Star Trek : Nemesis...a second look. by chrisisall

OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

Star Trek : Nemesis...a second look.

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Sunday, August 26, 2007 04:37
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VIEWED: 2819
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Monday, August 6, 2007 5:40 AM

With a little distance now, ST:N isn't nearly as bad as I first thought. In fact, it's pretty good, given the ST2 kinda ending (Which was ALSO used in X-2, btw).
As a die-hard fan, I hadda give it another chance, and I'm glad I did.

Make it so Chrisisall

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Monday, August 6, 2007 8:42 AM

CHRISISALL

Gee Chrisisall, you're right! It WAS pretty good. And the deleted scenes are the most interesting of any Trek film!

NotChrisisall, but a clone.

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Monday, August 6, 2007 10:23 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
the deleted scenes are the most interesting of any Trek film!

I found that to be true as well! It's like you're saying what I'm thinking! Yeah, we were way too hard on it the first time.

Chrisisallclone#2

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Monday, August 6, 2007 7:41 PM

DATALESS

It sucks simply because they couldn't actually kill off Data. It would have been a great movie if they had the courage kill off a single main character. In my opinion it was bad writing to have B4 in the movie, but even worse to have him sing the song that Data did giving us hope that Data isn't really dead. The overall story it good and worth watching but just a poor way to end a Generation.

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Tuesday, August 7, 2007 3:07 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Dataless:
It sucks simply because they couldn't actually kill off Data.

I actually liked that part better than when they killed Spock in ST2 because hey, kill Spock?? We all knew he had to come back... but Data? I know it's a technicality, but I can buy that Data is gone, and that B4 is a different but similar being.
Maybe I'm the only one, though...

Data-less Chrisisall

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Tuesday, August 7, 2007 4:33 AM

JONGSSTRAW

I remember when I saw it in the theater I really didn't like it. Saw the DVD, started to like it, and now after several viewings I'd say it's pretty good...probably the best of the Next generation movies. The Data sub-plot, was as usual, stupid and boring...but all the Romulan stuff was very well done....and having Dina Meyers playing a Romulan was a thrill for me, as I can hardly ever forget her memorable scenes in Starship Troopers...anybody see the soap?

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Tuesday, August 7, 2007 4:40 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
and having Dina Meyers playing a Romulan was a thrill for me, as I can hardly ever forget her memorable scenes in Starship Troopers...anybody see the soap?

She was also good in Johnny Mnemonic, but more of in an acting than flashing kind of way.

BTW, the best NG movie was Insurrection.

Positronic Chrisisall

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Tuesday, August 7, 2007 4:43 AM

CYBERSNARK

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I know it's a technicality, but I can buy that Data is gone, and that B4 is a different but similar being.

Exactly. the B4's positronic net is way too primitive to carry Data's mind. The best it could do is a brain-damaged, senile, Alzheimer's-ridden Data who needs to be cared for.

The only people who knew how to build a neural net that advanced were Dr. Soong and Data himself.

Geordi might try to put his friend back together, but it'd never be the same, and I think Geordi is mature enough to realize that.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, August 7, 2007 5:55 AM

DATALESS

I'm just saying they gave us hope that he could be back and not just let him go. Spock's death was shocking and no one knew if their would be a ST3. So at the time it was shocking but their was hope for spock's return in that one too. Having Spock say the "Space... The final frontier...." Line was a bit of hope and I think that sucks too. I would have loved it if there was no hope for Data at all. What if Geordi studies Lores' pathways and Soong's work then he upgrades B4 to be more like Data? I just saying it was bad writing they couldn't just let him go.

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Tuesday, August 7, 2007 7:34 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Dataless:
I just saying it was bad writing they couldn't just let him go.

Well, since that's the LAST NG movie ever, it's defacto the end of Data; he's not coming back. But he did get a new android off to the best start possible, a sort of son, in a way.

*snif*Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 9, 2007 12:53 PM

IMNOTHERE

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
With a little distance now, ST:N isn't nearly as bad as I first thought.

Actually, just saw it for the first time (it was on TV) and although it was good fun, I do have a few stickles..

Select to view spoiler:

1. Usual "we can't use the transporter because there's an electro-magnetic thingy" plot device leading to a gratuitous dune-buggy chase clearly ripped off from Serenity (look: if they can go back to 1980 to pick up whales, they can pop ahead a couple of years to rip off a scene from a film) - only not as good.

2. OK, we know Picard and co. regard the Prime Directive as more of a guideline, but they've usually required a bit of a moral dilemma and some wringing of hands before going down to a pre-warp civilization and making first contact ballistically

.

3. So they just give B4 the run of the ship. Who pressed the plot reset button so that everybody totally forgot that Data already had one twin brother and he turned out

eeevil!?

4. So, Picard has a clone and he is

eeevill! too. Yawn. Couldn't we have a brilliant-but-misguided clone, about to cause a disaster "for the greater good" for a change?

5. If in the middle of winning a nasty space battle, remember to have periodic time-outs so that your almost-beaten opponent can have a seance /ouija-board thing to find out where you are.

6. That viewscreen thingy on the bridge is actually a window...? Sheesh - 6 generations of starship and they still put the bridge in harm's way.

7. Note to Federation: fit fricking cloaking devices! It may be against the wossname treaty but that's never stopped you before.

8. Note to desigers of superweapons - always ensure that they take 10 minutes to charge up/get into firing position, allowing plenty of time for heroic intervention. Its the law. Its lazy plotting.

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Thursday, August 9, 2007 2:54 PM

CYBERSNARK

Rearranging spoiler tags. I hope this works. . .

EDIT: nope.

