"Roughnecks: Starship Trooper Chronicles" discussion by CapnRahn

OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

"Roughnecks: Starship Trooper Chronicles" discussion

POSTED BY: CAPNRAHN
UPDATED: Sunday, July 3, 2005 05:51
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Saturday, October 23, 2004 7:54 PM

OK, I have been watchign my DVDs of this great CGI "kids-show".

I taped every episode and was eagerly awaiting the DVDs. Until I found out they cut 5, perhaps as many as 15 whole 15 to 18 minutes episodes.

The 5 part "Ice-teroid Campaign" is missing entirely. It fell between the Tesca Namarosa and Klendathau Campaigns.

A few of the double long (10 episodes 'planned'} "Homefront Campaign" are missing as well as 5 'clip-shows' that were amazingly good, considerign they were thrown together as filler - because of production time shortfalls.

Gorram Sony Pictures only released 2/3rds of this better adaptation of Hienline's original.

Don't get me wrong, I DO love Verhoven's "Starship Troopers" - it should just be named something else, cause it IS a bastardization of the the original. But SO frelling entertaining!

Ahem - back to "Roughnecks..." - I truly loved the characters and armor that this series set up. It is still a far cry from Hineline, but it is truer by dint of the strength of the characters.

These CGI caracters were generated on a TV budget - quite a feat for the year 1999 and 2000.

But what made them memorable was the writing and the delevery of the excellent voice actors hired for this "kiddie show".

Your Opinions?

And if ya haven't seen 'em - you should! I may have to see if I can burn DVDs of the episodes Sony 'lost', I still have ALL of my SP copied epis!

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

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Sunday, October 24, 2004 5:10 AM

CYBERSNARK

I agree with you, I truly loved that show. Unfortunately, I had to watch it on Teletoon, which means that I haven't seen all the episodes, and what I saw was out of order.

Sounds like the DVD people took a page from Teletoon's policy-book.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Sunday, October 24, 2004 5:18 AM

EVILMIKE

I, too, was really excited that the series was going to be available on DVD and really horrified at how poorly the DVD release actually was.

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Sunday, October 24, 2004 6:04 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I like it too, but I guess I'll wait for the dvds until a definitive edition is released. I have most of the eps on tape, but I know I'm missing a few and some may be in the wrong order.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Monday, October 25, 2004 5:36 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
I like it too, but I guess I'll wait for the dvds until a definitive edition is released. I have most of the eps on tape, but I know I'm missing a few and some may be in the wrong order.

I agree w/ you ECG. I loved this CGI show when it was on the air. I did realize when watching it after awhile that the episodes were out of order, and there seemed to be some gaps in the story. I had read elsewhere that the DVDs did not include all the episodes, so I decided to hold off on picking them up.

I really liked this show. It was, IMO, much closer to the original book than the movie that was released. The armor was cool, and the weapons and ships seemed more in keeping w/ the original story. The characters seemed more believable and the stories better written than the film.

I am hoping that a complete DVD set will be released. If it ever is, I will most definitely buy it.

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Meet Up:
http://firefly.meetup.com/9/boards/

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Monday, October 25, 2004 5:49 AM

GHOULMAN

Just curious - did this show follow the brownshirt Nazi fascism present in the original Troopers movie?

What was the theme of the show?

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Monday, October 25, 2004 8:04 AM

CAPNRAHN

No, it doesn't follow the misguided Verhovhen vision of Heinline's story.

Mostly it is about the continuing 'Bug War'. It is more about real character growth than other kids shows see to be.

It 'acts' as if the movie hasen't happened.

Funny enough - there is no real political agenda that is obvious.

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

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Monday, October 25, 2004 9:13 AM

GHOULMAN

^^^ ? I haven't read any Heinlan but from what I'm told he often used Sci-Fi to portray a fascist society.

Taking out these elements seems a scary notion. Not to mention making it a childrens show. I haven't seen this but it reminds me of all the war movies Hollywoodland makes. At least Verhovhen knew the reality of propoganda and made Starship Troopers to reflect that.

