OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

FINALLY!!!!!!!! Soon, Revan shall rise again.

POSTED BY: JAMERON4EVA
UPDATED: Friday, April 29, 2011 00:22
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Tuesday, April 26, 2011 7:14 AM

JAMERON4EVA


http://www.starwars.com/vault/books/revan/index.html

"Mom, he has her chip. He has her."
John Connor,"Born To Run", TSCC EP 2x22

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Tuesday, April 26, 2011 7:21 AM

CYBERSNARK


I'm a bit torn; on one hand, I'm losing interest in the TotJ era because of Jedi-burnout, OTOH, I did love Karpyshyn's Darth Bane trilogy. . .

(Though I couldn't help but visualize Bane being played by Vin Diesel --huge, bald, predatory, a Voice that can haunt nightmares. . .)

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, April 26, 2011 10:40 AM

BYTEMITE


Darth Revan is a very interesting character and story, but I was disappointed they chose to make him canonically a man in the spin-off comics. I thought the storyline for the female version was much more interesting in the original games.

Still, book. That one may be worth picking up. The stuff in the very early Galactic Republic time frame opens up some interesting Force philosophies that aren't just good and evil, and also allows non-powers to compete on a level with Jedi.

I haven't been much interested in the New Republic time frame for a while, and been even less interested in the movie interim timeframe.

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Tuesday, April 26, 2011 5:22 PM

JAMERON4EVA


Yeah, i know the new republic era is getting kinda burned ou a little bit. But remember, it's the GA now, under Daala's helm, and were seeing the return of true Sith, like in the games, and the Old Republic time, and i mean OLD old republic, like the Mandalorian wars era old. Which would be a prefect tie in to anything added to that era, which Drew and them are slowly fleshing out.

But on a personal level, i think it's great that Drew is getting to a character and story that really put him on the map.

What i do hate about the whole latest two series of books, is the Mara was killed, not only killed, but by Karen Travis, and NOT her creator, Timothy Zhan, whom IS the benchmark for Star Wars books.

"Mom, he has her chip. He has her."
John Connor,"Born To Run", TSCC EP 2x22

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Wednesday, April 27, 2011 4:38 AM

GWEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
(Though I couldn't help but visualize Bane being played by Vin Diesel --huge, bald, predatory, a Voice that can haunt nightmares. . .)



Funny. I also pictured Vin Diesel for Bane. And for Zannah, Alexa Davalos (from the second Riddick movie).

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Wednesday, April 27, 2011 4:43 AM

GWEK


Quote:

Originally posted by jameron4eva:
Yeah, i know the new republic era is getting kinda burned ou a little bit. But remember, it's the GA now, under Daala's helm, and were seeing the return of true Sith, like in the games, and the Old Republic time, and i mean OLD old republic, like the Mandalorian wars era old. Which would be a prefect tie in to anything added to that era, which Drew and them are slowly fleshing out.

But on a personal level, i think it's great that Drew is getting to a character and story that really put him on the map.

What i do hate about the whole latest two series of books, is the Mara was killed, not only killed, but by Karen Travis, and NOT her creator, Timothy Zhan, whom IS the benchmark for Star Wars books.

"Mom, he has her chip. He has her."
John Connor,"Born To Run", TSCC EP 2x22



I think the biggest problem with the most recent mega-series (Legacy of the Force and Fate of the Jedi) is that, on the whole, they're pretty bad, and pretty badly written.

They're telling 2-3 book stories but spreading them out over 9 books and while it makes for more sales, it also makes for weak, diluted stories.

In fairness, though, I think a lot of the adult books (especially featuring Luke, Han, and Leia) have always been of questionable quality. The young adult novels and comics definitely capture the "feel" of the Star Wars universe better, and I think the Prequel-era (and other era) books are generally better than the Original Trilogy (and after) books because the OT is SO tied up in those three characters. Although the Prequel Trilogy is not as beloved as movies, it presented a more interesting "world" in which to tell additional stories, I think.

I didn't mind Mara dying, but don't get me started on Traviss...



www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Wednesday, April 27, 2011 5:23 AM

BYTEMITE


Man, even the other authors don't seem to like Karen Traviss. I almost feel sorry for her, except she set the low bar for collaboration on a series where "writing what I'm interested in and not paying attention to what the other authors were doing" was the high bar. They turned it into a tug-of-war.

And then a character gets killed out of spite, or some part of the universe gets wrecked when one of the authors gets frustrated by it.

Plus she has some ODD ideas about the Mandalorians. I mean, okay, I get that she wants to set up something as a much needed competent Badass Normal (tvtrope) counterpoint to Force-Users. Stories upon stories about canon sue Jedi really do get boring.

But I don't think it quite works out to make a super-military culture this needed counterpoint. While it's true that because it's a culture, anyone could join it, it's still in some ways as inaccessible as being born with the Force would be. If a reader is fantasizing about finally being able to take some of the goody-two-shows overpowered stuffing out of a Jedi, the fact is that it's unlikely anyone having a normal upbringing (like the reader) could join that culture and really be effective in it. So the problem is it's hard to relate to either Jedi or Mandalorians.

