Star Trek: Nemisis...? Another Trek discussion thread by chrisisall

Quote:
Originally posted by LittleAlbatross29:

The only thing I liked was Troy & Riker getting married..it was about time!

That was the highlight of the film for me. Also, it looked nice. But it was so devoid of real Trek spirit IMO...I did like 5 better, now that you mention it. And I liked Insurrection WAAAAY better.

Been cool, plowin' through my new Buffy slim sets...

Geeky Chrisisall

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Tuesday, May 8, 2007 1:28 PM

LITTLEALBATROSS29

Ohh Buffy ! Shiny

Is it your first time seing it or are you re-watching the series ?

I am & now in the middle of Angel season 4 ..but that's for another thread

I completely forgot about Insurrection..I liked it..but thought it was kind of slow compared to the first 2 Next Gen movies..and also there was the matter of that pesky WAR with the Dominion during that time frame..I would've thought the Enterprise would be front & center for that instead of dealing with some remote planet's troubles....

Bryce
********

The only thing I knew how to do was to keep on keepin' on like a bird that flew,tangled up in blue.

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Tuesday, May 8, 2007 1:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by LittleAlbatross29:
Ohh Buffy ! Shiny Is it your first time seing it or are you re-watching the series ?

I am & now in the middle of Angel season 4 ..but that's for another thread

I completely forgot about Insurrection..I liked it..but thought it was kind of slow compared to the first 2 Next Gen movies..

First time w/the slim sets; seen it all before with the fold outs.

Never saw Angel 3 or 4 though...

I really loved Insurrection; I thought it was a perfect episode- though somewhat smallish for a theatrical motion picture.

Buffymania Chrisisall

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Tuesday, May 8, 2007 1:54 PM

LITTLEALBATROSS29

I thnnk that was it exactly ! It just wans't an intense enough story for a whole movie..but it would have made a great episode !

Bryce
**********

The only thing I knew how to do was to keep on keepin' on like a bird that flew,tangled up in blue.

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Tuesday, May 8, 2007 3:57 PM

Personally, I loved Nemesis. The Picard/Shinzon free-will/fate dynamic is the very core of what Star Trek means.

Granted, there were a few narrative flubs (Worf's return to the Enterprise, Data's one-person transporter, Wesley's deleted presence at the wedding), but the novels reliably fixed most of them.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, May 9, 2007 7:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Personally, I loved Nemesis. The Picard/Shinzon free-will/fate dynamic is the very core of what Star Trek means.

Did you think it was better than Generations? Did you like it better than First Contact?
And doesn't B4 contradict NG's final ep?

Tell me more Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 9, 2007 7:40 AM

STORYMARK

I hated Nemesis. Terrible, lazy re-hash of Wrath of Khan.

Here's a funny site that pretty much sums up every idiodic decision in that film:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Nemesis/Pictorial-1.html

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, May 9, 2007 7:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by LittleAlbatross29:
I hated Nemesis with a passion..it was worse than Star-Trek 5.

The only thing I liked was Troy & Riker getting married..it was about time!Otherwise it was painful experience to watch.

I loved Generations though..it was well done in every way..it stayed true to the story & the characters I had grown to love.

I also loved first Contact..it was one of the best Trek movies ever..

I agree on all points.

What i hated most of all about Nemesis is that they killed of Data and replaced him with a sad sorry android named B4 whom they found strewn on a scarsly inhabited planet. What a plothole!!

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Wednesday, May 9, 2007 11:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Did you think it was better than Generations? Did you like it better than First Contact?

Generations was basically "the first TNG movie." It was great at the time, but without that gimmick, it's just okay.

First Contact I loved, just because of the Borg (and because it represents the last time the Borg were written well).

I thought Insurrection was fun, and don't really require my movies to be more than that. One of the things about Trekkies that most annoys me is how so many of them seem to have lost anything resembling a sense of humour.

Nemesis wins for finally showing us the Remans (who we've been hearing about since TOS), doing the evil-clone thing better than most (yes, it's an old gimmick, but what isn't?!?), and providing a solid conclusion to that chapter of the Enterprise's life. Not to everything, just that chapter. Like when DS9 ended, yet the station was still there, most of the characters were still alive, and embarking on new and exciting adventures.

