REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Tragic coincidence?

POSTED BY: CANTTAKESKY
UPDATED: Thursday, February 24, 2011 23:34
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VIEWED: 2524
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Sunday, February 20, 2011 1:44 PM

CANTTAKESKY



I read these types of stories a lot. I know everyone says it is just a coincidence. And certainly, that MAY be true. But after the 100th time you've seen this story, it does make you wonder if there isn't some safety issue we are overlooking.

http://www.naturematters.info/

Quote:


This is my journey….

I can’t say I believed in vaccination. I knew nothing about it, but had it done anyway. It’s what you do, right? You do what doctors and baby health clinics tell you and what your parents and the media advise you to do. Well I did it, without so much as a question or thought into it. Within moments of my son receiving his immunisations he was screaming. This continued for most of the day and when he wasn’t screaming he was crying. This was unusual as he was a very happy, placid baby, who was already rolling over at 8 weeks and gooing and gahing at the first sight of his mother. The doctor told me his reactions were ’normal’ and he’d be OK in a couple of days.

After the first day he had almost recovered with only some irritability and restlessness noticeable. As the weeks passed he continued to reach milestones and all appeared Ok.

At 4 months of age I dutifully took him for his next round of vaccinations. This time he screamed louder and I could not console him at all. I would breastfeed him, only to have him projectile vomit it back up and still the screaming continued. He had never before vomited at all, ever. After he had vomited 2 feeds I called the doctor and told her what was happening and she said to stop breastfeeding and give him juice only. He kept some of it down but still vomited often.

The next day I called the doctor and told her I think the vaccines have done this and she told me ’ no, it’s just a coincidence’ but to bring him back in, which I did. She referred me to a specialist. While waiting for the specialist appointment in a few days, my baby boy started doing strange things. He started arching his back and crying out in pain. He was as stiff as a board. His eyes would roll into the back of his head. He didn’t have a temperature. He had also started shuddering but he wasn’t cold. (I later learnt from the doctor these were convulsions and seizures). The vomiting continued and I was convinced to give up breastfeeding by the clinic sister. He vomited up the formula also. I was getting very scared.

We went to the specialist appointment and he took some blood for tests and then we had to wait. His symptoms continued and after several days word came from the specialist that the tests showed he was allergic to wheat. I stopped giving him the cereal I had started him on weeks before, but none of the symptoms went away. (when I thought about it later, it was actually rice cereal anyway)

I decided to move to a large city to get more help. Once I saw a doctor there he was immediately admitted to hospital for a battery of test – many of which were conducted under anaesthetic, which of course required my signature to say I have been notified that my baby could die while under. I had not been advised of this, but I signed it not knowing all the medical jargon as I needed to get my baby well again and trusted they knew what they were doing.

By this time my dear little son had lost a lot of weight and nothing I was doing (under advice from doctors and baby health clinics) was working.

After months of tests in the hospital (he stayed there) we were summoned in to an office to be told that they ’didn’t know why my baby was deteriorating, but they estimate he will pass away within a couple of months’.

Soon after I took my baby home to die.

.snip.






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Sunday, February 20, 2011 6:18 PM

ALLIETHORN7


So... What is her point? That evil vaccines killed her son? It's a horrible thing and all, but anyone who seriously pays lip service to the anti-vaccine "movement" might as well smash someones head in with a rock, for all the good it does. We've eradicated deadly diseases, ones that took the lives of millions of people, with tyese self-same vaccines. The fact remains: Babies die. It's sad, and we don't like it, bu its true. We discover new diseases so that we may better guard against them later on. Her sons death is a tragedy, yes, but unrelated to vaccines. Even if it wasn't, the good they dp outweighs the death of a single child.

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Sunday, February 20, 2011 7:24 PM

DMAANLILEILTT


Agreed. All you're doing is playing the odds and hoping you're in the majority.

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

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Sunday, February 20, 2011 7:32 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Alliethorn7:
the good they dp outweighs the death of a single child.


Fuck you.

Say that when it's YOUR kid, or your niece, as it were, and by a vaccine that not only probably doesn't even do what it was advertised, that the manufacturer KNEW was dangerous if not deadly, and tried to bribe TX Governor Perry to make legally mandatory... all to make a buck, and with people like you cheering it right on in their ignorance.

You're all so quick to write someone elses children off as collateral damage, okay, fine - pick one of yours, and kill them out of hand, then, and ONLY THEN, will I find your argument acceptable.

