LOST Finale by cljohnston108

Just some cool stuff I've found this past week...

http://fuckyeahlost.com/

________________________

"Spry for a dead fella!"

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Sunday, May 23, 2010 2:25 AM

WHOZIT

www.zap2it.com is posting alot of "Lost" storys and other things today.

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Sunday, May 23, 2010 7:18 AM

Excellently funny clips.

Really looking forward to the finale in a happy/sad way.

Just remember that Des is Daniel's constant and Des is in both timelines seemingly playing a major part. Daniel will save the day through Des.

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Sunday, May 23, 2010 1:30 PM

WHOZIT

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/05/22/lost-finale-ratings-take-a-guess/
52126

I guessed between 15 - 17 million.

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Sunday, May 23, 2010 5:57 PM

OPPYH

I loved the finale.
It's probably gonna be ripped apart by the non-Christian crowd though.

-------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

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Monday, May 24, 2010 3:01 AM

CORNCOBB

The Lost Finale was abysmal. Yes, I'm non-christian, but that's only a small part of it. This was very badly written and cliched. I personally feel I'd have to be very deeply religious to be able to embrace that pointless ending.

Select to view spoiler:

Seriously, they sacrificed giving us the answers for giving us flash-forwards to their afterlife dreamworld? Why couldn't they, if they're good writers, resolve the characters' issues in life? What part of this ridiculously convoluted quest to give the charcters all their memories back was relevant to the plot or the character development? The big reveals and character resolutions turn out to be
A) Everyone dies eventually - well duh.
B) They go to heaven - You can either believe this or not. If you believe that, you don't need to be told. If you don't then it's trite. We don't need yet another show ripping off the bible(s) instead of daring to be inventive. It was ultimately pointless and a waste of half the season either way. It also negated a lot of the previous events, rendering things like the time travelling utterly pointless and thus undermining the shows narrative structure.

They had a preset amount of time to resolve things and the writing ability to tell an original story. They just didn't bother.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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Monday, May 24, 2010 3:42 AM

I thought that the episode was good in and of itself. If you look at it as the end of the whole show though it's severely lacking.

I think it's safe to say we were cheated. All those mysteries that probably never had any solutions to them in the first place. It just shows why I love Joss's work so much more. I don't see him ever cheating the audience like that.

The worst I ever felt from Joss was the lame way he handled Dawn's interaction with her mom in Conversations with Dead People. I thought that was a pretty weak pay off.

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Monday, May 24, 2010 3:50 AM

Since I don't have a TV, I'm waiting for a decent torrent to show up.
Now I'm wondering if it's even worth the effort.

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Monday, May 24, 2010 5:05 AM

I'm going to disagree with the naysayers

I'm a non-Christian, in fact I'm non-anything religious but I really liked the ending.
I felt it gave a nice sense of closure while leaving stuff open to further speculation and repeated viewings. Yes the Christian/heaven thing was a bit heavy, like BSG was although Lost never said it was heaven but it is a logical jump from the name Christian Shepherd. But it is just a story, it's not like it's preaching to anyone, you can just take it as it is - a story.

And CornCobb the sideways tomeline wasn't a flashforward to what the afterlife was going to be like (at least IMO) it was just a place they created to meet up when they died before moving on. Time had no meaning there and in this one they were waiting for Jack as he was the last one to realise the situation and what was really going on. The show didn't say what the afterlife was going to be like or what it actually was.
Also the character resolutions weren't all that they eventually die. Each had their own. Jack's was finally accepting his place/destiny and effectively 'fixing' the island. Hurley was to become a leader, someone with a purpose. Ben was to finally find someone he could be friends with, who wanted him, rather than just using him or putting him down. Kate's was putting someone else first (Aaron then Claire) rather than just thinking about herself. Claire was accepting that she was a mother. Sawyer I'm not quite sure on yet. Richard was finally being able to grow old.

