Stop attacking Star Wars prequels? Here come the Sith by Succatash

OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

Stop attacking Star Wars prequels? Here come the Sith

POSTED BY: SUCCATASH
UPDATED: Monday, July 26, 2004 12:44
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VIEWED: 6273
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Saturday, July 24, 2004 5:54 PM

Let's stop attacking Star Wars and George Lucas. For the sake of Serenity, plain and simple. We want to invite Star Wars fans to give Serenity a chance. However, most of us on this board bash their 'verse (especially the prequels) without mercy. We're not giving Revenge of the Sith a chance. We are not being fair.

If I came from Star Wars fandom to this site to learn about Firefly, I would leave. Everyone here is so negative about the "new" Star Wars and I think the end result is insulting to many SW fans and also detrimental to Serenity's bottom line financially. One of our goals should be to convert Star Wars fans. Driving them away won't help.

The fact is, both movies are coming out close together and the attitude of Us vs Them is not the correct strategy.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

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Saturday, July 24, 2004 6:17 PM

EMBERS

actually I don't know of any Star War fans who haven't done their own bashing of the prequels...

some are still optomistic about this last one
(God knows why they would be)
and I agree that if we run across someone like that we should be kind and inclusive...
but I haven't heard of anyone who thought the prequels of Star Wars compairs favorably to the original trilogy.

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Saturday, July 24, 2004 6:26 PM

SUCCATASH

I didn't say it would be easy. It's a fine line between honest criticism and fandom ridicule.

By now, a Star Wars Browncoat should have made a fanvid and changed Mal's sword into a lightsaber (Shindig).

Why hasn't that happened? THAT'S the real question.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

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Saturday, July 24, 2004 6:29 PM

EMBERS

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:

By now, a Star Wars Browncoat should have made a fanvid and changed Mal's sword into a lightsaber (Shindig).

Oh didn't you see the WP of Yoda singing the Firefly theme
with his own unique grammer of course....

now where did I put that link?.....
(wonders off to find the Yoda thing...)

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Saturday, July 24, 2004 6:43 PM

SUCCATASH

Star Wars Browncoats = $$$

Can we overlook Greedo shooting first, countless other violations, crappy dialogue, plot, and Jar Jar Binks?

Yes, we can. But how?

Here's how. Just close your eyes and think about lightsabers and Darth Vader, and lightsabers.

Then hug a Star Wars fan. Do it for money.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

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Saturday, July 24, 2004 6:52 PM

EDWARDBASS

A HUGE Star Wars fan here - but also a HUGE Firefly fan!! I agree - do whatever possible (or perhaps don't do what's possible) regarding bashing SW! Face it, the Firefly fan base is significantly smaller than the SW fan base. For "Serenity" to be successful really requires "bleedover" from other Sci-Fi genres. If the movie is to be a financial success (ensuring future movies), it must draw in lots and lots and lots of people who aren't already Firefly fans. Bring 'em on - I'm sure the movie will be spectacular!

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Saturday, July 24, 2004 8:10 PM

BEATLE

I'd like to know the diff between those who grew up watching the Star Wars movies come out, and those who grew up watching them through VHS or re-releases.
Most of those I know, like me, can remmeber watching the original releases at the theaters. And I have not heard one of them, like me, say that the prequels were all that great. A lot of them have in fact disliked the prequels.
Most things in the new SW's movies did not bother me, like Jar-Jar. No different than the Ewoks or for that matter the droids and Chewie.
But a lot of things really did bug me that I thought asinine of Lucas. Like taking a blood sample to determine the Force. I forget what they called it, but the whole speech by Obie in Star Wars tells me it's not measurable by a blood sample.
However I did like the idea of "Vadar" creating C-3PO and I can't wait to see how it's explained that the droids knew Anakin yet it's not told in the original three movies they knew him. Of course, if they don't explain that then I will be a bit confused. But I have heard from some that it will all come into place.

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Saturday, July 24, 2004 10:46 PM

BEATLE

In addition to the title, Lucasfilm also sent concept artist Ryan Church to show off drawings of a Wookie tree civilization from "Episode III" and played footage of Christensen's climactic light-saber duel -- minus all the special effects -- with co-star Ewan McGregor, who plays Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Interesting...

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Saturday, July 24, 2004 11:46 PM

RECHELON

Sigh.

