Terminator Triage: rate the termination by chrisisall

Terminator - 8 - Classic flick that helped define the action/sci-fi genre.

T2 - 9 - A bit of a re-tred plot wise of the first, but amped things up to an awesome degree.

T3 - 6 - Again, a re-tread plot-wise, and some unnecessary cheesy humor, but it advances the story well enough, and includes an ending darker than most Hollywood films have the balls for.

Terminator Salvation - 5 - Some good ideas and cool action set-pieces lost in a mix of hole-ridden plotting a focus on spectacle over action. The design of the post Judgment Day world wasn't consistent with the prior films either, which bothered me.

And after seeing the movie, I had no interest in the Machima at all.

TSCC - 6 - Had some good stuff, but lost me a bit by abandoning plot lines after season 1, and then I got bored and stopped watching during the 3-dots phase of season 2.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Saturday, July 17, 2010 4:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

T3 - 6 - Again, a re-tread plot-wise, and some unnecessary cheesy humor, but it advances the story well enough, and includes an ending darker than most Hollywood films have the balls for.

"Advances the story"?
Balls-y John turns into a wimp, Mom is dead, and Arnie shows up AGAIN?????
Crap.
Story, you make me doubt your integrity here...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 7:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

"Advances the story"?
Balls-y John turns into a wimp, Mom is dead, and Arnie shows up AGAIN?????
Crap.
Story, you make me doubt your integrity here...

You should put more thought into your response. His character changing (in a psychologically plausible way) and his mother dying is, by definition, advancing the plot. Arnie being back was obviously a matter of branding, but even then it had specific grounding in the plot, both in why that particular Terminator was sent back, and more directly, how the resistance obtained him and what that implied for the plot of the entire series (John having been killed and all). And then there's the ending, which brought the story forward to a point of no return plot wise, with Judgment Day finally happening (unless maybe they go back in time again...to do totally original stuff like continue to run from robots in LA with a good robot protecting them....that wouldn't be retreading at all.....).

Now, you may not like how the story was developed, which is your prerogative - note I didn't exactly give it a glowing score myself. But to insist it doesn't, while actually listing some of the ways in which it does.... you usually have a better game.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Sunday, July 18, 2010 7:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

Now, you may not like how the story was developed, which is your prerogative. But to insist it doesn't, while actually listing some of the ways in which it does.... you usually have a better game.

Point taken.
Okay, I didn't *like* that the movie sucked.

Seriously, I guess I just had a real problem with John's character, the actor that portrayed him, and Arnie's crappy sunglasses...

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, July 19, 2010 3:16 AM

T1 - 9
T2 - 8
T3 - 7
T4 - n/a
TSCC - 6

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Monday, July 19, 2010 3:38 AM

Terminator- 4 cheesy B movie that for some reason gets way to much credit.

Terminator 2- 9 pretty much a classic. Great action. Outstanding effects for the time. Real sense of suspense through the whole movie.

Terminator 3- 5 good action. Some funny lines. No real emotion.

Terminator Salvation: The Machinima Series- ? haven't seen it.

Terminator: Salvation- 4 there wasn't even great action in this movie. The hybrid dude didn't have the emotional impact on me that I'm sure they were hoping for. Plus the redhead hottie was pregnant! wtf were they thinking?

Terminator: TSCC- 3 the concept seemed like it had big potential. They blundered the whole thing though. They turned it into terminator of the week and even a mini-arch of "sarah's crazy" that was about the dullest thing I've seen on TV. The writers didn't even bother to understand the basics of the things they wrote about. I hope they bury this stinker and salt the Earth, because if they just drop it from all continuity that will be better for the franchise (which is nearly dead at this point anyway...one good movie can't hold up all this garbage)

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Monday, July 19, 2010 5:34 AM

Nice to see I'm not the only one who thought TS was go se.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, July 19, 2010 7:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Nice to see I'm not the only one who thought TS was go se.