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Monday, October 25, 2004 2:14 PM

PALADIN

I remember watching the show every morning before boarding the school bus. I also remember trying to make sense out of the episodes because they were not shown in order. (stupid Fox - it was on Fox for me)
All of that aside, I love that show. I had lost my tape with scant few episodes until about a year ago. Among those episodes was my favorite. I think it was part of the Tesca campaign. The Roughnecks were assigned a robot. At first he was cold and by the book, but as the ep. progressed he learned the teamwork and comaraderie that many *cough..Rico..cough* claimed 'it' could never have. In the end the 'bot (CHAS I think he was dubbed) sacrificed himself to save the Roughnecks.

------------
"If you take sexual advantage of her, you're going to burn in a very special level of Hell, a level they reserve for child molesters and people who talk at the theater." -Book

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Monday, October 25, 2004 3:20 PM

DANFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
^^^ ? I haven't read any Heinlan but from what I'm told he often used Sci-Fi to portray a fascist society.

Heinlein's work was all over the map. He wrote hippie counterculture stories (Stranger in a Strange Land), pro-militaristic stories (Starship Toopers), antiwar stories (Glory Road), conservative stories, liberal stories. He wrote stories tolerant of homosexuality. He wrote stories intolerant of homosexuality. Some of this, I suspect, was his talent for immersing himself in what he was creating and allowing it to take a life of its own.

His personal politics were mostly libertarian. His recurring themes were a strong antiauthoritarian streak and a bone crushing emphasis on personal liberty/responsibility... that is, the government should stay the heck out of your way (as long as you're not stepping on someone else's rights) and let you do your own thing. But if it goes bad, then its up to you to pay the bill when it comes due... suck it up and get it done.

Some of his stories did indeed contain settings with fascist governments. But I don't know I'd call it a recurring theme. He also had frontier settings. Alternative lifestyle settings (one in which an immortal character travels back many centuries in time to become his mother's lover). And countless other settings...

Like I said, he was all over the map. Some of his stories I loved. Some left me ice cold.

I've not seen the animated cartoon. The Starship Troopers movie bore only the slightest resemblance to the novel he wrote. I found the movie entertaining, but certainly not an introduction to Heinlein's work in any measurable degree.

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Monday, October 25, 2004 3:33 PM

DANFAN

A question came to me after that last post...

One of the strongest themes in the novel Starship Troopers was that the price of franchisement (in the society in his novel) was military service. That is, unless you were willing to put your life on the line for society, then you hadn't earned the right to decide that society's future.

No military service? Then no vote! No exceptions.

My recollection is that this theme earned just the barest mention in the first act of the movie.

Did that theme show up in any form in the animated series?

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Monday, October 25, 2004 4:12 PM

DBELL46

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
^^^ ? I haven't read any Heinlan but from what I'm told he often used Sci-Fi to portray a fascist society.

As a major fan of Heinlan in general and Starship
Troopers in particular, I feel I have to correct
some misconceptions you appear to have.

Heilein's basic political argument in the book went
like this :

1) In a society that votes, the vote is the greatest authority the individual can exert over
society.

2) In a just system there must be some natural
mechanism to bring authority into balance with
responsibility (authority with no responsibility
is despotism, while responsibility with no authority creates a scapegoat.)

So, what Heinlein proposed was that anyone wanting
to vote first demonstrate that they were willing
to place the welfare of the society above their
own personal interests, and the way they were to
do this was by volunteering for any public
service with special conditions. Any unpleasent
task with a predictable amount of personal,
physical risk involved would do. For example,
collecting and disposing of used syringes in a HIV
ward in a hospital or cleaning bedpans in an
infectous disease ward. Two years of this would
earn a person the right to vote.

The military was a special case requiring two years or one war whichever came LAST.