I'm so tired. I'll make this quick.

THE PREQUELS ARE GOOD MOVIES. I enjoyed them. Everyone walking out of my opening day viewing of Ep 1 liked it. They were happy. We all had complaints, but, the whole was still loved. Stayed that way for almost a month. Then suddenly all our little complaints became huge indictments of George Lucas's cold marketing and inability to tell a story. I watched a few trolls take an occasionally marginally annoying character and turn it into a pop culture synonym for a totally backfired enterprise.

I watched George Lucas cave in to fan demands (blind war focus, yoda fight) albeit gracefully and then two months after II's release suddenly it sucks. Yall got hatin' issues.

No. Han Solo doesn't get to come flying out and blast you back to your adolescence. No. The special effects don't look like Styrofoam. No. This isn't your movie.

The prequels are the fleshing out of a story. It's got different themes from the 70s. The flare pants are gone. The political situation is demonstrated for no more than 15 minutes per movie. Ep I, I'm told repeatedly, was nothing more than fancy aliens talking.

Well tough. I'm in love with the Star Wars epic. I've always known Vader was Luke’s father, I think Empire is highly overrated.

I've had nothing but fun so far.

Those of you who want to stew in your own disappointment and hatred can do so. But shut up.

Everyone has complaints, but in the last five years I've yet to hear a single fan with a better idea for the prequel trilogy.

...There. Wasn't short. But I didn't use any expletives, and that took some effort. Every Star Wars movie has been high caliber Space Fantasy. Firefly is simply high caliber. But I swear, if I hear more of this StarWars sux now, and George Lucas is just stupid/perverted/greedy, I'ma gonna have to re-evaluate my (high) respect for Browncoats.

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Sunday, July 25, 2004 2:28 AM

CHRONICTHEHEDGEHOG

Woohoo! Someone else who liked the prequals, there's two of us now!

My only big dissapointment from the prequals was the pod race. I thought it went on too long and was just a game advertisement. I actually like Jar-Jar! Not as a character, but as the plot point he needed to be in Episode II. What other way would there be to grant the chancellor emergency powers? Give it to one of the good guys and have them flamed by fanboys forever? Or have a character that's simple, and is there for only that purpose. Made sense to me.

Okay, the acting's not perfect and some of the dialogue is awful, but it was the same in the originals. Anyone who can't see that has nostalgia blinkers on.

I think I actually like Episode I now more than when I first saw it, it brings you to Episode II nicely which will, in turn, lead nicely into Episode III which will hopefully lead into Episode IV.

check out my WIP firefly roleplay system at www.estador.co.uk/firefly

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Sunday, July 25, 2004 3:17 AM

TETHYS

I and a BIG Star Wars fan...though I will admit I vastly prefer our 'verse to that one.....and I have definately seen hardcore SW fans trashing the prequels.......

I like them ok as far as a movie goes...though some thing s make about as much sense as Jayne possibly shaving his head, giving up women, booze, and money by joining a monastary....

I personally look more forward to the BDM than to episode 3 of SW.........

Joss in....George out........survival of the fittest.....hmmmmmmm

"You replaced Firefly with *barf* Fastlane?!"
Zoe:"Take me Sir. Take me hard" - War Stories

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Sunday, July 25, 2004 4:50 AM

QUIXOTICONE

Hope I didn't start something with my tag :)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Star Wars in general. I've been a hard-core Star Wars fan for my entire life - one of my earliest memories is watching 'A New Hope' at the movies... I've even been a big supporter of the prequels...

That said, I'm not as enraptured as I once was. Between some of the updated footage (Greedo shooting first (argh!), the music video, etc), the whole Jar Jar deal, the possibility of boy bands, and now the announcement of the new movie title - I'm disappointed... Some of the recent choices/moves made for the Saga are head-scratching. I *do* have every bit of faith the movie will be very rewarding, and as tagged by JustAShepherd, I *will* be there for the midnight show as well as other viewings... I just think the Star Wars image has been tarnished as of late, and I'm a little bitter to see it that way. Like watching your favorite athlete playing past their prime, you hate to see them struggle...