I think given time and another viewiing of this last season I could answer most of the questions I have to my satisfaction.
The creators have said they weren't going to answer every question, there's no way they could, and that not everyone will be happy. I think they've done a pretty good job (not perfect) and although it's not how I thought it would end (I think I only guessed two bits right) I'm happy with it.

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Monday, May 24, 2010 5:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
I think given time and another viewiing of this last season I could answer most of the questions I have to my satisfaction.

Really? I mean you either have a very small list of obviously questions or you're delusional IMO.

There is just way too much left open that we don't have enough evidence to answer. You can make stuff up for it, but there's no way to really figure it out.

For instance how did Eloise Hawking know to meet Desmond in the jewelery store? From what we can tell her future knowledge all came from Daniel's notebook. Desmond never discussed that event with Daniel so it should not have been in his notebook. There is also the issue of how she knew the man in the red shoes would be killed. How could that have made it in Daniel's notebook? There just isn't any evidence to figure out what was going on.

Lost is full of mysteries like that. I think it's pretty safe to say there's no answer because the writers don't have an answer. They wanted to make that scene to move other plot points along. If they needed a flying dishwasher to move something along then there would be a flying dishwasher with not explanation of where it came from. Shoddy writing IMO.

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Monday, May 24, 2010 6:34 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Jewel Staite tweeted, “While I'm still processing that doozy of a finale and may need to smoke some peyote to understand it, I so loved Lost. Already miss it :( ”
http://twitter.com/JewelStaite/statuses/14630482392

I'm bitter because I had wanted to believe that the Island was really a giant flying saucer that had crashed millions of years ago, killing its alien pilots and the dinosaurs.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Monday, May 24, 2010 6:53 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by cljohnston108:
Since I don't have a TV, I'm waiting for a decent torrent to show up.
Now I'm wondering if it's even worth the effort.

If you must torrent, there is http://eztv.it/shows/171/lost/

But why wait for a torrent when there is faster?
http://www.scnsrc.net/tv/omfg-its-the-lost-ffffffffffiiiiiiiinnnnnaaaa
aaaaaaalllllleeeeee-o/
http://www.rlslog.net/lost-s06e17-hdtv-xvid-notv/

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Monday, May 24, 2010 7:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
I think given time and another viewiing of this last season I could answer most of the questions I have to my satisfaction.

Really? I mean you either have a very small list of obviously questions or you're delusional IMO.

There is just way too much left open that we don't have enough evidence to answer. You can make stuff up for it, but there's no way to really figure it out.

For instance how did Eloise Hawking know to meet Desmond in the jewelery store? From what we can tell her future knowledge all came from Daniel's notebook. Desmond never discussed that event with Daniel so it should not have been in his notebook. There is also the issue of how she knew the man in the red shoes would be killed. How could that have made it in Daniel's notebook? There just isn't any evidence to figure out what was going on.

Lost is full of mysteries like that. I think it's pretty safe to say there's no answer because the writers don't have an answer. They wanted to make that scene to move other plot points along. If they needed a flying dishwasher to move something along then there would be a flying dishwasher with not explanation of where it came from. Shoddy writing IMO.

I did say MOST questions, not all, and I did say to MY satisfaction and yes it would be a theory based answer for some of the answers, maybe a lot of them, but based on what I've seen in the show.
You say yourself that Lost is full of mysteries so it stands to reason to me that even now the show has ended that there would still be mysteries ongoing, even some of the bigger ones.
And I disagree that it's shoddy writing that they didn't answer some of the plot points. Why should they answer everything. Real life doesn't offer all the answers so why should a TV show? They chose the ones they wanted answer and left the rest for us. As I say in time and repeated viewings I'm sure more answers will come forth but not defiinitely not all of them.

