GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

what is up with battlestar galactica?

POSTED BY: STROKINGMYPETER
UPDATED: Thursday, April 10, 2008 23:14
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 15136
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Sunday, December 31, 2006 3:29 PM

STROKINGMYPETER


what is with so many people, particularly joss, being in love with battlestar galactica? i think it's freaking horrible. it sucks so much. the writing is awful, the acting wooden and lame, and the special effects suck. it's all around horrific.


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Sunday, December 31, 2006 5:22 PM

CALHOUN


BACK THE TRUCK UP!!

Maybe you should go watch your "Golden Girls" reruns.

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Sunday, December 31, 2006 5:59 PM

CHINDI


ah well, to each their own..

Chindi

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Sunday, December 31, 2006 6:01 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


I'm sure there are a few people who might think Firefly is horrible, and they would be wrong about that too. Just because something does not appeal to you does not automatically mean it is not good. Granted, there have been a few weak episodes, but right now it's the best SF show on the air.



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Sunday, December 31, 2006 6:11 PM

VERTEBREAKER


Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:
right now it's the best SF show on the air.




QFT. Battlestar is amazing. I really, really have a hard time believing someone could legitimately classify it as "horrible". It IS the best science-fiction show in a Firefly-less TV 'Verse.

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Sunday, December 31, 2006 6:13 PM

BLUEEYEDBRIGADIER


Now now...don't go dissing the SFX for BSG, you logflogger! It's done by the same people who did Firefly and Serenity's effects. At least the vehcile and space effects..

BEB

Literature has shown us some of humanity's greatest achievements; history, some of our greatest failures -- Alun Lewis

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Sunday, December 31, 2006 6:18 PM

BABYWITHTHEPOWER


I've only seen a handfull of episodes as my schedule hasn't allowed for much TV watching, but what I've seen is spectacular. The plots and sub-plots keep you involved and are intruiging.

The only BSG production that even remotely resembles your description is the mini-series. It was rather 2 dimentional.

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Sunday, December 31, 2006 6:24 PM

CMOTD


At least the acting in BSG isn't as bad as the acting In Babylon five.

Takes more than combat gear to make a man
Takes more than a license for a gun
Confront your enemies, avoid them when you can
A gentleman will walk but never run


-Sting, An Englishman in New York

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Sunday, December 31, 2006 6:27 PM

CMOTD


Does anyone else get the feeling that president Rosilin taught them in Elementry school.

Takes more than combat gear to make a man
Takes more than a license for a gun
Confront your enemies, avoid them when you can
A gentleman will walk but never run


-Sting, An Englishman in New York

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Sunday, December 31, 2006 6:28 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Perhaps the people in this thread could let me in on something. Why do you feed the trolls?

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Sunday, December 31, 2006 6:55 PM

LEADB


Keeps 'em from gnawing on your foot.

I just got the DVD for season one, and I'm pretty darn happy with BSG. About 1/4 way thru... thinking about ordering season 2.

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Sunday, December 31, 2006 7:06 PM

VERTEBREAKER


Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Why do you feed the trolls?



It's fun?

Don't know about you, but messing with trolls...well...twixts my nethers, so to speak.

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Sunday, December 31, 2006 10:25 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Just because someone states that they do not like a show does not mean they are a troll.....if he made these negative comments on a Battlestar message board then maybe troll might apply...but it does not apply here...this is a Firefly message board. Also, typically trolls post stuff to enrage people and then they usually attack their attackers....he has not done that, at least so far.

For what it's worth I happen to agree with him. Many of you sound like you watch Battlestar because there's little else new to watch, and that gives you justification to bash his opinions....most un-shiny!

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Sunday, December 31, 2006 10:39 PM

BABYWITHTHEPOWER


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
For what it's worth I happen to agree with him. Many of you sound like you watch Battlestar because there's little else new to watch, and that gives you justification to bash his opinions....most un-shiny!


