TALK STORY

Ghosts exist, yes or no? On the fence?

POSTED BY: WISHIMAY
UPDATED: Saturday, March 4, 2017 23:14
SHORT URL: http://bit.ly/1cwsqqn
VIEWED: 4910
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Tuesday, October 29, 2013 2:56 PM

WISHIMAY

"Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry _________________The more we are protected, the more we are trapped within. -P. Gabriel----Nothin' worse than a monster who thinks he's right with god. -Mal


I think I'll go with "on the fence."

I don't think there is, but I never completely rule out anything I don't know about....

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Tuesday, October 29, 2013 7:17 PM

BYTEMITE


Nope.

When the body of evidence remains inconclusive after centuries of investigation, and positive evidence is often shown to have been falsified or used for charlatanism and scams, it is not unreasonable to be skeptical of any claimed phenomenon.

I am atheist as opposed to agnostic for similar reasons.

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Tuesday, October 29, 2013 7:28 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


No.



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Wednesday, October 30, 2013 6:32 AM

OONJERAH



Souls, spirits, Yes.

Spooky stuff, hauntings, on the fence ...
More is possible than we know.


======================-}
Please consult your local transmedium.

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Wednesday, October 30, 2013 10:19 AM

MUTT999



Yes.


Proof.



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Wednesday, October 30, 2013 11:55 AM

ZEEK


Nope. Think of how many billions of people have lived on this planet. If there were ghosts they'd be everywhere by now. Since we can't seem to find them I'm going to have to say they don't exist.

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Wednesday, October 30, 2013 12:20 PM

BYTEMITE


Related conjecture: Ghostbusters is still an awesome movie despite the existence or non-existence of ghosts.

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Wednesday, October 30, 2013 2:05 PM

WISHIMAY

"Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry _________________The more we are protected, the more we are trapped within. -P. Gabriel----Nothin' worse than a monster who thinks he's right with god. -Mal


Yeah, mah kid really loves those. Was her favorite two years ago, and I hear there may be another in the planning stages, maybe...

http://www.movieweb.com/movie/ghostbusters-3

Still no release date...

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Wednesday, October 30, 2013 4:51 PM

SC_FF_FAN


I've had no haunting events in my life to support a ghost theory, so I don't believe in them. I still like a good ghost story and the unexplained, so watched the X-files and I'm thoroughly enjoying the new Sleepy Hollow series.

I've had a few close calls in real life that could have gone really wrong, so I sort of lean towards believing in angels more than ghosts that just want to instill fear.

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Wednesday, October 30, 2013 11:22 PM

ARTCAT81


I believe.
My car came with a passenger, it's a 2003 Subaru Baja, I am owner #5, and when I bought it, it had 30,000miles,it's now up to 150,000 and it had a clear title no wrecks. The passenger, I call him George, first few times he appeared in my backseat (while I was driving) I nearly jumped out of my car on a 6 lane highway - thought I was being carjacked (what would you do or think if you saw a 30ish bald pale eyed white guy in your rear view mirror sitting in the back passenger side seat when you knew you were alone in the car?)What stopped me from jumping out was going 65mph, I rolled up to a light hand on the gear shift ready to pull it to park and jump out and run when I realized I could see headlights through his head.

After his first two "visits" I pulled over and had a nice long talk to the air of my car. basically saying "its my car now, you are welcome to enjoy the ride, but I'm not going anywhere and no more freaking me out at hwy speeds!"

He seems to enjoy the ride, and only appears after major car work now vs. much more regular visits when I first bought the car.

His only other trick is cranking the volume up or down on my radio (the volume control you can physically watch turn up or down - if it wasnt physically moving, i would blame an electrical gremlin)- I have 2 other people who have witnessed the volume thing, one did jump out of my car (we were in a drive through) - he took some convincing to get him back in the car. Neither knew about my car's extra passenger.
I was picking up Redfeather (Mr. I don't believe in ghosts) one evening, and as he walked up to the car he kept looking at the back window. He got in and said "Hi guys" I asked who else he was saying hi to, he thought my brother was in the back seat and had to turn around to be convinced I wasnt hiding a brother in the back. He hasn't made fun of my belief in ghosts since that evening.

