in here. Stay awhile, leave a few words!

A few words? Hah. Right. Not likely. Okay, let me see if I'm on track with what I'm clearly missing:

1. Divorce - I don't have a strong belief in marriage in the first place, so divorce doesn't bother me. No sense in being in a legally binding contract with someone you no longer want as a partner.

2. Killing - Erm. Yes? Or, wait. No.
If the question was "are you capable of killing someone?", then the answer is a firm "yes." Way I figure it, if I really, truly feel my life is being threatened (or the lives of my friends / family), I have no problem with the "kill or be killed" plan. No shoot-to-wound, cuz that only works in movies and my daddy taught me better. Comes down to survival and the fact that I'm not ready to let anyone take my life from me. If the question was "are you capable of murdering someone?", then my answer is...possibly. I can't dismiss the remote possibility of the worst of circumstances happening.

3. The One - Don't believe it. There are far too many Ones out there to be singular. Love and passion are too diverse to think that it's impossible to find more than once.

4. History - Um. Totally against it. (??)

5. Shopping - I think the question was something along the lines of "why do people shop without the intention of buying anything?" ? I do this all the time and I love it. I like to think of it as "Retail Therapy." My life is currently consumed by work, and sure, while it can be fun implanting strange devices into lambs and puppies, it gets bland after a while with it's never-changing scenery. So I wander malls; indoors, out doors, whatever the weather (and my cold-weather-sissiness) allows. It's an alternate sensory input kinda thing: seeing different things, new things, new people. Allows me to clear my mind of my responsibilities and simply see the pretties. Yep, Retail Therapy. *happy sigh*

Yeah, so there are your "few words." Am I anywhere in the vicinity of what these threads are for? Or have I just prattled on about something in a completely non sequitur kind of way? Which, I am good at....

************************************************
Not captioned for the sarcasm impaired.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sara013

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 1:36 PM

RUGBUG


So I've been trapped under a very large rock, or piles of paperwork and heaps of voice mail messages...y'all decide. I haven't even been able to keep up with the threads, 'cause you know...there's no internet connection under this rock.

Anyhoo...I just wanted to say Happy Thanksgiving to all my wonderful FFF.net imponderable friends. For those of you that don't have Thanksgiving...have a most fantastic day. See y'all next week!



***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 1:51 PM

EMMARIGBY


I'd like to second those thanksgiving best wishes to all my friends across the pond.

Thanks also to Tristan and Madga who always have a nice word to say to everyone! I don't know how you keep track of so many friends but I envy you your skill.

And please, oh please can people stop talking aboit Christmas? I'm so not ready and would like to pretend that I still have months to buy presents in!

___________________
Hissssssssss!

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 2:41 PM

CHRISMOORHEAD


Here's an imponderable:

How many people grew up recognizing virginity and chastity as virtues? I recently came to the understanding that part of the reason I disagree with so many people about sex is because as a child, I remember that chastity and virginity were associated with purity in my mind. I was amazed to find that so many of the friends I have, even very religious ones, were never of this mind. It's been almost like a culture shock to me.

Also, if you were ever of this mind, when and why did it change for you? Did it ever, or did you just decide that a particular person was worth sacrificing purity for?

Just as a warning of sorts, this is going to be the first in a long line of questioning I have about the topic. I've seen so much talking about sex and love here recently, and of course have it shoved in my face every time I turn a corner in day to day life, I'd like to gain a deeper understanding of what drives other people towards it. Ultimately, I am hoping to express my way of seeing things, and maybe even change a couple of perspectives.

[IMG]
Place my body on a ship and burn it on the sea,
Let my spirit rise, Valkyries carry me.
Take me to Valhalla where my brothers wait for me.
Fires burn into the sky, my spirit will never die.

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 2:55 PM

ASORTAFAIRYTALE


Quote:

Originally posted by EmmaRigby:

And please, oh please can people stop talking aboit Christmas? I'm so not ready and would like to pretend that I still have months to buy presents in!



