George Lucas loses his mind by OPPYH

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Wow. Huh.... Couldn't disagree more, who needs character arcs? But okay...

Ha, yeah we often disagree. I felt the Abyss was burdened with similar dead weight. Not sure why you make the leap that I don't appreciate character arcs (I take it that's the implication?). Did you think Ripley had no arc without that?

I went back and excised the character arc part, as it was overly aggressive...

But, I do think her arc is greatly diminished by loosing that aspect, yes. Sure, you could assume that she's so dedicated to Newt just out of biological instincts, but I feel it's FAR more powerful for her to have lost a child, and see Newt as a surrogate. It gives her a much stronger arc, based on her background, rather than an arbitrary biological drive.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, September 2, 2011 6:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Oldguy:
Agreed.. I imagined quite a different story line..where Darth was the clone of Luke's father who was an outcast jedi who turned out to be bobbafet..given that bounty hunter was the only one slick enough to catch them to begin with and since he was hidden behind his helmit..it coulda been a great path to take...but ol George had to go try and sell some little kids on some teddy bears...wtf?

Huh? So Boba Fett would be a jedi and Luke and Leia's actual father. He at some point became a bounty hunter and was also working for his evil clone during Empire. He turned his son over to his evil clone and just up and left? Would he just not know that Luke is his son or would he be doing all that just to test Luke or something? Seems like a pretty deadly game to play.

Plus then it would be really difficult for Obiwan to downplay his BS about Vader betraying and murdering Luke's father. "Uh you see I mean...well...I've got this thing where I like to leave right when it looks like a person is likely to die and just assume it happened. It's a minor flaw in my honest opinion."

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Friday, September 2, 2011 8:23 AM

LOL. Yeah. Ive heard a lot of "Boba should have been the other Skywalker" theories (which I could see working) but Boba as Anakin.... yeah, doesn't quote fit.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, September 2, 2011 10:11 AM

OLDGUY

What Would Mal do ?

ok you young bucks... (man these star war geeks are intense ) (grin)

remember that at the time I formulated this story plot, I only had the first 2 movies (epi's 4 & 5) to work from..Lucas hadn't yet screwed up things and then made them worse with epis 1-3.

so I was seeing it as, Darth being the evil clone - they made a big reference to clone wars in the first movie..so it seemed a possibility...and Ani hiding and watching over Luke from the Boba aspect...as a jedi he could lay low just as well as Obi did and certainly that lil green munchkin puppet guy whatever his name was (I'm kidding!! don't freak)
so anyway..it's possible that Yoda and Obi really wouldn't be in tune and that Ani could continue to lay low but what better way to maintain inside track with the empire than to be free to function off grid legally as a bounty hunter...
I didn't loose any sleep over it..it was just a fun movie series for me.. not a new religion..not like I spent $4,000 in quarters in the sit down video game on my lunch break...ok...well..maybe I did that...

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Friday, September 2, 2011 10:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Oldguy:
ok you young bucks... (man these star war geeks are intense ) (grin)

If you a couple questions and an "LOL" are intense.... you maaaaay want to stay off the internet.

Quote:
remember that at the time I formulated this story plot, I only had the first 2 movies (epi's 4 & 5) to work from..

Oh, I think we both got that. Zeek's questions/points didn't reference the prequels, and were limited to story points established in ANH and ESB.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, September 2, 2011 11:00 AM

Yeah I got all that. I'm just trying to make the pieces fit. So, he was watching over Luke but just left him on Cloud City with his evil clone while also taking a few pot shots at Luke? What about Leia? He pretty much handed her over to Vader unless he didn't know she was on the Millennium Falcon before he tipped the Empire off. I can't think of a way those actions would have actually been good.

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Friday, September 2, 2011 12:48 PM

OPPYH

OK, course change.

The prequels suck because:

-Darth Vader, the coolest villain in cinematic history didn't need a back story. His mystery, and aura are tainted by the actor Hayden Christensen. Unless you are a teenage girl, Anakin had no redeeming qualities whatsoever. None. Unless of course you count stupid quotes, and a quick temper as a couple.

-They started in the wrong place.
If you gonna make 3 prequel films.....START WHEN THINGS GET INTERESTING!! Lucas should have started with episode III, and had the following 2 after the Vader becomes Vader.

-Too much CGI.
For the sake of all thats holy....Where are the physical sets? Green Screens are for weathermen.