As a real *movie* I'd be forced to agree.
But as a passable piece of crap popcorn time waster, I thought it was pretty entertaining.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, July 19, 2010 7:43 AM

It's the "piece of crap" part that tunes me out. Popcorn movies can be well made, this one wasn't.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, July 19, 2010 7:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
It's the "piece of crap" part that tunes me out. Popcorn movies can be well made, this one wasn't.

Terminator 3 was certainly a much better put together flick, but I ended up not liking it... at least 4 tried to give us something new, it gets points for that from me.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, July 19, 2010 8:05 AM

In it's finished form, I don't see it offering all that much that's new, since everything is back to status quo (for that world) in the end. Ultimately, the movie didn't really give us any info that we didn't have after watching the original (and the new things there don't gel with the other films, or even internally in many cases).

Now, had the kept the original ending, at least that would have taken things in a new direction. But in the end, it was essentially a prequel, which added nothing to the overall story.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, July 19, 2010 8:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
But in the end, it was essentially a prequel, which added nothing to the overall story.

Agreed.

At least I can say the score was excellent.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, July 19, 2010 10:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
In it's finished form, I don't see it offering all that much that's new, since everything is back to status quo (for that world) in the end. Ultimately, the movie didn't really give us any info that we didn't have after watching the original (and the new things there don't gel with the other films, or even internally in many cases).

Now, had the kept the original ending, at least that would have taken things in a new direction. But in the end, it was essentially a prequel, which added nothing to the overall story.

From what I heard about the original ending if they really went with that I would have be super pissed. They already didn't offer up the movie I wanted to see. Then if they took the other movie out of the realm of possibility entirely then I'd really be up in arms.

What I really don't like is movies that should be building up to a big finale, but when you think about it the "big event" wasn't all that important. That's TS for me. Assuming John doesn't go off and die then what was the big deal if they attacked the machine base or not? It was just some little outpost for the machines. Nothing was really accomplished. It was just a tiny battle in a war that hadn't really begun. Why should I care?

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Monday, July 19, 2010 4:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:

From what I heard about the original ending if they really went with that I would have be super pissed.
They already didn't offer up the movie I wanted to see. Then if they took the other movie out of the realm of possibility entirely then I'd really be up in arms.

In a movie about time traveling cyborgs.... you HADN'T hit that point yet??? I don't think it would have been any more implausible than what they've done throughout the rest of the series.

I liked the original ending specifically because it would have pissed people off (well, that and it would have actually made thematic sense in terms of what the rest of the movie, even the title, was building to). It would have taken the gloves off, no more constantly creeping toward a plot point we already know, and have allowed for some more original storytelling.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, July 20, 2010 3:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
In a movie about time traveling cyborgs.... you HADN'T hit that point yet??? I don't think it would have been any more implausible than what they've done throughout the rest of the series.

I liked the original ending specifically because it would have pissed people off (well, that and it would have actually made thematic sense in terms of what the rest of the movie, even the title, was building to). It would have taken the gloves off, no more constantly creeping toward a plot point we already know, and have allowed for some more original storytelling.

I'm actually all for them changing where things are headed, but they have to keep the main character of the series around.

My own idea for where the war should have gone is that John is not the John Connor who turned the tide of the war. The real John Connor had a Dad from the normal timeline. However, that events of the first terminator changed things. Sarah still named her son John but he had a different father and upbringing. The movies should deal with John coming to terms with the fact that he's not the savior. Humanity should be on the brink of extinction and there should be a real sense of fear that the terminators could win. John's goal then would be to find a way to restore the original timeline. Find the time machine and go back to prevent the events of the original movie.

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Tuesday, July 20, 2010 4:45 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Out of ten:

Terminator- 9.7 For it's time it was cutting edge and the concept really sucked me in.

Terminator 2- 9.1 While the special effects were excellent, the story good, and a worthy sequel Sarah came across as way too hard to me especially in comparison to the way she is portrayed in the tv series. The silly things that John made the terminator do and say just never jived with me either so it took away from the movie a bit for me.

Terminator 3- 5 I thought John was portrayed as way too weak for someone his age that was raised by Sarah Connor to survive Judgement Day. Just not well written at all. The story itself seemed weak too. They could have done much more with it.

