GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Summer Glau's new show: Sarah Connor Chronicles

POSTED BY: GAPSULE
UPDATED: Sunday, April 20, 2008 02:50
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 32002
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Wednesday, February 6, 2008 7:58 PM

GANDOM


This show has already grown on me, I liked the premier episode but thought the second was lacking and it is just been picking up steam from the third on.

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Thursday, February 7, 2008 4:57 AM

WINDSTRUCK


I like the fourth episode. I thought it was funny to be trapped inside that bunker with a terminator. I just hated the fact that I have to wait 2 weeks to see it.


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Thursday, February 7, 2008 6:16 AM

MUGGI


Quote:

Originally posted by yinyang:


Quote:

Originally posted by Muggi:
I'm also waiting for an explanation as to why Summer can be flirty and cool the first episode, and completely high-school socially inept now..



My mom floated a theory on that during the last episode. Cameron talks about the Terminators being programmed to carry out missions. Well, Cameron's first mission was probably to find John. Then, the second mission could have been something like "get close to him," which is what the flirting and acting normal were for. And, now, with that mission complete, the next mission is help John.

Maybe the future John forgot to give her orders to blend in after she found (the past) him? Or, maybe it wasn't important - that as long as Cameron doesn't draw too much attention to herself (and she hasn't yet), then her oddities are acceptable, given that she doesn't interact a whole lot with anyone beside John and Sarah anyway. And, it also frees Cameron to be herself more, instead of having to switch back and forth between personalities for an indeterminately long period of time. Maybe the future John thought that would be helpful, and that has something to do with her being a new sort of Terminator.

Or, maybe she has free will and doesn't have to stick rigidly to her mission (which is what it sort of seems like), and she doesn't consider blending in a priority.



That's possible, but honestly IMO that's a little far-fetched. Given how crappy the writing has been at certain times on the show so far, I'm much more inclined to think the writers were just sloppy.

I'm going to keep watching, I'm enjoying the show, but it's not a gem by any stretch of the word.

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Thursday, February 7, 2008 6:55 AM

CARLCAMPER


Hey Windstruck! Nice to see a Pinoy (person from the Philippines) Browncoat! I see Angel Locsin in your banner, hehe.. Mabuhay ka!

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Thursday, February 7, 2008 12:02 PM

MRMGRAPHICS


+
Quote:

Originally posted by Muggi:
Quote:

Originally posted by yinyang:


Quote:

Originally posted by Muggi:
I'm also waiting for an explanation as to why Summer can be flirty and cool the first episode, and completely high-school socially inept now..



My mom floated a theory on that during the last episode. Cameron talks about the Terminators being programmed to carry out missions. Well, Cameron's first mission was probably to find John. Then, the second mission could have been something like "get close to him," which is what the flirting and acting normal were for. And, now, with that mission complete, the next mission is help John.

Maybe the future John forgot to give her orders to blend in after she found (the past) him? Or, maybe it wasn't important - that as long as Cameron doesn't draw too much attention to herself (and she hasn't yet), then her oddities are acceptable, given that she doesn't interact a whole lot with anyone beside John and Sarah anyway. And, it also frees Cameron to be herself more, instead of having to switch back and forth between personalities for an indeterminately long period of time. Maybe the future John thought that would be helpful, and that has something to do with her being a new sort of Terminator.

Or, maybe she has free will and doesn't have to stick rigidly to her mission (which is what it sort of seems like), and she doesn't consider blending in a priority.



That's possible, but honestly IMO that's a little far-fetched. Given how crappy the writing has been at certain times on the show so far, I'm much more inclined to think the writers were just sloppy.

I'm going to keep watching, I'm enjoying the show, but it's not a gem by any stretch of the word.


I'm of the sloppy writing opinion as well, which is a shame, because I do want to like this show. (Unlike many here, I saw T:TSCC first, and found Firefly via looking up info on Summer Glau.)

What ticks me off is how freakin' simple it would be for a bit of dialog to fix this problem and end all of these questions. Just a simple exchange at high school, where John is understandably frustrated with Cameron's inability to blend in:

JOHN: You were so normal when we met. Why can't you be normal now?

CAMERON: That was 1999. This is 2007. Human social dynamics change. Speech patterns change. I had eight months to study the way humans interact in 1999. Eight months to program a script that would enable me to get close to you when we met. Now I have only variables waiting for more data.

...or some such thing.

Summer Glau is playing a convincing Cameron. Hopefully the writers will give her appropriately convincing material, so those watching the show don't have to keep coming up with excuses and explanations for things.

That's something you just don't see on Firefly boards....

mrmgraphics
(website under serious reconstruction, if not life-saving surgery)

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Thursday, February 7, 2008 4:12 PM

WINDSTRUCK


I thought about the crappy writing again... 'Reconstructive surgery' was super crappy. They're stretching it too much. Let's say the doctor is incredibly BRAVE, 5-6 hours of surgery, and he wouldn't even consider running? He may not go far, he knows that too, but he can always try other things to get out of there and run. Why is it that almost every doctor in this show is really ..... uhm stupid? and then they get killed?

Cromartie plot is just too dragging. Now, he's an actor.. more drag.

Anyway, I'm still looking forward to episode six when Summer does ballet. (rumor)

Is it possible for Joss to direct or write an episode of TSCC? He's back on FOX now right?

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Thursday, February 7, 2008 5:01 PM

MRMGRAPHICS


+

The worst part of the writing, so far, isn't so much the plastic surgery as it is the introduction of elements to the mythology at key plot points.

Case in point: Stand-by mode with a 15-second reboot time.

I've got no problem with adding stand-by mode to the mythology, per se. What I do have a problem with is adding stand-by mode to the mythology at the very same time John needs stand-by mode to get himself out of the bunker.

It's just too deus ex machina -- a sudden revelation that saves the day, rather than John (or Sarah or Cameron) saving the day via previously-known variables.

Compare that to the magician's sleight-of-hand Joss Whedon used with River Tam's development. Now, it would have been downright silly, in BDM, after Simon got shot, if River suddenly charged into a room full of Reavers (and lived), if all we knew about her was what we saw when she emerged from the cryo-crate in the Firefly pilot. Instead, JW defly added his own "features" to River (to use "stand-by" mode terminology), piece-by-piece, in the cleverest of ways.

In Firefly, the tension between Jayne and the Tams was well-established when River suddenly slashes him with a butcher's knife. Also well-established was that River was prone to erratic mood swings. So the scene feels natural, but along the way we are learning that:

-- she's unstable
-- she can be violent
-- she's good with knives

And we alrady know River was the subject of Alliance brain experiments. Now flash forward to War Stories. It begins with River in one of her rare happy moments, playing with Kaylee. Nothig about the scene seems unnatural: River has shown bits of happiness before, and Kaylee is everyone's friend. Furthermore, when a few scenes later River has thrown up, it seems like she is regressing again, and that her playing with Kaylee really serves to show how rapidly her mental state can deteriorate from happiness to depression.