And if you make the Mandalorians not war, glory, or honor obsessed, then you take away whatever it was that was supposed to give them an advantage over Jedi. It just doesn't work.

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Wednesday, April 27, 2011 6:08 AM

CYBERSNARK


I actually really like Traviss' take on the Mando'a, but then I've always been a "third faction" kinda guy (hell, Omega and Delta Squads were basically the Clone Wars version of Rogue Squadron [or Page's Commandos, but nobody remembers them]). And honestly, the Old Republic Jedi were self-obsessed douchebags --I think both Jedi and Mando'a could've learned a great deal from each other, if they'd only been able to get past their mutual bigotry.

I'm also pretty sure big events like LotF are heavily planned out by LucasBooks; Mara was going to die regardless of who's turn it was to write that particular book.

Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
And if you make the Mandalorians not war, glory, or honor obsessed, then you take away whatever it was that was supposed to give them an advantage over Jedi.



What gives Mando an advantage over Jedi is their willingness to Get The Job Done regardless of how dirty their hands need to get. It's not about glory or honour, and most of them would probably be perfectly happy as civillians. Mando are survivors; they fight because people keep paying them to fight.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, April 27, 2011 7:13 AM

BYTEMITE


Eh, I don't know Traviss well enough to hate her. I don't mean to come on strong, I'm just saying what I've heard speculated, that there was some author tension.

The problem with Mandalorians is their depiction is all over the place. In the Mandalorian wars that the KOTOR games skirt around, the Mandalorians are these badass mofos who live for battle and finding worthy opponents. This is the one I'm most familiar with, and I thought it came from Jango Fett and his clones in the movie. But now I hear in the Clone War cartoons that the Mandalorians have become pacifists (what?), and want to join the Republic (what?) and that it's really only a fraction of them that wants to return to the old military glory, which presumably Jango is part of. The EU needs to make up it's mind.

I'd like to see a fourth faction, of also not entirely evil people, but who also have different ways that can counter the Jedi. Something an average person could become part of if they wanted. Maybe through technology that's been kept hidden or secret in case it needed to be used to dampen Force abilities and temporarily bring Force-Users down to normal.

I recall hearing that some Sith appear to attack the Galactic Empire 100 years later, it'd be interesting if they were a non-evil take on the philosophy. Then you could have Jedi versus Sith vs Mandalorians vs Empire.

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Wednesday, April 27, 2011 11:26 PM

JAMERON4EVA


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Eh, I don't know Traviss well enough to hate her. I don't mean to come on strong, I'm just saying what I've heard speculated, that there was some author tension.

The problem with Mandalorians is their depiction is all over the place. In the Mandalorian wars that the KOTOR games skirt around, the Mandalorians are these badass mofos who live for battle and finding worthy opponents. This is the one I'm most familiar with, and I thought it came from Jango Fett and his clones in the movie. But now I hear in the Clone War cartoons that the Mandalorians have become pacifists (what?), and want to join the Republic (what?) and that it's really only a fraction of them that wants to return to the old military glory, which presumably Jango is part of. The EU needs to make up it's mind.

I'd like to see a fourth faction, of also not entirely evil people, but who also have different ways that can counter the Jedi. Something an average person could become part of if they wanted. Maybe through technology that's been kept hidden or secret in case it needed to be used to dampen Force abilities and temporarily bring Force-Users down to normal.

I recall hearing that some Sith appear to attack the Galactic Empire 100 years later, it'd be interesting if they were a non-evil take on the philosophy. Then you could have Jedi versus Sith vs Mandalorians vs Empire.




Yeah, that would seem cool, but again it all boils down to Lucas arts. And the infighting, *eyeroll* If theres nothing more disrespectful, and a slap in the face, it's what Karen did. Even GEORGE said that Mara is Timothy's character. And to be frank, if it weren't for Zhan, Mara, and the Thrawn triology, almost all the subsequent books written, no matter time frame, for Star Wars wouldn't BE written. So in a way, Karen has turned her back on the guy that kept SW books going, and her to get a job as a SW writer. And Lucas needs to get in volved, but he's got bigger things, what with the 3D re-releases of the movies, the blue ray's, and "something big" in the works, he's got his hands full. The up though is this, Star Wars cannon, is stuff accepted by GEORGE LUCAS ONLY, so say if Timothy wrote a story on same basic "cannon" path, but kept Mara alive, and say Lucas accepts it, Karen's work would be nul-invoid. THAT'S how powerful Lucas is. And to all the "hobbits" and stuff out there, the Lord of The Rings ppl, ur guy, will NEVER have that much power. Screw the acad awards since most that shit is now, umm, BULL SHIT, remember, who makes all the effects? ILM, who does the sound? THX a div. of skywalker sound, Hell PIXAR was created by Lucas. Let's face it, asid from Spealberg, Coppala, and MAYBE, MAYBE James Cameron, (DARK ANGEL REPRESENT!), Lucas is the single most powerful entity in film, and he did it, WITHOUT the academy, hence there conmstant snubbing of his films.

