Dollhouse will not be airing in November by Gilove2dance

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Dollhouse will not be airing in November

POSTED BY: GILOVE2DANCE
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 18:45
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Thursday, October 22, 2009 1:11 AM

Fox has decided to not air Dollhouse during November but rather air back-to-back episodes during December.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/21/will-fox-bench-dollhouse-for-nove
mber-sweeps-after-all/31184

WHY?! How is this going to help? It really isn't...GRRRRRR!!!!! I am so fed up with tv networks right now.

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 3:22 AM

HELL'S KITTEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Gilove2dance:
WHY?!

Because its ratings are abysmal. It would be a very bad business decision to air it during sweeps.

Quote:
How is this going to help? It really isn't...GRRRRRR!!!!! I am so fed up with tv networks right now.

I doubt it's intended to "help" anything other than their bottom line. I know it's the status quo around here to blame FOX, but they've actually given this show more of a chance than a lot of shows; it's no longer their fault if no one wants to watch it.

Sorry for your loss....

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 3:42 AM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
Quote:
Originally posted by Gilove2dance:
WHY?!
Because its ratings are abysmal. It would be a very bad business decision to air it during sweeps.
Quote:
How is this going to help? It really isn't...GRRRRRR!!!!! I am so fed up with tv networks right now.
I doubt it's intended to "help" anything other than their bottom line. I know it's the status quo around here to blame FOX, but they've actually given this show more of a chance than a lot of shows; it's no longer their fault if no one wants to watch it.

Sorry for your loss....

I don't disagree on any particular point.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 6:26 AM

STORYMARK

Yeah, can't blame Fox. Dollhouse gets terrible ratings. Would be a really bad business choice to leave it on for sweeps.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:06 AM

OPPYH

Let it die.

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 8:13 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
Let it die.

How can you be so cold?

But, yeah, this particular bucket will be kicked.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:39 AM

KHAMBILO

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
Let it die.

Come one, was that necessary? I though we already established from previous threads that that sort of talk was completely unwarranted regardless of if you like the show or not.

Anyway, this is just a mercy killing for the show, which sucks. It also demonstrates FOX's complete lack of ability to market a Joss show,( or really any show that isn't House or American Idol, for that matter.) Two weeks ago Fox began to hype up the Summer Glau episodes of this show be letting several influential blogs preview the episode. They in turn praised not only Summer Glau, but the episode as well. Granted, above this Fox did little to promote the aforementioned episode, but it makes no sense whatsoever to hype up an episode like that and then push it back like they did.

I will admit that Joss made a fatal flaw with Dollhouse, and that was taking it to Fox. (And yes I know, contracts, copyrights, legalities, etc. likely influenced the decision to go to Fox with the show, but it sucks anyway)

I could sit here touting the acting, writing, direction, etc. of the show, but I'm afraid it will fall on deaf ears.

I'm going to fight until the end to keep the show on the air because:

1. I enjoy it. I find the acting good, the writing interesting, and the overall look and feel of the show.

2. I was not aware of Firefly during it's short lived run on TV. Many of you here were here from the beginning and actively fought to keep the show on the air and later displayed support for a movie adaptation. Even Firefly had its detractors, even from Joss's fans. I know Buffy and Angel fans who hate Firefly. One of my good friends went as far to say that the acting was horrible, the lines were either cheesy or cliched, and the plot was too contrived. But those critiques didn't stop you from liking and fighting for the show. It's really very easy to draw up parallels between this and the way some Firefly fans have regarded Dollhouse here lately. But regardless of the detractors here, I'm going to continue to fight for it.

The natural argument to what I've just said that Firefly is clearly the better show and that comparing Dollhouse to Firefly is like comparing apples to oranges.

And you'd be right there. Of the two shows, I like Firefly better (Dollhouse and Buffy tying at a close second for me), but with each passing day, the chance for for Firefly or a Serenity sequel becomes less and less. I've resigned myself to being okay if i never get more Firefly or a Serenity sequel; I'm content with everything i already have: books, CDs, etc. But Dollhouse is still on the air, and has the more likely chance to have more episodes and filmed material.