-No chemistry.
Anakin and Padme, the most 'forced' screen relationship in recent memory.

Sorry,
had to get that off my chest. At the expense of making the OT more prequel accessible, Lucas continues his alterations. Fine for those that love the prequels, torture for the ones that loathe them.

----------------------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

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Friday, September 2, 2011 1:08 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by OPPYH:
-They started in the wrong place.
If you gonna make 3 prequel films.....START WHEN THINGS GET INTERESTING!! Lucas should have started with episode III, and had the following 2 after the Vader becomes Vader.

Sorry,
had to get that off my chest.

Finally a wise & bold solution to the puzzle that is the prequel. I've seen many criticisms, but they all involve changing a scene here and there or sharpening the dialog.
Kaylee said it best about the Phantom Menace: “Sometimes a thing so broke, it can't be fixed.”

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, September 2, 2011 2:46 PM

CHRISISALL

Two, that was pretty gorram funny!!!!!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Friday, September 2, 2011 3:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Wow. Huh.... Couldn't disagree more, who needs character arcs? But okay...

Ha, yeah we often disagree. I felt the Abyss was burdened with similar dead weight. Not sure why you make the leap that I don't appreciate character arcs (I take it that's the implication?). Did you think Ripley had no arc without that?

I went back and excised the character arc part, as it was overly aggressive...

But, I do think her arc is greatly diminished by loosing that aspect, yes. Sure, you could assume that she's so dedicated to Newt just out of biological instincts, but I feel it's FAR more powerful for her to have lost a child, and see Newt as a surrogate. It gives her a much stronger arc, based on her background, rather than an arbitrary biological drive.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

That's fair and I can see why you think it stronger.

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

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Friday, September 2, 2011 4:08 PM

Originally posted by OPPYH:

The prequels suck because:

Quote:
-Darth Vader, the coolest villain in cinematic history didn't need a back story.

So true!

Quote:
-Too much CGI.
For the sake of all thats holy....Where are the physical sets? Green Screens are for weathermen.

I agree with this too. There's also something else here which is that a lot of actors are in the traditional mold and the idea of working with no sets I think affects their acting. For all the negativity toward Christensen I personally think that Ewan is equally as poor. In time I think there will emerge a generation of cinematic actor who is confident in front of green screens. Presently there's always a hint of things being just a little off.

Quote:
Sorry, had to get that off my chest. At the expense of making the OT more prequel accessible, Lucas continues his alterations. Fine for those that love the prequels, torture for the ones that loathe them.

Ha,Ha.

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

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Friday, September 2, 2011 9:22 PM

DJD

The Vader-didn't-need-a-backstory bit is certainly true :)

I remember back in the late 70s loving Splinter of the Minds Eye , the first Star Wars spin off novel. I read it again recently and still kind of wish they'd made a movie out of it ....

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Saturday, September 3, 2011 3:09 AM

LWAVES

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Originally posted by OPPYH:

The prequels suck because:

Quote:
-Darth Vader, the coolest villain in cinematic history didn't need a back story.

So true!

It's so much more than just Vader.
Boba Fett worked as a really cool character partly because you didn't see much of him and knew very little about him. The same goes for the briefly mentioned Clone Wars. Again the power of it worked because it was a mystery, your own imagination would fill in the gaps.
But my biggest issue with the PT is the fact that they explained the force. The one thing over everything else that didn't need explaining. I'm sure everyone got exactly what it was from Ben's speech on the Falcon after they left Tatooine. To then have it diluted to something in the bloodstream was a huge slap in the face. To me this was the worst part of all the prequels, even worse than Jar Jar.

Quote:

For all the negativity toward Christensen I personally think that Ewan is equally as poor. In time I think there will emerge a generation of cinematic actor who is confident in front of green screens. Presently there's always a hint of things being just a little off.

