The Next Heroes Thread by Cybersnark

On Wednesday, Nov 1st:

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:

Those are locker doors. Like you'd find in a high school. Apparently being thrown telekinetically, either at Pete or by him, using someone's powers.

CALLED IT!!!

The new comic's up: http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/, focusing on Eden this week, and giving some real insight into her attitude toward her power --and her responsibility.

I can't find the Easter Egg this week; it's not on the last page. Keep searching around.

OTOH, last week's Easter Egg has finally appeared.

And from the other thread:

Quote:
Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
- Hiro went back six months into the past? According to the waitress that Hiro's buddy talked to he apparently was around for months before disappearing just a few weeks before she was killed. If he was in the past and around for months, why is the waitress still dead? Where is Hiro? He was supposed to be at the Homecoming according to Isaac's painting. Did he alter the timeline when he went back to save the waitress? Did that action invalidate Isaac's vision of the future.

Well, we've seen that Hiro jumps timelines when he travels (no dead Isaac), so anything's possible.

As for the timelines shifting, the reason Ando would still recognize Hiro would be because six months ago, there would've been two Hiros: one in Japan just discovering his powers, and the other in Nevada bonding with Charlie.

This is why I hate time travel; it's impossible to tell whether something is an effect, a cause, an alternate timeline, or a pre-effect (since causality tends to flow both ways in hypertime).

Quote:
- Peter gets arrested. Boy is this going to be a mess. He is covered in blood, none of which is Jackie's, but she is dead and the small town will be looking to pin the murder on someone. Will Claire & her dad come forward to clear him? Will Nathan come to help him? How will it affect Nathan's chance at office?

There's gonna be a confrontation now between Claire & her father: all the cards are gonna be on the table. I'm hoping Claire will be able to explain the situation (and Isaac can vouch for Peter), so Mr. Bennet will step in. The arrest will be easy enough to "disappear." Nathan may never even find out.

Quote:
- What will the fallout be between Nathan and Pete for Nathan's attempt to destroy the painting? I think Pete will forgive him & understand why he did it, but it may serve to further widen the already existing gap between the brothers.

This'll be another confrontation. Peter may forgive him, but I can't see Nathan being reasonable; I think he's gonna end up being a bad guy. If he doesn't believe in Pete after what he's already seen, I doubt he ever will. He's too much of a politician.

He may end up being the "Senator Kelly" of this universe. I can see him pushing for mutant registration if it becomes a political hot button (which means Peter would become a liability since he could expose Nathan as a mutant himself --and we all know how politicians deal with liabilities).

Quote:
- Did Jessica really shoot DL? Guess we have to wait until next week for that.

Or March, given how fashionable mid-season hiatuses are these days.

I think it's clear enough that she shot him, but Nikki may have been able to make the shot go wide, or Micah's warning may have given DL enough time to ghost.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 6:39 AM

FRELLINGBLONDE

All I can say about last night's episode...DAMN! Loved it.

Peter and Claire have good chemistry. Better than he has with Simone, anyway.

Then again, he'd have better chemistry with a lamppost than with Simone...

Speaking of Peter, he better hope he can retain Claire's healing power for a while, because Nathan is gonna friggin' kill him.

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 2:41 PM

I think there's going to be bad blood between them on each side for different reasons. Peter would be pissed at Nathan for blotting out the image on the painting, and Nate would be angry at Peter over (what else) his political career.

Just out of curiosity, given that show is open to introduce new characters with different powers over it's course, what kind of poerson/power would you like to see?

Personally, I'd like to see a character that has a religious slant to him. One of the reasons I loved Nightcrawler in X2 was the fact that he had a spiritual clarity about his mutation. That he considered himself to be on something of a holy crusade. I'd like to see a character that has maybe either Claire's or Issac's power (either healing or predicting the future), but with Hiro's conviction (absolutely stoked that he's on a crusade and chosen above all to have this power) and considers his powers as God given, instead of the next part of human evolution. And if not their powers, than maybe a power that has deep religious connotations.

Maybe a partygoer whose popular since he can turn water into wine.

**************************************************
"We have five million Cybermen. How many are you?"
"Four"
You would destroy the Cybermen with four Daleks?"
"We would destroy the Cybermen with ONE Dalek. You are superior in only one respect."
"What is that?"
"You are better at dying."

Trash talk between a Cyberman and a Dalek. It doesn't get any better than that.

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 2:44 PM

Also, and I just realized. The big scene in this weeks ep when Peter and Claire are on the steps of the school. Does anyone else see the slight nod to classic cinema in that moment? Anyone whose taken Film 100 should know this.

**************************************************
"We have five million Cybermen. How many are you?"
"Four"
You would destroy the Cybermen with four Daleks?"
"We would destroy the Cybermen with ONE Dalek. You are superior in only one respect."
"What is that?"
"You are better at dying."

Trash talk between a Cyberman and a Dalek. It doesn't get any better than that.