Ah, maybe I'm just spoiled by Firefly and the potential of Serenity, but I think it's time for the rookie take the ball and run to glory :)

-QO-

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Sunday, July 25, 2004 5:55 AM

EDWARDBASS

I saw 'A New Hope' in theaters numerous times in '77 and '78, so I'm a big SW fan, but not fanatical about it. I've enjoyed the prequels from the standpoint that they expand upon the story. The effects and sets are great, but most of the characters and story is absolutely awful. The telling difference? I saw Episodes IV, V and VI in theaters multiple times. Ep 1 and 2 I've watched twice in theaters (once by myself because my family won't go to watch it at midnight with me and once with the family). Then I wait for the DVD. I'm seriously dissapointed with the prequels, but still support them because if they make big $$$, maybe episodes 7-9 will get made in a quality way.

Firefly is amazing in how involved it gets you with the characters, the "'verse" as everyone likes to call it and the ongoing storyline. I want to see the next movie not for effects or action, but to see the characters grow and the storyline advance - and for the humor! My wife and I can't wait. She's a bigger fan than me - which for sci-fi stuff is unusual - I'm usually passionate about SF stuff. Bring it on! Heck, this might be the first movie where we hire a babysitter and we BOTH go to the midnight showing!

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Sunday, July 25, 2004 6:09 AM

SOPRANOSBROWNCOAT

I think we've all outgrown Star Wars in some way. The prequels aren't terrible, but there are moments when they make me cringe; the original trilogy doesn't do that. Granted, I've been watching them since I was five, but somehow the prequels just aren't doing it. When I watch Episodes IV, V, and VI, on some level I still feel like that little kid eating C-3PO's for breakfast and using sticks from the backyard as lightsabers; when I watch Episode I and Episode II, the feeling I have is probably best described as "ehhhh. . ." I don't think kids today watch the prequels and imagine themselves as Anakin Skywalker or Mace Windu, and cringe in terror at the appearance of Count Dooku (come on, even that name sounds kinda silly when you think about it); the prequels may have their moments, but they don't have the magic. And as for "conversion," I think I've found that most people are at least casual Star Wars fans, and share the same "blah" feeling about the prequels, so if they see "prequel bashing," they're more likely to join in and watch a Firefly episode as a result, rather than get scared off. Anyway, that's my two cents.

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Sunday, July 25, 2004 7:04 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I was already an adult, and a big SF fan, when Star Wars premiered in '77. I am one of the ones who refuses to refer to the original film by its subtitle, to me it will always be Star Wars, period. It didn't get the 'A New Hope' tag until several years later in re-release. My disillusionment with the saga actually began with Return of the Jedi, as I did not care for the Ewoks, too cutesy for me and seemed to be playing to a much younger audience. I'm not sure why Lucas felt the need for the Special Editions, since just prior to that he had issued remastered editions of the original trilogy which cleaned up a lot of the more obvious FX flaws. The additions didn't add anything to the story, and in fact in my opinion some of them looked even more fake than the originals.

As far as I'm concerned, there's only one thing wrong with the two prequels so far, that being Lucas' casting choices for the role of Annakin. Neither Jake Lloyd or Hayden Christiansen can act worth a flip, or at least didn't show it in these films. And I find it hard to picture Hayden morphing into Vader, but I will go to see Ep3. Probably not opening weekend, and I doubt if I will see it multiple times like I did with the original trilogy, and like I definitely will for Serenity.

ETA: I became a film projectionist in '78, and worked in theatres running The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. One of my major regrets is not having acquired one of the original posters for the final film, when its title was "Revenge of the Jedi." I would think those might be worth quite a bit right now.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Sunday, July 25, 2004 8:34 AM

ANKHAGOGO

Quote:
Originally posted by rechelon:
Everyone has complaints, but in the last five years I've yet to hear a single fan with a better idea for the prequel trilogy.

I've seen Star Wars (and I agree with whoever said that they refuse to call it "A New Hope") more times than you will ever get me to admit, and I don't care much for the new ones, though I am curious to see what the third one's gonna be like.

I don't think that the ideas for the prequel trilogy were bad, or improbable or out of place or even dull, as a lot of people have said. I like all the backstory -- I find the history angle very interesting.
Here's the thing, I think, at least for me --
George Lucas can plot like a son of a building block. He has come up with interesting storylines. He has come up with a very detailed universe, which is a fairly difficult thing to do.
He is not, however,a good writer, on the whole. There is a huge difference in those two things.
Another thing is that the love story plays a big part in Part 2, and Lucas' love-story writing is greatly lacking. Lots of people's are. They're not easy to write at all, especially when everyone watching knows what's coming.
I suspect that all three would be much better if he had let someone else do the actual script writing. That's my biggest gripe -- I like the ideas, I like the politics, frankly, and, although I don't care much for Hayden Christensen, it could have been much, much worse. And I think Ewan McGregor was an inspired choice. But Lucas writing is like Tarantino acting: no-one seems to be able to tell them that they don't do it that well, so they keep doing it.