Then Kaylee is pinned down by three gunmen, terrified, and unable to hold onto her own gun. River grabs the gun and kills the three gunmen in a blink. With her eyes closed. And the sheer genius of Firefly and River's story is that River's horrifically deadly skills with a gun, in that scene, is far more believable than stand-by mode in T:TSCC. Surprising, yes -- in the scene, Kaylee is clearly just as terrified of River as she is grateful -- but believable, too. We already knew:

-- she's unstable
-- she can be violent
-- she can use weapons (butcher's knife)
-- she's Kaylee's friend

and, of course:

-- she's a genius of remarkable mental skill

So the scene flows from our previous knowledge. It's not like River just popped out of the cryo-crate and became Annie Oakley. It's no deus ex machina. It's believable, and driven by River's character. NOT by the plot (the need to save Kaylee).

Now move onto the masterpiece that is OiS. When River -- her mania getting worse -- is holding onto the gun, Kaylee is terrified. (The script reads that Kaylee looks "sh*t-scared" -- and it comes across quite clearly.). So what happened in War Stories didn't just appear out of no where and disappear back to nowhere; it comes back, Kaylee remembers it all too well, and it's then explicitely discussed by Kaylee and the crew. By then, they are also discussing River's apparent psychic abilities (shown in many an episode), and conclude that the Alliance may have been training her to be an assassin. (Perfectly reasonable conclusions, at a perfectly reasonable time.) While this is going on, River listens in from one deck below, gracefully perched, straddled and barefoot, on deck railings. She listens in and we are so intent on what she is feeling, our hearts going out to her, that we miss the obvious: She is also capable of extreme physical grace and agility. (She stands straddled on those railing, unmoving, as easily as one would stand on a deck.) We come away from this with even greater knowledge of River:

-- she's unstable
-- she can be violent
-- she can use weapons (butcher's knife)
-- she's Kaylee's friend
-- she's a genius
-- she's psychic
-- she's deadly with firemans (preternaturally so)
-- she possesses incredible physical grace and agility

Flash forward to BDM, in the Maidenhead. In addition to the above, we also know :

-- the Alliance is looking for her
-- the Alliance experimented with her brain

So when she is triggered and beats the living crap out of everyone in the room, it comes as no surprise, it flows naturally. So now we know:

-- she's unstable
-- she can be violent
-- she can use weapons (butcher's knife)
-- she's Kaylee's friend
-- she's psychic
-- she's deadly with firemans (preternaturally so)
-- she possesses incredible physical grace and agility
-- she is without doubt a trained assassin
-- she has deadly martial arts skills

And now we get to the climactic Reaver battle, where we must first add one final "feature" to the above list, one that is so well-established it could go without saying:

-- she loves her brother Simon

So when he gets shot, and needs his med-bag, and said med-bag is in a room full of Reavers, her actions flow naturally from everything we've learned about her. (Remember that Kaylee, too, desperately needed medical supplies.) All the physical grace, all the deadly skill, all the ability to take on vast numbers while unarmed, and -- above all -- all the motivation (Simon) is so clear and well laid-out that the audience has no choice -- in the moments before she says "My turn" -- but to say, "Come on, River! Go! Go!"

And when she does, it is equally impossible to say, "Well, I just don't buy that."

River didn't just become deadly at the moment Simon needed her to. She'd always been deadly, and we slowly watched that unfold, often without even knowing it.

Conversely, it seems Terminators just got stand-by mode because that would be the only way for John's sorry ass to get out of the bunker.



The Connors are LIVING with a freakin' Terminator, for God's sake! Have Cameron go into stand-by mode for a bit, preferably a few episodes before that "feature" is the one that saves John Connor from being Terminated, and THEN we can at least find it a bit easier to swallow!

Geez, Fox. You already wrecked one of Summer Glau's shows. Going for two out of two here?

mrmgraphics
(website under serious reconstruction, if not life-saving surgery)

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Thursday, February 7, 2008 6:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Ahem...
There is a writer's strike.
They may have been rushing to get these episodes shot before the writer's ended the run. Rewrites of badly meshed script would have heavily tasked and hampered the work, of each episode plus the rest not in the can.

So the question really is: should they have continued to create these episodes, albeit possibly flawed, or just waited til after the strike was over? Of course, look at your alternatives on network TV.
My vote is for TTSCC.

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Thursday, February 7, 2008 7:15 PM

MRMGRAPHICS


+
Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Ahem...
There is a writer's strike.
They may have been rushing to get these episodes shot before the writer's ended the run. Rewrites of badly meshed script would have heavily tasked and hampered the work, of each episode plus the rest not in the can.

So the question really is: should they have continued to create these episodes, albeit possibly flawed, or just waited til after the strike was over? Of course, look at your alternatives on network TV.
My vote is for TTSCC.


Honestly, I am watching and enjoying T:TSCC. My point is I would like to continue to do so.

See, I had a bad experience once, many years ago, with a TV show that should have been good. Interesting premise, could have had fascinating character development, and -- ironically -- it featured an artificially-intelligent robot of sorts. But the robot wasn't Summer Glau, it was a 1982 Pontiac Trans Am; the show, (the original) Knight Rider.

What could have been a fascinating blend of sci fi, action, and character became, in essence, Popular Mechanics. Every problem in every episode was solved simply by installing some new feature on KITT, with each new feature requiring even further suspension of disbelief than the one before.

It was awful, awful writing, and it made me mad because I really wanted to enjoy that show.

Now please, don't think I'm comparing T:TSCC to Knight Rider. I'm not. There's no comparison. NONE. The writing on T:TSCC is a gazillion times greater, and the acting, even more so. But I find myself already falling into "Knight Rider mode" -- making excuses for a show I want to like.

On top of that, as mentioned in my posts, I simultaneously discovered Firefly/Serenity along with T:TSCC, and Firefly/Serenity simply raised the bar (very very high) for how I view sci fi writing (or indeed, any writing).

I am tuning into T:TSCC every week, and looking forward to more. That's why I wrote what I did. I'm hoping we don't find ourselves making too many excuses or working out too many details on the show, when a truly well-written show (Firefly) makes sure all questions and details are worked out before the show airs.

And no, don't use the writer's strike for an excuse. Firefly's "The Train Job" was written in two days; the entire writing and production was under a constant cloud of fear of cancellation. The difference is simply working out the details, and seeing arcs, and planning accordingly.

Otherwise, T:TSCC is going to become "what new feature in a Terminator that we knew absolutely nothing about before will be the key to the plot in this week's episode?" And that's the last thing I want to see. Because, again, I want to enjoy this show, I loved T2 (consider it a masterpiece), and was so taken by Cameron's portrayal on T:TSCC that I wanted to find out who the heck played her, and thus ended up here!

mrmgraphics
(website under serious reconstruction, if not life-saving surgery)

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Thursday, February 7, 2008 9:52 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


You realize of course, the Trans Am died in 2002, same year as Firefly?