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 7:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
Just out of curiosity, given that show is open to introduce new characters with different powers over it's course, what kind of poerson/power would you like to see?

I actually hope they reign in all these crazy powers. I would feel better if there was some rhyme and reason to the stuff, then that it appeared as if they were thinking it up on the cuff.

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
Also, and I just realized. The big scene in this weeks ep when Peter and Claire are on the steps of the school. Does anyone else see the slight nod to classic cinema in that moment? Anyone whose taken Film 100 should know this.

Maybe you could elaborate for those of us that aren’t familiar with Film 100.

I actually think I may have taken that course, but I’m equally sure I learned nothing.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 7:16 PM

It's a refrence to the famous "Odessa Steps" sequence in the Russian classic BATTLESHIP POTEMKIN. Anytime any film class brings up the Soviet style of montage, they always use this sequence as the textbook example. This sequence has been paid homage to in both BRAZIL and THE UNTOUCHABLES. But anytime you see in a movie soldiers marching down the steps of a government building with guns, a baby carriage bouncing down steps, or someone getting shot and the image of their head snapped back and their glasses shattered all over their face, that's an homage to that sequence.

The above is a link to that montage.

Would have been a bit cool if they actually recreated the famous montage for the show, but maybe that would have been taking it too far. Just the name Odessa is good enough homage.

I'm sorry. I'm such a film geek, and we're all geeks here, I just figured that everyone knew about the Odessa steps from BATTLESHIP POTEMKIN at least through cultural osmosis. Like how everyone knows that Rosebud's the sled, sorry if I ruined it for everyone.

**************************************************
"We have five million Cybermen. How many are you?"
"Four"
You would destroy the Cybermen with four Daleks?"
"We would destroy the Cybermen with ONE Dalek. You are superior in only one respect."
"What is that?"
"You are better at dying."

Trash talk between a Cyberman and a Dalek. It doesn't get any better than that.

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Thursday, November 23, 2006 3:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
Just out of curiosity, given that show is open to introduce new characters with different powers over it's course, what kind of poerson/power would you like to see?

I'd like to see a timid speedster.

Remember Guy, from Galaxy Quest? And how he knew that he was the token casualty who dies to show that the situation's serious?

You have any idea how many dead Flashes litter the DC multiverse? Becoming the Flash is like a death sentence.

So: a speedster who grew up reading comics --he remembers Crisis on Infinite Earths (dead Flash), the end of Impulse (dead Max Mercury), Infinite Crisis (another dead Flash), the JLU cartoon (dead Flash in an alternate timeline, dead Flash in the future), Kingdom Come (undead Flash). . . When he discovers his super speed he suddenly realizes that he may have drawn the short straw. . .

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, November 23, 2006 3:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by reginaroadie:
I'm sorry. I'm such a film geek, and we're all geeks here, I just figured that everyone knew about the Odessa steps from BATTLESHIP POTEMKIN at least through cultural osmosis. Like how everyone knows that Rosebud's the sled, sorry if I ruined it for everyone.

Sure, we’re all geeks, but don’t sell yourself short. Your knowledge of film is impressive. I know I don’t know this stuff, but I was happy to learn about the Odessa steps, which evidently is a critical piece of the puzzle in the symbolism of many movies/shows.

I know nothing about Film. Not for real. I’ve seen I,Robot, Serenity and Underworld about eight times each and I have all the Star Wars Movies on DVD, but I’ve never actually watched Citizen Kane or Battleship Potemkin. I did watch Birth of a Nation, although all I remember about it was incomprehensive scenes of men on horseback.

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Monday, November 27, 2006 6:14 PM

I had been wondering about this for some time, but evidently they are going to whack one of the Heroes. So who is it?

Nathan? He’s really only important as a vehicle to rattle Peter, on the other hand, he can fly. That's always cool.

Claire? She would seem to be the most unexpected, since presumably the show just made a big point of saving her. Yet, killing Claire seems like a real trick.

D.L.? Well, presumably he’s already dead, so this would be the other extreme on the unexpected scale.

Isaac? He really seems like a crucial character. His particular talent is really needed to foreshadow the plot. I can’t see him getting it.

Hiro? Also, pretty crucial to the story and we pretty much know he survives well into the future.

Not sure about the others.

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Monday, November 27, 2006 8:48 PM

SINGATE

Considering this episode was mostly backstory on things we already knew it was pretty damn good. Hiro's story just keeps getting better, it looks like he is unable to go back in order to fix things. At least we won't have some lame ass season ending do over.

My favorite bit in this episode was the introduction of Sylar. Hard to believe that he was set on that path simply by having someone tell him he might be special. Hopefully we will see more of his interactions with the professor. Anyone else notice the similarites between Sylar/Gabriel and a certain character who changed his name after turning to evil? You know the one...delusions of grandeur, desire for more power, overblown sense of entitlement. Anyone here who didn't already hate Sylar probably will now. I'm starting to like the guy. What I really want to see is how they plan on holding him. Also, why keep him alive in the first place? Mr. Bennett can't actually believe he is going to join that little band of misfits.