Terminator Salvation: The Machinima Series- 6 Thought it was fairly well done as far as animation goes, but the story could have been far better.

Terminator: Salvation- 6 Though I liked Bale as John, and the twist on how he came to be in overall command of the Resistance, I thought Marcus stole the spotlight, which took away from the film for me since John is supposed to be the pivotal character, not Marcus. The script was okay, but like others above it could have been so much better with the right writer.

Terminator: TSCC- 7.5 (I agree with your ranking on this one Chris and your reasoning for it. Though there were some weak episodes, and the story for getting them advanced in time to modern day and past Sarah's death by cancer, overall the series was good. The cancellation and cliffhanger ending really left me with a bad taste in my mouth too and thus the rating.

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Tuesday, July 20, 2010 6:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:

I'm actually all for them changing where things are headed, but they have to keep the main character of the series around.

I suppose I don't really consider Joh the "main" character of the franchise. Just the last 2 films. I feel like, especially in light of the first movie and much of Salvation, it's more the "idea" of Connor the Savior that's central. And forcing someone else into that position would have, to me, been an interesting story to explore.

Quote:
My own idea for where the war should have gone is that John is not the John Connor who turned the tide of the war. The real John Connor had a Dad from the normal timeline. However, that events of the first terminator changed things. Sarah still named her son John but he had a different father and upbringing. The movies should deal with John coming to terms with the fact that he's not the savior. Humanity should be on the brink of extinction and there should be a real sense of fear that the terminators could win. John's goal then would be to find a way to restore the original timeline. Find the time machine and go back to prevent the events of the original movie.

I like the idea of John facing not being the savior, and a general tone of desperation and "we might actually loose", but the plot sounds a bit overly convoluted.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, July 20, 2010 6:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
I like the idea of John facing not being the savior, and a general tone of desperation and "we might actually loose", but the plot sounds a bit overly convoluted.

That's why they'll never hire me to write the next film

Though I still think it would have worked better than Salvation. hehe

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Tuesday, July 20, 2010 7:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
ked the original ending specifically because it
My own idea for where the war should have gone is that John is not the John Connor who turned the tide of the war. The real John Connor had a Dad from the normal timeline. However, that events of the first terminator changed things. Sarah still named her son John but he had a different father and upbringing. The movies should deal with John coming to terms with the fact that he's not the savior. Humanity should be on the brink of extinction and there should be a real sense of fear that the terminators could win. John's goal then would be to find a way to restore the original timeline. Find the time machine and go back to prevent the events of the original movie.

You understand time paradoxes well indeed, Zeek!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, July 20, 2010 8:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
You understand time paradoxes well indeed, Zeek!

I definitely subscribe to time being linear. Even with time travel I still can't comprehend a way for everything to happen all at once. Besides if that's the case then I'd have to believe in fate as well, because everything from now through eternity already happened and it's just going to play out. Zeek does not want.

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Tuesday, July 20, 2010 9:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:

I definitely subscribe to time being linear.

Me too.
A while ago I was directed by someone here to a time travel site that explained the John Connor paradox, which allowed me to like T1&2 once more.

For a time, I owned T2 The Ultimate Edition, and if you clicked an easter egg, when the movie played, the final scene in the flick was a happy ending where Judgement Day never happened. But I actually like *wondering* if it would still happen, so now I own the Extreme Edition (plus it's better picture & sound).

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 5, 2010 10:27 AM

I finally got to see Terminator Salvation. I have to say I loved it! I think it may be the best of the lot because it's really the only movie that is jam-packed with terminator and Skynet stuff. Second viewing sealed it for me. Outstanding start of the resistance war, and all the main characters from the "time-travel" prequels.

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Thursday, August 5, 2010 11:32 AM

CYBERSNARK

See, for me, TSCC dealt with Judgement Day the right way; the event itself is inevitable. Destroy the nascent Skynet in one form and another will emerge. The primary goal (destroying Skynet) will never accomplish more than to change the date --and runs the risk that if you push Judgement Day too far forward, John will be too old (or too broken by his "training") to fight effectively.