It also fits almost seamlessly into the ongoing drama that is the Romulan Empire:

Way back in TNG, Spock predicted that the Romulan Empire had, at most, 200 years before it succumbed to social strife and collapsed. Then the Dominion War happened, and Romulans --for the first time in recent memory-- started going outside their safe, self-contained little feifdom.

As with the Crusades on Earth, those Romulan (and Reman) soldiers were exposed to different cultures, different ways of understanding the world, and different sets of ideals. They eventually returned home with new ideas, which is the single most dangerous thing a fascist empire can face.

Then there's Shinzon's coup, an ensuing power vacuum, and now (in the novels), a civil war between Donatra's military faction and Praetor Tal'Aura's traditionalists.

Quote:

And doesn't B4 contradict NG's final ep?

You mean the Q-created alternate future, in which the Enterprise-D was still around? That was contradicted by Generations.

If Star Trek has taught me anything, it's that nothing is set in stone. Time is fluid. With the right combination of skill, intelligence, wisdom, and stubborn determination, you can change the future.

And the past.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tinadoll:
they killed of Data and replaced him with a sad sorry android named B4 whom they found strewn on a scarsly inhabited planet. What a plothole!!

That is not a plothole.

It's fairly evident that Shinzon planted the B4's body on that world, knowing that Enterprise would eventually find it. B4 was a Trojan horse.

The only thing that resembles a plothole is where Shinzon got the B4, but the movie is clear that Shinzon is reasonably well-travelled (he led the Remans during the Dominion War), and could easily have stumbled over a Soong-type android (as the novels say he did).

And there's little concrete evidence that the B4 will ever replace Data. Not without a massive systemic overhaul, and the only people who knew positronic systems that well are both dead (Geordie is good, but he'd be the first to tell you he's no Noonian Soong).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, May 9, 2007 5:22 PM

Cybersnark, you just made me determined to purchase my copy of Nemisis for (as Nomad put it) re-eval-uation.
A most detailed post- thanks!

Trekkie Chrisisall

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 4:12 AM

CS- You are waaaay too observant.

Also, i may add. The tactic of killing and bringing back a main character reeks of Star Trek 2 and 3

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 5:13 AM

DUG

Wow.

That was...interesting. I had actually managed to block all memories of Nemesis. I saw that crap in the theater and didn't remember the first thing about it, I had to go through the whole webpage you linked to to remember the pain of it.

That said, wasn't Insurrection (the episode masquerading as a movie) the one where when Worf is asked what brought him to the Enterprise they turn down his mike and have Geordie talk nonsense instead of answering? And wasn't it the one where no one even mentions his wife recently dying, or was that a different one?

Need your clock cleaned? home.windstream.net/clockdug

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 6:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Tinadoll:
The tactic of killing and bringing back a main character reeks of Star Trek 2 and 3

And mythology (paging Osiris, Hercules, and Jesus).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 6:38 AM

Well in the Trek verse it has been done by Spock.

I do not see another TNG movie in the future

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 7:50 AM

SPACEMANSPIFF76

ive been out of the trek loop for too long now to know most of what yall are saying. but i do know this. i hated the enterprise "E" version since the moment they unveiled it. in ST10, they totaled it. it was shot to shreds and they rammed it into shinzon's ship. it was half gone. i though yay they finally got rid of that POS spaceship. and the final scene is that they are in spacsedock being rebuilt? no! you trashed it! get a new one!

also, there will be a star tek 11. its being directed by JJ Abramson of Alias. they havent released any details yet though.

http://www.startrek.com/
look for movies.

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 7:53 AM

What?

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 9:18 AM

CRUITHNE3753

Saw a couple of original Trek eps las Friday night (on BBC2 in the UK after 11pm??!!). Just what was Rodenberry thinking with all those garish bright primary colours? Looks like a party in a child's paint box set to me now.

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 9:53 AM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN

Quote:
Originally posted by Cruithne3753:
Saw a couple of original Trek eps las Friday night (on BBC2 in the UK after 11pm??!!). Just what was Rodenberry thinking with all those garish bright primary colours? Looks like a party in a child's paint box set to me now.

Clearly, you missed the sixties, young one.