Well, I also have CGI issues, but those are definitely not exclusive to Star Wars movies. I have CGI issues with loads of movies.

::edit::
Oh, yeah, the point of the thread, right:

I don't see any reason why Browncoats and Star Wars fans should feel the need to compete. I never understood why Star Wars and Star Trek fans were/are at each other's throats all the time. Sure, I like one more than the other, but that doesn't mean I can't like both, in some way. Or all three, which I do. It's just silly to get into a "our show is better than your show" arguement.

"You two are the two who are the two! I'm the other one!"

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Sunday, July 25, 2004 10:43 AM

JADEHAND

I've always loved Star Wars. I was like 6 when I saw it in the theatre. And I remember seeing it then and my eldest brother getting me out of school early for "family emergencies" to see the first showing of Empire and Jedi (as well as the Indiana Jones flicks). So I've felt a need to see the first showing of the prequels(midnight showings). I'll see episode III at midnight on day one. I'll see Serenity at midnight on day one if they show it, as well as every showing after that on day one and day two (as I've heard sun #'s don't really count towards weekend box office, if this is incorrect let me know and I'll see every show on sunday too ). I love story of Star Wars, but agree that casting could have been better in some cases. I'll not bash Star Wars, but I'll comment on things that I didn't care for. Even some of the things added in "special editions" detracted from the films, not the least of which was Greedo shooting first. Luke screams when he lets go in cloud city in Empire? Before he was strong willed and giving Vader a big F you, now he's a scared little girl. But the prequels show being a whiner runs in the skywalker family. I know we were supposed to see Anikan as young and innocent in episode I, but seeing the future Darth Vader exclaim "yippeee!" just hurt a little. and the whole " one day *sniff sniff* I'm gonna be the strongest jedi ever *sniff sniff*" . Ouch. The strong powerful leading characters (heroes or not) shouldn't be whiners. I hope III turns it around, like I said I'm planing to see it. I've enjoyed seeing the Back story, just wish they had worked at the spirit of the original 3 films a little more.

Visit WWW.Marillion.Com for a better way to live

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Sunday, July 25, 2004 11:07 AM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Quote:
Originally posted by embers:
actually I don't know of any Star War fans who haven't done their own bashing of the prequels...

If you haven't seen it, Simon Pegg in Spaced had the greatest comment from a fan to Lucas on the prequels. 1 year on, he is still bitter, and there is a flashback to him dressed as Luke in Jedi, the funeral pyre scene - except what he is burning is all his Star Wars merchandise.

"I threw up on your bed"

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Sunday, July 25, 2004 1:04 PM

NERVOUSPETE

Spaced, is of course, utterly awesome. My dedication runs to painstakingly transcripting a scene.

(Shot of Tim in 'Fantasy Bazaar', an unusually cool comic shop in London. He is standing behind the counter ranting at someone we cannot see.)
Tim: "You are so blind! You so do not understand! You were'nt there at the beginning! You don't know how good it was, how important! This is it for you, a jumped up firework display of a toy-advert! People like you make me sick, what's wrong with you!?"

(Camera cuts to reveal the victim of the tirade, a poor, bewildered, upset looking child - now cut back to Tim)

Tim: "Now, I don't care if you've saved up all your 50p's, okay? Take your pocket money - and (shouting now) get out!"

(Shot of lil'l kid running down the street from the store, crying in a shocked and high pitched childish way)

Tim: "What a prick."

(Tim turns and jumps as he suddenly sees his bearded, long haired boss next to him, Bilbo Bagshot.)

Bilbo: "Tim, could I have a word with you in my office?"

Tim: "Yes."

Tim walks past Bilbo into the office, Bilbo follows him in, somewhat menacingly.

Bilbo: "Have a seat, Tim."

Bilbo: (Offers bowl of nobbly sticks to Tim) "Twiglet?"