Instead, while you can't change the fact that Judgement Day happens, you might be able to change the Judgement itself --by replacing the coldly pragmatic "Turk" Skynet with the kinder, gentler "John Henry" Skynet. Humanity will be judged. . . and found worthy.

Note that Derek and Jesse eventually realized that they came from different (yet similar) iterations of the future --suggesting that the future wasn't so much being overwritten as the timeline's "wavefront" being bumped to different future timestreams.

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
I definitely subscribe to time being linear. Even with time travel I still can't comprehend a way for everything to happen all at once. Besides if that's the case then I'd have to believe in fate as well, because everything from now through eternity already happened and it's just going to play out.

Not necessarily.

Linear causality doesn't override quantum randomness. Let's say I'm debating where to go for supper (I'm not, 'cause it's 8-billion degrees outside, but let's pretend). I'll flip a coin: heads for pizza, tails for chicken.

Right there, I've just created (at least) three different timelines:
Timeline A: I go for pizza.

Timeline B: I go for chicken.

Timeline C: I decide to eat at home.

As a linear being, I experience just one timestream --either A, B, or C. But on a quantum level, all three timelines exist, and, fourth-dimensionally, have always existed. Fate is only an illusion borne of linear perspective, subject to differing choices.

In this model, altering the future is more a matter of altering your subjective course along a specific timestream.

So. . . yes. Everything that has ever happened/will ever happen/could ever have happened/could ever happen yet have already played out. We just only happen to see the one particular path we're on at any given (subjective) moment.

The "dark futures" that follow Judgement Day will still exist (because they do/did), but they don't matter because "the Observer" will have/has already found the "right" future.

In effect, John Connor has already won the war --we just don't know if we're watching the right timeline.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, August 5, 2010 11:41 AM

WHOZIT

Terminator: Salvation, I want those 2 hours of my life back!

Those arn't boobs, they're lies! - Stewie Griffin

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Thursday, August 5, 2010 11:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I finally got to see Terminator Salvation. I have to say I loved it!

Them's strong words, pardner.

I get a kick every time- seen it five times now.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 5, 2010 11:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Linear causality doesn't override quantum randomness. Let's say I'm debating where to go for supper (I'm not, 'cause it's 8-billion degrees outside, but let's pretend). I'll flip a coin: heads for pizza, tails for chicken.

Right there, I've just created (at least) three different timelines:
Timeline A: I go for pizza.

Timeline B: I go for chicken.

Timeline C: I decide to eat at home.

As a linear being, I experience just one timestream --either A, B, or C. But on a quantum level, all three timelines exist, and, fourth-dimensionally, have always existed. Fate is only an illusion borne of linear perspective, subject to differing choices.

In this model, altering the future is more a matter of altering your subjective course along a specific timestream.

So. . . yes. Everything that has ever happened/will ever happen/could ever have happened/could ever happen yet have already played out. We just only happen to see the one particular path we're on at any given (subjective) moment.

The "dark futures" that follow Judgement Day will still exist (because they do/did), but they don't matter because "the Observer" will have/has already found the "right" future.

In effect, John Connor has already won the war --we just don't know if we're watching the right timeline.

The part that doesn't make any sense to me about that is our decisions are just chemical reactions going off in our brain. Why would the chemical reaction have a different outcome? Given the same stimuli you should reach the same decision every time. So, there's no alternate universe based on different possible choices. You being you will always make the choice that you make.

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Friday, August 6, 2010 1:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I finally got to see Terminator Salvation. I have to say I loved it!
Them's strong words, pardner.

I get a kick every time- seen it five times now.

The laughing Chrisisall

I guess I could summarize my feelings for the flick by saying that it was the Terminator movie I've been waiting to see for 25 years. The first 3 were all basically chase movies that never really ever got into the meat of what it was all about. They all had tiny glimpses of the future machine war, but that is what I always wanted to see anyhow. Terminator Salvation has it all! Plus it has some of my favorite actors: Sam Worthington, Michael Ironside, the kid who played Chekov from Trek, and Christian Bale. I thought they were all terrific! I loved the many different types of machines, early models we never saw before, and some pretty awesome ones at that. I thought the post-nuclear landscape was extremely well conceived too. This movie made all the ones that preceded it believeable, and I imagine that if more Terminator movies are made, we will eventually see John Connor and Kyle Reese find the time travel device that will complete the circle. I resisted seeing this movie mainly because I'm not a big Christian Bale fan. Not that he's a bad actor or anything, but it just seemed silly to me that he seemed to be in every big role movie that came out for a while. I didn't even know who Sam Worthington was until I saw Avatar, and I really like his acting style. He was fantastic in Terminator Salvation. And of course I'll see anything with Michael Ironside in it. He was, is, and will always be....the MAN!