And my Trans Am based Firehawk is stock, no gadgets.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/490757

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Friday, February 8, 2008 2:47 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


I don't think you can blame any of the show's shortcomings on the writer's strike, since they had originally intended it to begin last fall, but later delayed it to mid-season. Why they only had time to do nine episodes I don't know. There have been some mistakes, but overall I think the show is okay, just not great. If nothing else, having Summer on the show has brought some people around to watching Firefly, I'd say that's a good thing.




wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Monday, February 11, 2008 10:43 AM

ZEEK


Again with episode 4 they played the "is that a terminator or not" game with us. The actor is being interrogated by the police and all his answers are stilted and potentially terminatorlike. Then the technician can't find a vein "oh no!". Oh wait it's just a human and he bursts out in human emotion right then calling them fascists. The problem I have with this type of stuff is that they force someone out of character just to build suspense.

Not only that but then later we see the actual terminator pretending to be the actor and is more human than the actual human was when the writers were trying to fool us. Stop playing stupid little games with the audience.

And how many dang terminators are there in 2007? This is what our third one in four shows? Why should we car at all about cromartie if they can just send back a gazillion terminators?

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Monday, February 11, 2008 10:52 AM

CRUITHNE3753


Starts this side of the Pond 21st Feb on Virgin One

(Carefully trying not to see any spoilers...)

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Monday, February 11, 2008 11:05 AM

HIXIE129


I love Summer, but the show sucks...

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Monday, February 11, 2008 3:50 PM

DARKJESTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Hixie129:
I love Summer, but the show sucks...




I think "sucks" is a bit strong personally. There are some things about the show that bug me - most of which have been mentioned here, but I'll keep watching. It's Summer, and it's SciFi in prime-time. Maybe we've been spoiled by Firefly (and Battlestar!) into having the bar set too high. I'm hoping the writing and continuity will improve, and I'll keep watching until it does.

MAL "You only gotta scare him."
JAYNE "Pain is scary..."

http://www.fireflytalk.com - Big Damn Podcast

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Monday, February 11, 2008 3:54 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


I'll continue to watch as long as it's on the air, but I don't think the chances are good that we will get more than the nine episodes already filmed. The writers are going to have to turn it up a notch and give us something to get excited about for me to care very much either way. The acting has been poor overall, and unfortunately I have to include Summer in that a little, but it's the writer's fault, imo.



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Monday, February 11, 2008 4:04 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:

Again with episode 4 they played the "is that a terminator or not" game with us. The actor is being interrogated by the police and all his answers are stilted and potentially terminatorlike. Then the technician can't find a vein "oh no!". Oh wait it's just a human and he bursts out in human emotion right then calling them fascists.


Not to mention that you could clearly see MANY veins on his arm! It's getting very near the point that, Summer despite, I may need to stop watching the show. Or rather, I should say, I should perhaps stop watching to preserve the good memories of Summer!


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Tuesday, February 12, 2008 6:39 PM

ASARIAN


FOX: "Oooo, let's play chess, shall we?! Only, we're a bit retarded, and don't know exactly which way a chess board goes."



"Hmm, h1 is a white square, you say? Eh, who will notice? We're gonna cancel the show anyway. We're just in it for the quick buck."

Yep, they play better than humans, these computers. Big finale, and then (announcer)...

"Rook to c2, checkmate! A shocking turn of events!"

Oh, for frak' sake!! Fox, could you possibly insult your public any further?!


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Tuesday, February 12, 2008 7:33 PM

JUBALISEARLY


First off chill out. I understand that a lot of Firefly fans will hate Fox and those who gave the axe to our beloved show for all time. This show isn't by them, its by some great writers and directors who had nothing to do with Firefly's premature death. Save the venom for the Fox executives please.

This weeks episode was exceptional, not only for its acting, and writing, but also for its overall story arc. I love the Det. Ellison character, and of course Summer/Cameron adds her usual brilliance.

This is a show with a fairly simple plot line, and yet they've managed to bring the feel of the movies into a totally different format. Currently this show (after just 5 episodes) is head and shoulders above Galactica which has turned to a convuluted and uninteresting soap opera. Its lost 90% of its sci and fi and has gone all soap.

In my opninion me this show is on pace (if they bring it back for a second full season) to be one of the best sci fi shows on television second only to Heroes.





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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 2:53 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Haven't missed an episode yet, but I don't know how much longer I can watch it. The show is hollow and soul-less. Lena Heady is maybe THE worst actress I've ever seen....no emotion, no believability...just reading her lines off a script. There is not one endearing element in the show (save for Summer's presence)...ie, I don't like or care about these people, as they've given me nothing about them to like or believe in or care about. I'm rooting for the terminators to kill 'em all. Then show me a flash forward to the future, and all will change, probably for the better. I never really "bought into" the storyline that John Connor...the Great John Connor was the ONLY man in the future who could organize and motivate a resistance...What.. no Marines, firemen or cops around? Even those chin-ups Sarah's doing ..well it's obvious she's NOT doing them, they have some guy off-camera lifting her up and down...it's absurd.

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:14 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by jubalisearly:

First off chill out. I understand that a lot of Firefly fans will hate Fox and those who gave the axe to our beloved show for all time. This show isn't by them, its by some great writers and directors who had nothing to do with Firefly's premature death. Save the venom for the Fox executives please.


This has, if not nothing. then very little to do with Fox cancelling Firefly. It's about those alleged "great writers" who can't even place a chess board correctly. It shows a staggering disinterest in getting things right, and it's downright contemptuous towards the viewer even to think they'd get away with it. It's related to Firefly insofar that Joss was the exact opposite: even the letters from "Safe" contained a 'real' story about River at the Academy, spelling errors and all!!

I've played my fair share of chess tournaments (though I haste to say that, with an ELO of 2061, all I ever was, at best, was but an average player). And that commentary during that game, it was so ridiculous, it was almost laughable. :) And then, instead of shelling out the $200 or $300 bucks to buy a real chess program, they let some dork Photoshop something together, dirt-cheap, that puts a black square in the lower right corner, and splash it on a screen! I mean, really!

For those interested, the game they played was real, btw. It's a very famous game played between Byrne vs. Bobby Fischer, New York 1956. Fischer was only 13 at the time!

1 Nf3 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc3 Bg7 4 d4 0-0 5 Bf4 d5 6 Qb3 dxc4 7 Qxc4 c6 8 e4 Nbd7 9 Rd1 Nb6 10 Qc5 Bg4 11 Bg5? Na4!! 12 Qa3 Nxc3 13 bxc3 Nxe4 14 Bxe7 Qb6 15 Bc4 Nxc3

Here cometh the show's big Bc5 moment:

16 Bc5 Rfe8+ 17 Kf1 ...

And Fischer's ingenious answer, sacrificing his Queen:

17. ... Be6!! 18 Bxb6 Bxc4+ 19 Kg1 Ne2+ 20 Kf1 Nxd4+ 21 Kg1 Ne2+ 22 Kf1 Nc3+ 23 Kg1 axb6 24 Qb4 Ra4 25 Qxb6 Nxd1 26 h3 Rxa2 27 Kh2 Nxf2 28 Re1 Rxe1 29 Qd8+ Bf8 30 Nxe1 Bd5 31 Nf3 Ne4 32 Qb8 b5 33 h4 h5 34 Ne5 Kg7 35 Kg1 Bc5+ 36 Kf1 Ng3+ 37 Ke1 Bb4+ 38 Kd1 Bb3+ 39 Kc1 Ne2+ 40 Kb1 Nc3+ 41 Kc1 Rc2 checkmate!