As much as it freaked me out at first, I find it kinda comforting now knowing I have company, even if I have to fuss sometimes to stop the radio games.

I have other unexplained experiences, but the rest are way easier explained than my car adventures.

My shop www.texasartcat.com

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Wednesday, January 1, 2014 8:49 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


no

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Wednesday, January 1, 2014 10:59 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
Nope. Think of how many billions of people have lived on this planet. If there were ghosts they'd be everywhere by now. Since we can't seem to find them I'm going to have to say they don't exist.



My view as well. What determines who gets to become a ghost, and who doesn't ? Unresolved issues ? Hell, I bet most of us harken back to missed opportunities or lost loves of some sort. If you tell me that spirits usually just waltz to the here after, with out a care on their minds or longing to 'stay around', I'm not buyin' it.


I think ghosts are like alien visitors... they're in our heads, and no where else.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, January 1, 2014 11:04 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Nope.

When the body of evidence remains inconclusive after centuries of investigation, and positive evidence is often shown to have been falsified or used for charlatanism and scams, it is not unreasonable to be skeptical of any claimed phenomenon.

I am atheist as opposed to agnostic for similar reasons.



Ditto.

Exactly.



*-------------------------------------------------------------*
MAL4PREZ: Clearly [The Rap]'s doing nothing but trolling now.
STORYMARK: And not even cleverly.
RAPPY: [My trolling] did its job, did it not? Easiest marks in the 'verse.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57146
*-------------------------------------------------------------*

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Wednesday, January 1, 2014 11:07 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I think ghosts are like alien visitors... they're in our heads, and no where else.


I say this of all the major and minor Gods. They exist as psychological constructs, so their effect on believers is real. But they do exist outside the human spirit/brain and separate, independent, actual existent beings.




*-------------------------------------------------------------*
MAL4PREZ: Clearly [The Rap]'s doing nothing but trolling now.
STORYMARK: And not even cleverly.
RAPPY: [My trolling] did its job, did it not? Easiest marks in the 'verse.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57146
*-------------------------------------------------------------*

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Thursday, January 2, 2014 3:47 AM

VERASAMUELS


Having heard two different Diocesan 'exhorcists' on the subject, I believe there's something, sometimes. Whether that is actually a ghost in the usual understanding of the term is another matter...

Devout Keeper of Jayne's Lunchbox

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Thursday, January 2, 2014 5:15 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by VeraSamuels:
. . . I believe there's something, sometimes. Whether that is actually a ghost in the usual understanding of the term is another matter...

Ghosts I've Known

People used to say that the dorm I lived in my sophomore year of college was haunted, that there was a ghost in Hewitt Hall. The details were unclear, but the general consensus was that sometime, a while back, a student had taken his life there and now that same unfortunate soul haunted the dormitory. People claimed they saw things: the figure of a young man behind you as you brushed your teeth in the mirror, an apparition that always vanished when you turned around to investigate.

Some reported hearing loud crashes at the end of the hall, bottles breaking, garbage cans being hurled about. One student swore that every time she went into the co-ed bathrooms a faucet would inexplicably turn off and on by itself. But I never saw or heard anything. And I haunted that dorm far more than any ghost.

( Dec 31 2013 from www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/12/ghosts-ive-known/282035/ )

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, May 24, 2014 3:55 AM

OONJERAH



"Ghosts don't haunt us. That's not how it works. They're present
among us because we won't let go of them." ~Sue Grafton

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Saturday, May 24, 2014 7:53 AM

WISHIMAY

"Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry _________________The more we are protected, the more we are trapped within. -P. Gabriel----Nothin' worse than a monster who thinks he's right with god. -Mal


I will say one time, I thought I saw the image of a person descend a set of stairs, but I was completely alone and lucid at the time. I have a hard time turning off my brain at night and I think I see a LOT of things that aren't there, so, I dunno.....

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Saturday, May 24, 2014 1:50 PM

BRENDA


I've seen ghosts. My dad's, my mom's. The late husband of a friend of my mom's. A friend of mine, my late fiance.