Actually, I don't read a single post on here that implies that people only watch it because it's all that's on. Most of the one's I have read state very clearly that people believe it's the best sci-fi series on, so save your judgements and get off your high horse. And no one bashed him or his opinions (except maybe CALHOUN. and what BLUEEYEDBRIGADIER said was a play on his screen name), they simply disagreed, which is completely in their capacity to do, as STROKINGMYPETER had posed a question they felt like answering.



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Monday, January 1, 2007 12:01 AM

FEDEXXX


I like BSG, but I'm not in love with it. My taste is for more original and different shows, BSG is a classic main-stream!

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Monday, January 1, 2007 4:22 AM

GRIZWALD


I just love it, totally without reservation.

But as I see everything since Firefly, I see it as about 3 notches down from Firefly... Everything is in relation to Firefly. Heroes? About 5 notches below Firefly. And I still love Heroes, too. Firefly is waaaaay up there.

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Monday, January 1, 2007 6:51 AM

GWEK


Gotta say, I think BSG is good, but I don't agree with the folks who think it's amazing. The overall story is cool, but--with a few exceptions like Baltar and Tigh--I think the cast is pretty wooden and boring (this is less about the actors and more about the writing). Also, as a fan of shows like Firefly and Stargate, it almost physically hurts how unrelentingly humorless BSG is.

Good show? Yep. Best sci fi on TV? Nah. I'd rate Heroes, Doctor Who, and Supernatural higher.

But to each his own.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Monday, January 1, 2007 8:52 AM

ZISKER


Quote:

Originally posted by fedexxx:
BSG is a classic main-stream!



Bingo - they're pretty open about it too. I keep reading interviews where they state that their target audience is the one watching House or Desperate Housewives or those main-stream shows. That's why Sci Fi has kept the show around - and, to be fair, some friends who wouldn't touch SF with a ten foot pole like BSG because it's a space opera.

I like BSG because of the Roslin-Adama dynamic. I like the characters and I'm interested to see what will happen between them. I used to like the Baltar-Number Six relationship when she was inside his head, but that's been shot to hell for me since Season 3 began.

Nonetheless, I eagerly await 21 Jan. Although this isn't the kind of SF that I'm usually crazy about, it's a good enough show to spend time watching.

If you can't do something smart, do something right.

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Monday, January 1, 2007 9:18 AM

DERANGEDMILK


I think its only mainstream in the sense that they aren't targeting a science fiction audience exclusively. They show focuses on issues that someone who watches mainstream TV would be interested in. Political, social, relationship issues, basic moral dilemas. But these issues all ride on incredibly well written and produced drama. Unlike Star Trek (huge Trekkie btw so don't think I'm knocking it) it doesn't get wrapped up in a lot of the science behind the science and fiction nor does it tackle very abstract ethical issues.

Anyway, glad to see so many defending BSG on this thread. IMO, best show on TV. PERIOD. Not best scifi show, best show. I like heroes but it in my eyes it isn't quite on par. If I had to call a second it'd probably be The Office although I think the new Studio 60 has a lot of potential.
-e

"Storms getting worse."
"We'll pass through it soon enough."

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Monday, January 1, 2007 9:31 AM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Just because someone states that they do not like a show does not mean they are a troll.....if he made these negative comments on a Battlestar message board then maybe troll might apply...but it does not apply here...this is a Firefly message board.




Actually it DOES apply. Or haven't you noticed that there is an "Other Science Fiction Series" forum here? Haven't you noticed that there are many many discussion about other Sci-Fi series (included BSG) for some time now? For that matter, almost everything tends to end up in general discussions for some reason.

If (s)he wasn't a troll, then (s)he would've posted reasons for why they believe that way.

http://catb.org/jargon/html/T/troll.html

This thread was clearly created to "stir the s**t." How can the original poster's post be interpreted any other way? Especially with the name "strokingmypeter".


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Also, typically trolls post stuff to enrage people and then they usually attack their attackers....he has not done that, at least so far.




Although it is true that the typical troll in the past continues to attack people that reply, here and recently on other forums that I participate in, the troll posts one comment and then goes away to watch the mess that (s)he creates.

