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Originally posted by bobecc:
It's also kind of weird how in Jaynestown Simon is pretty much a bumbling idiot with no acting or lying ability, yet in Serenity he confidently strolls into a secure alliance facility and pulls it off flawlessly.

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Originally posted by theonetruebix:
Note also that in the series, you DO see Simon being active and daring -- as long as it involves protecting his sister. And that's precisely what's going on when he rescues her.

There's no question that initially, this entire thing was Joss outright contradicting the story told by Simon in the series. He's admitted as much. But he's also admitted to siding with the fanwank of "Simon withheld part of the story from the crew in the pilot" thereby bringing it all back into compliance and continuity.

(In other words, "Simon lied" is not merely fanwank community canon, it's official canon, at least if you consider Joss' opinion official canon.)

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Originally posted by onthedrift:

And as far as Simon being "bumbling", you're exactly right theonetruebix, everything changes when River is involved.

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This is simply a case of over analysis and taking things out of context.


I really don't understand why these inconsistencies are a problem for people that absolutely need to be resolved.

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Originally posted by Unseen:
Though yes, the problem of Captain/Sergeant is there... I don't believe this is a continuity problem however, more likely just a mistake/assumption on the parts of whoever created that little computer sequence the Operative is watching. Working with a movie script where he's only ever referred to as Captain... and remember, these are the same people who in one shot spell his name incorrectly then it's fine in another.

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Originally posted by Petaline:
Ok, maybe I'm missing something but isn't there a HUGE discrepancy between Simon's story of getting River out of the academy and what we see in the movie?

In the movie, Simon goes in there and gets her himself and takes her out completely conscious and all. They get on a ship and go.

But in Serenity (the pilot), Simon says some underground men got her out and she woke up in cryo. Even if Simon somehow sedated her and put her out and into cryo after the breakout, he said that he didn't get her out himself.

Was this an attempt by Joss to make Simon seem less of wuss? I mean Simon gets decked by someone in like every other episode but why would Joss have made this glaring plothole?

Please lemme know what y'all think about this.

"Sir, I think you have a problem with your brain being missing."

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Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Instead of making things up, I decided to look at the wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Tam

Which is complete crap btw, and check out the references.

This link from the references in the wikipedia article:

http://www.serenitymovie.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=766

has an interveiw with Joss in it. Here's the exert that matters.

"""
Question: Hi Joss. I was just wondering, a bit of a discrepency I might have noticed in the series and in the film. In the series, it is implied that River was smuggled *to* Simon in that chyrogenic box, yet in this movie we've seen him rescuing her. Is that just something you had to put in the plot to make it make sense to people who have never seen the series or did I just--

JOSS: -- Man, I haven't even noticed that [laughs]. It is the one place where I broke cannon, because I started to write the movie with people we have never met, breaking the material out, and I thought "My God, this is uninvolving" and realised I had to switch it for the movie to make it Simon himself who broke her out. So. My fan wank goes out as follows, he was lying about when he said other people broke her out, and I haven't gotten why yet... Im working on it.
"""

So, there you go. Joss admitts that he broke canon introducing inconsistencies in the story line.

Check your references people!

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I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Originally posted by akredhead:
I don't know if this has been said before (color me lazy)...

But to me the most striking difference between the movie and the pilot was that...the pilot seemed more "westerny" whereas the movie sorta downplayed the western style and upped the sci-fi style.

Don't get me wrong...you still get an "Old West" sense out of the movie...but I found that the asian theme and the sci-fi theme were stronger.

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Originally posted by Unseen:

again, I stick by what is in the pilot

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Originally posted by Unseen:

...
(and afaik the entire series and corroborated in the book) that Simon never specifically claims OR denies that he was directly involved.

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Originally posted by Unseen:

His telling of the story was a quick summary for the crew, which the book elaborates on how the entire escape `went down`, and everything in what he actually says in the pilot scene, and how the book details the events does explain away this `problem` for the movie.

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