As for Eloise Hawking I have a theory and it brings me on to the term 'special' This was used quite a bit in the show and it bugged me when folks automatically assumed it meant special abilities or powers. Some special characters appeared to have abilities, others didn't. They were 'special' in other ways (destiny/fate or whatever). I believe Eloise Hawking was one of these with an ability. Her ability was to see the future, or more accurately - see the various timelines of people. She spent a good portion of her life knowing that she killed her son. Everything she did was leading Daniel to that moment. It's why she knew what Des had to do, why she pushed Daniel into physics instead of music, why she helped the Oceanic 6 get back to the island etc etc. Then in the sideways timeline she didn't want Des to succeed because she thought he was going to take Daniel away. Des said he wasn't taking him and Eloise seemed happy. Maybe she couldn't move on because of her guilt or some other reason we don't know. But neither her or Daniel were a big enough part of Jack's life to be a part of the funeral guests.
As I say this is my theory based on what I got from the show. There is no direct evidence in the show saying that Eloise Hawking is this and this and she did this because of this reason. But there is evidence in other characters of things that may apply.

My biggest problem with the whole show is Walt. I think they made a mistake having a kid on the island and then having a years worth of shows add up to a couple of months of island time. In real life he grew up and when the creators realised this they had no way out but to let the character leave the show or they'd have to find a way to explain why he grew so fast. Unfortunately for them there was no way round it but by then it was too late and fans wanted to know more and they couldn't really deliver.

Part of my enjoyment of Lost through all the seasons was not having the answers and then hearing other folks ideas of what was going on. Some great, some wild and some made you wonder if they were watching the same show. I think the same applies to the end. I'm sure the creators want people to keep talking about the show, to keep going over and over it. Probably to persuade more people to buy DVDs as much as anything else. I don't need all the answers given to me, mystery is good. It's what the show was.

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Monday, May 24, 2010 8:06 AM

I just think you're wrong that there ARE answers. I don't think the writers even bothered thinking of how to explain the things that were happening.

How about Jack's Dad appearing to him in the lobby of his building when he was off the island. If smokey's whole deal was getting off the island then surely he couldn't have been off the island appearing to Jack.

I have this theory: the writers hadn't decided what the point was yet. They came up with smokey wanting to get off the island in the last season. I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary yet.

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Monday, May 24, 2010 10:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
I just think you're wrong that there ARE answers. I don't think the writers even bothered thinking of how to explain the things that were happening.

How about Jack's Dad appearing to him in the lobby of his building when he was off the island. If smokey's whole deal was getting off the island then surely he couldn't have been off the island appearing to Jack.

I have this theory: the writers hadn't decided what the point was yet. They came up with smokey wanting to get off the island in the last season. I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary yet.

Fair enough and it's a fair point about Jack's Dad in the lobby, the same could probably be said of Claire appearing to Kate in Aaron's bedroom.
But the writers have repeatedly said that not every question would be answered or could be answered, especially in an entertaining way. IMO if you go into a show like this wanting every point answered clearly with evidence then you were watching the wrong show. Every show out there takes liberties with plot points, coincidences etc. Lost is no exception especially as it's so very complicated, which only makes it harder. Did they have everything plotted out from it's introduction? No. Did they have an idea of what the main focus of the ending? Probably/Maybe. I'm sure it changed quite a bit over the years like other long term shows.

It comes down to the personal opinion of what questions each fan wants answering. To me Christian appearing to Jack isn't important enough to the overall plot to matter. I could say my theory would be that he was addicted to painkillers at that stage (not sure on that) and may have been drinking with it. It may have been an hallucination. A quick thought I just had could be that it was the ghost of Christian that appeared to Jack, not Smokey. Maybe all that was needed to be a ghost was a body on the island, not actually dying there. He did also appear to Michael on the freighter as well.
Now I'm not saying that these are good explanations or valid ones, or even ones I believe. At the minute they are just quick ideas, plus it doesn't explain the Claire/Kate thing. But unless you scrutinsed every detail of the show we probably won't find an answer, if there is one.