Please note that the definition given about does NOT require the troll to produce follow-up posts.


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

For what it's worth I happen to agree with him. Many of you sound like you watch Battlestar because there's little else new to watch, and that gives you justification to bash his opinions....most un-shiny!




And like the OP, you fail to give any reasons what-so-ever.

For that matter, what gives you the right to bash us for our opinions? Most un-shiny yourself, or in other words, I'm calling you a hypocrite.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Tuesday, January 2, 2007 1:24 AM

PIRATECAT


Ah I found a friend lets go eat some chicken wings together. BSG was only good when Starbuck had balls.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

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Tuesday, January 2, 2007 2:03 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


The show was once very good, it once was top rated but now the ratings have fallen like a rock. Yet still Univseral have been a lot more loyal to BSG than Faux folk were ever with Firefly.


RDM is a very talented writer and the show has some wonderful director like David Eick. Battlestar Galactica was a great show - If you are watching any of the garbage that is Season-3, then it is likley you are watching a horrible re-imagined version of a re-imaged BSG ( which was once a top show). Go back and watch the mini ( the pilot movie ) or download Season 1 to see what once was a great show. Starbuck wasn't so messed up back then, sure she was 'fraked-up' but at least as a pilot she got to do great things once in a while. Now her character is just a Slutbuck, who goes around getting her buddies killed and slacks on the job. The actress Katee has had some issues over the summer about her character, this 'issue' was more than just the hair and more about what kind of road Kara would go down, a lot of folk weren't sure what see was on about back then but now many understand what she was saying.

The show has started to 'jump the shark' - the Re-imagined of the Re-imaged include : Admiral Adama who lost his cojones, Roslin's cure by Cylon juice, Anders the idiot who married a tramp, Dee the victim who will next be seen in torn raggy clothes scrubbing the Decks of Galactica while her prince goes to the prom, Kara StarDrunk Thrace, Cylons that are no longer bad and scary but instead take part in menage à trois threesomes, Colonial suicide bombers, Lee Adama the punchbag (aka JarJar Adama), Helo the hippie, Tigh the pirate who doesn't have a peg-leg.

Just check the pics on the websites - Yes, it's jumped the shark tank like Fonzie.








Even the die-hard BSG fans ain't happy about the show's direction in the third season.

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Tuesday, January 2, 2007 2:09 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Season 1 and 2 kicked ass.

Season 3... meh

Season 3.5... hoping for better.

strokingmypeter...... UberPUD. We should all get together and chip in to get him a glass stomach so he doesn't bump into everything walkin around with his head stuck so far up his ass.

I shit on the floor and most people would call it shit... hell, even I'll call it shit, but you can bet your ass there'll be flys and bacteria all over that shit pretty damn quick. Go watch your Star Wars and play with your legos and let the adults watch Battlestar. Maybe you'll get it when you're older.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Tuesday, January 2, 2007 2:29 AM

PIRATECAT


Jayneztown what are you trying to do kill me. I just choked on a chicken bone. I am in to the os cheese factory cause its good. When I watch the new BSG all I want to do is jump in the shower. I feel dirty. If they jump into earth system I say we turn the lights out come on. Apollo, Starbuck, and Boomer were all good shipmates. Adama and Tye were man's man with leadership. A sense of family ties with blue sqd, gold sqd, red sqn. on and on. I feel like our officiers are Jackasses. It needs cleaning up. Ya know the human race is on the line.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

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Tuesday, January 2, 2007 2:29 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Me personally, I have liked BSG. The first two seasons were good, the first part of this season was so-so for me. Some weak episodes, but for the most part it has been good so far. Looking forward to the second half of the season.

I do not watch it because it is the only thing on. I would turn the television off and read a book before I would watch bad tv, even bad sci fi.

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Wednesday, January 3, 2007 6:00 AM

KEYOKE


To be honest, so far for me the weakest episodes were in Season 2.

Sure, the characters have all become more and more "fracked up" but thats only to be expected with what they've been through?