Ugh, I agree with that! People seem to want us to start being all Christmas-y even before Thanksgiving! I dunno...the way Christmas has gotten so commercialized really bothers me sometimes. Has anyone else seen the previews for that "Deck the Halls" movie? That's another one that I have to ask myself why they make movies like that and Serenity still doesn't have a sequel...

---------
Love keeps her in the air when she outta fall down, tells you she's hurting before she keels. Makes her a home.


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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 6:58 PM

TRISTAN


Hell's Kitten, you have the right idea! As someone said before, there are generally not that many ponders going on at once...but you got it. So, welcome to the Imponderables!

Emma, thank you! And I am very glad you have returned to us!

CMH, I wish I had time tonight to answer. Know that I will when I return. This is a good one!

Y'all take care, and I will see you in a few days!

______________________________________

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 9:15 PM

VERSEEXPLORER


Way to jump into the Imponderable thread, Hell's Kitten.

Quote:

ChrisMoorhead wrote:
How many people grew up recognizing virginity and chastity as virtues? I recently came to the understanding that part of the reason I disagree with so many people about sex is because as a child, I remember that chastity and virginity were associated with purity in my mind. I was amazed to find that so many of the friends I have, even very religious ones, were never of this mind. It's been almost like a culture shock to me.

Also, if you were ever of this mind, when and why did it change for you? Did it ever, or did you just decide that a particular person was worth sacrificing purity for?



Great questions, CMH. I was brought up with a religious background that taught that chastity and virginity were what was expected before marriage. It was not necessarily associated with purity of mind. It was acknowledged that some people would remain celibate in order to dedicate their lives to their faith, but if everyone did that, the human race would die out.

I truly believed that my first love was the "one." I had large amounts of alcohol that distorted my power of reasoning on the night of my 1st experience. I must admit that there was a strong pull from my curiosity to find out what it was all about. It seemed like the right thing because we were planning on spending the rest of our lives together. Well, oops, several months later we drifted apart. He wasn't the one.

Through the years I've learned more of other cultures, and I've found that the Christian sexual ethics are not found in all cultures. I no longer hold onto a puritan view. (Although I would recommend it for any young teen that might be reading this thread.)

I think I might have a glimpse of what you are talking about from a meditative perspective. When meditating, the mind needs to be still, and random thoughts can be distracting. Are you saying that sex thoughts and/or activities would be a distraction from keeping your mind pure?

I admire your goal of keeping a pure mind, but I don't see sex as a bad, evil thing. It can be a genuine experience that allows two people to communicate in a very beautiful intimate way. I have read that you are waiting for marriage, and I think that is very admirable. It's just not the way for everyone.


For all Imponderables - Happy Thanksgiving!





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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 10:56 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Been out of the word for a bit. Nice to see you here, Hell's Kitten! Looks like you and I are alike on more than a few levels. It's gonna be tons of fun to meet/battle you at D*C!
What did I miss? I'm just skimming here, but all I see is shopping. I'll shop without the intent of buying anything; just look around. I tend to end up buying something though, so I try not to do it too often. But it is fun, isn't it? I'm especially fond of the outdoor malls because they're so pretty and fun to hang around.
That's all I've got for now. I've been letting my chores go, so I best get back to those.


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Thursday, November 23, 2006 2:39 AM

JAMESTHEDARK


Chastity: CMH is making the common mistake of confusing virginity with purity. I'm a virgin, but I'm far from pure. Moreover, how can virginity be equated with purity, considering that it is a virtue that can literally be taken away from you (by non-sexual accident, or, worse, by rape). In such a case, you are no longer a virgin, despite your every intention to be.
And, by your assumption, you have had a virtue taken from you, despite the Roman philosophers' inferrence that virtue can only be relinquished, never stolen.

Virginity is the ultimate signal of sexual innocence, I will accede, but innocence takes many forms besides a membrane of skin in a sensitive area. To reference Firefly, Kaylee was in no way a virgin, but she was the most innocent character on that show. In contrast, River, despite being a virgin, was the least innocent (outside of Jayne...).

I'm all for the cultivation of virtue, but innocence isn't one I would pass on. The world is a harsh, cruel place. The only way to keep it from eating your ilk alive is to prepare them, and doing that will (not may; will) strip them of innocence.