Garish Chrisisall

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 10:04 AM

DUG

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Cruithne3753:
Saw a couple of original Trek eps las Friday night (on BBC2 in the UK after 11pm??!!). Just what was Rodenberry thinking with all those garish bright primary colours? Looks like a party in a child's paint box set to me now.
Clearly, you missed the sixties, young one.

Garish Chrisisall

He was thinking "hmmm...color tv's are still not anymore standard than plasma screens will be in 2007, so I'd better pick a color scheme that will work on black and white sets as well."

From what I understand they even had a filter they could hold up and look through to make sure that the colors on set would make a good scene in black and white before they turned on the cameras. Makes sense if you think of the market of the day.

Need your clock cleaned? home.windstream.net/clockdug

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 10:17 AM

CRUITHNE3753

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Clearly, you missed the sixties, young one.

I used to enjoy Trek more, it's just looking back after seeing the likes of Firefly and BSG. Shifted paradigms and all that.

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 11:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpacemanSpiff76:
ive been out of the trek loop for too long now to know most of what yall are saying. but i do know this. i hated the enterprise "E" version since the moment they unveiled it. in ST10, they totaled it. it was shot to shreds and they rammed it into shinzon's ship. it was half gone. i though yay they finally got rid of that POS

I love that ship, WAY better than that piece of crap D, I cried when they rammed shinzon.

Why is the rum always gone?

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 12:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Guywhowantsafireflyofhisown:

I love that ship, WAY better than that piece of crap D, I cried when they rammed shinzon.

I liked E too.
But my heart belongs to 1701 from TMP.

NCC Chrisisall

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 1:05 PM

FREDGIBLET

Quote:
Originally posted by SpacemanSpiff76:
also, there will be a star tek 11. its being directed by JJ Abramson of Alias. they havent released any details yet though.

I heard it was supposed to be a prequel to TOS, dealing with Kirk and Spock at the academy.

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 1:12 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Cruithne3753:
Saw a couple of original Trek eps las Friday night (on BBC2 in the UK after 11pm??!!). Just what was Rodenberry thinking with all those garish bright primary colours? Looks like a party in a child's paint box set to me now.
Clearly, you missed the sixties, young one.

Garish Chrisisall

Hey I liked my Spock sort of greenish!

---- plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose

Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre, Owner of a too big Turnippy smelling coat with MR scratched in the neck (thanks FollowMal!)

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

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Thursday, May 10, 2007 6:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:

Hey I liked my Spock sort of greenish!

All that copper....

Bloodwork Chrisisall

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Saturday, May 12, 2007 5:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by fredgiblet:
Quote:
Originally posted by SpacemanSpiff76:
also, there will be a star tek 11. its being directed by JJ Abramson of Alias. they havent released any details yet though.

I heard it was supposed to be a prequel to TOS, dealing with Kirk and Spock at the academy.

Gonna suck. Sorry.

Like Flintstone Kids Chrisisall

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Saturday, May 12, 2007 6:14 AM

Yeah. It'll fall into the same "when they were teens" trap that got Smallville.

Expect all of the TOS regulars to show up (as teenagers), and they'll either end up on the Enterprise or on some other ship that they'll "randomly" name Enterprise.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Saturday, May 12, 2007 6:28 AM

Excuse me...EXCUSE ME

The 1701 D was a work of Art! All the Galaxy Class ships were works of art. And it was the flagship of the federation

The "E" looks like a rehash of the old Constitution class vessels. The "D" was unique!

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Saturday, May 12, 2007 7:28 AM

FREDGIBLET

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Gonna suck. Sorry.

Like Flintstone Kids Chrisisall

Probably, luckily I'm not a foaming-at-the-mouth trekkie so I don't really care.

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Saturday, May 12, 2007 8:54 AM

SPACEMANSPIFF76

my favourite version of the enterprise was the B, excelsior class. it has an art deco look to it. but my favourite overall, of all the trek ships, had to be the oberth class. im less of a warriour myself, i go for the pure science vessels.

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Sunday, May 13, 2007 3:26 AM

CRUITHNE3753

Actually I like the NX-01, mainly because the interiors felt more chunkily realistic and less like a cheap hotel lobby constructed from MDF.