And if none of these arguments seem convincing, at the very least, having Dollhouse on the air is better than having no Joss show on the air. Without Dollhouse on the air, I will seriously have no reason to watch TV.

So if you're a fan of the show, i would highly suggest visiting these sites to show your support:

http://www.whyiwatch.com/

http://dollhousewiki.fox.com/

http://www.dollverse.com/

http://www.ActivateDollhouse.com/

There is also a facebook cause to save Dollhouse if you facebook that is definitely worth checking out.

And if you don't like Dollhouse, I'm asking you to please keep remarks like this....

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
Let it die.

...to a minimum. Imagine people posting messages like this in reference to Firefly, because thats kind of what it's like for us Dollhouse fans.

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 9:43 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
It also demonstrates FOX's complete lack of ability to market a Joss show,

When most hardcore Joss fans don't even like the show, you can't continually blame the marketing. Eventually, you have to sit back and admit, maybe the show just ain't working (at least, not for enough people to be worth it).

Quote:
I will admit that Joss made a fatal flaw with Dollhouse, and that was taking it to Fox.

I disagree. I think his fatal flaw was coming up with a show without a sympathetic lead the audience can root for, with a premise that is difficult to market. I think, all things considered, Fox was exceptionally kind to it - given that it is a difficult to market premise, and they gave it a second season it really hadn't earned.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:02 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by Gilove2dance:
Fox has decided to not air Dollhouse during November but rather air back-to-back episodes during December.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/21/will-fox-bench-dollhouse-for-nove
mber-sweeps-after-all/31184

WHY?! How is this going to help? It really isn't...GRRRRRR!!!!! I am so fed up with tv networks right now.

Look at it positively. We get BACK-TO-BACK SUMMER GLAU! She is twins!
http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx?id=8350
Both Summer Glau episodes will air on the same night, Dec 4, 2009.

Fridays (December 4, 11, 18)
8:00/7:00c – “Dollhouse”
9:00/8:00c – “Dollhouse”

Summer said about her character, “I’m making her as creepy as it gets, but I asked Joss, ‘Can I still be sexy?’” "Yes! Yes! Please do, Summer!" says two, enthusiastically.
Joss Whedon says, "The character that she plays on 'Dollhouse' is very sweet and calm and elegant, kind of shy, kind of adorable, possibly evil, but that doesn't matter."
http://www.zap2it.com/news/zap-dollhouse-story,0,6837651.story

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is at
www.fileden.com/files/2008/8/13/2048723/Serenity-190pages.pdf

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 10:48 AM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
"The character that she plays on 'Dollhouse' is very sweet and calm and elegant, kind of shy, kind of adorable, possibly evil, but that doesn't matter."

hahahaha, oh man. All they need to say is "Next time, on Dollhouse: River crossed with Triumph Saffron!"

I have a feeling even with the push-back, this will be the most viewed episode since the season 1 pilot.

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:13 AM

TUJIAOZUO

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
It also demonstrates FOX's complete lack of ability to market a Joss show,

When most hardcore Joss fans don't even like the show, you can't continually blame the marketing. Eventually, you have to sit back and admit, maybe the show just ain't working (at least, not for enough people to be worth it).

Quote:
I will admit that Joss made a fatal flaw with Dollhouse, and that was taking it to Fox.

I disagree. I think his fatal flaw was coming up with a show without a sympathetic lead the audience can root for, with a premise that is difficult to market. I think, all things considered, Fox was exceptionally kind to it - given that it is a difficult to market premise, and they gave it a second season it really hadn't earned.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

There's been talk of taking Dollhouse to comics, which is really where it should have been in the first place. The concept doesn't work well for TV, but would in a comic format imo.

Your Indian Pirate Lord,
Ash

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:09 PM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by khambilo:
And if you don't like Dollhouse, I'm asking you to please keep remarks like this....
Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
Let it die.

...to a minimum. Imagine people posting messages like this in reference to Firefly, because thats kind of what it's like for us Dollhouse fans.