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 4:01 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Haven't missed an episode yet, but I don't know how much longer I can watch it. The show is hollow and soul-less. Lena Heady is maybe THE worst actress I've ever seen....no emotion, no believability...just reading her lines off a script. There is not one endearing element in the show (save for Summer's presence) ... ie, I don't like or care about these people, as they've given me nothing about them to like or believe in or care about. I'm rooting for the terminators to kill 'em all. Then show me a flash forward to the future, and all will change, probably for the better. I never really "bought into" the storyline that John Connor...the Great John Connor was the ONLY man in the future who could organize and motivate a resistance... What... no Marines, firemen or cops around? Even those chin-ups Sarah's doing ..well it's obvious she's NOT doing them, they have some guy off-camera lifting her up and down...it's absurd.


I couldn't agree more. And I knew there was a reason I dislike Lena Heady so. :) Her acting is dispassionate and disinterested; all she's really good at expressing is the "Lemme spout these lines so I can get my paycheck and be out of here" look. And as the Sarah character, I find her thoroughly unpleasant, downright sour even.

And the future of the 'Verse in the hands of the Dekker twerp? *shudder* Oh please! His greatest act of resistance so far has been giving his mommy a whiny look for giving him sandwitches to school for lunch, instead of money.

Summer really oughta be careful that this ain't gonna hurt her career.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 5:10 AM

WINDSTRUCK


I thought it was a good episode. It has a whole bunch of flaws but it's starting to get interesting.. (for me at least).
I liked the terminator fight with Summer and the other robot who or whatever its name is. Tinmiss fought quite well. I thought she'd be thrashed with the hard hits to the face. Whew! She retained her all shiny beauty.

I enjoyed the counseling scene. It was fun to watch. The facial expression was amazing and the voice was really funny. It got me. Really! I kind of expected it but, didn't picture it the same way in my mind.

The Reese brother was quite tragic. Is he really dead? SO who killed the comp guy? I'm now wondering what will happen next now that Sarah's ex fiance met Sarah after 8 years... To ponder.

Anyway, I want to see what happens next. The six episode was rumored to have ballet in it. I'm really looking forward to seeing Summer dance. Yeah, I miss the Angel episode with her dancing ballet.


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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 12:46 PM

SMAUG


Quote:

I couldn't agree more. And I knew there was a reason I dislike Lena Heady so. :) Her acting is dispassionate and disinterested; all she's really good at expressing is the "Lemme spout these lines so I can get my paycheck and be out of here" look. And as the Sarah character, I find her thoroughly unpleasant, downright sour even.


Yea.. it's taken a few episodes to realize that. I think at first I was so focused on the ridiculous plot holes (like a t-800 skeleton sitting in a bank vault for 8 years and no body notices?? and stuff like that) to see the problem with Sarah. It does seem to me like Lena is acting as if she is sorry she took this roll and almost can't wait to for this show to get cancelled or something. Maybe it's not her.. I think she is a good actress. I thought she was awsome in 300. So maybe it's the directing.. or the writing or something. But she does just seem to be so apathetic. Any sence of urgency and drive that Sarah had from the first two movies seems to be totally gone.

Quote:

Tinmiss fought quite well. I thought she'd be thrashed with the hard hits to the face. Whew! She retained her all shiny beauty


That's something that I think they are going to have to come up with a good answer for. Obviously Cameron can't sustain any visible damage (at least to the face) or she won't be able to go out in public anymore. Unless they do that stupid liquid skin/cosmetic surgery crap again. But how many times is Cameron going to be able to fight another terminator and not sustain any damage? After a while it's going to get pretty ridiculous. Actually it's already getting to that point. An easy way around this is to show that Cameron with her smaller size is infinatly faster than any other model terminator and with such speed and grace the larger tank terminators can hardly lay a finger on her. But occassionaly she does get a cut here or there that they can bandage and it will heal natrually. Then they can have an entire story arc when Cameron finally does sustain substansial damage to her skin on her face and they have to try to find a way to fix it... in a way that's better than the crappy idea they already have shown.


All that being said.. I think this 5th episode was probably the best one. I love the idea of the remaining resistance fighter being Kyle's brother! They finally did somethign interesting that ties back to the original films.

However... I'm not sold on the idea of this chess program developed by an intern at Cyberdyne possibly being Skynet 2. I hope this turns out not to be the case.

Smaug



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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 3:49 PM

JONGSSTRAW


I know I wrote a pretty negative post earlier and some have agreed with it, or part of it. I'm now thinkin'.....maybe we're being too harsh on the thing. I mean it IS sci-fi....it does feature our beloved Summer...there ARE many great aspects of it....but actually it really could all just be about the "fun" of it...after all, it's not real, it's entertainment. I'm gonna take a lighter stance with it, and not be so 'spectin' of it. Go Summer! You deserve superstardom (if you want it)! Psssst...whisper some Joss go se to the writers.

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Wednesday, February 13, 2008 10:43 PM

CABOT


It's about those alleged "great writers" who can't even place a chess board correctly.
________

I personally doubt the writers had anything to do with the chessboard screw-up. You can lay that at the feet of the props. or special effects departments.

As far as the skinless head flying out of the time travel effect...I don't even recall seeing that in the "original" version of the pilot. So it makes me think it was decided afterward to change during the pilot "makeover". Yeah the makeover that everyone said, was due to the terminator shooting up the classroom and worry that so close to the Virginia Tech shootings might offend, upset or something...

(Oh by the way, the classroom shoot-up remained pretty much intact.)

I'd guess the real reason they added the skinless head was either upper management decided in the 6 months between the original pilot shoot and the pick up of the series they had to get a new actor to play the "big bad"...and this explains why he has a new /different face.

Or, Execs. wanted the flying head to look more robot...as to make sure people understood that wasn't a human head flying at them. Whichever it was, the head clearly had skin going into the travel effect and I doubt it was done by the writers ignorantly or otherwise messing with Terminator canon.

Some interesting things have been thrown on the table by the writers on which I'd like to hear other opinions.

One of those appeared at the end of episode 4, where, after dumping the load of metal into the ocean, we find that Cameron has hidden a slab of the metal in her room.

Another one occurred near the end of episode 5, while the new-found "uncle" is dying on the table, you see Cameron pull out a pencil and paper and start writing. The whole episode carries this side-plot regarding grief and writing notes to dead folks that can't read them. So to whom is Cameron writing?

Jordan, her "new friend" who took a header off the gymnasium roof? She told us she didn't feel grief for her...freaking out the counselor in the process. (whom I think has more than a professional reason to be asking these questions, but...)

The recently dead, computer nerd Andy? I doubt it she was voting to "off" him from the beginning.

The possibly soon to be dead uncle? Hmmm, I doubt that too.

Having learned that writing a note helps humans deal with the death of a fellow human...could Cameron be working out her grief for the terminator she was forced to kill when she pulled the CPU out of it's skull?

Also, where are we going with the chem-lab partner?