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Monday, May 14, 2007 5:35 AM

SPACEMANSPIFF76

i hadnt thought of it that way but your right. but i dont like how they came up with the design for nx-01. the took an akira class vessel from the nextgen set and inverted the tail section. akiras have the warp engines hanging below, and the nx-01 has them pointing above. very unoriginal.

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Monday, May 14, 2007 5:40 AM

I liked Voyager; a little bad-a*s version of the Enterprise.

Tuvokisall

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Monday, May 14, 2007 5:47 AM

RIVER6213

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Did they go out on an okay note, or a worse one than they started out on, cinematically speaking?

Curious red shirt Chrisisall

No they didn't. Nemesis was pretty bad, and all the actors should have at least made an effort and exercised a little before they started shooting the movie. Picard looked like he needed to be in a wheel chair and the make up job on him was really noticeable. Data was an oily-faced, fat mother fucker. Geordi looked like he ordered way too many hotwing buckets down at Bill's Hotwing & Brew House, and everyone else looked and acted like they didn't know their lines.

The plot was stupid and boring. The whole story was bland and empty, and the ending was retarded. No, Nemesis went out in a very disappointing way and it was also on my list of forgettable movies. I found Star Trek 5 way more interesting and entertaining than Nemesis. This should give you an idea just how much I disliked this movie.

Star Trek Generations went out very good. It left you with a fresh sense of hope for the next generation of Star Trek movies,and it's legacy. It also prepared you for the next movies to come where you would gladly spend your hard earned money just to be lost in another world for 2 hours.

-River

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Monday, May 14, 2007 5:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:

Nemesis was pretty bad, and all the actors should have at least made an effort and exercised a little before they started shooting the movie. Picard looked like he needed to be in a wheel chair and the make up job on him was really noticeable. Data was an oily-faced, fat mother fucker. Geordi looked like he ordered way too many hotwing buckets down at Bill's Hotwing & Brew House, and everyone else looked and acted like they didn't know their lines.

The plot was stupid and boring. The whole story was bland and empty, and the ending was retarded. No, Nemesis went out in a very disappointing way and it was also on my list of forgettable movies.

LOL, don't mince words, River, tell me what you really think.

Crudely, if honestly, stated.

Thanks for the imput; I just may pass on getting it...
WTF, if I REALLY liked it at all, I would already own it.

Crude Chrisisall

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Monday, May 14, 2007 6:02 AM

RIVER6213

Oh, I forgot to add..

My favorite Star Trek Universe ship is the one they used in the Star Trek the Motion picture. Enterprise-A I think. Also, I still like the one they used in the original series.

I hated the Enterprise-D that they used in the TNG series. It looked like a child's toy that should have been floating around in the bath tub right along with a yellow ducky.

-River

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Monday, May 14, 2007 6:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:

My favorite Star Trek Universe ship is the one they used in the Star Trek the Motion picture. Enterprise-A I think. Also, I still like the one they used in the original series.

With you on both counts.

Quote:

I hated the Enterprise-D that they used in the TNG series. It looked like a child's toy that should have been floating around in the bath tub right along with a yellow ducky.

Hahahah, well, while I don't HATE it, I was never fond of it's clunky design much.

My God Bones, what have I done?
You've DOOMED us to ever uglier ships, Captain-Sir. Chrisisall

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Monday, May 14, 2007 8:29 AM

STORYMARK

My favorite Enterprise would likely be a tie between the D and E versions, with A following closely behind.

My favorite Federation ships in general would be The Reliant, and the Defiant.

In non-federation ships, the Klingon Bird of Prey (movies and Next Gen version) was awsome.

And Nemesis sucked.... bad. The only Trek DVD I regret paying for.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, May 14, 2007 9:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

And Nemesis sucked.... bad. The only Trek DVD I regret paying for.

Okay, I can hover with that (So...is Fantastic Four better than Nemisis, hmmm?

)

Heh heh Chrisisall

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Monday, May 14, 2007 10:10 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

And Nemesis sucked.... bad. The only Trek DVD I regret paying for.

Okay, I can hover with that (So...is Fantastic Four better than Nemisis, hmmm?)

Heh heh Chrisisall

Yes.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, May 15, 2007 10:56 AM