What im seeing is a more human portrayal of a situation, rahter than the standard Sci-Fi heroes who come out of such tramatic situations without the slightest hint that they've been affected, what we're seeing is a crew becoming more and more unstable and unable to function because they're not handling the extremes that they're going through.

I'll admit that the acting has gotten a bit wooden here and there, but you really can't fault the writing because your heroes are showing some humanity once. For me, that very quality is what I liked about Firefly. The fact that the characters were human, not some unbeatable heroes. Things can get to them, and i've enjoyed watching Starbucks downfall as she struggles to cope with her emotions and the termoil she's in.

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Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:28 PM

JAYNEZTOWN


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:


I do not watch it because it is the only thing on. I would turn the television off and read a book before I would watch bad tv, even bad sci fi.



It's going off the air for a while as the Superbowl takes over

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Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:46 PM

DAYVE


does anyone remember the original....? i thought that was a pretty lame piece of work - and i suppose that's jaded my view of the new BSG a bit - i tried to watch it - honestly - i can't say i'm a fan - as far as the 'best sci-fi on tv'.... that's not saying much, as there is very little of that genre on the air these days...

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Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:46 PM

OPERATIVE1985


Quote:

Originally posted by strokingmypeter:
what is with so many people, particularly joss, being in love with battlestar galactica? i think it's freaking horrible. it sucks so much. the writing is awful, the acting wooden and lame, and the special effects suck. it's all around horrific.




WOW. Someone isnt able to form actual opinions!


BSG is a great show. Although lately i think the plot is getting a little convoluted. But you made no good points and this was a worthless rant.

"I already know you will not see reason" - The Operative
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Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:32 PM

IREMIST


I think I oughta change my login to NO POLITICS!
I 'm just here to have fun and to help the cause(in my own special way).
that bein said, I don't particularly like BSG, but I do have to give props for being visually interesting, at times.
I also find the "Poster" (I refuse to use his vulgar login name) to be overly blunt and crass and would like to say "you're bringin' us down, Man!"

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Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:01 AM

STORYMARK


I love BSG. Not only do I think it's the best scifi on TV right now, but I think it's the best series on, period.

I have really enjoyed how they delve more and more into reflecting current events. Calling it just a "Space Opera" is a disservice. BSG has the old-school sci-fi I've been craving in a series for years.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, June 20, 2007 12:11 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


Totally Frakked: Will We Ever Get A "Battlestar Galactica" Movie?
http://blog.meevee.com/my_weblog/2007/06/totally_frakked_6.html

Battlestar Galactica ends
http://www.generationq.net/articles/Battlestar-Galactica-ends-00001.ht
ml

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Wednesday, June 20, 2007 1:55 AM

PARTICIPANT


Quote:

Originally posted by strokingmypeter:
what is with so many people, particularly joss, being in love with battlestar galactica?




I hate to break this to you guys but Joss is human, he isn't some kind of demi-god or magical wizard who has answers to everything.

Firefly is the best and most loved tv show

but Joss is human, he makes mistakes

His work on Alien:Resurrection was bellow par when compared to the great work of Cameron and Scott, I didn't care for the boring series Roseanne and his stuff on Atlantis:The Lost Empire was kind of average.

Many people not just Joss had tipped the remake of BSG to become one best tv shows, but it de-evolved into a poor series with a dark soap opera and forced political agendas and remember how we were all forced to endure how the Cylons have a plan every single episode. That is what is is up with battlestar galactica.

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Wednesday, June 20, 2007 2:02 AM

KHYRON


Quote:

Originally posted by participant:
but Joss is human, he makes mistakes

His work on Alien:Resurrection was bellow par when compared to the great work of Cameron and Scott, I didn't care for the boring series Roseanne and his stuff on Atlantis:The Lost Empire was kind of average.

OT, but apart from Firefly, I'm not at all a Joss fan, in fact I find him rather pretentious and annoying. To me, his opinion on other shows counts for very little. Having said that, BSG is pretty good overall. But having said that, I enjoy Lost and Heroes more (Lost because of the excellent second half to the third season).