Inquiring minds what to know...

____________

River: Midbulk transport. Standard radion accelerator core. Class-code 03-K64. Firefly.

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:11 AM

JOSSISAGOD


Quote:

Originally posted by Cabot:

Having learned that writing a note helps humans deal with the death of a fellow human...could Cameron be working out her grief for the terminator she was forced to kill when she pulled the CPU out of it's skull?




That seems most likely.

Select to view spoiler:


Her expression at havig to pull out the CPU seems saddend.



Fe'nos Tol
JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

Self appointed Forsaken! Been on the list for a while now!
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
"Look at me, I'm STUPID!" The Doctor.

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 4:13 AM

THEMARKED


First of all, I wanted to say hi to everyone since this is my first post. Before I start I'm gonna apologize up front if I hurt anyone's feelings.
Okay, I've been reading this thread and to my surprise people here are really negative about TSCC and sometimes even about Summer. Well, the show is only just beginning...give it some time and it is already enjoyable IMO. The skull coming though had to do with the Fox executes (yes, they're at it again) They didn't want burning flesh surrounding the head when it came through. Could shock people.

Now I'm gonna come to the real reason I'm posting this. The Browncoats shouldn't diss this show, instead support it cos Summer definetly needs it. Do you want them to off another Firefly alumni? Who knows if this gets more succesful Summer will get big and more opportunity for Serenity 2. A lot of people including me have seen the pilot (in my case the leaked pilot in August 2007) and were intrigued by Summer. I checked her out on the net and downloaded Firefly and Serenity. Incredible show that touched my heart and the movie was incredible too. So I guess I'm a second generation Browncoat! I read what all you guys did so a feature film could be made. I felt the need to contribute and bought the DVD of the series and film. I also recruited other new Browncoats who also purchased DVD's. I also read online a lot of people saw Summer in the pilot of TSCC and have seen Firefly afterwards. So you see, Terminator contributes to Firefly and maybe hopefully next time Firefly spawns something new, you'll have a lot more fans than before TSCC hit the small screen. So no more dissing but instead work together. Coz if we don't this series will not last past 9 episodes and Summer does NOT deserve that! Look at what happened to Drive...Browncoats know everything about trolls cos they're always around...especially when something fails like Serenity failed at the box office. They keep saying that you failed to even attend your own screening which meant Serenity was doomed. To me that was the best movie I saw in the last couple of years by the way. So don't nitpick on Summer's new show but close the ranks and stand up for one of the most important Firefly cast members. Who knows? Some good may come from this in the future. The nasty comments feel like betrayal to me and that's why I felt the need to post here. I don't think Summer would like it either. And last but not least...last episode of TSCC was awesome! If the show keeps this up it will be a kick@ss ride!

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:49 AM

JUBALISEARLY


Sorry douled up...

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:58 AM

JUBALISEARLY


I find it hilarious that anyone could make such a big deal out of so small a mistake a chessboard screw-up. Seriously, if your watching anything on TV that closely you need therapy, or you need to slide a few more inches back because your beginning to suffer from radiation poisoning.

Quote:

...it shows a staggering disinterest in getting things right, and it's downright contemptuous towards the viewer even to think they'd get away with it..."


Your a chess fan we get it... theres a lot of people aren't all that into chess, and could careless that a minute detail was screwed up. I love Risk, should I get pissed when they show a Risk board without Australia?


Contemptuous? Really...you think they hate their audience? Or is it that because they made a mistake on something dear to your heart thats made you lash out like a two year old?

Quote:

...And then, instead of shelling out the $200 or $300 bucks to buy a real chess program, they let some dork Photoshop something together, dirt-cheap, that puts a black square in the lower right corner, and splash it on a screen! I mean, really!


So now their cheap because a simple mistake was made? Whatever...

This shows writing so far has been pretty strong considering the source material. While it may not be up to Whedon's or Minnear's standards, so far it's head and shoulders up against shows like Smallville, or Stargate 'Yawn'.

I've accused some in here of being so biased against FOX that they have already made up their minds on this show, and I still stand by that. Its entertainment guys (scripted I might add, an increasing rarity in todays TV world.) ...so get off the high horse and change the channel if you don't like it.

So far every critic has given nothing but empty rhetoric and banal statements... ie 'This Show sucks...or wheres Arnold...or Lena Headly sucks'

Give it a rest and turn the channel instead of throwing this drivel around.

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 11:06 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Hey Jubal...I guess you didn't see my last post....some of us have "chilled" out on it already...really don't need you coming in here admonishing other Browncoats. People are entitled to their opinions, good and bad. Criticize or praise the show, not the opinions.

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 1:47 PM

ZEEK


Just because you like the show is no reason to start insulting posters. They are entitled to their opinion about the show just as much as you are. But if you have a bad opinion about the poster at least try to keep it constructive please.


As for this next episode I was again unimpressed. The show is getting a little better, but they really need to work on the details. "Chess is a game of total annihilation"? Really since when? I thought it was just about getting to the King. Even then you just get him in checkmate and don't even take the piece. They need to stop trying to sound all deep if they aren't even going to take a minute to think through the dialog.

The Turk was really annoying too. This one is probably because I majored in Computer Science. They're just throwing terms around to sound cool and they clearly don't know what they're talking about. In which case I see no reason for the flashy terms. He doesn't need them to talk to Sarah. She wouldn't understand them anyway. So, just give it a rest.

The terminators are really getting old. I think half the people in this city are terminators. With all of them running around I'm half expecting there to be a big reveal that this FBI agent is a terminator as well and he's just executing his mission to find John and Sarah.

Like most of the people on here, I'm hopeful that they're just finding their footing and it will pick up steam soon. I'm thinking the Reese brother will live and that could help give the story some edge. Did anyone else want to slap the paramedic when he just stood there starring at Sarah? The man isn't breathing!!! Get to work already!!!

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 3:06 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
Just because you like the show is no reason to start insulting posters. They are entitled to their opinion about the show just as much as you are. But if you have a bad opinion about the poster at least try to keep it constructive please.


As for this next episode I was again unimpressed. The show is getting a little better, but they really need to work on the details. "Chess is a game of total annihilation"? Really since when? I thought it was just about getting to the King. Even then you just get him in checkmate and don't even take the piece. They need to stop trying to sound all deep if they aren't even going to take a minute to think through the dialog.

The Turk was really annoying too. This one is probably because I majored in Computer Science. They're just throwing terms around to sound cool and they clearly don't know what they're talking about. In which case I see no reason for the flashy terms. He doesn't need them to talk to Sarah. She wouldn't understand them anyway. So, just give it a rest.

The terminators are really getting old. I think half the people in this city are terminators. With all of them running around I'm half expecting there to be a big reveal that this FBI agent is a terminator as well and he's just executing his mission to find John and Sarah.

Like most of the people on here, I'm hopeful that they're just finding their footing and it will pick up steam soon. I'm thinking the Reese brother will live and that could help give the story some edge. Did anyone else want to slap the paramedic when he just stood there starring at Sarah? The man isn't breathing!!! Get to work already!!!


Awesome assessment. 100% agrement here.