And for the record I am not anti-vaccine per se, so much as I believe we really, REALLY need to improve on the safety and effectiveness of the damn things - something which in recent years has come back to bite us hard, and with deadly consquences, from vaccine caused polio outbreaks, to Baxter shipping live virus mixed with vaccine shipments either by intention or by an almost unthinkable, impossible, breach of BSL-3 procedures, to the Gardasil fiasco, SV-40 contamination, and so forth and so on, so don't for a moment think you're dealing with some easily-dismissed kook - I DO my homework, have you ?

No, you'd rather go on faith, the same way people took Gardasil on faith, and wound up DEAD, and one of them was MY people...

And you being okay with that, frankly, makes me wanna puke.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Sunday, February 20, 2011 8:22 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!





" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, February 21, 2011 9:07 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Another example of Darwin's Curse on stoopid sheeple.

I bet she thinks Arabs did 9/11, Lee Oswald shot JFK, the 16th Amendment was ratified, the Federal Reserve Bank is the federal govt, Buzzed Aldrin walked on the moon, and Operation Northwoods was by the Sierra Club.

Penn & Teller are obviously paid for their govt propaganda, perhaps laundered through their Mafiya employers in Sin City. PT also claims 9/11 was perped by Arabs in a cave, and Buzzed Aldrin walked on the "moon".

Contrary to PT's BS, Amish have found the cure for autism, and Amish who have autism are adopted and vaccinated from Commie China:
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/olmsted.html

Purified water and flushing toilets prevent disease, not cow puss "technology" from 3,000 years ago.

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Monday, February 21, 2011 3:29 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I do agree that we need to continue improving vaccinations, making sure they are as safe as possible. I've heard enough anicdotal stories to wonder if sometimes, occasionally, vaccines can potentially cause problems. But the good they do shouldn't be ignored and I still think its important to vaccinate, but as I said research needs to continue and improvements need to be made. Frem I'm sorry that some of yours have had trouble with vaccinations.

But the good they've done is undeniable and I think they are important, ultimately it is the parent's choice, but I think encouraging vaccinations is good, but of course it should come along with further research and improvement in the vaccines we give. I've never had any trouble with any of mine fortunately.

PN, I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying exactly, I understand that you are a conspiracy theorist, you certainly have the right to be, but I didn't quite understand the rest of it.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, February 21, 2011 4:47 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Alliethorn7:
Even if it wasn't, the good they dp outweighs the death of a single child.

Lemme pose a hypothetical question about how the "good" outweighs the death of a single child.

Suppose there are 10 children whose lives could be saved if they had organ transplants. Would you kidnap and kill a healthy child to harvest those organs to save the lives of 10?

If not, why not? What's the difference?




-------
Hell, the only reason the Government hates crime at all is that it despises competition. - Frem

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Tuesday, February 22, 2011 4:40 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Frem,

US Supreme Court just handed down a decision to "preempt all vaccine design defect lawsuits" in the country.

In other words, if the vaccine turns out to not be as safe as it could have been, or should have been, and it kills or injures your kid, tough.

http://www.coalitionforvaccinesafety.org/press.htm

http://adventuresinautism.blogspot.com/

-------
Hell, the only reason the Government hates crime at all is that it despises competition. - Frem

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Wednesday, February 23, 2011 3:52 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
In other words, if the vaccine turns out to not be as safe as it could have been, or should have been, and it kills or injures your kid, tough.


I can't believe you are all taking this so seriously...the story is made up...a lie.

And what does the story say: 'Took kid to get shots, kid sick.'

I got sick the other day...flu-like symptoms mere hours after ordering Netflix for the PS3. Netflix causes the flu.

When I was a kid a broke my wrist (by falling down a hill) shortly after getting a shot. Shots cause broken wrists.

My dog threw up this morning after we woke up and went outside. Dog pee causes dogs to throw up.

So to sum up, fake story and false conclusion, easy to fool most of you cause your already mostly on board the 'evil govt-corporation vaccines and jet contrails are killing us all' train.

I note for the record that my mother died of cancer during a snowstorm...snow must cause cancer.

H

"Hero. I have come to respect you." "I am forced to agree with Hero here."- Chrisisall, 2009.
"I would rather not ignore your contributions." Niki2, 2010.

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Wednesday, February 23, 2011 5:34 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by piratenews:
Another example of Darwin's Curse on stoopid sheeple.