Quote:
Originally posted by ImNotHere:
Select to view spoiler:

1. Usual "we can't use the transporter because there's an electro-magnetic thingy" plot device leading to a gratuitous dune-buggy chase clearly ripped off from Serenity (look: if they can go back to 1980 to pick up whales, they can pop ahead a couple of years to rip off a scene from a film) - only not as good.

Well, like Picard said, he's been dying to try out the Argo. I like it when he gets to do Action stuff, he obviously has such fun with it.

Quote:
Select to view spoiler:

2. OK, we know Picard and co. regard the Prime Directive as more of a guideline, but they've usually required a bit of a moral dilemma and some wringing of hands before going down to a pre-warp civilization and making first contact ballistically .

They were investigating the whatever-it-was-that-was-making-a-positron-signature. Ultimately, I'd think the risk of a small skirmish with aliens and a UFO in the middle of a warzone outweighs the risk of actual out-of-place technology being found by primitives.

Hell, if T'Pol had been there, she'd've been the first one down.

And the away team was obviously gambling on being able to avoid the natives for the hour-or-so they'd be there. The turtle-people must've snuck up while Data was talking to the severed head (and not watching the tricorder like he should've been).

Quote:
Select to view spoiler:
3. So they just give B4 the run of the ship. Who pressed the plot reset button so that everybody totally forgot that Data already had one twin brother and he turned out eeevil!?

They didn't give B4 run of the ship. They figured out instantly that he was part of Shinzon's plot. That's why they had Data shut him down and switch places to be beamed aboard the Scimitar.

Quote:
Select to view spoiler:
4. So, Picard has a clone and he is eeevill! too. Yawn. Couldn't we have a brilliant-but-misguided clone, about to cause a disaster "for the greater good" for a change?

Shinzon was brilliant-but-misguided. He was working for the best interests of the Reman people. His only real mistake was the same one made by Gul Ducat (and Hitler, for that matter): assuming that in order for his people to be Strong, someone else had to suffer (the Federation in Shinzon's case, the Bajorans for Ducat, the Jews for Hitler).

Quote:
Select to view spoiler:
5. If in the middle of winning a nasty space battle, remember to have periodic time-outs so that your almost-beaten opponent can have a seance /ouija-board thing to find out where you are.

Well, that's Shinzon's fault. He wasn't at his rational best at the time.

Quote:
Select to view spoiler:
6. That viewscreen thingy on the bridge is actually a window...? Sheesh - 6 generations of starship and they still put the bridge in harm's way.

Shipbuilding tradition: the bridge usually ends up being the highest point on the ship: Deck 1. Yeah, it is kinda stupid.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, August 9, 2007 4:20 PM

CHRISISALL

Brilliantly put, Cybersnark!
You've earned your pay for the week.

Captain Chrisisall

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Friday, August 10, 2007 9:45 AM

IMNOTHERE

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
They didn't give B4 run of the ship. They figured out instantly that he was part of Shinzon's plot.

Only after they found someone rifling through the computers and investigated...

Quote:

Shinzon was brilliant-but-misguided. He was working for the best interests of the Reman people.

Well, yes, for the first five minutes when he's play acting. Staging a coup on Romulus: may help the Reman people. Nuking earth, getting the rest of the Federation really pissed and atarting a big war: evil.

Quote:

Shipbuilding tradition: the bridge usually ends up being the highest point on the ship: Deck 1. Yeah, it is kinda stupid.

On seagoing ships when (a) you didn't have fancy viewscreens and (b) you were sailing around a curved planet (so the higher you are the further you see) that wasn't tradition - it was a sensible design decision.

In the 21st century we're getting to the point where the Mk1 eyeball is no longer the most efficient sensor & I think you'll find that, in a modern warship, more and more of the business goes on belowdecks in a darkened room with lots of radar screens.

In space, which typically alternates between far too dark and far too bright for human eyeballs, windows are a liability. The sensible design for Trek-era would be to fly the ship from the holodeck!

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 4:59 PM

KILLERBANANA

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Dataless:
I just saying it was bad writing they couldn't just let him go.
Well, since that's the LAST NG movie ever, it's defacto the end of Data; he's not coming back. But he did get a new android off to the best start possible, a sort of son, in a way.

*snif*Chrisisall

I've already heard talks of a new season or movie from the NG crew, and what with a new Star Trek film on the way (which while I hope is good, I dislike the very idea of going back to the beginning, Star Trek is supposed to be moving forward, Gene will be spinning up in space in anger right now), I certainly don't think more is impossible.

And as for Nemesis, I first saw it at the cinema with my mum (she's a huge star trek fan, she got me into it with her mass collection of star trek tapes) and I loved it, the usual star trek wit with some great action scenes. As for data, it was certainly left very open, so who knows.

----------------------------
"No! I can't. Too much hair."

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Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:29 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by killerbanana:
As for data, it was certainly left very open, so who knows.

B4 does have Data's Katra, I guess...

There at the beginning Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:14 AM

KILLERBANANA

Plus, can I point out, they have a new Star Trek movie about Kirk and Spock, and they seemed pretty much done with the original series movie wise after the 6th/7th movie, so you can't say there WON'T be another NG movie/series

----------------------------
"No! I can't. Too much hair."

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Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:52 AM

CHRISISALL

Well, yes...good point.

Tomorrow is yesterday Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 16, 2007 3:38 PM

CYBERSNARK

And there's still post-Nemesis novels (both TNG and other lines, as well as numerous crossovers).

Unlimited effects budget, a running time that puts LotR to shame, access to all potential Trek characters, regardless of the actor's current status, and freedom from Roddenberry's (well-intentioned but flawed) franchise rules.

Plus, now that Pocket Books is taking a page from Star Wars and actually making an effort to impose a franchise-wide continuity, we're seeing some of the best Trek fiction ever produced.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Friday, August 17, 2007 7:24 AM

CHRISISALL