Obviously you feel cheated by the show and are blaming the writers, which is your right. Viewers left in earlier seasons because of the same feeling that the writers screwing with them. IMO you are looking for too many answers in a show that never set out to give you all of them. I, on the other hand, am willing to accept that some points remain unsolved or unanswered as it was the very nature of the show.

I guess it comes down to what we each expected from the show and we are currently at opposite ends. Which backgammon pieces do you want, black or white?

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Monday, May 24, 2010 1:13 PM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Corncobb:
The Lost Finale was abysmal.

Hear Hear.

But the terrible storytelling that was Lost runs far deeper than the finale.

This was a show that had a powerful and thought-provoking 1st season. Where was this island? What was the hatch? Does Walt have powers? What was going on in the jungle with all the noises? Why were the numbers special? On, and on...

The moment the show jumped the shark was when the 2nd season opened. After looking back at the jumbled mess of Lost I see clearly what happened and the writers openly admitted it themselves just 4 weeks ago... They had a clear vision how to START a show that MIGHT get canceled, but had no clear vision of what to do when it DIDN'T.

By the time season 2 ended I was smelling a storytelling stink. By Season 3 I knew that they were shooting from the hip. This finale was meaningless to me. It was just more of what I'd grown to expect. Jumbled confusion. I might feel the dark frustration I direct at things like Buffy season 7 when I consider what became of Lost...if I actually cared.

I cannot help but compare these shows to real stories worked out in advance. I've harped on things like Neil Gaimans Sandman Series and George RR Martins work, this is because these men are true masters of the art. They worked out well in advance what their stories would be and made sure things clicked together as they progressed. This is what Firefly was supposed to be...what it SHOULD have been before it was murdered by Fox execs. But Lost? What a pile of go-see. And I really don't care. I'm not buying the DVDs, I'm not wasting my time on sites like lostpedia.com trying to figure out all the non-secrets. I honestly feel sorry for all the people I've witnessed who tried so hard to discect this show to learn it's mysteries. I'm sure they'd feel foolish had they sat in on the writting round-tables for lost where ppl tossed around bizarre new "twists" with no clear vision.

And even the one thing that was supposed to have endured from season 1 (the corpses "Adam and Eve" with the white and black stones) ended up being trite. There were great ideas online working out how they could have been Sun and Jin. But alas, that one single long-term plot device ended up being more of the mess.

No I'm sorry, the finale was just more of what I've come to expect. Season 1 was cool. Had the show been cancled then, maybe it would have endured in our minds like Firefly.

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Monday, May 24, 2010 8:46 PM

OPPYH

Everything that happened on the island happened. Beginning with season 6 every "flash sideways" was actually purgatory.

Jack was the last to realize he was dead.

Beautiful....even if it was a little Sixth Senseish.

-------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

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Monday, May 24, 2010 10:05 PM

CORNCOBB

Bluesuncompanyman, In retrospect i sadly have to agree with you. But up until a third of the way through season 6 I fully believed they were gonna pull a rabbit out of their hat, because they'd done so before. There were actually many times when mysteries on the show had answers that were surprising, clever, satisfying and tied plot threads together. There was still a lot to resolve after season 5, but I believed they could do it. I still believe they could have done it if they'd tried hard enough. But instead they decided to all but ditch the original storylines for an overlong and inconsistent parable about the afterlife. Suddenly, this year, all the answers (what few we got) seemed obvious, illogical, vague and contradictory. It's almost as if they were slapping us in the face with 'there are no rational explanations, and you were fools for thinking there were, but it doesn't matter because look - heaven!'. The show went from being sci-fi with spiritual overtones to being a fantasy show with a religious agenda. And before anyone jumps at the chance to say 'ah, but that church was multi-denominational' I should point out that I don't mean the agenda of one specific religion but rather an agenda to push general religious ideas. If they'd wanted to have a scene about heaven at the end I wouldn't have much cared (other than thinking it cheesy writing) but sacrificing so much screentime and plot to do this was ridiculous.