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 5:44 PM

SMAUG


Well.. I am still watching the show and will continue to give it a chance. At least watch it through the episodes they actually have filmed.

But the thing about it. Doesn't matter weither or not who's in the show or who is responsible for the show or what network is broadcasting the show and on and on. If it's not good.. you just can't go on supporting it. Time's too valuable to support something that's not that good.

And out of all the critizisms of TSCC, I don't "hate" it. I am mostly "disappointed" in it.

As an example. The movie "Transformers". A lot of people loved that movie. I thought it was "entertaining" for what it was. Robot on Robot action. It was better than I was expecting it to be when I first heard about it a couple of years earlier. For a "turn your brain off and just enjoy the ride" kind of movie, it was enjoyable. However, I walked away from the movie VERY VERY disappointed. Disappointed in the fact that they actually had some REALLY great ideas in that movie. But they just couldn't decide what kind of movie they wanted it to be. Was it going to be a military thirller? Or a boy and his car buddy movie? Then they throw in the keystone cop sigma six miltary guy, and also the blond and black hackers.. and just one thing after another. Then they would have a scene of "comic relief" that went on for 30 minutes too long. So long in fact you can't remember why they needed comic relief in the first place. And on and on.

Even though I "enjoyed" the movie... I was 100 times more disappointed in it.. because underneight all that unneccisary crap.. there could have been something truely GREAT! But instead.. we have a movie that made tons of money.. will have a sequel or two.. and 1 year after the last movie comes out.. everyone will forget about it.

Instead.. they could have had a movie that 20 years from now would still be on people's mind and in the top X number of sci-fi movies of all time. Sure.. it may not have made 500 million in the first year or whatever, but instead it might have made 750 million or more over the next couple of decades.

TSCC is the same way... I am enjoying it. Summer being one of the few things that isn't a problem with the show. But I am mostly disappointed... because it COULD be great, and I am hoping it still can be). But they started out with so many plot holes and bad writing and messing up cannon.. only to finally show a glimmer of promise here or there.. but then to only drop the ball again.

Oh well.. it IS only the 5th episode... I still have hope it can get better, if it doesn't get cancelled before then.

I would LOVE to know honestly what James Cameron thinks of it so far. I doubt that it would be pretty.

Smaug.

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 6:28 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by jubalisearly:

Seriously, if your watching anything on TV that closely you need therapy,


It's the popular theory.

Quote:


I love Risk, should I get pissed when they show a Risk board without Australia?


More to the point, should *I* get pissed if you did?

Quote:


Contemptuous? Really...you think they hate their audience?


No, they hold them in contempt. They're not doing their homework. Computer Science, Chess, Terminator bodies lying around undetected in a vault for 8 years, whatever, they botch the details. Badly. And they count on the audience being too stupid to notice. "The Japanese seize control of the center with Bc5." Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds for a supposedly high-level game? Seriously, if they know zilch about chess, then they should either educate themselves or try not to sound like they do! As Mark Twain said: It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Quote:


Or is it that because they made a mistake on something dear to your heart thats made you lash out like a two year old?


Physician, heal thyself.

Quote:


So now their cheap because a simple mistake was made?


No, they're cheap, pretty much like I said, because they were, erm, too cheap to shell out the $200 or $300 bucks for a real chess program to show on that screen.

Quote:


Give it a rest and turn the channel instead of throwing this drivel around.


You've been here too long, really, to be excused for such a tone. And I've been here too long, really, to make a big stink about it. But I start fighting a war, I guarantee you'll see something new. :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:36 PM

THEMARKED


I thought Browncoats were better than this...very dissapointing to say the least. How can you expect Firefly or Serenity to ever succeed if you don't even stand behind your people. Support Summer instead of becoming the trolls that we so frequently see attacking Firefly. No wonder Serenity tanked at the box office cos you guys can't close ranks. I'm a huge Firefly fan, that's why seeing those comments hurts so much. Feels like betrayal. By the way, how could someone go on and on about the chessgame. Hardly anyone cares that much about chesstournaments these days. If you go that way I could nitpick the crap out of almost every tv show on the air.

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Friday, February 15, 2008 2:41 AM

MUGGI


Quote:

Originally posted by TheMarked:
I thought Browncoats were better than this...very dissapointing to say the least. How can you expect Firefly or Serenity to ever succeed if you don't even stand behind your people. Support Summer instead of becoming the trolls that we so frequently see attacking Firefly. No wonder Serenity tanked at the box office cos you guys can't close ranks. I'm a huge Firefly fan, that's why seeing those comments hurts so much. Feels like betrayal. By the way, how could someone go on and on about the chessgame. Hardly anyone cares that much about chesstournaments these days. If you go that way I could nitpick the crap out of almost every tv show on the air.



With all due respect..

There's a difference between "support" and "blind fanaticism". The show is not good. SUMMER is good. Richard JONES is good. The writing is amateur at best; flaky, cheezy and predictable most of the time. The WRITERS have absolutely NOTHING to do with Firefly.

I watch the show. I enjoy it somewhat, but it's NOT WELL-MADE.

Being a fan of something like Firefly should IMO make you even angrier about this! Look, look what Joss and his team did with their money, and then see what these other idiots did with theirs. And THEY are the ones with a running series?! WTF?!@

This week's episode did not improve on the show's problems at ALL. I know next to NOTHING about chess, but even still the tournament was not believable. Putting Reese' brother into the script was dumb IMO; it comes off as a "LOOK LOOK we've ALMOST GOT THE GUY FROM THE REAL TERMINATOR" stunt to grab fans.

My example of why the writing on this show sucked THIS week: final scene. Reese lays dying on the table...so of course, the EMT-former-almost-Dad guy runs in...and pauses to share a tv moment with Sarah. Totally fake, totally "you are watching a tv show" writing. He then runs in and starts PUMPING ON THE GUY'S CHEST, when we haven't been told anything about the guy's heart stopping. They said his BREATHING had stopped. Big difference.

I should also say these guys never got the memo about CPR..unless you're writing for "ER", where they have very good CPR dummies...DO NOT SHOW CPR FROM A WIDE ANGLE. It cannot LOOK real without hurting the actor, so you're better off just NOT SHOWING IT. You shoot CPR scenes while focused on the giver's face, showing their forceful body motion downward. If the writers had ever seen an old episode of ER (pre-dummies), they would know this. And guess what? they should have.

How much more impact would the scene have had if he ran in, saw dying guy, immediately runs over and starts doing his thing..then looked UP at Sarah and gave the same grim, "what the hell did you do to me" tv moment look he gave at the doorway? It would have conveyed suspense about Reese dying, about what their relationship would be, about what would be said next. They could have ended the show with just that scene, and spared the Sarah voiceover..which is getting old, really quick. Again, predictable. Even shows that LIVE on the voiceover, like "Scrubs", will use the lack of a closing voiceover to change the pace and inject some drama..which was what the last scene was supposed to be about.

So there, there's my negative comments for the week. I support Firefly, and Summer is the only reason I even gave the show a chance after Week 1.

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Friday, February 15, 2008 3:35 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Muggi:


I watch the show. I enjoy it somewhat, but it's NOT WELL-MADE.