My, but I do ramble, sometimes...

--------------
I ain't lookin' for help from on high. That's a damn long wait for a train don't come.

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.

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Thursday, November 23, 2006 2:52 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Very well put, James, some excellent points!
My opinion is that sex can be very pure. I don't like the 'sex is dirty and will make you impure. Save it for the one you love(marry)" mentality. The best way to even wrap my head around that is to think "Sex with love is pure" which I think it is. I've never had a more beautiful experience than making love, and would not consider it to be impure.
As for when I was a virgin... Well, I was not a pure or innocent soul. I think that with the turbulance of the teen years over, I am much more pure (calm and happy) now than I ever was then.


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Thursday, November 23, 2006 3:05 AM

VERSEEXPLORER


Words of Wisdom, James. You can ramble all that you want.




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Thursday, November 23, 2006 3:20 AM

ODDSBODSKINS


not quite awake enough to do any more then skim read things right now, i might go more detail at a later point, if i wake up enough 8-)

okay, points i saw were as follows: Shopping. i do love to shop xD i love to browse, to stroll, mostly i love finding things in odd little shops in odd little places, like the silver belt-buckle i found in an antique shop (and need to go back for as soon as i get a chance) or the shaped leather face mask i found in a market (it's a bit phoenix-ey, planning on wearing it for my work christmas fancy dress do thing) the hand-made brass kaleidoscope i got my uncle, i love finding little oddities like that ^^ but alot of the time when i shop, i do it with a definate aim in mind, you know, either 'i need a new pair of jeans for work/to look good in' 'it's freezing out, i need another warm top to go under a jacket' the ever practical 'i'm running out of underwear' and (my favorite) 'WHOO-HOO! first cold day of the year! time to buy myself a new three-quarter-length!' (i'm just bound by traditions ) so yep, i shop to browse, for pleasure, but i don't do it as a matter of course, more normally i shop with a specific aim (and i'm not so good at browsing shelves when i'm there, have been shopping with my mum and sister a bit reently, they can browse and stroll and wander, i go for what i came for, and leave again )

what else what else, sex/marriage maybe? think i made a flippant comment about this earlier, but perhaps a more considered response is more in the imponderables theme ^^ as far as marriage goes, i don't value it very highly, i suspect, in honesty, this has alot to do with my upbringing, it never mattered a great deal to my parents, who married purely because my grandparents didn't want me born a bastard (very casually too, went out one day, found two witnesses (think one was a collegue of my dads, the other my mums gay best friend) got married in a pair of jeans (unplanned) and then told their parents about it afterwards. my mum kept her name, my dad kept his and in spite of placing no value on the institution of marrige they're still together, 22 years later. so that's pretty much my take on it, it doesn't mean much to me either way, if i was with someone to whom it WAS important, and with whom i intended to spend the rest of my life, sure, id' get married, but it would be for them, rather then me (and i know this is probably hugely hypocritical and disrespectful to the institution, but hey, i've already said i don't much give a monkeys about said institution either way )
almost forgot, there was sex mentioned there (how could i forget SEX! i must be loosing my masculinity...) to my mind sex can be whatever people make of it, and whatever they're happy with, so lonbg as no-one involved in any given sexual act is under no illusions as to it's significance, or insignificance, then i don't see that anything wrong has occured. it can be a quick away, a recreational activity, an act of deepest love, devotion and intimacy, or you can not do it at all, whatever, as they say, tickles your fancy. For myself, i think i can view it either as recreation, or as deepest most meaningful, and i don't feel that having experienced both diminishes the value of either.