On a similar note, I wonder if Claire's dad is going to come clean after she tells him about her ability. Maybe he'll sign her up then send her off to mutie boot camp.

As I stated in another thread if someone is going to die I really want it to be Nikki. I still don't like her. So her ability was to absorb her dead sister's personality and presumbaly her super strength as well. Sounds a bit like Rogue(comic book not the movies) but without the charm. I wouldn't mind seeing Sylar break free then kill those two henchmen. I'm a bit sick of them as well. Unfortunately I don't usually get my way so I'm guessing that our friendly mind reading police officer is going to buy the farm.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Tuesday, November 28, 2006 6:09 AM

They shouldn't kill the Haitian yet; he's the only "wild card" left. We know nothing about his origin, backstory, or even his name. Note that he has the Symbol on his pendant; suggesting that he has some significance. Also note that the symbol seems to have originated with Chandra's research --so why is it hanging around the neck of one of Glasses' "X-team."

And I don't wanna see Eden go, I'm just starting to really like her.

Man, what an episode last night. Joss would've been proud; it went from making me laugh hard enough to choke (Hiro's "Back to the Future" moment: "Greatu Scott!!") to tearing my heart out (poor Charlie, poor Hiro).

I'm really confused at the time-alterations. As near as I can tell, there's the original timeline (where Hiro met Charlie in the present, she was eventually killed by Sylar, Hiro jumped back in time), and the new timeline (where Hiro went back 6 months, failed to save Charlie, and reflexively jumped back to the near-present [it must've been at least a few days ago, if he was able to grab a flight and catch up to Ando]). Of course, Hiro didn't do anything to accellerate the blood clot, so Charlie would still have been alive when Sylar arrived to kill her, regardless of timeline (so he'd now have photographic memory).

These are irreconcileable: in the new timeline, Charlie would've known Hiro when he arrived, as would everyone else in town. If the changing timeline "re-merged" (rewriting the "real" timeline), it could've rewritten everyone's memories, but Ando's own memories would've been rewritten as well.

It's very odd that Ando can still remember the original timeline. His exception requires some kind of conscious force --authorial intervention. Could that be Ando's power? Limited omniscience? An "untamperable" mind?

Whatever the reason, he's now a living, breathing "rift" between two timelines. He could very well start something catastrophic --something that would force Hiro to have to take out his best friend. . .

Maybe some kind of "Crisis" event (I know I've been joking about it thus far [about needing a speedster 'cause, y'know, it's not a Crisis without a dead Flash], but the time-travel has made me anxious --rewriting the past always has consequences). Of course, that diner is now the place where all the timelines are connected. If the "rift" is to be fixed, it'll likely need to be from there.

I have a feeling we'll be seeing Charlie again, even if only in Hiro's mind.

Oh, and the new comic's up: http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/novel_010.shtml,featuring Audrey's first face-to-face meeting with Sylar. The Easter Egg isn't much this week, just a "making of" picture from an earlier episode.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, November 28, 2006 6:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
These are irreconcileable: in the new timeline, Charlie would've known Hiro when he arrived, as would everyone else in town. If the changing timeline "re-merged" (rewriting the "real" timeline), it could've rewritten everyone's memories, but Ando's own memories would've been rewritten as well.

Well I think we can expect that history was rewritten. There is at least two things that evince this, first the picture of Hiro and Charlie which appeared following his going back in time and second a conversation that Ando had with one of the waitresses that suggested that the waitress was very familiar with Hiro, when in the previous timeline she had never met him. This means that memories were rewritten, including probably Ando’s.

We can assume, then that when Hiro and Ando arrived at the dinner, Charlie was already familiar with Hiro and probably wondering why he vanished into thin air 6 months earlier, and Hiro already knew that Charlie was going to get sylarated. The events that we saw in H1.8, no longer happened that way, yet clearly it would seem that the outcome was the same. Ando’s memory would be of the new timeline, which we can assume must have Hiro vanishing for several hours to possibly days.

It’s not necessarily the case that the timelines are irreconcilable, from Ando’s frame of reference. They could be, but we don’t know what the new timeline is, from Ando’s frame of reference. We can, however, be sure that the events in the dinner as depicted in episode 8, from everyone’s frame of reference except Hiro’s, never happened.

As for whether the events are irreconcilable from Hiro’s frame of reference:

Austin: So, Basil, if I travel back to 1969 and I was frozen in 1967, presumably, I could go back and look at my frozen self. But, if I'm still frozen in 1967, how could I have been unthawed in the '90s and traveled back to the '60s?
[goes cross-eyed]
Austin: Oh, no, I've gone cross-eyed.
Basil: I suggest you don't worry about those things and just enjoy yourself.
[to camera]
Basil: That goes for you all, too.
Austin: Yes.