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Sunday, May 25, 2014 12:29 AM

OONJERAH



When my favorite aunt died, quite expectedly, she appeared
to me in a dream, riding by, smiling ear to ear, very happy.



... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Tuesday, May 27, 2014 8:31 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


It would help if you could define what you consider "ghosts" for the purposes of discussion.

Since you haven't, I must say yes. No fence straddling.

If following posters could specify spirit, demon, unascended ghost (stranded, hasn't left yet), waiting spirit/ghost (between death and funeral), haunting, or whatever else, that would help.
Also, audio, physcho, kinetic, visible, sixth sense, whichever.

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Tuesday, May 27, 2014 8:51 PM

WISHIMAY

"Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry _________________The more we are protected, the more we are trapped within. -P. Gabriel----Nothin' worse than a monster who thinks he's right with god. -Mal


Yeah, somehow I don't think they stopped to question what it was they were seeing and/or classify it

Lets go with "things out of the ordinary"??

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Wednesday, May 28, 2014 7:12 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
Yeah, somehow I don't think they stopped to question what it was they were seeing and/or classify it

Lets go with "things out of the ordinary"??


OK, seeing indicates vision, an apparition. I don't think I've seen one, but most kids are more attuned to this, and my childhood talents went away mostly during Boot Camp. I do still believe in the manifestation of a visual presence.

Things out of the ordinary also brings in things which sometimes intersect with spirits, those dead but not yet passed thru, those both dead and already passed thru ("The Light"). Such as remote viewing (used to find bodies as well as other tasks), deja vu, premonition, mediums, others.
If you want to see another demonstration of remote viewing, see the special features on the DVD for Suspect Zero.
That lady from Cleveland (Mary Ann Winkowski) who was the basis and technical expert for The Ghost Whisperer has a pretty good book on her aspect of the subject. But she only does those between death and passing thru, she cannot communicate with those already passed thru.

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Thursday, May 21, 2015 9:34 AM

THGRRI

May the Good Lord take a liking to you... but not too soon!


Nope, do not think they do.


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Thursday, May 21, 2015 7:23 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by REBECCAHGIFFARD26:
Yes, I believe in ghosts and they really exists because I witnessed one when I was 8 years old while I'm on a vacation inside my grandma's house in the province:)

REBECCAHGIFFARD26


Where was the house? how old was it? Was your Grandmother the first owner of the house?

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Thursday, December 29, 2016 7:08 PM

WISHIMAY

"Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry _________________The more we are protected, the more we are trapped within. -P. Gabriel----Nothin' worse than a monster who thinks he's right with god. -Mal


It could have been a mining controlled explosion, or some other set explosion, like blowing up a small building?

We live within a stone's throw of three mines, we are always shake, rattle, and rolling...

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Thursday, December 29, 2016 7:11 PM

WISHIMAY

"Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry _________________The more we are protected, the more we are trapped within. -P. Gabriel----Nothin' worse than a monster who thinks he's right with god. -Mal


bump

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Thursday, February 23, 2017 7:24 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
It could have been a mining controlled explosion, or some other set explosion, like blowing up a small building?

We live within a stone's throw of three mines, we are always shake, rattle, and rolling...


Were there deaths at the mine?

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Thursday, February 23, 2017 11:21 PM

WISHIMAY

"Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry _________________The more we are protected, the more we are trapped within. -P. Gabriel----Nothin' worse than a monster who thinks he's right with god. -Mal


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Were there deaths at the mine?



Probably.

I have had a ton of night terrors since we've been here, but usually the weird things I see and hear can be explained by passing cars or radios or noisy drunken neighbors. It's the ones my brain manifests where people are in the room and talking to me that absolutely scare the high holy bejeezus out of me though. It's like I'm seeing things in dream state, but my eyes are open. One of the reasons I had to start sleeping in another room was I would still be in dream state and flogging hubby to get up, but by the time we were both awake there was no one there. I could FEEL hot breath on my ear sometimes, too.

These days I just sit bolt upright and scream "WHERE'S MY PURSE??!!" I had to start hanging my purse on a hook by the door so I could find it easier. I keep feeling like I've forgotten paperwork, drives me looney tooney.