I agree that the mysteries were made up on the fly but they could have fixed that if they'd remained dedicated to the story right to the end. The flash-sideways had nothing to do with the story of LOST, other than featuring altered versions of the characters, because it didn't really resolve their issues (having everyone lose their memories and then regain them is not character progression). And ANY story could end with 'eventually they all die and go to limbo then meet up and go to heaven'. It's the ultimate cliched cop-out.

Right up until the end there was potential to salvage the story with some twists and revelations, but by then they just didn't care about the story they'd been showing us for the past six years. In truth, I don't think they ever cared. They've said enough to indicate that this really was how they always intended to end things. And we all thought, oh, how clever, they've thought it all through. But, as previously observed, any story could have had that ending, and it didn't matter what happened leadign up to it. So they just kept throwing up vague plot twists to keep us watching.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
But the terrible storytelling that was Lost runs far deeper than the finale.

The moment the show jumped the shark was when the 2nd season opened.

....the jumbled mess of Lost....

By the time season 2 ended I was smelling a storytelling stink. By Season 3 I knew that they were shooting from the hip.

So why the hell did you keep watching a show that you obviously considered to be so bad?
Why would you continue to spend so much time with it if you knew it couldn't go anywhere?

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 3:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
IMO if you go into a show like this wanting every point answered clearly with evidence then you were watching the wrong show.

I never said that. That's a dismissive statement and ignoring the issue that there were no answers. Not that they weren't given. That they just don't exist. I'm saying in the writing meetings they never bothered to come up with a answer for like 80% of the stuff they threw at the screen. That is not deep and complex writing. The writers introduced things to the story with no resolution in mind. I think that's pretty much a fact at this point. That is a cheat to the viewer.

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:21 AM

Okay, I finally got to watch the episode, and I was in tears through half of it.
That final shot closed the circle perfectly.

Way back when Abrams, Lindelof & Cuse swore that the Smoke Monster was NOT a cloud of nanobots, I knew that this whole thing was imaginary, so I just went along for the ride, because not one shred of it could ever have happened; it was all just symbolism and metaphor and allegory.

Most amazing thing I'll ever see on TV.

Even though I avoided spoilers until actually watching the episode, I did catch your comments about the overly-Christian theme, but my Atheist sensibilities weren't jarred, especially since the stained glass covered all faiths...

But most folks on other boards are insisting that only the flash-sideways world was Purgatory, but the end credits convinced me otherwise...

There sits the remains of Oceanic 815, undisturbed by human hands, because there were no survivors.

I almost missed it, because my torrent cuts off right after the LOST title card, but somebody on io9 made a joke about it, so I went to Hulu.
(Of course, they should've probably taken care of those footprints in the sand.)

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:38 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

“The producers came up with the best possible solution for ending the series. There was no way for it to be intellectually satisfying even if they took another 10 weeks. So they left virtually all questions in limbo and presented an emotionally satisfying ending - it didn't make sense but it felt good. OK, only kinda good for me but my wife and daughter spent much of the last hour crying and thought it was wonderful.” http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/05/end-lost#comment-590882

“Romantic art like "Lost" always brings out the cynics, eager to piss on the people who are having a good time.” Maybe cynics need to learn to let go.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:46 AM

Hmmmm CLJOHNSTON108, I think you might be right. At the time of watching it I thought that was the wreckage from season 1 and it was just a throw back to the first episode.

However, looking at it now it doesn't really look like the same wreckage. I think they could have come up with something much more similar if that's what they were going for. So, maybe they are saying that the plane crashed and everyone died. Jack died in that bamboo forest and all of Lost was his own little purgatory. It sure would explain everything. Granted we all figured that out in the first season and they vehemently denied the purgatory theories. That I could accept.

If Lost was kind of like a dream world where it makes sense for things to not really make sense. Granted the whole emotional aspect is totally lost if the characters aren't real people.

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:
Originally posted by lwaves:
IMO if you go into a show like this wanting every point answered clearly with evidence then you were watching the wrong show.

I never said that.