I agree and I actually felt sorry for Ewan. He was becoming an established actor who had done some decent work at the time. He also grew up as a huge SW fan, his uncle was in the OT and then Lucas wants him to play a major role in the prequels. Who wouldn't say yes. There is a behind the scenes clip of the saber fight between Obi-Wan, Qui-gon and Maul where he gets kicked off the platform. His reaction after they shout cut just says it all. He has a big grin and looks like an over-excited kid.
And then you get the final result and even straight after Phantom was released you could listen to any interview about SW with Ewan and you could hear the disappointment in his voice. He's too professional to openly slag them off but if you read into what he says and the way he says it you can easily gather what he really thinks. In a Top Gear interview a few years ago he said that his films 'weren't very good'. I've heard him talk about the blue/green screen work as 'not really acting' and being more of a technical exercise. He also said that he's happy with what he did in the PT but it's not how he likes to work or how he was used to working having come from low budget, indie movies.
On a personal level it must have been disheartening for him to see the final results but I think he was a good choice to cast as Obi-wan and I think he did what he could with the role but none of the actors were really given anything to work with. Except maybe tennis balls and carboard cutouts.

"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Saturday, September 3, 2011 8:56 AM

DJD

Lol. I thought Ewan was the best thing about the films by far. I love the bit in his Long Way Down documentary where he visits the Skywalker homestead in Tunisia. None of the tourists recognise him...

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Saturday, September 3, 2011 5:12 PM

Oh yeah, Ewan's Obi Wan had the only flavour, humour, and character in the entire three prequels. The only one who seemed to really be trying. And he sparkled because of it. It's too bad Natalie was in an awkward acting period, and Hayden, well. Though Lucas's romance dialogue really needs work, and no one could have read those lines.

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Monday, September 19, 2011 11:30 AM

REAVERINA1985RIVIERA

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Quote:
Originally posted by djd:
Lol ! And rude people are hilarious aren't they? I'm well aware of GLs credits. I was talking about as a film maker and writer not as a technician and a businessman. I guess Howard the Duck is on your must-watch list? Oh, and as big old Indiana Jones fan, Lucas has done as much to stall and bugger-up that franchise than help it. I dare say that if were not for Speilberg we'd have cgi monkeys in Raiders by now....

See this one confuses me. Lucas writes/directs Star Wars episodes I, II, III & IV and is slammed.

Lucas co-writes Indy I, II, III, & IV but Spielberg directs Indy I, II, III, & IV and yet Lucas gets slammed?

How's that work?

Surely some of the blame must go to Spielberg - if you're of the opinion that Crystal Skull was bad. You don't think there's a bias there? Not specifically from you DJD, but in general I mean.
Me I like Crystal skull - but I can see why it's not for everyone, but the vitriol lashed out solely against Lucas... That aint on.

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

I'm still pissed Spielberg replaced the guns with walkie-talkies in E.T., it took away alot of the feeling of peril when Eliot escapes on his bike.

---------------------------------------------
How many Jaynes does it take to change a light bulb?

Two. One to try to put it in and another to find a bigger hammer.

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Monday, September 19, 2011 12:08 PM

I actually liked Crystal Skull just fine. I mean, what, God's wrath exploding from the Arc Of The Covenant in a life-sucking sandstorm was fine, aliens aren't?

Anyway. The difference between the Star Wars prequels and the new Indiana Jones probably was directing, but I still stand by my "Star Wars awful romance dialogue" comment.

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 7:23 AM

WEICHI

Cannot help but react to the idea that artists should move on and stop tinkering with their work with this snippet of dialog from one of my favorite films. Lets see if anyone recognizes the film. The female is speaking to the male about her late father...

M - What was he?
F - A Painter.
M - Ah. Was he a good one?
F - Well, I thought so. But people didn't understand him.
M - Yes, that's often the trouble.
F - He painted trees. At least it was one tree.
M - You mean he painted the same tree over and over again?
F - Yes. You see, he had a theory that if you should find one perfect thing, or place or person, you should stick to it. Do you think that's very silly?

In a word - YES!!!

See how I'm not hitting him, I think I've grown!

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 9:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I actually liked Crystal Skull just fine. I mean, what, God's wrath exploding from the Arc Of The Covenant in a life-sucking sandstorm was fine, aliens aren't?

My problems with that movie had zero to do with aliens, and everything to do with a terrible script.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 9:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ReaverInA1985Riviera:

I'm still pissed Spielberg replaced the guns with walkie-talkies in E.T., it took away alot of the feeling of peril when Eliot escapes on his bike.

---------------------------------------------

If it helps any, at an anniversary screening of Raiders last week, Spielberg said he regretted making that change, and would be putting out the unaltered version of ET on Blu Ray.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 10:45 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
I actually liked Crystal Skull just fine. I mean, what, God's wrath exploding from the Arc Of The Covenant in a life-sucking sandstorm was fine, aliens aren't?