Tim: "No, better not."

Bilbo: "I was like you once, blonde hair, scraggly little beard, child-like ears - full of beans and spunk. I let my principles get in the way soemtimes, I punched a bloke in the face once for saying Hawk the Slayer was rubbish."

Tim: "Good for you."

Bilbo: (Wistfully)"Yeah, thanks."

Bilbo: (Turning serious) "But that's not the point, Tim. The point is, I was defending the fantasy genre with terminal intensity. When what I should have said was, Dad, you're right - but let's give Krull a try, and discuss it later. The Phantom Menace was eighteen months ago, Tim!"

Tim: "I know, Bilbo, okay, it still hurts! I mean that kid wanted a Jar-Jar doll!"

Bilbo: "Kids like Jar-Jar!"

Tim: "Why?"

Bilbo: "What about the Ewoks? THey were rubbish! YOu don't complain about them.

Tim: (Shouting) "Yeah, but the Ewoks make Jar-Jar look like... fucking Shaft!"

Bilbo: "I've had enough Tim."

Tim: "But Bilbo!"

Bilbo: "Look, I know how you feel, I really do. But this can't go on."

Tim: "What are you trying to say, Bilbo?"

Bilbo: (Solemnly) "I'm going to have to let you go."

Tim: (Look of intense relief on Tim's face. He wipes his brow) "Phew! Ha ha ha! I mean, 'Erk!' Ha ha ha! I thought you were gonna fire me then. Ha ha ha! I was like - 'erk!' I mean, phew. Ha ha! Look at that! (Holds up shaking hands) Ha ha ha."

(Suddenly realisation dawns on Tim's face. Sinister horror note plays. The camera zooms into Bilbo's face. He nods his head.)

(Camera zooms into Tim's face, mouth open with horror)

(Cut to outside of Fantasy Bazaar, Tim runs down the street at exactly the same camera angle and in exactly the same manner as the little kid, sobbing like a child)

Being big Joss Whedon fans, I hope they mention Firefly in one of their many culture references (around sixty references a show, including a melancholy end to an episode carefully built around the dialogue of the last scene of Empire Strikes Back, only set in London. "There are over a thousand off-licenses in this area, she could be in any one of them."

Sorry. Heh heh. Watch Spaced.

Nervous Pete

"If you can keep your head whilst others... eurgh! Ack! I've spilt my ink! Ugh! Ink on my trousers! Agh! Ink on my shirt! My only hope! The window! Aieeeeee!" (Falls to death)
- Jonathan Nash

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Monday, July 26, 2004 1:21 AM

GROUNDED

I liked the prequels too, although the 2nd a lot more than the 1st. There, I said it ;)

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Monday, July 26, 2004 11:42 AM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES

Quote:
Originally posted by NervousPete:
Being big Joss Whedon fans, I hope they mention Firefly in one of their many culture references

Hell yeah (everyone waking up from a nightmare, and Tim yells out "buffy!")

I think Simon Pegg has said there are no immediate plans for a third season, but they would like to do one more. I'm guessing that provided Shaun of the Dead does well in the US, they'll be concentrating on the movies though (heard that before somewhere)

"I threw up on your bed"

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Monday, July 26, 2004 12:44 PM

CUNKNOWN

Okay, I agree with the idea that we want as many people as possible to watch Firefly and Serenity, even Star Wars fans. And while bashing for the sake of bashing is a bad idea (and in bad taste), people are definately entitled to their own opinions on the new Star Wars trilogy.

Let's face it, the new trilogy has been at least as big a disappointment as the new Matrix movies. I would say even a bigger disappointment, since the Matrix movies at least had good special effects and no Jar-Jar.

On the other hand, Episode I and II aren't -bad- movies. Although the acting and computer animation has been generally poor, the stories, action, and lightsabre battles have been fun. The problem is...these movies aren't supposed to be just average, they're supposed to be STAR WARS, and they're not. They don't live up to the name. The originals are cherished classics, while the new movies will probably be looked back on as 'Oh, just something else that came out that year.'

I love Star Wars, and that's the problem. I don't see this as Star Wars bashing, but rather Star Wars defending.

By the way, I do agree that Star Wars (ep. IV) and Empire Strikes Back are by far the best of the original trilogy. The slide started with Jedi, although that one was still very good..it's much better than either ep. I or II.

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