are deleted scenes canon? by Extrocomp

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

are deleted scenes canon?

POSTED BY: EXTROCOMP
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 14:26
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Monday, December 17, 2007 4:55 PM

I think deleted scenes should be considered canon as long as they don't contradict existing scenes. Of the 4 deleted scenes from the Firefly series, the only one that isn't canon is 'Objects in Space Scene 6' since it has completely different dialogue from the aired version of that scene.

I don't have the Serenity DVD with me but I seem to recall that many of the deleted scenes were just extended versions of existing scenes and don't replace anything in the movie. I particularly liked 'Extended Kaylee and Jayne', 'Inara and Sheydra', 'Escape from Companion Training House' and 'Extended Mal and Operative Coda'.

My question is about the scenes 'Operative Tracks Mal' and 'Haven Opening'. Are they consistent with the aired versions? I seem to remember that in the aired version the Operative looked up Mal's record himself but I could be mistaken.

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Monday, December 17, 2007 5:37 PM

EMPIREX

I agree.

They were important enough to be filmed. Usually they're cut out only for time limits. Like all of Inara's scenes in the frickin' BDM. (Grrrr, Joss. Grrr.)

"Can you, for a moment, imagine how depressing it is to teach one thousand years of masculine ineptitude? Why do you think there are so few women historians? I'll tell you why. Because history is not such a frolic for women as it is for men... History is a commentary on the various and continuing incapabilities of men. History is women following behind with a bucket and a mop." - Alan Bennett, "The History Boys"

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Monday, December 17, 2007 7:42 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

In the case of both Firefly and Serenity, I think the deleted scenes should be considered canon because Joss made the decisions about what to include on the dvds.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Tuesday, December 18, 2007 5:12 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

The simple answer I've seen these past 4 years regarding the TV extra scenes are: "Yes they are canon". OIS scene 6 is the exception and is not canon.

My fav deleted scene is one that should NEVER have been cut: When River looks at Safron and declares her a liar. This was important to the ongoing theme that River says TRUE things, but those around her see only a lunatic making statements that appear as rude/crazy/absurd.

As far as the movie extras, they are extended cuts that didn't make it past the editor prior to theatrical release. All are canon.

Do not fear me. Our's is a peaceful race and we must live in harmony.

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Tuesday, December 18, 2007 12:30 PM

EXTROCOMP

If anyone has the Serenity DVD on hand, can they please check the two versions of the Operative Tracks Mal scene and answer my question about whether they are consistent or not?

I know one scene from the Serenity DVD that definitely isn't canon: Mal & Inara Shuttle Improv. This scene looks more like an outtake than a deleted scene. The sound effects and CGI are non-existant so you can see parts of the studio through the window. This scene is on Disc 2 if anyone's wondering.

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Tuesday, December 18, 2007 3:37 PM

MERRYK

For those that Joss deliberately says that he only cut out for time or (for BDM scenes) for non-fan audience appreciation, I cannot see any reason to not consider them canon. After all, we can see them acted, whereas simply words from Joss's mouth are considered canon by most people.

--
"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown

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Tuesday, December 18, 2007 8:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

The scenes in BDm, I'm assuming you mean the Operative looking at the files of Mal, Zoe, Inara. Those are all non-conflicting with the final cut, just time saving, editing changes, most of the critical info was made available in slightly different delivery in the final product.

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Thursday, December 20, 2007 5:12 PM

EXTROCOMP

Thank you, jewelstaitefan.

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Saturday, December 22, 2007 2:40 PM

LEXAN

I personally have never considered deleted scenes of any kind to be canon, because once they have been 'deleted', they can be contradicted, even if this is not the intention. Obviously Firefly/Serenity is different because it is not continuing but I still think this stands.

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Saturday, December 22, 2007 3:42 PM

CHRISTHECYNIC

I think it's best to think of them as throughly in the "maybe" department. Consider them but don't swear by them.

The scene between Mal and Inara in her shuttle (cut from Serenity the movie) where she says she may have found something useful is obviously not canon because the something useful she found was the bow that got cut from the movie*. Likewise it doesn't make sense for Mal to tell Wash to get the part Kaylee wants in Serenity (the episode) because he's still refused to get it in the next episode.

*The bolt shooter they replaced the bow with pisses me off for a number of reasons, not the lest of which being that it wouldn't fit in the thing she carried the bow, and thus presumably it, in.

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Monday, December 24, 2007 12:06 AM

EXTROCOMP

Are you talking about the Mal and Inara Shuttle Chase scene or the Mal & Inara Shuttle Improv scene?

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Monday, December 24, 2007 8:17 AM

PLATONIST

I consider the "deleted" shuttle scene canon because it refers to where the "bow and arrow" or "bolt thrower" (which ever you prefer) came from. Inara left it in the infamous "trunk". She doesn't elaborate on what the weapon is in the scene, she only describes it as something of use, so the change in weapon is unknown to the viewer at the time of viewing. No discrepancy in the canon is created.

I consider all of the deleted scenes canon because on the deleted commentary Joss states that most of them were cut purely in order for the movie to come in under the two hour time frame it was budgeted for.

The improv shuttle scene is Nathan and Moreno playing “Mal and Inara” and doing their little “love bantering” thingy, beyond a lot of fun, I don’t consider it canon.

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Tuesday, December 25, 2007 3:58 AM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Lexan:

I personally have never considered deleted scenes of any kind to be canon, because once they have been 'deleted', they can be contradicted, even if this is not the intention. Obviously Firefly/Serenity is different because it is not continuing but I still think this stands.

A good academic point you make here! Everything in the deleted scenes is up for grabs. Their reputation, so to speak, is not "solid". That alone disqualifies em for canon-hood.

Most of the deleted scenes don't contradict canon-as-we-know-it; though some do. And I don't just mean 'Objects in Space Scene 6', but also, for instance, the infamous "I'll knit!" takeout, which is a smashing scene with some lovely acting, but puts a slightly different (and, most like, a probably too incestuous) slant on the relationship between the Tam siblings.

So, I'm happy to consider only canon that which was in the end deemed worth keeping.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Tuesday, December 25, 2007 6:17 AM

MERRYK

Interesting, Asarian. I think the whole point of that scene was to show the opposite about the Tams...and that River was crazy.

Of all the scenes that could be construed in that way, that one would not be one I would choose (though in general I think people who see Tamcest are rather confused about the different types of love in the Verse).

--
"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown

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Tuesday, December 25, 2007 6:22 AM

HIXIE129

I think all deleted scenes are Apocrypha

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Tuesday, December 25, 2007 1:16 PM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by MerryK:

Interesting, Asarian. I think the whole point of that scene was to show the opposite about the Tams...and that River was crazy. Of all the scenes that could be construed in that way, that one would not be one I would choose (though in general I think people who see Tamcest are rather confused about the different types of love in the Verse).

Well, *I* didn't see it that way. :) But I can imagine that Joss foresaw some possible trouble with that scene, and that maybe it was best left out. Though it really was a brilliant scene.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Tuesday, December 25, 2007 11:09 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

I would think scenes which were included in the script and shot that way and don't conflict with the finished product and were merely cut for time would have a decent pedigree.
They should only be disallowed if conflicting with the finished product.
Most of what Joss intended should be canon. Otherwise, from an academic point of view, the network's sequence of episodes would be the canaon versus what Joss filmed an intended, and the pilot really does occur after Objects in Space.

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Wednesday, December 26, 2007 2:26 PM

LEIASKY

>Though it really was a brilliant scene.

That scene was just wonderful. I wish Joss had kept it in for many reasons.

"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."

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