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Friday, August 6, 2010 8:59 AM

Jong, I see we are entirely of one mind here.
Have you seen the deleted scenes? If you got blu-ray then you have them in the "Director's Cut." I have the DVD so I took a look at them online. I thought the movie worked a little better without them.
Although, Moon...whoah.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, August 6, 2010 10:01 AM

Chris, I don't have the DVD, but I made a DVD from an HBO airing. Glad to hear you love the movie too.

And this challenge is for you.......

Do you recognize the go-go dancer pictured above Chuck Berry?

How about now?

It's our own beloved ditzy hippie girl Miss Roberta Lincoln, aka Teri Garr from Star Trek. She danced with the Shindig Dancers 4 years before Star Trek, and she was 17 years old when she danced at the T.A.M.I. Show in 1964. If you don't have that DVD you're really missing something special.

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Friday, August 6, 2010 10:43 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Terminator : 9.5 It's simply brilliant. It's grainy dark hues give it plenty of fear factor and the 'jerky' robot animation just lends itself so well to how a robot with that design would move. Arnie was never better than this. A role he was made for! Cracking score by Brad Fidel too - makes this a tough film to beat. Given the complexity of it's superb ending - Cameron's finest perhaps...?

Terminator 2 : 7 It's slick as snot but severly sanitized. Arnie IS the terminator, making him the protector was a mistake! Robert Patrick is sublime but somehow his shiny svelt self doesn't quite cut it for the finalé. Great nuclear bomb nightmare scenes though. But a poor slow mid section and the buddy buddy nature of this segment weakens the premise hugely....

Terminator 3 : 5 Lazy casting in favour of action set-pieces renders this nothing special. Even Arnie coming back doesn't raise this much. Run of the mill pacing through-out made this difficult to sit through but I must admit I did enjoy the way it ended.

Terminator Salvation: The Machinima Series- Waddat den?

Terminator: Salvation Not fussed.

Terminator: TSCC : 4 I only watched a few due to the extremely morose nature of the premise. River was great in it though. However by now I really just didn't care what happened to John Connor. In fact I think I wanted him to die, just to see what would happen with the timeline.....

To sum up though - I think the sequels have done little to really take the story any further than the first Terminator, and really aside from some fancy effects did we really gain anything more from having watched 2,3, et al...?

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

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Friday, August 6, 2010 11:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:

Terminator: Salvation Not fussed.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, August 6, 2010 11:13 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

...Meaning I haven't seen it yet Chris. I think because I've grown weary of the whole premise...

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

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Friday, August 6, 2010 11:26 AM

WHOZIT

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Chris, I don't have the DVD, but I made a DVD from an HBO airing. Glad to hear you love the movie too.

And this challenge is for you.......

Do you recognize the go-go dancer pictured above Chuck Berry?

How about now?

It's our own beloved ditzy hippie girl Miss Roberta Lincoln, aka Teri Garr from Star Trek. She danced with the Shindig Dancers 4 years before Star Trek, and she was 17 years old when she danced at the T.A.M.I. Show in 1964. If you don't have that DVD you're really missing something special.

FYI; PBS has been running the T.A.M.I. Show every now again, it's fantastic

Those arn't boobs, they're lies! - Stewie Griffin

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Friday, August 6, 2010 11:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
...Meaning I haven't seen it yet Chris. I think because I've grown weary of the whole premise...

I didn't see it until recently because I didn't think it would be ANY good. But, worth a look, especially if you wasted your time on #3.

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, August 6, 2010 12:25 PM