Being a fan of something like Firefly should IMO make you even angrier about this! Look, look what Joss and his team did with their money, and then see what these other idiots did with theirs. And THEY are the ones with a running series?! WTF?!@

This week's episode did not improve on the show's problems at ALL. I know next to NOTHING about chess, but even still the tournament was not believable. Putting Reese' brother into the script was dumb IMO; it comes off as a "LOOK LOOK we've ALMOST GOT THE GUY FROM THE REAL TERMINATOR" stunt to grab fans.

My example of why the writing on this show sucked THIS week: final scene. Reese lays dying on the table...so of course, the EMT-former-almost-Dad guy runs in...and pauses to share a tv moment with Sarah. Totally fake, totally "you are watching a tv show" writing.

(...)

So there, there's my negative comments for the week. I support Firefly, and Summer is the only reason I even gave the show a chance after Week 1.


Very well said, Muggi! I was just gonna write something similar, but you saved me the trouble. :)

Yes, I too love Summer! And there ain't no soul this end of the 'Verse that can't relate. :) And if it weren't for her, I would have long since stopped watching. Have you ever seen me get upset about, say, Bionic Woman? Nope. Shows like that I just consume for light entertainment. It's just that I'm 'invested', so to speak, in the career of Summer: I want her to succeed, and play many new, clever and brilliant roles. And it literally pains me to see that she cannot do so in TSCC.

It ain't about chess, of course; and it never were. It's about bad writing, disinterested prop-guys, and an entire story riddled with holes. The chess thing just made me realize the level of incompetence. I could just as easily have lamented about the whole Turk mumbo-jumbo, or any of the dozens of other major flaws mentioned in this thread. It's just not very good.

I'm also not for blind fanaticism. I love Summer. But I also believe that, at any given time, the most benign thing you can do for a person/show, is tell them the truth. That way, when you compliment them, they know it's real, too. Not that I'm so delusional as to think Summers's actually reading our little thread, but, for my own self, I just can't come here and speak from the heart, as I've done the last few years, and then suddenly fake an attitude about a show that really don't do it for me, just because Summer is in it. Can't say as I feel particularly bad 'bout it, either. Especially since I haven't seen even a single person diss Summer.

And yes, I will see Ep. 6, too. :)

P.S. Reading your nick, there, I just realized that's Quark's mother. :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Friday, February 15, 2008 4:02 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by TheMarked:
No wonder Serenity tanked at the box office cos you guys can't close ranks.


I think you've lost the high ground here dear. You're pointing fingers at Browncoats for the poor box office results of Serenity? Isn't that a bit absurd...really? If it wasn't for the few, original, dedicated Browncoats, there would never have been a movie in the first place....and that movie has brought millions more into the Firefly verse over the last 2 years. Give it time....patience Grasshopper! Sarah Connor Chronicles and it's quality has nothing to do with Firefly, neither does Nathan being in Desperate Housewives & Waitress, or Jewel & Morena in Stargates. These people are actors...they go where the jobs are. Someday, if were lucky, there might be more of Joss's verse, but we all don't have to love everything the BDH's do for the rest of our lives.

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Friday, February 15, 2008 11:38 AM

THEMARKED


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:

Originally posted by TheMarked:
No wonder Serenity tanked at the box office cos you guys can't close ranks.


I think you've lost the high ground here dear. You're pointing fingers at Browncoats for the poor box office results of Serenity? Isn't that a bit absurd...really? If it wasn't for the few, original, dedicated Browncoats, there would never have been a movie in the first place....and that movie has brought millions more into the Firefly verse over the last 2 years. Give it time....patience Grasshopper! Sarah Connor Chronicles and it's quality has nothing to do with Firefly, neither does Nathan being in Desperate Housewives & Waitress, or Jewel & Morena in Stargates. These people are actors...they go where the jobs are. Someday, if were lucky, there might be more of Joss's verse, but we all don't have to love everything the BDH's do for the rest of our lives.



Exactly my point. The Browncoats fought to get the movie and failed to fight further. They treated Firefly wrong at Fox. Episodes not in the right order and much more. It wasn't given a fair shot. So don't play by the book this time. And your opinions vary a lot from other opinions considering the show. Hopefully it will be renewed and Summer will get bigger. Serenity 2 has more chance if at least one makes it big. As for the Browncoats. I loved the show and what the fans did to get the movie. The show had love and warmth all over it and that was good. However I'm appalled by how people aimlessly bash Terminator while I myself can see a lot of flaws in Firefly. Nothing is perfect in this world. I can see this is not the place for me and I won't defend Firefly on other forums anymore against mindless trolls who hate things. Seems like at least a couple of you turned into them too. I can take critisism but some of you won't even allow others opinions. I'm dissapointed cos this was the last thing I expected from Browncoats. I wish you luck with Serenity in the future. Goodbye.

ps: How could someone make something good like Firefly and fail so hopelessly with Buffy and Angel? Too bad the worst survived for seasons while the best didn't even get 1. What a damn shame.

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Friday, February 15, 2008 1:01 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Quote:

Originally posted by TheMarked:
How could someone make something good like Firefly and fail so hopelessly with Buffy and Angel? Too bad the worst survived for seasons while the best didn't even get 1. What a damn shame.


Whoa there! Now who's dissing other productions by Firefly writers and producers? That comment is just as arrogant, and downright wrong, as anything anyone else has said against TSCC on this thread. I know it's all just a matter of taste and personal opinion, but anyone who doesn't think highly of Buffy and Angel loses a lot of respect from me. How much of either of those shows have you watched? In my (not so) humble opinion, Firefly is the best television show ever produced, but Buffy and Angel both make it into at least the Top 10 of my favorites, if not the Top 5.



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Friday, February 15, 2008 3:16 PM

MUGGI


Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:

P.S. Reading your nick, there, I just realized that's Quark's mother. :)




LOL is it really?

And I thought I was SOOO original :P Muggi Slugfingers was the name of my gnome bard in Everquest 2 and Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, two online games.

p.s.: I'm a guy, and so was the character!

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Friday, February 15, 2008 8:53 PM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by TheMarked:

Exactly my point. The Browncoats fought to get the movie and failed to fight further.


In earnest, you've made what, a good 3 posts here? Don't ya think it's a mite odd for you to tell veteran Browncoats that the've "failed to fight further"? They've already Done The Impossible; have you?

Point of interest? Calling folks "mindless trolls" might not work so well as an incentive to endear them to you as you might imagine.

Quote:


Some of you won't even allow others opinions.


Seems odd you would support an argument you were on the wrong side of. Because, quite frankly, I see no one here so vehemently trying to suppress other opinions than you.

The irony of it all, is that Browncoats are the exact opposite from "mindless" drones; they are independents. They don't like to be meddled with. Don't tell them what to think, what to do. "Don't run, don't walk." Start ringing a bell?

Browncoats beat as one heart when it comes to Firefly/Serenity. But when it comes to other shows, it's likely you'll see some divergence.