My problems with that movie had zero to do with aliens, and everything to do with a terrible script.

There is a list of 50 things wrong with the Indy IV script: http://mysterymanonfilm.blogspot.com/2008/05/50-flaws-of-indy-iv.html

Sadly, there was a beautiful script that Lucas rejected because he wanted to cram into the movie Shia LaBeouf, Indy's worthless Mutt. http://mysterymanonfilm.blogspot.com/2008/06/50-strengths-of-darabonts
-draft.html

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 10:46 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

My problems with that movie had zero to do with aliens, and everything to do with a terrible script.

I like Crystal Skull for what it is, but I finally have to agree with you that the script was severely lacking.
It was 'The Closer.'

The laughing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 11:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by two:

Sadly, there was a beautiful script that Lucas rejected because he wanted to cram into the movie Shia LaBeouf, Indy's worthless Mutt. http://mysterymanonfilm.blogspot.com/2008/06/50-strengths-of-darabonts
-draft.html

Really, Darabont's draft was only slightly better than what they filmed, and still contains most of the bad stuff from Crystal Skull (including the notorious "Nuke the ridge" scene, and instead of silly CGI ants, it would have had a big silly CGI snake). It was really a wash, better in some areas, worse in others.

And get your facts straight - adding Shia was all Spielberg. He's made that clear himself several times. Not that he was the problem with the movie, either, but again - get the story right.

Here is a breakdown, from a screenwriter POV, on the problems with both scripts:

Crystal Skull:
http://scriptshadow.blogspot.com/2011/03/10-screenwriting-no-nos-you-c
an-learn.html

City of the Gods:
http://scriptshadow.blogspot.com/2011/03/indiana-jones-and-city-of-god
s-darabont.html

And for contrast - why Raiders rocks so hard:
http://scriptshadow.blogspot.com/2011/03/10-screenwriting-tips-you-can
-learn.html

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 3:22 PM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Really, Darabont's draft was only slightly better than what they filmed...

Best way to test the soundness of Lucas's judgment is to read what Lucas rejected: www.wikileaks.org/wiki/Purported_Indiana_Jones_4_original_screenplay_d
raft "You can't stop the signal."

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
And get your facts straight - adding Shia was all Spielberg.

Does Spielberg have a gentleman's wager with George Lucas that Shia LaBeouf can be made a movie star if you put him into enough movies?

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Tuesday, September 20, 2011 4:41 PM

Well, the first analysis linked is already way off. Hero characters are by nature supposed to be reactive. There's even a trope about it.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainsActHeroesReact

In Raiders, Indy was reactive, avoiding traps, and very nearly being left by his treacherous side kick.

Also, I had no problem following the plot in Crystal Skull, which is supposedly muddled. Honestly, I think the way it got from point A to point B was fine, consistent with other Indiana Jones movies, and I wasn't bothered by Harrison Ford being older, he's still good enough to carry it.

Whenever I talk to people, it always seems like the main objection was either the nuke the fridge sequence or the aliens. But there's actually a lot of fun action sequences in the middle.

If we want to talk about fourth films from a trilogy I think are bad, I more think of Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides and of course A Phantom Menace. Crystal Skull was still an entertaining movie, while I wasn't entertained by the other two examples.

And out of the Indiana Jones franchise, you want to complain about Crystal Skull when Temple of Doom exists? I dunno, I just think people are being too picky.

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 2:02 AM

Originally posted by Bytemite:

Quote:
I dunno, I just think people are being too picky.

I agree with you Byte. With this film [Crystal Skull] and most of what Lucas does.

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 4:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Really, Darabont's draft was only slightly better than what they filmed...
Best way to test the soundness of Lucas's judgment is to read what Lucas rejected: www.wikileaks.org/wiki/Purported_Indiana_Jones_4_original_screenplay_d
raft "You can't stop the signal."

Uh... I did.

Did you not read my post....?

Im comparing the filmed draft the the Darabont draft - the scripts under discussion. There were literally dozens of scripts written for Indy 4. But YOU were the one championing Darabont's.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 5:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Well, the first analysis linked is already way off. Hero characters are by nature supposed to be reactive. There's even a trope about it.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainsActHeroesReact

That might be a "TV trope" - but it is considered a big no-no in screenwriting. Technical similarities aside, they are two different mediums, with rather different rules.