huuuuh, i know there was other stuff. killing, right yes. (another one i made a flippant comment about) As for whether i could kill another human being, i've no idea without trying, but i don't intend to try just to find out, if i learn that about myself before i die then i do, if i don't then i don't (and probably sleep better, given how i sleep anyway i think that's for the best). i've never had any qualms about shooting rats, rabbits, pheasant, and so on, don't think i'd hunt big game because i see no purpose to it, the points of the aforementioned was either food, or protecting the chucks, so senseless killing of wildlife wouldn't do it for me, but with a motive (so to speak). I suspect, that if push came to shove, i could kill another human being, but i don't think it's something i would ever do easily, even at risk of my own life i rather suspect it would still be a difficult decision (i learnt a bit about a few things since i was in school, and being voted 'most likely to become a hitman' seemed like, so really totally cool. i'm kinda ashamed of having been so pleased these days )

can't *think* of any other, but my heads pretty frazzled, need to go get on with the sausage, egg and black pudding devouring to make myself feel human, but before i go, a quick imponderable.

what relationship do you find between pleasure and pain? and in what innocuous things can you find pleasure? i ask because i managed to take a neat slice off the ball of my thumbs the other day, it bled very little and i wasn't seriously hurt, but it did expose a little flesh to the world, so to speak, and it became very sensitive and tender. contact with anything hurt like absolute buggery, but at the same time, was not entirely unpleasant. Just wondered whether this renders me a bit of a nutjob among our slightly-unbalanced ranks xD

Ah! What is not a dream by day
To him whose eyes are cast
On things around him with a ray
Turned back upon the past?

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Thursday, November 23, 2006 3:31 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


That's a beautiful story about your parents, Odds.

Pleasure and pain... I find certain 'painful' things (like being bitten) to be very nice, but they can definitely reach the point of just hurting. Spanking and the like never held much appeal. As for the sensitive cut skin thing, that I can't be sure of. I think it all depends on pain tolerance, because anything that's sensitive can deliver great pleasure or great pain, sometimes moving from one to the other. Interesting question! I need to think about this more...


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Thursday, November 23, 2006 3:45 AM

ODDSBODSKINS


well i can't say as spanking ever seemed terribly appealing to me either, i'm clearly more, uh, discerning, and subtle, in my taste's ^_~

(and if i want to just get slapped about, i'll go to work, that association kinda ruins any potential it might have as anything else )

Ah! What is not a dream by day
To him whose eyes are cast
On things around him with a ray
Turned back upon the past?

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Thursday, November 23, 2006 3:54 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


Ooh, good ponder!

Well, when I came of age my Dad gave me a Bible and a packet of condoms and told me to use both wisely. I think that pretty much sums up his attitude.

As for me, I've never seen sex as sinful. Not even when I was just getting to grips with what it was. Every time someone said it was dirty I'd sit there thinking "No it's not!" It was like being told that non-Catholics were going to hell. I knew that wasn't true. It just didn't make sense to me.

That being said, I was very cagey about having sex and didn't lose my virginity until waaay after everyone else I knew. That wasn't about being prudish though, I just didn't really trust anyone enough. Took me a long time to find the right person, but I'm very glad I waited.

Short answer, nope! Never saw sex as bad. Scary, complicated, magickal, lots of fun... but I don't see chastity as something special. Just another way of being. I put much greater stock in common sense.




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Thursday, November 23, 2006 4:12 AM

EMMARIGBY


I also find it interesting that virginity is associated with purity. I was a crazed nymphomaniac when I was a virgin (in everything but the actual deed), not being able to go 5 minutes without thinking about sex. I find the more often I have sex the less I need to obsess about it, leaving my brain free to persue more philosophical thoughts!

The pleaseure/ pain issue is an interesting one and one that I am frequently frustrated by because my body seems so changable. Something (like biting, pinching, slapping etc) that drives me wild one day will cause me to sqeak and run away the next. I really pity men, I am an unpredicatble creature and foreplay must be a constant trial!



___________________
Hissssssssss!

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Thursday, November 23, 2006 5:45 AM

MSG


CMH- excellent ponder! Um I'd say for me sex is a biological function of procreation ...ok I'm kidding, but I mostly think of it as a way to connect with somone ( and maybe get a really cute baby out of it...yes we're still trying and I'll let you all know as soon as I know something)I think sex without committment and love is not a good idea and can end up with both people suffering for it.

On a different note...for those who are U.S. Browncoats....Happy Thanksgiving!!!

"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort."- Albright



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