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Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:12 PM

I don't think it's that complex. You know how in BACK TO THE FUTURE 2, when Doc and Marty came back to an alternate 1985. They still had their memories of their past lives.

The way I see it, there's no big continuity error the first time Hiro met Charlie. They're still in the original timeline. When Hiro transports back six months ago, that was the beginning of an alternate reality. And given that Ando's been with Hiro all this time, that makes Ando an unofficial time traveler, even though he has no abilities himself. So he'[d still have those memories of the past life.

And besides, what Hiro did was miniscule in the grand scheme of things. Charlie was going to die. But instead of her having the top of her head cut off while at work, she just decided to actually live her life before she died. And in the six months, she would have probably died by then. Just because there's a vigil at the restaurant doesn't mean that she was Sylerized (since we're calling it that). It means that she died.

All Hiro changed really was the way she died. That doesn't mean there'll be SOUND OF THUNDER like waves that'll transform the planet into a jungle. It just means that there'll be a small variation to the overall grand scheme of things.

I wasn't really thinking of the logics of the time travel in this ep. As far as time travel stories go, this show is actually really good in terms of following the rules of time travel. I love Hiro slamming the phone down as soon as he hears his past self answer. He's smart enough not to create a paradox.

I was geeking out more over the WATCHMAN refrence in the ep. How the villain was the son of a watchmaker, just like Dr. Manhattan was before he got de-atomized and blue. And as a 24 fan, I was slightly psyched to see the guy that played Adam from Day 3 cast as Sylar. At first I thought it was Sean, when he had the glasses on. That would have been a hell of career boost. To go from the most selfless hero in a low rated cult show, to the selfish villain of a highly rated cult show. Oh well, there's always the next one.

I still don't understand how Sylar attains their powers from their brains. Does he eat the brain, or do a mind meld, or does routine brain surgery on himself? I'm hoping that'll be answered soon.

Other things I picked up on that I liked. When Micha's grandfather caught him taking apart the laptop he bought. I could understand him getting angry over him taking apart a two thousand dollar piece of equipment, but shouldn't he have known by then that Micha's so smart that he was in the process of reverse engineering it to make the computer even better than before? Techies do this all the time, right? And I loved the moment that Nate discovers his powers just as he's driving home in a convertible and being chased by mobsters, and that look of helplessness on him as he's looking from above as the car carrying his wife slams into water barrels and paralyzes her. It really explains why he's in so much denial about his powers.

As for who dies, guess we'll have to wait and see.

**************************************************
"We have five million Cybermen. How many are you?"
"Four"
You would destroy the Cybermen with four Daleks?"
"We would destroy the Cybermen with ONE Dalek. You are superior in only one respect."
"What is that?"
"You are better at dying."

Trash talk between a Cyberman and a Dalek. It doesn't get any better than that.

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Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:59 PM

ROCKETJOCK

Okay, time paradox head butting time. Getting my Doc Brown geek on here...

Let's call the Charlie we saw in the earlier episode Charlie-one. Charlie-one's eidetic memory had only kicked in a couple of weeks earlier, and had never met Hiro before; she got to know him just a little when Sylar killed her.

So Hiro jumped back to try and prevent her death. Lets call the younger version of Charlie he met in the past time frame Charlie-two. Charlie-two's life diverged slightly from Charlie-one's at the point when Hiro entered her life prematurely. Firstly her eidetic memory began to manifest somewhat earlier (probably due to Hiro's gentle prodding), and then she fell in love with this boyishly charming Japanese geek. Perhaps if Hiro had been able to stay, she would have gone to Japan, and not been in Sylar's line of fire, preserving whatever days, weeks, or years she had left..

But then Hiro was forced back to the present before he'd given Charlie-two the exact date and circumstances of her death at Sylar's hands. She knew he came from October, and that he was worried that a bad man would hurt her, but he'd never given her the specifics -- probably waiting until he'd fully convinced her, so as not to further freak her out.

So Charlie-two decided to wait until Hiro returned. We can imagine the circumstances were slightly different--the Hiro she met in October hadn't traveled back in time yet, and was probably confused when people at the Burnt Toast Diner recognized him. But he probably still bonded to Charlie--just in time for her to be killed.

And so he went back in time six months to try and save her. The details are changed, but the general flow of events remains the same.

The factor nobody seems to be discussing is why did Hiro snap back to the present? Why did it happen at that exact instant, just as he was, perhaps, about to convince her to take action to preserve whatever days were left to her from Sylar?

I think it happened at that instant exactly because he was about to convince her. That would have led to a paradox, since the only reason he jumped back in time to save her in the first place was because she was killed. Time needed to protect itself from a paradox--so it removed him from the past, and shielded itself from his attempts to return.

So what do we know about the rules of time travel in this universe so far? Well...

1. We know Hiro can alter the past to some small extent -- because he appeared in Charlie's birthday photos, but only after his time jump.

2. We know he can alter an anticipated or predicted future, because he saved that Japanese schoolgirl from becoming road sushi.