Yes, Heroes react. But they can't JUST be reactive. They must take action themselves, or they are considered passive characters - which is supposed to be avoided in a lead character whenever possible.

And Indy was plenty active in his other films.

Quote:
In Raiders, Indy was reactive, avoiding traps, and very nearly being left by his treacherous side kick.

Oh, okay. You are looking at the word in far too simplistic of terms.

Yes, he reacts to things, of course. But the point is - he was in that cave of his own volition, going after something. He had a clearly defined goal - something he was after. The reactive actions stem from that.

When the Gov guys came looking for info on the Ark, Indy took it on himself to go after it. Then he reacted as things happened, but the action was still driven by his choices.

Compare this to his being captured, dumped from a trunk, then being led around for the first act (and really, the entire film). He had no goal, he was a tool of others who had a goal.

Did you even read the article, or just stop with the heading???

Quote:
Also, I had no problem following the plot in Crystal Skull, which is supposedly muddled. Honestly, I think the way it got from point A to point B was fine, consistent with other Indiana Jones movies,

Muddled doesn't just mean hard to follow. It relates to tone, pacing, and flow. I bet you've seen plenty of bad movies that still made sense, but could have told their stories better.

It also has to do with how the exposition is delivered - is it done as part of the set-up in the first act, like in Raiders? Or is it done as part of the action, like Temple of Doom or Last Crusade? Or is it done in a pace-stopping 10 minute scene of people talking in a tend - halfway through the movie - like Crystal Skull.

Just making sense is the easy part. That doesn't make it good.

Quote:

And out of the Indiana Jones franchise, you want to complain about Crystal Skull when Temple of Doom exists?

It has some goofy stuff in it as well, but structurally, it's a much better script.

Temple of Doom is the only Indy movie where Indy actually has a positive outcome on the story. In all three of the other films, if Indy had just gone home halfway through, the bad guys never would have found what they were looking for anyway, and everything would have been fine.

Quote:
I dunno, I just think people are being too picky.

I think people are too eager to praise a bad movie that tickles their nostalgia bone.

But it's all subjective.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 5:10 AM

Double.

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 7:36 AM

OPPYH

http://screenrant.com/indiana-jones-5-raiders-lost-ark-anniversary-rot
hc-131609/

Well, at least Harrison Ford is optimistic about playing Indy again.

Oh, and Spielberg offering Ford the part of Dr. Alan Grant in the original Jurassic Park...?...
Why Harrison, why didn't you do it? Talk about an amazing "what if" scenario.

----------------------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 8:14 AM

Ford has become known for turning down good roles over the last couple decades. Most notoriously bailing on Traffic (the role ended up going to Michael Douglass).

He also turned down George Clooney's Oscar-winning role in Syriana, Kevin Costner's in JFK, Liam Neeson's In Schindler's List, Val Kilmer's in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and Nick Nolte's in Cape Fear.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 9:16 AM

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
[Ford] also turned down George Clooney's Oscar-winning role in Syriana, Kevin Costner's in JFK, Liam Neeson's In Schindler's List, Val Kilmer's in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and Nick Nolte's in Cape Fear.

The verso is so: Neither of Ford's two most famous roles (Han Solo and Indiana Jones) were offered to him first. Tom Selleck was the first choice to play Indiana Jones and Christopher Walken was the first choice to play Han Solo. - www.imdb.com/name/nm0000148/bio

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 10:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
[Ford] also turned down George Clooney's Oscar-winning role in Syriana, Kevin Costner's in JFK, Liam Neeson's In Schindler's List, Val Kilmer's in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and Nick Nolte's in Cape Fear.
The verso is so: Neither of Ford's two most famous roles (Han Solo and Indiana Jones) were offered to him first. Tom Selleck was the first choice to play Indiana Jones and Christopher Walken was the first choice to play Han Solo. - www.imdb.com/name/nm0000148/bio

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

You're right, and a little wrong on those.

Walken did audition for Han, as did Kurt Russel, but neither was offered the role. Lucas cast by ensemble, not individually. And as he was having people come in, he used Ford as a stand-in when other actors couldn't be there (he was doing carpentry at the studio), so Ford read with more groups than anyone, and quickly became the favorite.

In the case of Indy, Spielberg wanted Ford from the beginning, but Lucas was resistant, having just done two movies with him. That's why Lucas pushed for Selleck.