Ask all you want, but I agree with OPPYH and don't see why he shouldn't be allowed to say what he feels. He's not insulting or attacking anyone.

Heck if someone wants to come on here and say they think Firefly deserved to die then I say let them. It may fall on deaf ears but they can say what they want as far as I'm concerned.

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:26 PM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
He's not insulting or attacking anyone.

In this thread, no. But that has been his general tone of late.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 3:18 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
It also demonstrates FOX's complete lack of ability to market a Joss show,

When most hardcore Joss fans don't even like the show, you can't continually blame the marketing. Eventually, you have to sit back and admit, maybe the show just ain't working (at least, not for enough people to be worth it).

Quote:
I will admit that Joss made a fatal flaw with Dollhouse, and that was taking it to Fox.

I disagree. I think his fatal flaw was coming up with a show without a sympathetic lead the audience can root for, with a premise that is difficult to market. I think, all things considered, Fox was exceptionally kind to it - given that it is a difficult to market premise, and they gave it a second season it really hadn't earned.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

Hear, hear!

Mike

Let the wild rumpus start!

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 4:46 PM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by khambilo:
Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
Let it die.

1. I enjoy it.

That's like saying "Let it live." And more power to ya! Actually... no! Not if it's at the expensive of another saying "Let it die." That seem right to you?

As for OPPYH's "Let it die" remark, I found nothing offensive about it, really. I might have said the same thing.

Quote:

(other related thread) Also I never thought of the episodes being pushed back as a better opportunity to get the word out and promote the show.

See, this is where 'stretching' borders on pathetic. No offence to Joss or you, really; but when you get to the point where you're pitching not-airing your own show as good thing, just so people can spread the word (as if they couldn't do so while it was being aired), then all I can say, indeed, is: let it go already. It's over. Just make an entry in the log: "Patient died at 03:00 hours. Cause of death: massive systemic failure." And call it quits.

The ratings have been abyssmal. Dollhouse has basically been on life-support for a while now: artificially given life which it can, of itself, no longer sustain. To paraphrase our Captain: "You keep a show on the air that no one loves, and she'll shake you off just as sure as the turn of the worlds. Ratings keep her on the air when she oughtta fall down." Facing up to that, and saying "Let it die," without those ratings, is therefore no more than relinquishing one's struggle against reality.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Thursday, October 22, 2009 5:35 PM

KHAMBILO

I'm going to try not spend a huge amount of time here because as I've said before, likely all of my arguments will fall on deaf ears.

First off, thanks Storymark for kinda playing the moderator here. I know you're not a fan of the show and I thank you for at least be respectful about that.

Also, thanks Two for your "think positively" post, because when you're a fan of the show and you hear news like this, its hard to think positively. This combined with Joss's comments on the schedule have actually been somewhat encouraging in respect to the survival of the show.

Second, I want to give some rebuttal on some of the things that have since been posted.

Quote:
Originally posted by STORYMARK
When most hardcore Joss fans don't even like the show, you can't continually blame the marketing. Eventually, you have to sit back and admit, maybe the show just ain't working (at least, not for enough people to be worth it).

That's a very relative statement -"most", "hardcore". And what really constitutes a "hardcore" fan? In your eyes, does liking Dollhouse make people less of a hardcore Joss fan? Many would argue that a true hardcore Joss fan loves EVERYTHING he puts out. I don't feel that way. I was never a huge fan of Angel. I watched and enjoyed it sort of, but not as much as I enjoyed Firefly or Buffy. Does that make me less of a hardcore Joss fan?

This a problem when considering the show, because it isn't Buffy. And for us Firefly fans, after the crushing cancellation of Firefly we expected Joss's next show to be like it. But we got Dollhouse, which is admittedly a much different show, but not a worse show, it's simply not Firefly.

Instead of snarky Buffy staking the demon of the week, we get a group of injured souls struggling to become self aware.
Instead of an imperious Alliance who will crush all without batting an eyelash, we get a deeply complex lead of the Dollhouse who struggles with her own convictions and justifications about what she does. Instead of Xander or Wash, Joss's classic funny men, we get Topher, who is also a funny man, but falls farther than either of them because of not paying attention to his convictions.