Fair enough it's not exactly what you said but from your own posts:

Quote:

There is just way too much left open that we don't have enough evidence to answer.

There just isn't any evidence to figure out what was going on

I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary yet.

Looking at what you wrote it led me to believe you wanted some kind of proof for everything. A way for you to join the dots (so to speak).

Quote:

That's a dismissive statement and ignoring the issue that there were no answers. Not that they weren't given. That they just don't exist.

YOU say they don't exist and never did. I'm fairly sure in saying that you're probably not alone in this. That's okay as it's your take on things. I think that there are answers (or information to lead to a potential answer) so I wasn't being dismissive IMO, I was disagreeing. Although I state again that I don't think there are answers to every single point that has been brought up over the six seasons but there are ones in the show that only closer viewing and repeated watching will reveal.

Quote:

I'm saying in the writing meetings they never bothered to come up with a answer for like 80% of the stuff they threw at the screen. That is not deep and complex writing. The writers introduced things to the story with no resolution in mind. I think that's pretty much a fact at this point. That is a cheat to the viewer.

That most definitely is not a fact. It is your opinion. You weren't present at these meetings so you cannot state what went on. Neither you nor me will ever find out what went on.

And I have to ask as you repeatdly say there are no answers but you asked me about Eloise Hawking and Christian appearing to Jack in earlier posts. I gave my ideas/theories and you have yet to respond to them. As I say I'm not stating that they are right but that they are my opinion of possible answers from what I saw. If there are no answers as you say I like to read your take on them.

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 6:50 AM

There's no evidence to back up that Eloise was special. We did see that she acquired Daniel's notebook when she killed him. That was evidence of where her future knowledge came from. It just doesn't support everything she did. I can't disprove something that was never shown. It's not good storytelling if that's the "answer" though.

As for Christian I can't remember Jack's state at the time. I don't think he was nearly as inebriated as he was in the first flash forward. The other thing to note was that he was drawn to the lobby by a smoke detector. That pretty heavily implies that it was the smoke monster. Which also implies they hadn't come up with the story of him wanting to leave the island. Which once again supports poor storytelling.

We'll never know?

David Fury, Lost co-executive producer, "Rolling Stone" issue #984, October 6, 2005:

"There was absolutely no master plan on Lost" insists David Fury. "Anybody who said that was lying." "On a show like Lost, it becomes a great big shaggy-dog story," Fury continues cheerily. "They keep saying there's meaning in everything, and I'm here to tell you no - a lot of things are just arbitrary. What I always tried to do to do was connect these random elements, to create the illusion that it was all adding up to something." "Many plot elements were concocted on the fly."

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:56 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by cljohnston108:
There sits the remains of Oceanic 815, undisturbed by human hands, because there were no survivors.

I thought about that, but why would Jack's father tell him that some present in the "church" had died before him and some "long after him" if they had all actually died in the crash?

My thoughts are that the island and everything that happened on it was real.

__________________________________________
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Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

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http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html

http://76thbattalion.proboards.com

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
There's no evidence to back up that Eloise was special. We did see that she acquired Daniel's notebook when she killed him. That was evidence of where her future knowledge came from. It just doesn't support everything she did. I can't disprove something that was never shown. It's not good storytelling if that's the "answer" though.

I agree that there is no evidence that directly says that Eloise was special. My take on it came from the evidence (and facts) that other people did have abilities. And I know it isn't a direct answer or evidence of the kind that you appear to want but it is a theory that I am happy to settle for.

Quote:

As for Christian I can't remember Jack's state at the time. I don't think he was nearly as inebriated as he was in the first flash forward. The other thing to note was that he was drawn to the lobby by a smoke detector. That pretty heavily implies that it was the smoke monster. Which also implies they hadn't come up with the story of him wanting to leave the island. Which once again supports poor storytelling.