3. But despite this, he cannot initiate a paradox without being exiled from the time he is attempting to alter. (This is probably the meaning of the "rift" future Hiro feared causing when he had his conversation with Peter.

And now, here's the $64.00 question: What about the potential fate of New York? Hiro saw the Big Apple get baked--if he stops this from happening, does that count as a paradox? Or does the fact that this event hasn't yet happened (in an absolute sense) exempt them from being a paradox?

"Oh dear, my eyes have gone all crossed..."

"Time Paradoxes give me migraines." -- Captain Kathryn Janeway

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Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:13 PM

ROCKETJOCK

Oh, and a P.S.: Since in either timeline Sylar apparently consumed Charlie's brain, we can assume he now has eidetic memory--but does he also have her aneurysm? Granted, that normally wouldn't happen through cannibalism of brain tissue--but hell, who knows what the rules are in this case?

(It's noteworthy that in the real world, freak savant abilities sometimes pop up in people with cranial blood clots--a kind of "I burn my candle at both ends" effect. Could there be a connection here?)

"She's tore up plenty. But she'll fly true." -- Zoë Washburn

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Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:18 PM

Interesting theory, but there's one thing that you didn't mention that could alter the validity of the theory.

We know for a fact that there's a vigil for Charlie in the Burnt Toast. What we don't know is if after Hiro went back in time to save her, if she died because of Sylar chopping the top of her head off, or if she finally succumbed to the blood clot in her brain. So for all we know, he did convince her and she did take that trip to Japan and was nowhere near Sylar when she died.

With that in mind, whether or not Hiro fucked things up royally for the future is still up for discussion. As for "Can he stop NYC from being blown up?", I think it's more of a group thing. That the rest of the season is going to be the characters all finally coming together in a room and figuring out an attack plan to keep NYC from blowing up. He'll play a big part in it for sure, but as to whether he and he alone determines the fate of the world, I'm not sure.

**************************************************
"We have five million Cybermen. How many are you?"
"Four"
You would destroy the Cybermen with four Daleks?"
"We would destroy the Cybermen with ONE Dalek. You are superior in only one respect."
"What is that?"
"You are better at dying."

Trash talk between a Cyberman and a Dalek. It doesn't get any better than that.

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Wednesday, November 29, 2006 4:42 AM

STEGASAURUS

Well, we know that Sylar still killed Charlie, because Ando explains the situation to Peter Pattrelli. So she was definitely killed by Sylar. Twist top removed, contents emptied. Sorry Charlie.

As to why Hiro can never stop something that already happened, if you ever saw the remake of "The Time Machine" you've already got your answer. The reason he can't stop it, is because IT is the reason he went back in the first place. Take away that incident, there's no reason to go back.

Now, given this type of thoery, I have no doubt at some time in the future the writers of the show will likely bend the rules to explain something else later on, but that's called creative license and I'm willing ot accept it without losing any sleep.

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Wednesday, November 29, 2006 1:40 PM

TERRI

No, maybe, okay, so maybe Sylar didn't kill Charlie. Think about it, she has that whole brain thingie, right? All we know is that Charlie is dead. Maybe Ando's memories didn't change with everyone else's for some reason, okay? So, where does that leave us? With a still dead Charlie. But I don't think that the point was to save Charlie. Oh, no. I think that the point was for Hiro to learn something. That something being that sometimes things just happen. You go back in time, you try to change it, and sometimes things just end up being the way that they are. Yeah right, you say, that's the stupidest thing I ever heard. But think about it, so Hiro has this ability, why doesn't the future (cool samurai) him just go back and save Claire, or save Charlie for that matter or whatever once he gets his time traveling powers under control? I think he learns something in addition to this lesson about fussing around with the space time continuum, and is reasonably happy with the way things turn out. Also, I would like it noted that since Hiro shows up from the future he can't obviously be the one that dies next week. Or two weeks from now or whenever the frick this new ep is coming on. I hate this mid-season breaks! They didn't used to do that so much, did they. Lost isn't going to be back for like 12 weeks or something. Ugh.

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Wednesday, November 29, 2006 6:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:
I think it happened at that instant exactly because he was about to convince her. That would have led to a paradox, since the only reason he jumped back in time to save her in the first place was because she was killed. Time needed to protect itself from a paradox--so it removed him from the past, and shielded itself from his attempts to return.

I took a slightly different interpretation. I think it occurred to Hiro at that moment that nothing he could do would accomplish his purpose. He accepted that he couldn’t save her, and so it wasn’t time that kicked Hiro out of the past, but rather Hiro lost his will to continue trying to save Charlie and slipped back to his own timeline.

Also I think Hiro probably did tell Charlie enough information to save her, and that information subsequently created a timeline in which Charlie has a fatal aneurysm. So in that regard, I would say that time was trying to protect itself from a paradox, but not by exiling Hiro, rather by protecting the point of intersection of the two timelines. So if Hiro had stayed in that timeline and discovered a cure for Charlie’s aneurysm, she would have been hit by car, or toilet seat would fall on her, or in some way died.