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Friday, February 24, 2017 4:26 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Were there deaths at the mine?



Probably.

I have had a ton of night terrors since we've been here, but usually the weird things I see and hear can be explained by passing cars or radios or noisy drunken neighbors. It's the ones my brain manifests where people are in the room and talking to me that absolutely scare the high holy bejeezus out of me though. It's like I'm seeing things in dream state, but my eyes are open. One of the reasons I had to start sleeping in another room was I would still be in dream state and flogging hubby to get up, but by the time we were both awake there was no one there. I could FEEL hot breath on my ear sometimes, too.

These days I just sit bolt upright and scream "WHERE'S MY PURSE??!!" I had to start hanging my purse on a hook by the door so I could find it easier. I keep feeling like I've forgotten paperwork, drives me looney tooney.


Noisy drunken neighbors.
I had been under the impression you lived more rural. Do your neighbors also have ghosts from the mine? Are they nearer the mine? If the extra-sensory experiences were mine related, one might think more than just you are getting the same willies.

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Friday, February 24, 2017 8:16 PM

WISHIMAY

"Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry _________________The more we are protected, the more we are trapped within. -P. Gabriel----Nothin' worse than a monster who thinks he's right with god. -Mal


It's a rural community, 20 minutes to anywhere, except other rural communities. And I wouldn't want to get to know most of these people well enough to ask them about sleep patterns. I'll have to dig up that thread about the neighborhood stalker and update it

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Friday, February 24, 2017 9:20 PM

THGRRI

May the Good Lord take a liking to you... but not too soon!


I don't understand, what's left to discuss. MUTT999 provided proof at the beginning of the thread, pictures and everything.



---------------------


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Friday, February 24, 2017 11:19 PM

WISHIMAY

"Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry _________________The more we are protected, the more we are trapped within. -P. Gabriel----Nothin' worse than a monster who thinks he's right with god. -Mal


There is no thread on FFF that can't be picked up and chewed on a little bit more Maybe we should call that.... flossing, hah.

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Saturday, February 25, 2017 4:20 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
I don't understand, what's left to discuss. MUTT999 provided proof at the beginning of the thread, pictures and everything.





Your gullibility level indicates you are a viewer of CNN, PMSNBC, and other Lib**** Fake News entertainment shows.

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Saturday, February 25, 2017 8:47 PM

WISHIMAY

"Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry _________________The more we are protected, the more we are trapped within. -P. Gabriel----Nothin' worse than a monster who thinks he's right with god. -Mal


He was kidding JSF...

Take the politicals back to RWED, thanks.

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Sunday, February 26, 2017 4:44 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
He was kidding JSF...

Take the politicals back to RWED, thanks.


Thank you for pointing out this was not RWED.
Did not realize, with the subject matter.
I had surmised he was kidding. I had intended that you infer I was also joshing, replying in kind.

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Sunday, February 26, 2017 7:49 PM

WISHIMAY

"Well, so long Earth. Thanks for the air... and what-not." -Philip J. Fry _________________The more we are protected, the more we are trapped within. -P. Gabriel----Nothin' worse than a monster who thinks he's right with god. -Mal


Um, you need to work on better material. Little dry.

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Tuesday, February 28, 2017 5:11 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
Um, you need to work on better material. Little dry.



I thought it was pretty funny. Actually, at first, JFS, you had me fooled, I thought you'd actually stepped over the line and tracked the mud of of thunderdome, i mean, RWED, into sanityland and punched a browncoat, even if it was only T

Seriously?

Yes, they do. Here's my logic. I've had waking hallucinations and dreams. In those, there are dead people. Everyone else has had this experience too. Those people then tell you things that they might have said. So, they are haunting you.

If someone says they exist in some energyfield or someone else says it's all in your head, either way, they can talk to you and can't touch anything, so what's the difference?

Science could prove that they don't exist, and then in some other form, prove again that they do. Are they sentient connections of their former selves? That's a much harder one to answer. Do I think they travel through some cosmic plane? No, but what do I know? I assume they impress themselves on your subconscious which re-creates them later, but again, what's the difference, the end effect is the same.