Heilein would be the first to admit he wrote a
war story because wars are inherently dramatic
and he was trying to sell the book. Its also ironic that he came close to being blacklisted for
this book even though he was a rabid anti-communist. (it was published in 1954 during
the McCarthey witch hunts}

Just as the colonial marines in Aliens were
scifi heliocopter assault troops from vietnam, his starship troopers were scifi paratroopers from the korean war with the "bugs" representing the
chinese (he has a comment about communism working
for the bugs because they're designed for it.)
If you read a lot of Heilein (and I have) you see
that politically he was a radical libertarian not
a fascist. Verhooven focused only on the military
aspects of the story because of his personal
background (occupied norway during WW2) whereas
heilein was a naval officer with a totally dfferent attitude and outlook towards war.

Sorry if I'm rambling, it was a late night followed by a long day. More often than not, I
find myself agreeing with you G'man, but you're
"dissing" one of the two books that got me thinking hard about politics and the
military when I was 15 or so. you should read it.

****************************************************
If history is remarkably clear on one point,
it's that people don't learn from history.
****************************************************

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 2:31 AM

DANFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by dbell46:
Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
^^^ ? I haven't read any Heinlan but from what I'm told he often used Sci-Fi to portray a fascist society.

...but you're
"dissing" one of the two books that got me thinking hard about politics and the
military when I was 15 or so.

Actually, I didn't think he was dissing the book or the man. He had just heard (from an unspecified source) that Heinlein "often" wrote about fascist societies. I believe (and apparently so do you) that GM's source was wrong. That said...

Writing about fascist societies isn't inherently wrong. Nor does it imply any approval of such societies by the writer. Approval/disapproval would be indicated by how the author dealt with those societies in his stories.

Anyways, not looking to start an argument. I just didn't get the "dissing" part.

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 2:41 AM

BARNEYT

Haven't read that much Heinlein so am definitely not going to get involved in that part of this thread!

But on the subject of the Roughneck Chronicles - it's a 'children's series' in the same way as the Justice League animated series is considered a 'children's series' - ie, not really! Or definitely for older children at the very least.

For everyone hoping for a definitive and full series on DVD, don't hold your breath - most of the Homeland series of stories were never made because the company ran out of money. It has been hoped that purchases of the DVDs would fund them finishing the story off, so there is still hope...

I'm pretty certain (without having the DVDs in front of me - I'm at work, they're at home) that everything that was shown on TV has now been released on DVD. Yeah, they were released in a funny order, but they should all now be available.

Don't know about content being cut though... will have to investigate when I get home...

---
"I think the right place to start is to say, fair is fair. This is who we are. These are our numbers." Mr Willis of Ohio - The West Wing

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 5:22 AM

GHOULMAN

Thanks for the info guys.

Seems Heinlan was all over the place and explored all sorts of sociological forms and stories. I enjoyed Starship Troopers but knew it was a subversive screed, on Paul Verhoevens' part I guess, to portray a fascist society battling an "evil" foe (they always are). ST followed the proto Nazi Youth plot rather closely. The elements of citizenship as privilage and nobility mixed with hero worship. Of course, these things always end with a noble death of a comrade while the heros go off into the sunset. The sunset of a "better, braver new world".

Paul Verhoeven understood this and it seems so did Heinlan. Just as Starship Troopers portrays a society where one must be a "citizen class" to enjoy basic rights, so did Nazi Germany.

Quote:
Originally posted by dbell46:
Sorry if I'm rambling, it was a late night followed by a long day. More often than not, I
find myself agreeing with you G'man, but you're
"dissing" one of the two books that got me thinking hard about politics and the
military when I was 15 or so. you should read it.

I didn't mean to imply Heinlan was an advocate of fascism. Paul Verhoevens' movie had been a sly portrayal of pretty people fighting a noble and heroic war (there's no such thing of course) in the tradition of completely unreal fantasy. Considering todays war movies, Starship Troopers at least winks it's eye to let you know that the society these pretty people are living in is, in fact, completely oppressive of human rights as we know them.