Quote:
Originally posted by RocketJock:
And now, here's the $64.00 question: What about the potential fate of New York? Hiro saw the Big Apple get baked--if he stops this from happening, does that count as a paradox? Or does the fact that this event hasn't yet happened (in an absolute sense) exempt them from being a paradox?

I think perhaps that’s why Hiro recruited Peter instead of trying to fix things himself. Future Hiro, much more adept at his powers, has figured out ways of changing the future by using proxies to avoid a paradox.

Also, Mr. Bennett has become one of my favorite characters. Does that make me a bad person?

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Thursday, November 30, 2006 7:02 AM

TERRI

You're totally evil. You know I still people on the fence about how evil Claire's dad really is. I mean, I call him DD (Devil Dad) for short, but somebody was telling me, well, he's only doing what any dad would do. If you think about it, technically, he hasn't really done anything (to my memory) completely unforgivable. Now, I can hear you now, but if you have kids (or imagine you do) think about the links to which you would go to see them safe. The most of the things that he [bold]has[/bold] done were for Claire's behalf. Other stuff, not so much maybe? Anyway, what really is this creepy vibe we're getting from him? I know it's intentional on the writers behalf. But maybe we're going to find that Claire's dad isn't so sinister after all. Or there are even more sinister forces at work.

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Thursday, November 30, 2006 9:24 AM

Claire's dad is almost certainly working for someone. He's likely not doing the whole "tag-and-release" thing on his own initiative (recruiting Isaac in response to the "Save the Cheerleader" mission, OTOH, most likely was his own idea --probably using his position for personal gain in an emergency).

Of course, guys who run paper factories aren't known for being big conspiracy figures, so his whole life right now might be a cover story.

Something about him makes me think "government contacts." He just has this whole Cigarette-Smoking-Man mystique about him.

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, November 30, 2006 6:50 PM

Mr. Bennett may share the Cigarette-Smoking Man’s mystery, but not his personality. CSM was a melancholy, isolated and pitiless man. Mr. Bennett is none of those things. He has a family that he genuinely appears to love, and he’s not without a degree of concern for his ‘subject.’ Certainly, abducting people to do experiments on them is one of those things that make people’s skin crawl, so he’s no saint, but he doesn’t seem to have any intent to cause harm to people, and it may be that there is a good reason for what he’s doing. He didn’t hurt Parkman, and he seemed genuinely concerned for Isaac, even though he did effectively force drugs on him. And ultimately, his concern for his daughter is really a strong motivator for sympathy. It’s really hard to hate a man whose actions, whether good or bad, are driven by a genuine and credible concern for his daughter’s safety.

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Friday, December 1, 2006 12:38 PM

FELIXDACAT

For most of this first season, I've been on the fence with this series. The first 4 or 5 episodes, the pace was so tedious, it barely gave me a reason to keep watching. But the past 3 episodes have been well worth the wait.
The show still lacks the effortless humor and creativity of Firefly, but I'm into it now. And it appears it will actually make it to a season 2.
The voice over said "a hero will die". If you want to be technical, this means a main character goes bye bye. But voice overs are rarely that exact.
I'm guessing it means that someone with powers of some kind will die. If that is the case that I'm voting for radioactive man. BTW, radioactive man may also be responsible for the big boom in Manhattan, which could also be the mentioned cliffhanger.
The dead person may also be Ando. He may not have powers but he's a hero to Hiro (that can't be right).
Nikki/Jessica is too good a character to off. It doesn't matter if you like her or not because you want to watch her. The same with Nathan although I doubt he will stay a good guy.
And no way will it be Claire. There has to be a future story line between her and Peter, just a whole lot of chemistry.

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Friday, December 1, 2006 1:30 PM

PDCHARLES

What happened? He see your face?

Quote:
Originally posted by felixdacat:
I'm voting for radioactive man. BTW, radioactive man may also be responsible for the big boom in Manhattan, which could also be the mentioned cliffhanger.

Same thing I have been thinking after I saw Isaac's last painting. uhhh A flame guy? Is this radioactive boy? Or is it Peter who absorbed his powers? Is this how he saves the world? Hmmmmmm... BOOM!

Is the "Save the Cheerleader" deal the start of a chain reaction of introductions. Peter gets questioned by the FBI which in turn causes him to meet Matt, Audrey and Radioactive guy.

EDIT: Oh yeah, whats the deal with Sylar being Patient Zero? Did I miss something?

latest vid

the lyrics http://www.greenplastic.com/lyrics/lucky.php

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Tuesday, December 5, 2006 6:52 AM

And that brings us to the mid-season finale. Should be back in just over a month, with a certain new actor (not that that'll make the wait any easier). Maybe the comic will continue.

We got some answers this week, but more questions were raised: Just what is the Haitian's agenda? Who is Bennet really working for? Why is Peter suddenly getting sick? Where are his visions coming from?