No, he was nowhere near as bad as in later times. I don't think he had began drinking (at least not heavily) and I don't think he had his beard. It's not my fave theory and I much prefer the ghost one as we also know that Charlie appeared to Hurley so it's possible Christian appear to Jack. Unless he too is the smoke monster, but I personally don't think so.
As for it being the smoke detector that took Jack to the lobby being an implication that it's Smokey then yes, it is implying that. Doesn't mean it is though. It's not actually stating that it's Smokey.

As you say we'll never know.
I've gone through this show (several times on TV, DVD and Bluray) in believing that there was a plan, or a reason behind it all. I still believe in the show and that it has more to give. You don't think it has any answers and that is quite right on it's own as your view and anyone else who shares it. It wouldn't be the first time fans have felt cheated during a finale to a long running show.

And for the record you may be right that it was all made up for entertainment purposes, I just don't think so. If that was the case then I am wrong but unless the creators come out and actually say so then, again, we'll never know for sure. It was your statement that there are no answers that got me going and probably my statement that I could answer most questions I have that got you going. As I said we went to opposite poles, to either end of the scale or whatever.

So no hard feelings, we'll have to agree to disagree.
I'm genuinely sorry you feel this way about the show. Hopefully you can find something else to fill it's void that is more satisfying.

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:25 AM

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Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
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Originally posted by cljohnston108:
There sits the remains of Oceanic 815, undisturbed by human hands, because there were no survivors.

I thought about that, but why would Jack's father tell him that some present in the "church" had died before him and some "long after him" if they had all actually died in the crash?

My thoughts are that the island and everything that happened on it was real.

I agree that everything but the sideways timeline was real. All the island stuff was definitely real IMO.

I thought I'd heard, or read, that the final shots of the beach wreckage was how the crew had left it after filming. Not sure whether I read it on the net or if it was on that Jimmy Kimmel aftershow thing or where. Could be BS though.

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 11:30 AM

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Originally posted by lwaves:
So no hard feelings, we'll have to agree to disagree.
I'm genuinely sorry you feel this way about the show. Hopefully you can find something else to fill it's void that is more satisfying.

Yep no hard feelings at all. I think we both feel a little sorry for the other. Which is kinda silly when you think about it.

No void though. I was working under the hypothesis that they didn't know what they were doing and could never wrap it up. I got the proof I needed. Plenty of people say why watch if you don't like what they're producing. How do you prove them wrong if you don't weigh all the evidence?

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 4:13 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Quote:
Originally posted by cljohnston108:
There sits the remains of Oceanic 815, undisturbed by human hands, because there were no survivors.

From the LA Times:

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ABC sets the record straight about the series finale's plane crash images

"You know those Oceanic 815 plane crash images that ran after Jack's (Matthew Fox) eye closed and the "Lost" logo appeared on our TV screens? Some "Lost" fans and TV critics have wondered if they were a last Easter egg from the producers, a clue meant to lead us to conclude that no one survived Oceanic 815's crash landing — and therefore everything we've seen over the last six years never really happened.

Well, ABC wants to clear the air: Those photographs were not part of the "Lost" story at all. The network added them to soften the transition from the moving ending of the series to the 11 p.m. news and never considered that it would confuse viewers about the actual ending of the show.

The images shown during the end credits of the 'Lost' finale, which included shots of Oceanic 815 on a deserted beach, were not part of the final story but were a visual aid to allow the viewer to decompress before heading into the news," an ABC spokesperson wrote in an e-mail Tuesday.

That means, Losties, that we were not supposed to think that Christian Shepherd (John Terry) is a liar. What Christian told his son, when they were reunited at the church, should serve as guidance for our interpretation of the series' ending.

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Tuesday, May 25, 2010 9:35 PM

Thanks for that, E.C.!

At least it's nice to know I wasn't the only one with that theory!

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Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:15 AM

awww I liked that theory. If it was all purgatory then it makes sense for things to never get resolved. It's like a dream things happen without them necessarily making any sense in a dream.

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Wednesday, May 26, 2010 3:30 AM