Questions are a burden to others. Answers are prison for oneself.

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Wednesday, June 20, 2007 8:10 AM

REAVERMAN


Battlestar Galactica WAS the best show on TV, right up until that boxing episode early in season 3. After that it all went downhill. It just keeps getting more and more ridiculous. It's (in my humble opinion) straying too far into the realm of mysticism, which makes it more and more unbelievable by the episode.

And the filler episodes they've put out are just terrible. The one where there's a disease going around the ship, and one of the doctors is killing Sagittarons, for example. The most interesting parts of that episode were when they would show a brief view of the outside of the ship after the commercial breaks. And I know some of you are going to say that that is to show that Humanity is it's own worst enemy. But they've already shown that in every episode since the Pegasus showed up. We get the frakking point!

But as for the acting, I thought it was alright. The only wooden acting I saw was from Jamie Bamber, and he's been like that through the whole series, so I'm used to it.

One problem I've had with the series from the start, though, is the utter lack of humor. Now, I understand that they have lost almost everything they ever cared about, and they're constantly on the run, but the same can be said of Mal. And Mal had a healthy sense of humor. BSG, while well written (for the most part), is soul-crushingly dark, which makes it more and more difficult to watch without wanting to cut yourself as it goes.

Overall, it's a decent series, and was, for a while, a welcome change from the typical sci-fi utopian vision of the future, but has simply run out of really good plotlines.

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To the god you say is kind.
I know what's right, and it is time,
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We were not made to bend like reed,
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Wednesday, June 20, 2007 11:15 AM

STARTROOP


Hmmmmm .... I have bought Seasons I and II and enjoyed them. They didn't "transport" me they way Firefly and Serenity. By that I mean, all I thought while watching BSG is "Good TV" not "Holy Cow! How do I get more!". I am hearing the vibe that the next CD isn't worth my hard earned dollars? (I am back in grad school again an so watching network TV is NOT an option)

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Wednesday, June 20, 2007 11:33 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
I love BSG. Not only do I think it's the best scifi on TV right now, but I think it's the best series on, period.


Dude, have you seen Rescue Me? I'd say it's better than BSG. By a little, anyway.

Learyfan Chrisisall

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Wednesday, June 20, 2007 1:16 PM

CRUITHNE3753


Quote:

Originally posted by Reaverman:
One problem I've had with the series from the start, though, is the utter lack of humor.



Actuall, there is a little, just not much (at least in the first season, that's all I've seen). The scene where Baltar is furtively talking with Gaeta in the toilets did raise a chortle, especially with the corny "no more Mr nice Gaius!" line. Also the bit where Number Six threatened Baltar with "don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry!"... depends if you know the reference.

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Wednesday, June 20, 2007 1:31 PM

KHYRON


I thought the "paper shortage" quip was hilarious.



Questions are a burden to others. Answers are prison for oneself.

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Monday, July 9, 2007 4:21 PM

PARTICIPANT


Quote:

Originally posted by Dayve:
does anyone remember the original....? i thought that was a pretty lame piece of work - and i suppose that's jaded my view of the new BSG a bit - i tried to watch it - honestly - i can't say i'm a fan - as far as the 'best sci-fi on tv'.... that's not saying much, as there is very little of that genre on the air these days...



4400 and Heroes are better than BSG, the series jumped the shark with iraqtica, the soap and the whole final five thing

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Monday, July 9, 2007 5:12 PM

CALHOUN


Quote:

chrisisall wrote:
Wednesday, June 20, 2007 11:33
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Storymark:
I love BSG. Not only do I think it's the best scifi on TV right now, but I think it's the best series on, period.


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Dude, have you seen Rescue Me? I'd say it's better than BSG. By a little, anyway.

Learyfan Chrisisall




Surely you jest?