The powers have also become confused: it's now starting to look like Bennet's the one who can jam peoples' abilities (why Sylar couldn't attack him), while the Haitian is just a memory-wiper. But that still doesn't account for Matt's reaction in the bar; Bennet wasn't there when he failed to read the Haitian.

I'm gonna miss Eden, I really liked her character. Lot of complexity and back-story. At least she managed to prevent Sylar from stealing her power.

It also looks like Hiro might have lost his powers (according to his latest blog entry, at least: http://blog.nbc.com/hiro_blog/

I'm really excited about that dinosaur though. And Hiro's reaction: "I've got to find that sword."

This week's comic is about the fallout from the death, and shows us that Sylar is still in custody. http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/novel_011.shtml

The Easter Egg is the Explody-man:

Interestingly, note the name of the JPG: energy man. Is it possible this isn't Ted or Peter melting down as we've been assuming?

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, December 5, 2006 8:43 AM

SINGATE

I think Sylar is still shamming if he remains in custody. If he was able to pull Eden through the glass I have to believe he could have walked at any time. I wonder if he will still be able to take Eden's power. Does he need the brain completely intact or just certain parts in order to extract whatever it is he takes?

The whole thing with Peter's illness may have something to do with Matt's headaches and nosebleed. Either there is a deeper connection between the two or the use of their abilities is having adverse effects on their brains. I am clueless with regards to Peter's sudden ability to see the future. I do have a theory on how he might cause the big boom. So far he seems comfortable when he absorbs other abilities, at times he seems more adept than those he borrows from. Maybe he is going to absorb a power that is beyond his control and he will just lose it. That whole vision he had was a bit strange. No one in the whole city except for the main characters, also what's up with Claire wearing the cheerleader outfit?

I liked how some of the heroes were finally brought together. Most notably Hiro/Issac and Peter/Matt. The interogation scene was quite interesting. I've read some posts noting the chemistry between Peter and Claire. Isn't she supposed to be about 15 years old? He must be in his early to mid-twenties. Can't see anything developing there.

Finally I'm thrilled to see the show is coming back on January 22nd. When those promos were running last week about how there wouldn't be any new episodes until next year I had visions of a 6 month hiatus ala BSG.

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Tuesday, December 5, 2006 11:16 AM

Logicaly, Sylar would need whatever part of the brain serves as the "trigger." Note how alarmed he looked when Eden was about to shoot herself. Plus the comic suggests that Sylar & the Haitian arrived with tranqs before he managed to get anything out of her skull.

I'm guessing Matt's nosebleed comes from trying to override whatever was done to his memory. A lot of live-action shows use nosebleeds as shorthand for "I'm about to have a neural aneurism."

And yeah, Peter has something of a learning curve with certain powers. Ted's power seems to be uncontrolled, so it'd make sense that Peter wouldn't be able to suppress it.

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, December 5, 2006 11:51 AM

STORYMARK

I think Matt's nosebleed was from trying to push through the Haitian's interference - remember that was 1: the first time that Matt conciously tried to penetrate the block (knowing that he was being blocked), and 2: the first time he tried to scan without the Haitian knowing that Matt was trying to scan.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, December 5, 2006 12:28 PM

DAYVE

ok, so having been told by my 8th grade english teacher that there are no stupid questions - let me toss this one out there... Just how do you think Sylar 'extracts' the power from the brains of the special people..? are we all thinking the same thing...? a kind of Hannibal Lecter deal or what...?

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Tuesday, December 5, 2006 1:06 PM

LIGHTMEDARK

I thinke he studies the brain...he said that he could always tell how things worked which is why he was good at fixing time pieces. I think he just examines them and gleans just how to get that person's power to work somewhat instinctively.

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Wednesday, December 6, 2006 3:18 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Matt's nosebleed was from straining to read past the interference that the Haitian seems to keep up around himself & Mr Bennett.

I think Sylar was not able to us his powers to escape before because the Haitian was around to supress his "trigger". It is not Bennett that can throw up that telepathic static. Remember in the police station when Matt was trying to read Claire & her father? The Haitian was right around the corner from the interrogation room. He was the one creating the static.

Eden's sacrifice to prevent Sylar taking her gift was noble. I didn't expect her to be the one to die. Still, I would rather see her go then one of the main characters. I wonder why her power of suggestion did not work on Sylar. Perhaps he already absorbed another gift that prevented Eden's power from working.

How is it that Peter has these visions? That must be a part of his power. I still don't believe that Peter is actually the one who explodes. Remember he had the dream of flying on last week's episode & being in the car accident that led to his sister in law being in the wheelchair. It was Nathan who flew and watched the accident happen, yet Peter dreamed of it. That happened long before any contact with any hero except his brother. So, visions, or precognition, seems to be Peter's gift. He seems to get these visions from the perspective of one person or another, not necessarily his own. I still think it is Radioactive Man that is going to blow.