Spielberg originally wanted Fo

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 10:31 AM

BLACKOUTNIGHTS

There's just so many unnecessary changes. I don't understand it.

When it happens, and I refuse to believe it won't, I hope he lets other people handle the film adaptation of Heir to the Empire.

That was the best thing to happen to the franchise since the 80s.

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 10:43 AM

Tvtropes ARE for screen writing.

It's generally not the hero who drives the plot, but the villain, and the hero tries to stop the villain. This is true in Indiana Jones as much as just about any other hero vs. villain set up you could think of. Which is why that was a tvtrope.

Quote:
Compare this to his being captured, dumped from a trunk, then being led around for the first act (and really, the entire film). He had no goal, he was a tool of others who had a goal.

Sorry, just don't see this as that much different from having to then having to recover the staff and staff head, then rescue Marion being captured, then escape from the snake pit, and then stop the Nazis from stealing the arc. Or much different from being played by a female Nazi double-agent spy for most of the movie.

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Did you even read the article, or just stop with the heading?

I read the section about heroes being the plot drivers and stopped because it's completely wrong.

Whoever wrote that article doesn't appear to have the slightest notion what they're talking about.

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Or is it done in a pace-stopping 10 minute scene of people talking in a tend - halfway through the movie - like Crystal Skull.

Maybe, but considering I don't even remember that part, because I was enjoying all the good action sequences around it, maybe it also wasn't that big of a deal-breaker.

Now you want a bad, boring exposition scene, go watch the Godzilla film with Matthew Broderick. This one I don't think really even compares.

Quote:
I think people are too eager to praise a bad movie that tickles their nostalgia bone.

Oh please, I took back the thing about "you don't like it because of the aliens," you can at least pay attention to what I've said in this thread to contradict that. Like about how I don't like the Star Wars Prequels.

Quote:
But it's all subjective.

Apparently so.

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 12:13 PM

Quote:
Sorry, just don't see this as that much different from having to then having to recover the staff and staff head, then rescue Marion being captured, then escape from the snake pit, and then stop the Nazis from stealing the arc. Or much different from being played by a female Nazi double-agent spy for most of the movie.

You've made that clear.

Quote:
Oh please, I took back the thing about "you don't like it because of the aliens," you can at least pay attention to what I've said in this thread to contradict that. Like about how I don't like the Star Wars Prequels.

Oh, it's okay for you to make a comment on those who don't like it - but out of line for me to do the same for those who do.

Gotcha.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 12:41 PM

No, I'm asking you to be consistent with what you've asked me to do, which was not to oversimplify or misinterpret your motivations. Fair is fair.

And don't turn this thread into a "Gotcha" thing, that's adding that same old element of "I'm right you're wrong" bit of nonsense into something which you just admitted was subjective.

I don't play that game.

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Tuesday, September 27, 2011 8:52 AM

JAMERON4EVA

Quote:
Originally posted by Bup:
The real problem is someone needs to smack George Lucas' hand and say, "No!" This was finished decades ago. Move on.
My mother calls it shooting the artist when the painting is finished so they will leave the thing alone.

What everyone ignores is, if you dont like it, you DON'T HAVE TO BUY IT! You have the older editions you can watch, keep the fucking VCR working, and pop in the original VHS. Keep the DVD's, it's just a movie. It isn't like he's using "Old Jedi mind-tricks" to get you too buy it, *sigh*

"Mom, he has her chip. He has her."
John Connor,"Born To Run", TSCC EP 2x22

"We mustn't over stimulate young minds. Das ist verboten!" - Rappy

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Tuesday, September 27, 2011 8:56 AM

Yeah, no kidding.

How DARE he release the movies in a new format, without bowing to the demands of the overly-vocal minority.

Meanwhile - they sold like hotcakes. Instantly becoming the highest selling catalog (ie: not new release) Blu Rays ever, despite costing close to $100. Because most people don't get as bent out of shape as internet fanbois.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, September 27, 2011 9:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
No, I'm asking you to be consistent with what you've asked me to do, which was not to oversimplify or misinterpret your motivations. Fair is fair.

And don't turn this thread into a "Gotcha" thing, that's adding that same old element of "I'm right you're wrong" bit of nonsense into something which you just admitted was subjective.

I don't play that game.