I bet she thinks Arabs did 9/11, Lee Oswald shot JFK, the 16th Amendment was ratified, the Federal Reserve Bank is the federal govt, Buzzed Aldrin walked on the moon, and Operation Northwoods was by the Sierra Club.



They did, he did, it was, no, not really, he did, umm..no.

Quote:


Penn & Teller are obviously paid for their govt propaganda, perhaps laundered through their Mafiya employers in Sin City. PT also claims 9/11 was perped by Arabs in a cave, and Buzzed Aldrin walked on the "moon".



Unlikely, and it was , he did.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, February 23, 2011 5:42 AM

BYTEMITE


Slight correction: the kid died of medical complications from getting sick.

The vaccine may or may not have caused the sickness, but the time of onset of symptoms is curious. Complications from the vaccine (which does not imply the vaccine itself was unsafe for most people, but rather there was an individual reaction to the vaccine here) is not an unreasonable conclusion.

There's a few ways that could work, the kid might have had an undetected auto-immune disorder that caused his system to overreact to the presence of the vaccine, the kid might have already had the infection he was being vaccinated against (which causes the same reaction as previously mentioned), or he was allergic to one of the adjuvants they put into the vaccine, which then eventually resulted in anaphylactic or septic shock when it was administered intravenously.

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Wednesday, February 23, 2011 5:52 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
So to sum up, fake story and false conclusion, ....

Story's not fake. Whether the conclusion is fallacious is a legitimate debate.

Took doctor-prescribed meds. Symptoms disappeared. Meds must cause symptom disappearance.

My grandpa went to the hospital. He got better. Hospital cured him.

Vaccines were administered. Disease rates went down. Vaccines prevented disease.

Concluding causation because of a temporal association with a certain outcome is not always warranted.


-------
"It is not my thorns that defend me. It is my perfume," says the rose. -- Paul Claudel

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Wednesday, February 23, 2011 7:19 AM

HARDWARE


Vaccines are supposed to make MOST people resistant or immune to a disease, not all. It is a shotgun approach, but since not all people react exactly the same to a vaccine, not a guarantee.

1% of kids getting sick and expiring from a vaccine, you bet we'd better take a closer look at the vaccine. Less than 1%? Sorry, the good outweighs the bad.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

...and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

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Wednesday, February 23, 2011 7:36 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Exactly, Byte - what rooks me is how even when that *IS* the most obvious diagnosis most doctors ignore it in much the same fashion we train ourselves not to see homeless people.

Or worse, how a pre-loaded conclusion can bias effects of "knowledge" - how much you wanna bet those responsible for asbestos and the SV40 contamination laughed up their sleeve when *ALL* lung cancer cases were (by the decree of C Everett Koop) tossed at the feet of Big Tobacco, allowing the former two to all but completely dodge any responsibility ?

We really NEED to look at this without the hide-bound science-as-religion aspect, cause SCIENCE MARCHES ON.
Just because granddaddy and daddy did it that way doesn't mean it's the ONLY way, and rather than wearing down the immune system by provoking it, why not BOOST it - goddamn we can make immunosuppressants, surely we can go in the other direction with it, ya think ?

At the very goddamn least they could spread the damn things out instead of crushing a developing immune system under a tremendous barrage of contaminants before it even gets fully developed, I mean that's common sense - but that's the thing with most of todays docs and scientists, even some of the mad ones, what I call genius idiocy.

How that works ?

A scientist one day decides to take up a hobby to entertain himself, and buys a kit called teach a flea to jump! - which he manages to do in short order, but being a scientist and inclined to meddle, he then decides to experiment a little, so he removes the fleas back two legs.
The flea, of course, doesn't jump quite as high now, so in continuation of the experiment, he removes the front two legs, and of course, the flea only barely hops.
As final confirmation of his hypothesis, he removes the middle two legs, and of course the flea no longer jumps...

So he publishes a paper stating that fleas have ears in their legs, since as the legs are removed they become progressively deaf.

THAT, is genius idiocy, and those responsible for the screwed up state of immunization today have a seriously bad case of it - to discard for personal, political, or financial reasons, scientific evidence, to deliberately close off avenues of research to protect themselves from knowledge they WISH did not have evidentiary support, that ain't science.
In fact, I consider it a crime AGAINST science.

Hell, that's most of the reason I despised C Everett Koop, other than, yanno, the fact that he was clinically insane while in office.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, February 23, 2011 7:42 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Hardware:
Less than 1%? Sorry, the good outweighs the bad.