These all resemble Joss stereotypes, but are much deeper and thought out than their previous incarnations.

Dollhouse is different, but that does not detract from the show, and in fact, only enhances it.

As for the marketing of the show, I've never seen a single ad for the show aired except for after the latest episode. Many people simply don't know the show exists because of this. Joss basically said in his response to this the websites like whyiwatch are doing a better job of getting the word out than Fox is. That's bad marketing, and it can be continually blamed until the marketing strategy changes. If the marketing changes and the show's ratings don't improve, then thats when you can stop blaming the marketing.

Quote:

I think his fatal flaw was coming up with a show without a sympathetic lead the audience can root for, with a premise that is difficult to market.

This true and not true. However, if Fox had marketed Dollhouse like a spy thriller, which is a broader way to look at what Dollhouse is, the viewership might have been better.

Also, with regards to the sympathetic leads and a premise thats difficult to market, Firefly had a difficult to market premise as well - a western, set in space - which shied many away from it without even watching an episode. And though largely our group of big damn heroes was sympathetic, but even Joss pointed out in the commentary the he purposely made Mal shoot the Alliance agent at the end of the pilot to distance him from the audience and make him less sympathetic.

For Dollhouse, I would argue that you can sympathize with the dolls as well because you want them to become self aware and to break free of their circumstances at the Dollhouse.

Quote:
That's like saying "Let it live." And more power to ya! Actually... no! Not if it's at the expensive of another saying "Let it die." That seem right to you?

It seems right to me because the people who say "Let it die" have nothing to lose. The people who say "Let it live" DO have something at stake. Therefore saying "let it live" really is not at the expense of those who say "let it die."

I have no problem with people expressing an opinion on this site, but this is just simply spreading negativity and it's been going on here on nearly every Dollhouse board. And by now, if you don't like Dollhouse, many have already made that opinion abundantly clear, prompting Dollhouse fans such as myself to react in such a way.

Quote:
See, this is where 'stretching' borders on pathetic. No offence to Joss or you, really; but when you get to the point where you're pitching not-airing your own show as good thing, just so people can spread the word (as if they couldn't do so while it was being aired), then all I can say, indeed, is: let it go already. It's over. Just make an entry in the log: "Patient died at 03:00 hours. Cause of death: massive systemic failure." And call it quits.

The ratings have been abyssmal. Dollhouse has basically been on life-support for a while now: artificially given life which it can, of itself, no longer sustain. To paraphrase our Captain: "You keep a show on the air that no one loves, and she'll shake you off just as sure as the turn of the worlds. Ratings keep her on the air when she oughtta fall down." Facing up to that, and saying "Let it die," without those ratings, is therefore no more than relinquishing one's struggle against reality.

I never said that this schedule change was good thing. If you recall i said earlier in this thread that this action was simply sending the show away to die. However, I need to see the positives if i want to keep the show going, and Joss does as well.

Did you fight for Firefly? Critics of the browncoats said the same thing about what we were trying to do. They said Firefly was dead, it was over, and Firefly fans everywhere refused to simply lie down and fought to keep the show alive in the new medium of the movie.

I like Dollhouse, so I'm going to fight for it in the same way. Who are you to say when it's over or dead? It's the same with the people who viewed Firefly in this way. They had no right to say when it was dead, but against all odds we got a big damn movie.
I want Dollhouse to succeed in this way against the odds.

And the paraphrased statement above - well i could rehash what i've already stated, but there's no point in that.

" ...without those ratings, is therefore no more than relinquishing one's struggle against reality."

A TV show, film, book, etc., for me should be an escape from reality. Keeping the show alive is an escape in that respect as well.

Besides, realistically, we shouldn't have a big damn movie. But as browncoats, we weren't resigned to being realistic and we fought for what we wanted. For me it's the same with Dollhouse. You can argue the quality of the show and the ratings all you want with me, but this is what I want, and I'm going to fight to keep it, just as we did with Firefly not so long ago.