Former Chrisisall fan Calhoun

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Monday, July 9, 2007 8:00 PM

SINGATE


The last few episodes leading up to and including the finale redeemed what had been a fairly unremarkable season. Going to agree with Chris on this one, Rescue Me is the better show at present. As another poster suggested BSG isn't even the best sci-fi on TV after this past season.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Monday, July 9, 2007 8:04 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by strokingmypeter:
what is with so many people, particularly joss, being in love with battlestar galactica? i think it's freaking horrible. it sucks so much. the writing is awful, the acting wooden and lame, and the special effects suck. it's all around horrific.




What? Don't make me break out my whip...

-River

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Tuesday, July 10, 2007 2:41 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Calhoun:


Surely you jest?



I'm not jesting.

And don't call me Shirley Chrisisall

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Tuesday, July 10, 2007 2:49 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by singate:
As another poster suggested BSG isn't even the best sci-fi on TV after this past season.


The set-up on BSG was provocative, the execution and visuals are superb, the music and actors are peerless, but ... they have no plan.
I get the definite sense that Edward James Olmos was unhappy with the direction (or lack thereof), and MADE them declare the 4th season to be the last, in hopes of getting the writers back on track.
A bold move on his part, if true.

Toaster Chrisisall

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Tuesday, July 10, 2007 3:36 AM

DEATHISMYGIFT


I'm new to Battlestar Galactica. My CSTS weekend was more than amazing. I got to be Jane Espenson's assistant the entire weekend and I promised her I would start watching Battlestar. Seventeen days later I have gone through Seasons 1, 2.0, and 2.5. I am anxiously awaiting the release of season three so I can tune in for season four. Le sigh, I can't believe I've waiting this long to watch it AND it took someone from the writing staff to convince me! hahaha, But I do not regret committing to it. It's made me appreciate Firefly all the more. And the effects? They are BEAUTIFUL!

For the record, I want to have Starbucks babies.

"it's always complicated and at some point someone has to draw the line and that is always going to be me. you get down on me for cutting myself off but in the end the slayer is always cut off. there's no mystical guide book, no all knowing council, human rules don't apply. there's only me....i am the law" -Buffy the Vampire Slayer

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Tuesday, July 10, 2007 3:40 AM

DEATHISMYGIFT


Quote:

I get the definite sense that Edward James Olmos was unhappy with the direction (or lack thereof), and MADE them declare the 4th season to be the last, in hopes of getting the writers back on track.
A bold move on his part, if true.



I know how mean this is going to sound BUT, I find it hard to look at Olmos.

"it's always complicated and at some point someone has to draw the line and that is always going to be me. you get down on me for cutting myself off but in the end the slayer is always cut off. there's no mystical guide book, no all knowing council, human rules don't apply. there's only me....i am the law" -Buffy the Vampire Slayer

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Tuesday, July 10, 2007 5:30 AM

MONKEYTAIL


You cannot say a show has "jumped the shark" until it can be viewed from the very first episode (in this case the mini-series) to the very last episode. Until you have seen it in it's entirety, you cannot possibly know how plots and themes used within the show will turn out.

Also, it's a shame that so many Browncoats have turned into self-important jerks. I've watched all of Whedon's shows from their beginnings, and read a great deal of his writing, but I still enjoy other works. All of you out there that put down other shows/movies/etc. and the fans of those projects should feel ashamed of yourselves. Just because it isn't something you enjoy or choose to watch, doesn't mean it isn't any good.

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Tuesday, July 10, 2007 7:10 AM

SICKDUDE


Quote:

Originally posted by monkeytail:
Also, it's a shame that so many Browncoats have turned into self-important jerks.


Hey, I resent that!

"I am your father, Luke. Give in to the Dark Side, you nob!" - Doug McKenzie

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Wednesday, July 11, 2007 8:58 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Grizwald:

But as I see everything since Firefly, I see it as about 3 notches down from Firefly... Everything is in relation to Firefly. Heroes? About 5 notches below Firefly. And I still love Heroes, too. Firefly is waaaaay up there.



This here's exactly the sorta thing I wanted to say. So, yeah, what Grizwald said. :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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