Sooo, it strikes me as scary that there is a CGI "childrens show" about war. Tell me, what genius though that was a moral thing to do?

That's great, and thanks for the indepth.

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 8:27 AM

CAPNRAHN

As moral as any show about conflict.

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 9:05 AM

DANFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by BarneyT:
But on the subject of the Roughneck Chronicles - it's a 'children's series' in the same way as the Justice League animated series is considered a 'children's series' - ie, not really! Or definitely for older children at the very least.

I loved the book. I enjoyed the movie (as a completely separate entity from the book that shared nothing more than the book's name and a couple of story elements). I've never seen an episode of the CGI series... I didn't even know it was on until it wasn't. The series interests me, but I know next to nothing about it.

Perhaps you're the guy who could answer the question I posed earlier... From 30,000 feet, what is the show's character? Are the story lines basically a shallow shoot 'em up? Is it visually competent? Are the characters cardboard or do they have some real (realistic) personality? Does it explore the effects of war on its characters emotionally or mentally? Does it address any social issues (e.g., the concept of social service as a pre-requisite for franchisement)?

I know some of that stuff is pretty deep water for an animated show to swim in. I don't need for it to hit all those topics. But I'd like to know what the show's flavor is to determine if I'd like to add one of the campaign boxed sets to my Christmas list as a sampler...

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Tuesday, October 26, 2004 11:23 AM

CAPNRAHN

It is deeper into character and character growth than the movie. It does have its "HooRah" shoot'em-ups, but the 'toon (actually closer to Anime) shows the results of reckless behavior.

We follow Rico's growth from a uncertain hot-dogger to the LT. of the Roughnecks.

They really dig into Dizzy's character and her underlying motovations.

Carmen is NOT with Rico and he moons at her from afar.

Carl is more of a lynchpin and very interesting to watch evolve.

Speakin' of 'evolving' - Heh, what they do to Zander...! Hee hee.

Shee-oot - One could say that ALL the voice talent really fleshes out their individual characters and the interpersonal relationships therein.

OK, I'll let sombody else jump in fer a bit!

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

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Wednesday, October 27, 2004 4:27 AM

CYBERSNARK

Quote:
Originally posted by CapnRahn:
We follow Rico's growth from a uncertain hot-dogger to the LT. of the Roughnecks.

They really dig into Dizzy's character and her underlying motovations.

Carmen is NOT with Rico and he moons at her from afar.

And the Dizzy/Rico/Carmen soap opera gerts more and more complicated.

I liked Higgins' growth from nervous reporter to one of the team, expecially his friendship with, uh, the alien guy whose name I can't remember 'cause it's been years.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Saturday, November 13, 2004 10:11 PM

NICKFRANCK

Hey, you guys, I never thought there are so many people talk about this movie, and I love this show too. However, I really wanna talk about the original works--the science fiction 'Starship troopers', and the great author of this novel whose personal Illustratration is right in the following website address: http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~main/heinlein.html#Starship

By the way, I'm from the capital of China, yeah, right far away from you guys, I got a big question that where could I get this novel on line or anywhere, is there anyone could help me?
thanx!

My soul always gets far away from earth to another galaxy in my dream.

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Sunday, November 14, 2004 8:36 AM

CAPNRAHN

NICKFRANCK: Have you tried looking for a digital copy on Amazon.com or Mobipocket.com? Try there!

By the by: Sony just released a new Roughnecks DVD - "Trackers" - the link episode between the Klendathu and Homefront campaigns. It was left out of the orginal DVDs for some unknown reason.

It also has the 4 'clip-shows' - Pluto and Beyond, The Propaganda Machine, Marooned and The Courtmartial of Lt. Razak.

Now all they have to do is produce the "Ice-teroid Campaign" and finish off the last half of the Homefront Campaign.

"Homefront" was supposed to be 10 full episodes, instead od the 5 epis per each of the previous campaigns. Foundation and their support companies actually produced 3 of the final 5 episodes - they just never were aired.

Anybody have any further news?