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Friday, October 23, 2009 4:45 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by khambilo:
They had no right to say when it was dead, but against all odds we got a big damn movie.

This is my problem with your posts. You keep trying to tell people they don't have a right to their opinion. Of course they do. They have every right to shout it from the roof tops. Just as you're allowed to fight for your favorite show. How would you feel if you were told you couldn't talk about saving Dollhouse because it's already been said before? That's just not fair.

I wouldn't even want to visit a board where everyone had to agree with the same optimistic opinions all the time.

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Friday, October 23, 2009 7:06 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by khambilo:

That's a very relative statement -"most", "hardcore". And what really constitutes a "hardcore" fan? In your eyes, does liking Dollhouse make people less of a hardcore Joss fan? Many would argue that a true hardcore Joss fan loves EVERYTHING he puts out. I don't feel that way. I was never a huge fan of Angel. I watched and enjoyed it sort of, but not as much as I enjoyed Firefly or Buffy. Does that make me less of a hardcore Joss fan?

I'm not trying to create some level at which someone is considered a real fan or anything - you're missing my point. What I'm trying to get at is - this is a site of raging Whedon fans. Everyone here was at the minimum willing to give the show a chance just because of his name. If there is anywhere that Dollhouse is going to get support, its sites like this one. And yet, even here, while there are some very devout fans of the show, they seem to be a small number, with the rest feeling ambivalent at best - and some flat out hating it.

When that is the reaction of the loyal fanbase.... it's not a good sign for the longevity of the show.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, October 23, 2009 7:15 AM

TESKA

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Friday, October 23, 2009 7:19 AM

TESKA

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
Let it die.

I concur, let it die.

I'm not happy Joss decided to once again work with the scum known as FOX even though they totally brutalized the greatest show ever.

I'm happy he got himself a new project and is makin moneys.

I'm not happy he picked Eliza Dushku, she's smokin' hot, but a horrendous actress.

Aaaand I don't like Dollhouse (GASP), it's the same crap over and over. Or possibly, Dushku's peformance is THE SAME CRAP OVER AND OVER!!!!!

I misses Firefly.......

Eliza Doucheku

People who put cutesy political quotes in their signature should be tortured and fed their own family and/or pets.

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Friday, October 23, 2009 7:28 AM

TESKA

Quote:
Originally posted by khambilo:
Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
Let it die.

Come one, was that necessary? I though we already established from previous threads that that sort of talk was completely unwarranted regardless of if you like the show or not.

And if you don't like Dollhouse, I'm asking you to please keep remarks like this....
Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
Let it die.

...to a minimum. Imagine people posting messages like this in reference to Firefly, because thats kind of what it's like for us Dollhouse fans.

Hur ha hur hur Boys and Girls, can you say, CENCORSHIP?

Teska the Clown wants you to know, CENCORSHIP is bad, hur ha hur hur!

Just be nice and speak your mind and CENCORSHIP will have no reason to exist.

HUR HA HUR HUR!!!!

People who put cutesy political quotes in their signature should be tortured and fed their own family and/or pets.

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Friday, October 23, 2009 7:30 AM

STORYMARK

People who think that was anywhere close to resembling censorship need to go back to civics class, or maybe buy a clue.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, October 23, 2009 9:23 AM

TESKA

Or maybe you should read all posts. They don't want negative comments aimed at Dollhouse. Not allowing such comments would be cencoriffic. Here's a quarter, go buy your own clue.

People who put cutesy political quotes in their signature should be tortured and fed their own family and/or pets.

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Friday, October 23, 2009 9:29 AM

STORYMARK

I read fine. Here's where you seem to be having problems - asking someone not to say something is not the same as "not allowing" them to do so. You see... a request does not prevent anyone from doing anything. It's not censorship, because they have no power to stop you, or remove comments, or any of the things that would constitute actual "censorship". Only Haken has that power, and unless I'm missing something, he's not involved with this.