Overall, this is the most loving board I've ever been on. I'm thinking perhaps you chose the wrong thread to introduce yourself to the 'Verse? So, are you on the wrong ship? Maybe. Or maybe you're exactly where you ought to be. :)


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Saturday, February 16, 2008 9:48 PM

STONER4LIFE


Like that person, I'm a second gen firefly fan. I agree with ya guys, Firefly was a good show. But don't get confused. If it wasn't for Summer Glau, the actual star of the show (Yes, it wasn't Nathan), Firefly would be a mediocre show. Seriously... Who stood out of the crowd of Firefly? River. Who intrigued more than the others of the show? River. Who stole every scene she was in? River. Who was the subject of the movie? River (and the Reavers, but River mostly).

I read that the 1st gen browncoats were responsible for the movie. If you did everything right, Firefly would still be on television! So don't give yourself credit for getting a movie, give yourself credit for allowing the network to cancel Firefly in the first place!!! And also, who went to check out the movie at the cinema, huh?!? Huh?!? You tell me why it was a box office flop!!! And you call yourself fans. And before you start asking me where I was: it was the movie I saw at the movie theater that made me watch the show, so there!!!

IF ya hate Terminator... whatever, you know? But help out a Browncoat, okay? Least thing you could do is put your tv on whatever network it's on and do something else for an hour or so. And think about it: if ya help Summer out, her star will rise: more free publicity for Firefly.

You should be ashamed for what you're doing to Summer Glau. I'm taking off my brown coat. I'm done with you people.

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Sunday, February 17, 2008 4:05 AM

ASARIAN


A good actress is like a flower: she'll only flourish on vertile soil. Joss provided that, plentifold. TSCC doesn't. The thing I'm uncomprehending on, though, is why that position angers folks so--to the degree of tossing their brown coat, even. Must we hail everything Summer does, just because she's Summer? Or is there room to acknowldge that the director/writer of a show plays an integral part in allowing a flower like Summer to blossom? And, conversely, are we given the space to notice that other directors/shows are not as good as Joss? I'd like to think I can credit Joss' genius, next to that of Summer. And that one does not detract from the other--ere the opposite: that it is the synergy of great souls that makes Firefly work. If I give Summer all the credit, then what my right hand gives to Summer, my left hand takes away from Joss. And I'm not prepared to do that. And, in earnest, I don't even think she'd want us to.


--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Sunday, February 17, 2008 5:41 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


I find it highly illogical for those who didn't discover the 'verse until the movie to be criticizing those of us who did watch the series when it was originally on the air. Where were you then? We may be able to lay the blame on the FOX execs who didn't give it a good timeslot, refused to air the pilot first, altered the order of the other episodes, and generally under-promoted the show. However, it is people like you who were not watching it that caused its cancellation, not those of us who were watching and trying desperately to get the attention of others.

TSCC will survive or fail based on its own merits. I've watched it, and will continue to watch what FOX offers, and even hope they pick it up for more episodes. Not because I think it is a great show, but it does have potential which I hope is eventually realized. I can read, and to an extent agree with, some of the criticisms of the show without attempting to brand those critics as traitors to the cause. I agree that Summer was an extremely integral part of both Firefly and Serenity, and in my review of the series - http://templetongate.net/firefly.htm - even went as far as saying she was the one whose acting impressed me the most, mainly because her role was so intriguing as well as the fact she had the least acting experience of anyone in the cast. I do not for one second think that is all of her own doing, but rather the fact that Joss and the rest of the cast and crew were so good at their jobs that they supported her every effort to do the best job possible.

Anyone who wants to claim that we have to support and praise everything that our BDHs do in the future ought to check out two different Sci-Fi "Original" movies - Mammoth and Sands of Oblivion. Summer was in the former, and Morena and Adam in the latter. Both stunk to high heaven, both in concept and execution. That is not to say that the actors didn't do the best they could with weak scripts and direction, but I can't think of an actor in history who could be so good as to overcome everything else in a production that is wrong. Possibly Olivier, but even he was in some clunkers now and then.

So in summation, watch the show or don't, it doesn't matter to me. Just don't try to tell the rest of us that we have to have the same opinion of it.

PS: I'm laying odds that TheMarked and Stoner4Life are the same person. Any takers?



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Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:02 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Muggi:

Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:

P.S. Reading your nick, there, I just realized that's Quark's mother. :)




LOL is it really?

And I thought I was SOOO original :P Muggi Slugfingers was the name of my gnome bard in Everquest 2 and Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, two online games.

p.s.: I'm a guy, and so was the character!


Come to think of it, I now think the term of endearment used for Quark's mother was probably "Mugi/Moogi" (which actually sounds close to the Dutch vernacular of "Moeke/Moekie", meaning: "Mother"). So, Muggi is still original, it seems. :)



--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:50 AM

MUGGI


Quote:


You should be ashamed for what you're doing to Summer Glau. I'm taking off my brown coat. I'm done with you people.



I still don't understand why people equate the actor with the show..there's many, MANY instances throughout history where a very good actor has been the only bright spot in a tv show, movie, play, etc etc etc.

Why does ripping on how poorly a show is MADE have ANYTHING to do with how the actors perform? One has absolutely NOTHING to do with the other. Summer doesn't write the show any more than the writers and directors appear on-screen. This question still has not been answered.

As for not supporting Firefly when it was on tv..FULL PAGE AD IN VARIETY dude. Name me another group of fans that have pulled together the cash for that. Please don't insult those who went to extreme lengths to keep the show running.

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Sunday, February 17, 2008 8:24 AM

MIRAMEL


i've been holding off from weighing in here, mostly because i don't want to get myself all riled up, and also because people like asarian and jongsstraw and egg pretty much have my opinion covered. but the insults aimed at the original 'coats are really starting to piss me off.

you weren't there, (also, just for clarification, neither was i- i jumped into the 'verse about a month before serenity hit theaters) you have NO idea what they did/ could have done. the fact is, they did EVERYTHING they could, and quite a few things that everyone thought they really couldn't. i'm sorry, i don't think this is opinion, i think this is straight-up fact. as someone said a few posts ago, the fault then lies with YOU (and me) who weren't there in the beginning. so where the hell do you get off insulting the people who have actually been doing something long before you knew there was anything to do? another thing you have to realize is that there just weren't that many 'coats when it originally aired. there wasn't anything more they could ahve done with the troops they had.


and as someone said a minute ago, suggesting that a show a BDH is in is poorly written or executed is in NO way the same as insulting that particular BDH. mammoth is a good example.

~~~~
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature
~~
Fear is the Mind Killer
~~~~

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Sunday, February 17, 2008 10:18 AM

DARKFLY


I randomly stumbled arcoss this page on the Mr.Skin site & Summer Glau is amounst the most searched on the site, no doubt to her wider fame for her role in The Sarah Connor Chronicles.

Here's the link if anybody wants to see for themselves:
http://www.mrskin.com/search/search

And a here is a Screenshot I took of the page, she's up their with the big guns (no pun intended).





---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.myspace.com/darkfly7
Knightfly on Xfire, www.xfire.com/profile/knightfly/
Want pics, vids, ringtones,ect releated to Serenity and Firefly...
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=26986

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