That is ok with me. As long as we get to choose whether we want to take the chance that we might be in that 1%, and if indeed it is only 1% and not higher.


-------
"It is not my thorns that defend me. It is my perfume," says the rose. -- Paul Claudel

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Wednesday, February 23, 2011 8:40 AM

QUESTIONABLEQUESTIONALITY


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:

Originally posted by Hardware:
Less than 1%? Sorry, the good outweighs the bad.

That is ok with me. As long as we get to choose whether we want to take the chance that we might be in that 1%, and if indeed it is only 1% and not higher.


-------
"It is not my thorns that defend me. It is my perfume," says the rose. -- Paul Claudel




I'm with CTS on this. I'll choose thank you. Do whatever you want, just don't tell me what to do for me and my family.

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Wednesday, February 23, 2011 3:58 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht


I like Byte's approach, looking at variables. I agree that usually the good outweighs the bad on vaccines, but more research can be positive, we certainly want to minimize risk and increase safety of kids, both against all the diseases we vaccinate for and for any risks that may or may not relate to that vaccination process.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Thursday, February 24, 2011 3:04 PM

CANTTAKESKY


My concern now is the near complete legal immunity of vaccine manufacturers/administrators and the lack of legal recourse for vaccine injured kids.

Sotomayor wrote this brilliant dissent:
Quote:

"Vaccine manufacturers have long been subject to a legal duty, rooted in basic principles of products liability law, to improve the design of their vaccines in light of advances in science and technology. Until today, that duty was enforceable through a traditional state-law tort action for defective design. In holding that section 22(b)(1) of the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 (Vaccine Act or Act), 42 U.S.C. section 300aa-22(b)(1), preempts all design defect claims for injuries stemming from vaccines covered under the Act, the Court imposes its own bare policy preference over the considered judgment of Congress. In doing so, the Court excises 13 words from the statutory text, misconstrues the Act's legislative history, and disturbs the careful balance Congress struck between compensating vaccine-injured children and stabilizing the childhood vaccine market. Its decision leaves a regulatory vacum in which no one ensures that vaccine manufacturers adequately take account of scientific and technological advancements when designing or distributing their products. Because nothing in the text, structure, or legislative history of the Vaccine Act remotely suggests that Congress intended such a result, (bold is mine) I dissent."




-------
"It is not my thorns that defend me. It is my perfume," says the rose. -- Paul Claudel

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Thursday, February 24, 2011 11:24 PM

DREAMTROVE


ATM I think it would be prudent to look into alternate treatments for childhood diseases, enumerate them, and then try to approach it from that angle, or wangle as the iPad says, whatever a wangle is.

Statistically, I think vaccines kill more than they save, globally, but locally to Australia, probably save more thwn they kill. Still, hero has a point. I'm skeptical of Ms. Messenger if no one has a credible source. I've seen these sorts of things before, and parents on missions tend to get on major news outlets somewhere because they cause a lot of trouble.

SV40 is a serious issue. And the industry needs to evolve. Also, the main disasters have come from a senseless centralized distribution system, or sometimes an intentionally ill intentioned one.

You could take specific examples like measles, worldwide childhood deaths from measles among the unvaccinated are still in the millionsl thats worth considering. Equally worth considering is how many people will be killed through eugenics or incompetence by any central planning committee.

It would be nice if some country would cut this loose and let parents have direct access to male their own decisions, etc. And if the science and safety could be improved. Frankly, i would have trouble trusting doctors with my kids.

Lots of practices bother me (okay. Yes, they probably bother Mel too) such as the use of monkey blood, which seems to continue *wafter* or even *after* the most infamous stories have been more or less confirmed, another one is this use of "multiple-vaccines" this cannot have any conceivable advantage other than saving money. Attacking the immune system with three diseases at once is asking for failure.

Even if its not malicious malpractice, you still have to be skeptical of a society that has openly stated that it wants you not to have kids and has used vaccination as an agent of biowarfare in Africa and Russia.

I'm not anti, but I'm becoming skeptical

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Thursday, February 24, 2011 11:34 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I'm not anti, but I'm becoming skeptical

I'm not anti either.

I just want:

1. Choice
2. A mechanism by which consumers can influence Big Pharma on which vaccines are made and HOW they are made.

Right now, consumers have absolutely no voice and no representation on these products they are mandated to inject into their children's bloodstreams. That is not acceptable.


-------
"It is not my thorns that defend me. It is my perfume," says the rose. -- Paul Claudel

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