You are doubly clueless in that, by saying those people shouldn't make such requests, you are doing the exact same thing you are complaining about in the first place. It takes a special kind of dumb to pull that off.

Keep the quarter, you clearly need it.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, October 23, 2009 9:53 AM

TESKA

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Friday, October 23, 2009 9:54 AM

TESKA

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
I read fine. Here's where you seem to be having problems - asking someone not to say something is not the same as "not allowing" them to do so. You see... a request does not prevent anyone from doing anything. It's not censorship, because they have no power to stop you, or remove comments, or any of the things that would constitute actual "censorship". Only Haken has that power, and unless I'm missing something, he's not involved with this.

You are doubly clueless in that, by saying those people shouldn't make such requests, you are doing the exact same thing you are complaining about in the first place. It takes a special kind of dumb to pull that off.

Keep the quarter, you clearly need it.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

Are you insane or are you trying to get a rise? I ask because you have managed to twist my words and intentions beyond recognition not to mention attempting to verbally insult me.

In no way was I saying no one should have a say of their own.

Never did I say anyone should be silenced.

What I did say was that comments, such as the ones I stated several posts back. intentionally or unintenionally call for censorship.

Also,I get the feeling you're an all around mean person. I think you would be a great spin-doctor, you've shown quite a propensity for it.

People who put cutesy political quotes in their signature should be tortured and fed their own family and/or pets.

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Friday, October 23, 2009 10:11 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by Teska:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
I read fine. Here's where you seem to be having problems - asking someone not to say something is not the same as "not allowing" them to do so. You see... a request does not prevent anyone from doing anything. It's not censorship, because they have no power to stop you, or remove comments, or any of the things that would constitute actual "censorship". Only Haken has that power, and unless I'm missing something, he's not involved with this.

You are doubly clueless in that, by saying those people shouldn't make such requests, you are doing the exact same thing you are complaining about in the first place. It takes a special kind of dumb to pull that off.

Keep the quarter, you clearly need it.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

Are you insane or are you trying to get a rise? I ask because you have managed to twist my words and intentions beyond recognition not to mention attempting to verbally insult me.

In no way was I saying no one should have a say of their own.

Never did I say anyone should be silenced.

What I did say was that comments, such as the ones I stated several posts back. intentionally or unintenionally call for censorship.

Also,I get the feeling you're an all around mean person. I think you would be a great spin-doctor, you've shown quite a propensity for it.

People who put cutesy political quotes in their signature should be tortured and fed their own family and/or pets.

Here, I'll try and make it simple for you.

Person A said kill the show.

Person B asked them not to say that.

You accused Person B of censorship for making a request, which since they have no power to actually censor anyone (meaning it can't be censorship, my original point), means you were really telling them to shut up.

Which is, intentionally or unintentionally, essentially what person B did in the first place, you just managed to do it with less tact, but with more subtlety.

Here's a newsflash - them asking that others not say certain things is also protected under free speech. Your erroneously labeling it as censorship is in it's own way, a form of what you decry.

And suuuure. I'm the mean one for defending others' rights to say what they like, while you are all sweet and such for making baseless accusations. Riiiiiight.

Mean? Nah. But I do delight in taking the air out of pompous windbags, who incidentally, don't understand what censorship actually is.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, October 23, 2009 10:19 AM

TESKA

Le Sigh....

People who put cutesy political quotes in their signature should be tortured and fed their own family and/or pets.

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Friday, October 23, 2009 10:52 AM

RUGBUG

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
What I'm trying to get at is - this is a site of raging Whedon fans. Everyone here was at the minimum willing to give the show a chance just because of his name. If there is anywhere that Dollhouse is going to get support, its sites like this one.

Not so sure you can say that. I watched BtVS from the beginning of S2. You couldn't MAKE me watch Firefly. I had zero interest, raging BtVS/Whedon fan or not. I thought it was a lame premised stupidly named show (even worse the BtVS) and was pulling him away from Buffy. I never watched a single episode of Firefly on air...and couldn't be bothered with the DVDs until a few years ago. Things have obviously changed for me, but my point is that A LOT of Whedon fans don't just want more Whedon, they want more of the same from him, more BtVS, Angel, Firefly.