So, was anyone else interested in how the story is proceeding w/ Niki & her other persona Jessica. Looks like she is turning herself into the cops in order to protect DL & Micca. Still not sure exactly how she is going to work into the bigger storyline, control her "power", or if she will simply become a bad guy.

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Wednesday, December 6, 2006 4:36 AM

DEEPGIRL187

I don't think Hiro has lost his powers. With the picture that Isaac painted, it implies that he goes into the past at some point in the future (since he hasn't done it as of yet).

As for Peter, it's possible that his vision of the future is a leftover from absorbing Isaac's power. Perhaps Isaac can not only paint the future, but will eventually be able to have visions on his own. And perhaps Peter doing more than temporarily absorbing the abilities of others.

*sigh*

A month and sixteen days to go...

*************************************************

"So long and goodnight."

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Wednesday, December 6, 2006 4:44 AM

DERANGEDMILK

I don't think Hiro has lost his powers either. He failed in his mission and someone he cared about died, his heart was just a little broken is all.

I'm not sure how Peter had those visions either although its certainly a possibilty that he could be the exploding man. If they all try to stop radioactive dude and peter ends up absorbing his power some how and the can't control it....well.....boom. The show has already made it clear once that you can't change the future (Re: Hiro unable to stop the death of....of....that one girl who wasn't around long enough for me to learn her name).
-e

"Storms getting worse."
"We'll pass through it soon enough."

Vote for Firefly at http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/index.html

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Wednesday, December 6, 2006 6:19 AM

Also note that in last week's episode, when Claire mangled her hand, it didn't heal at first, when her father was around. It was only after he left her presence (at the hospital, after getting the bandage on) that her hand closed up.

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, December 6, 2006 10:46 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
I don't think Hiro has lost his powers. With the picture that Isaac painted, it implies that he goes into the past at some point in the future (since he hasn't done it as of yet).

As for Peter, it's possible that his vision of the future is a leftover from absorbing Isaac's power. Perhaps Isaac can not only paint the future, but will eventually be able to have visions on his own. And perhaps Peter doing more than temporarily absorbing the abilities of others.

*sigh*

A month and sixteen days to go...

I agree. Hiro has not lost his abilities. We see he has them in the future when he travels back to speak to Peter on the subway. I think it more likely that his emotions for Charley caused him to teleport to Japan/present and miss the chance to save her. It could also have something to do with a lack of control & experience with his powers. As Deepgirl pointed out he appears to travel to the past and face a T-Rex at some point with his sword. I am also not certain that his explaination of time keeping him from changing it is accurate. He has already affected the past and future in a couple of instances with his time travel.

As for Peter, I do not think his "visions" are a leftover of his contact with Isaac. Remember that he had his vision of his brother's accident 6 months before even meeting Isaac. More likely this is some manifestation of his own power.

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Wednesday, December 6, 2006 10:50 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Also note that in last week's episode, when Claire mangled her hand, it didn't heal at first, when her father was around. It was only after he left her presence (at the hospital, after getting the bandage on) that her hand closed up.

That was six months ago my friend & I don't think it has anything to do with her father. It could be that her marker, or trigger if you prefer, may not have become active until after the injury. She was obviously as shocked as her father when she removed the bandage.

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Wednesday, December 6, 2006 11:35 AM

STOWEAWAY

Isn't it possible that Peter is sick because he absorbed powers from Sylar when he grabbed him at the school?
Mr. Bennett told Sylar that he had altered his own DNA so much that it was making him psychotic. Perhaps it's an overload for Peter too.
Might be what's jamming his "visions". Could also be that he's taken on too many from Sylar, Claire and Matt in a short time.
I was more intrigued by the demeanor of all the other Heroes as they watched Peter start to "light up" in his vision. But Nathan kept walking straight towards him. Anybody's thoughts on that?

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Wednesday, December 6, 2006 8:35 PM

SINGATE

Quote:
Originally posted by Stoweaway:
Isn't it possible that Peter is sick because he absorbed powers from Sylar when he grabbed him at the school?
Mr. Bennett told Sylar that he had altered his own DNA so much that it was making him psychotic. Perhaps it's an overload for Peter too.
Might be what's jamming his "visions". Could also be that he's taken on too many from Sylar, Claire and Matt in a short time.
I was more intrigued by the demeanor of all the other Heroes as they watched Peter start to "light up" in his vision. But Nathan kept walking straight towards him. Anybody's thoughts on that?

Nice piece of analysis. I was also thinking some of Peter's illness may be attributed to his contact with Sylar. It is unlikely he could deal with the alterations Sylar has visited upon himself. As to your question perhaps Nathan feels that Peter is his responsiblity and will attempt to fly the both of them away before he goes critical.

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We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Wednesday, December 6, 2006 10:40 PM

SWEETSERENDIPITY

Has anyone realized that the actor playing Ando was in Firefly? His first credit listed is as a bartender in Bushwacked.

Deb

http://serendipityagain.com/

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Thursday, December 7, 2006 3:47 AM