There's subjective, and subjective. Many people thing Firefly is crap. Many people think the Transformers movies are good.

Subjective opinions, yes. Neither one holds a modicum of credibility.... in my opinion.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, September 27, 2011 9:10 AM

Quote:
Many people think the Transformers movies are good.

...Heh.

I actually didn't go see them. I was never into Transformers as a kid. Doesn't appeal to me.

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Tuesday, September 27, 2011 9:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:
Many people think the Transformers movies are good.

...Heh.

I actually didn't go see them. I was never into Transformers as a kid. Doesn't appeal to me.

I saw the first, and disliked it overall, but cut it some slack for a few cool scenes.

The second one a friend talked me into seeing - and it was the worst 2 and a half hours I spent that summer.

I wised up and skipped the 3rd.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Tuesday, September 27, 2011 1:47 PM

Originally posted by Storymark:

Quote:
Crystal Skull: http://scriptshadow.blogspot.com/2011/03/10-screenwriting-no-nos-you-c
an-learn.html

Well some interesting points raised but trouble with articles such as these is that they're always after the fact. Faults are easy to point out in hindsight and the idea of turning creativity into a formula is counter intuitive to my mind.

Some of the points or 'No Nos' (horrible phrase) pointed out here are contradicted by a film such as Bladerunner. So the idea of having 'rules' to screenwriting is redundant. But I think the big mistake with an article such as this is that it negates to consider the era in which these films were made.

In the article this is said:
"NEVER MAKE THINGS CONVENIENT OR EASY FOR YOUR CHARACTERS
You remember the truck chase in Raiders? Remember how Indy had to use every ounce of strength, every punch, every kick, every last brain cell (cleverly sliding underneath the truck so as not to get smushed). He worked his tail off to get control of that truck. Here? Everything, from fights to escapes are just HANDED OUT to our heroes. That 15 minute long tent scene I mentioned above? How did they get away? Shia KNOCKS OVER A TABLE! Are you kidding me? When Indy is shot into the desert with the Russian after the warehouse scene, what happens when he comes to a stop? The Russian has fallen asleep! In the back of the truck arguing with Marion? Indy KICKS the guard in the ass when he’s not looking, resulting in him passing out! But the worst is when our characters accidentally fall into a river, get dumped down three successive waterfalls, and miraculously happen to end up RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE MYSTERIOUS CAVE THEY’VE BEEN LOOKING FOR! This is a huge reason why the Indy 4 experience feels so unsatisfying. Our characters don’t earn anything. They’re HANDED everything. So please, always make things difficult for you characters. And make sure they earn their way."

Well nothing seemed more convenient to me than Indy and Marion shutting their eyes when the wrath of God passes through the Nazi's at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark, yet that scene still works. So can it really be as simple as this article claims?

Of course not.

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Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:09 AM

A little further evidence for Georgie's case file.

LINK CONTAINS CLONE WARS CARTOON SPOILERS!!!!!
LINK CONTAINS CLONE WARS CARTOON SPOILERS!!!!!
LINK CONTAINS CLONE WARS CARTOON SPOILERS!!!!!
LINK CONTAINS CLONE WARS CARTOON SPOILERS!!!!!
LINK CONTAINS CLONE WARS CARTOON SPOILERS!!!!!
LINK CONTAINS CLONE WARS CARTOON SPOILERS!!!!!
LINK CONTAINS CLONE WARS CARTOON SPOILERS!!!!!
LINK CONTAINS CLONE WARS CARTOON SPOILERS!!!!!
LINK CONTAINS CLONE WARS CARTOON SPOILERS!!!!!
LINK CONTAINS CLONE WARS CARTOON SPOILERS!!!!!
http://tv.ign.com/articles/119/1199764p1.html

my comment about the link

Select to view spoiler:

Seriously? He was just chillin somewhere for like 10 years? *sigh*

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Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:16 AM

Yeah, Im sure they havn't thought of that.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, October 13, 2011 10:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Yeah, Im sure they havn't thought of that.

That sounds like sarcasm, but with Lucas it also sounds incredibly likely. Too difficult to parse.

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Thursday, October 13, 2011 11:38 AM

Aside from there being little to support that than fanboi hatred - Maybe you're not aware of this, but Lucas doesn't have a lot to do with the plotting or writing on the series. David Feloni runs the show.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, October 13, 2011 12:09 PM