Dollhouse in it's current state is not "the same." In fact, it's quite different. It has shown signs of heading into territory that will be more familiar to Whedonites, but it's not there yet. I can ABSOLUTELY see how fans of Joss' prior work would not like Dollhouse, even with his name all over it, but that doesn't mean it's a crappy show that deserves to die. The ratings don't even mean that...they mean it doesn't appeal to enough other people to keep it on the air. It will die, but for those of us intrigued enough to tune in each week and wanting to see where it will go, it's kind of sad.

When it does go, all I can say is thank god for Epitaph One, which to me will always be the series finally...even if there were 8 more seasons.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Saturday, October 24, 2009 6:29 AM

ASARIAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

You are doubly clueless in that, by saying those people shouldn't make such requests, you are doing the exact same thing you are complaining about in the first place. It takes a special kind of dumb to pull that off.

And it takes a special kind of 'smart' to consider yourself clever here, whereas you only flaunt your ignorance.

It's not the same at all. Teska made what we call a 'meta' request. Ever heard the the genie granting three wishes? If I use up my last wish to ask for another three wishes, then the latter is a 'meta' wish: not of equal rank to the first two, but above it (as per Hofstadter's famous book, Gödel, Escher, Bach, granting of meta-wishes requires talking to a meta-genie, who talks to a meta-meta-genie, etc., leading to infinite recursion; but I digress). Likewise, Teska's request for no requests is a meta request. It's of a higher order. There are many real-life examples of such meta requests; for instance,

"Don't tell each other what to do!"

That's telling people that what they should do is not tell each other what to do! This one's trickier (unrelated, but just for fun):

"I wish my wish would not be granted!"

After Hofstadter's example of Achilles and the Tortoise, inside the Little Harmonic Labyrinth, when he talks about Isomorphism and Goedel's Incompleteness Theorem. Achilles' wish creates a paradox, which crashes the story: for his wish to be granted, it had to be denied--yet not to grant it would be to grant it.

Quote:

Keep the quarter, you clearly need it.

I would hang on to it your own self for a while. My advice would be to put it towards Gödel, Escher, Bach.

--
"Mei-mei, everything I have is right here." -- Simon Tam

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Saturday, October 24, 2009 4:28 PM

JAMERON4EVA

HEY!!!!!!!! MAYBE THIS IS AN OPENING TO BRING TSCC BACK!!!!!!!

TSCC TSCC TSCC TSCC TSCC TSCC TSCC TSCC

AS AHHNNOOLLDD SAID, AHEM, "I'LL BE BAAHHCK!"

"FRACKING CYLONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

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Saturday, November 14, 2009 5:30 PM

JAMERON4EVA

It's canelled, huh, as we didn't see that one coming.

"Mom, he has her chip. He has her."
John Connor,"Born To Run", TSCC EP 2x22

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Sunday, November 15, 2009 7:59 AM

KWICKO

Quote:

Hur ha hur hur Boys and Girls, can you say, CENCORSHIP?

I can say it. Can you spell it?

I haven't seen any "censorship" here. I've seen people asking others to keep their low opinions of Dollhouse to themselves. I understand their feelings, but I don't agree with them. Some have even pointed out that they didn't like Angel, or Buffy - which is different from saying I don't like Dollhouse, HOW, exactly? If you get to state what Joss shows are YOUR favorites and least favorite, don't I get to do the same?

I didn't care for Dollhouse. I'm not alone in this. I'm not shocked that it's canceled, but I *WAS* a bit shocked it got a second season. All that said, I was really wishing and hoping that it would turn out to be the best show in the history of television, because then Joss would have so much clout people would be lining up to give him money to make Serenity 2, or to reboot Firefly.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:45 PM

STOWEAWAY

Woohoo! Back-to-back episodes coming soon.

We're having a Friday night shindig to watch. Nice that they're still filming the last episodes after cancellation. Hopefully they'll use the chance to wrap everything up nicely.
Then again, it is Joss......

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