"Mom, he has her chip. He has her."
John Connor,"Born To Run", TSCC EP 2x22

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Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:30 AM

GWEK


I find it interesting that a few people have defend Tim Zahn's "rights" and the fact that HE wasn't the one to kill off Mara Jade. To the best of my knowledge, Zahn doesn't have any problem with the fact that Mara was killed off by someone else (happens all the time in the Star Wars universe), any more than he does that Mara has been written by a dozen or more other novelists. Further, I'm pretty sure that LFL would be very happy to have Zahn back (given his popularity and fanbase) so the fact that he hasn't written too many books since the Thrawn trilogy and duology seems to be his choice.

In other words, if Zahn wanted to kill off Mara, he could have.

People sometimes forget that the buck stops with Lucas. Anything that Lucas hasn't written--even if he's approved it--is basically just fanfic that has been paid for.

Traviss, unfortunately, is one of those people. And to me,that's the core of the problem. She Mary Sue'd the Mandalorians.

Reading between the lines, she was given multiple opportunities to reign it in, and she did not. In fact, she proved to be a very disruptive influence when working on the LotF series (read any interview with the three of them, and it's almost like she's writing one series while the other two writers are trying to do something else).

Folk can lament all they want about the Jedi being too powerful, overplayed, and tough to empathize with. I'm not saying those things aren't true. But the Jedi and the Force are the HEART of Star Wars. They are what makes it unique from a thousand other fantasy worlds.

And Traviss crapped on that. She took a few interesting characters and crafted her own depiction of the Mandos and Jedi--in which the Jedi are horrible losers and the Mandos are big damned unstoppable heroes (which happens to conflict with not only Lucas's vision, but also with virtually all the fiction that came before).

Although I enjoyed her early writing, once she got so far into her own fantasy world that she was inventing language, I stopped caring (and, in fact, reading). I find it laughable that EVERYTHING she's done with Boba Fett is based on mistake. According to legitimate canon, Jango Fett was never Mandalore (which means Boba Fett has no claim to the title). The decision to make Jango into Mandalore comes from an article that was published in STAR WARS INSIDER, and appears to be based on a typo (or a lack of comprehension of Jango Fett's history).

Karen Traviss: divisive, disruptive, graceless, and--ultimately--incorrect.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Thursday, April 28, 2011 5:26 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Yanno, it's kind of a damn shame no one has taken the opportunity presented by the mere existence (historical or otherwise) of the Grey Jedi to explore just WHY casting aside their own humanity and emotions(1) and concentrating more and more power into fewer and fewer hands was/is contrary to all they supposedly stand for and directly lead to their downfall at the hands of Vader and others.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Jedi

As well the notion that flaws lie within the user rather than the tool...
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Potentium
And how blaming the tool allowed the willful blindness which gave rise to so many Dark Jedi.

But like many, I too consider many of the in-universe works to be little better than badly written fanfic, and even Alan Dean Foster was not above this, cranking out a downright appallingly bad work (you know the one).

Oh, and as for evening the odds versus Jedi - sentient beings are as a rule tool users, and it's just a matter of finding the appropriate tools, half a dozen Droideka will right handily make mincemeat of Jedi just as quick as anything else, and in the end the only thing that's ever killed more Jedi than those is their own arrogance, which can be a tool against them all by itself.

-Frem
(1) Or non-human equivalent.
PS. Han shot first.

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Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:16 AM

BYTEMITE


KOTOR did it a little, which is why it was so damn interesting (Jolee Bindo, the trope codifier mentioned in the Grey Jedi article was from KOTOR). It's one of the main reasons I find that era a lot more fun than the sequel trilogy interim and the post movie time.

The only downside is the games didn't really have many character options between "hug the puppy!" or "kick the puppy!" But I enjoyed some of the moral dilemmas presented anyway. I learned a lot about myself from playing.

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Friday, April 29, 2011 12:22 AM

JAMERON4EVA


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
KOTOR did it a little, which is why it was so damn interesting (Jolee Bindo, the trope codifier mentioned in the Grey Jedi article was from KOTOR). It's one of the main reasons I find that era a lot more fun than the sequel trilogy interim and the post movie time.

The only downside is the games didn't really have many character options between "hug the puppy!" or "kick the puppy!" But I enjoyed some of the moral dilemmas presented anyway. I learned a lot about myself from playing.



And guess what, the "Old Republic" era is getting more noticed now. Drew is reutrning to wite about Revan, we had a series of 3 books written not to long ago about Bane, and all a MILLENIA before Phantom Menace. But personally, im gettin ready to devote some time to CLONE WARS, i've missed the first three seasons, but ima buy the dvd's, and when tv gets back, ima watch the new season, cuz now it's getting dark, hence the later start time for the new season.


"Mom, he has her chip. He has her."
John Connor,"Born To Run", TSCC EP 2x22

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