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

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Sunday, November 14, 2004 4:36 PM

NICKFRANCK

Thanks, the buddy upstairs.
Of cuz I wanna get them via internet but I don't know how to pay for them, maybe it is necessary for me to open a account on WWW.
Remember? I'm from Orient. :P

My soul always gets far away from earth to another galaxy in my dream.

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Sunday, November 14, 2004 10:51 PM

RUBBEREAGLE

Quote:
Originally posted by CapnRahn:
Anybody have any further news?

Actually, the Zephyr campaign (Ice-Asteroid) was released over a year ago on DVD... Even here in Europe (though for some reason not in the UK)

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Monday, November 22, 2004 9:12 AM

MACINTOSHMAN2

Hey!
i have to tell ya... they are ALL now available....even the CLIP SHOW... yeah they never will COMPLETE the series cause' some of the stories never got beyond the written stage... but all episodes produced are available ( I have them all !! ) there are now available a total of 7 DVD's ( yes seven ) and they are in the correct order if you have all the episodes... there are episode guides available... i can tell you where if you need...

macintoshman2

macintosh man2

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Monday, November 22, 2004 9:15 AM

MACINTOSHMAN2

Quote:
Originally posted by CapnRahn:
NICKFRANCK: Have you tried looking for a digital copy on Amazon.com or Mobipocket.com? Try there!

By the by: Sony just released a new Roughnecks DVD - "Trackers" - the link episode between the Klendathu and Homefront campaigns. It was left out of the orginal DVDs for some unknown reason.

It also has the 4 'clip-shows' - Pluto and Beyond, The Propaganda Machine, Marooned and The Courtmartial of Lt. Razak.

Now all they have to do is produce the "Ice-teroid Campaign" and finish off the last half of the Homefront Campaign.

THIS IS AVAILABLE!!!! (macintoshman2)

"Homefront" was supposed to be 10 full episodes, instead od the 5 epis per each of the previous campaigns. Foundation and their support companies actually produced 3 of the final 5 episodes - they just never were aired.

Anybody have any further news?

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

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Monday, November 22, 2004 10:28 AM

CAPNRAHN

Thanks for the info on the Zephyr campaign. It hadn't shown up on the shelves here in Indiana that I could find.

I suppose I sould search more often at Amazon!

"Remember, there is only ONE absolute - There ARE NO absolutes!!!"

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Monday, November 22, 2004 10:58 AM

RUBBEREAGLE

Quote:
Originally posted by macintoshman2:

Hey!
i have to tell ya... they are ALL now available....even the CLIP SHOW... yeah they never will COMPLETE the series cause' some of the stories never got beyond the written stage... but all episodes produced are available ( I have them all !! ) there are now available a total of 7 DVD's ( yes seven ) and they are in the correct order if you have all the episodes... there are episode guides available... i can tell you where if you need...

macintoshman2

macintosh man2

Actually, for ALL Episodes the voice tracks were recorded, storyboards, and 2d designs were done.
It's all been said in the audio-commentaries...

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Monday, November 22, 2004 1:51 PM

DROCCULARI

Quote:
Originally posted by RubberEagle:
Actually, for ALL Episodes the voice tracks were recorded, storyboards, and 2d designs were done.
It's all been said in the audio-commentaries...

I thought the audio-commentaries were especially good. Organized and moderated by the producer Audu Paden, most of the DVDs have two full commentary tracts; one with a more artistic focus including writers, directors, voice actors, voice directors, etc, and the other more technically focused (though really, no less artistic) with 3D animators, animation directors, programers, etc.

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Sunday, July 3, 2005 5:51 AM

CYBERSNARK

I'm reviving this ancient thread on account of this:

http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=4212

(There's also an interview with Greg Weisman, the writer/story editor. Greg was also the creator of Gargoyles, for those who care.)

Apparently this'll be the definitive release we've been hoping for, though the reviewer seems unimpressed by the lack of extras, and downright mistaken about the CGI (name one TV show that's done it better).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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