For those who want a more mystical approach, I did have this surreal experience as a kid. we were running a B&B in a haunted mansion, it was empty, except for us, and the whole situation was at least the Others level of creepy. This man came to stay one night, he'd never heard of us or the town, but broke down here, very twilight zone. I'd never had a tv and didn't know that the world wasn't really like this, that people didn't really live in haunted castles with no electricity and walk around with candleholders to see their way, i knew they did it in books, and we did, so it all made perfect sense. So that night he went up, and the next morning he asked about the other gentleman who was staying in the building. We asked, and he described a very good desription of the building's creator, who had unbeknownst to him, been shot in the building over a century earlier. It was clear that when we told him that he was genuinely freaked out, so I don't think it was a prank. What he had scene and why, I don't know. He'd perhaps seen a photo somewhere in the house, and then had a dream? or he'd actually saw him standing at the end of the hall as he told us. I'll never know. But again, does it matter?

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Tuesday, February 28, 2017 5:12 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Nope.

When the body of evidence remains inconclusive after centuries of investigation, and positive evidence is often shown to have been falsified or used for charlatanism and scams, it is not unreasonable to be skeptical of any claimed phenomenon.

I am atheist as opposed to agnostic for similar reasons.



Byte, does the sense of smell also not exist?

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Wednesday, March 1, 2017 7:11 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
Um, you need to work on better material. Little dry.



I thought it was pretty funny. Actually, at first, JFS, you had me fooled, I thought you'd actually stepped over the line and tracked the mud of of thunderdome, i mean, RWED, into sanityland and punched a browncoat, even if it was only T


Thanks for yer support. However, I already admitted I thought this was REWD (based on topic), while still replying in kind. And I thanked Wishi for pointing this out.
Quote:


Seriously?

Yes, they do. Here's my logic. I've had waking hallucinations and dreams. In those, there are dead people. Everyone else has had this experience too. Those people then tell you things that they might have said. So, they are haunting you.


These occurrences happened while a child? Or as adult?
I am not sure which discussions you have missed out on during your respite, so I'll mention you should check out the DVD for Suspect Zero (Ben Kingsley, Aaron Eckart, Carrie-Anne Moss) and, if nothing else, view the special featurette demonstration. But not first if you are going to watch the movie - it would be a definite spoiler.
Quote:


If someone says they exist in some energyfield or someone else says it's all in your head, either way, they can talk to you and can't touch anything, so what's the difference?

Science could prove that they don't exist, and then in some other form, prove again that they do. Are they sentient connections of their former selves? That's a much harder one to answer. Do I think they travel through some cosmic plane? No, but what do I know? I assume they impress themselves on your subconscious which re-creates them later, but again, what's the difference, the end effect is the same.

For those who want a more mystical approach, I did have this surreal experience as a kid. we were running a B&B in a haunted mansion, it was empty, except for us, and the whole situation was at least the Others level of creepy. This man came to stay one night, he'd never heard of us or the town, but broke down here, very twilight zone. I'd never had a tv and didn't know that the world wasn't really like this, that people didn't really live in haunted castles with no electricity and walk around with candleholders to see their way, i knew they did it in books, and we did, so it all made perfect sense. So that night he went up, and the next morning he asked about the other gentleman who was staying in the building. We asked, and he described a very good desription of the building's creator, who had unbeknownst to him, been shot in the building over a century earlier. It was clear that when we told him that he was genuinely freaked out, so I don't think it was a prank. What he had scene and why, I don't know. He'd perhaps seen a photo somewhere in the house, and then had a dream? or he'd actually saw him standing at the end of the hall as he told us. I'll never know. But again, does it matter?


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Wednesday, March 1, 2017 10:29 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
Um, you need to work on better material. Little dry.



I thought it was pretty funny. Actually, at first, JFS, you had me fooled, I thought you'd actually stepped over the line and tracked the mud of of thunderdome, i mean, RWED, into sanityland and punched a browncoat, even if it was only T


Thanks for yer support. However, I already admitted I thought this was REWD (based on topic), while still replying in kind. And I thanked Wishi for pointing this out.
Quote:


Seriously?

Yes, they do. Here's my logic. I've had waking hallucinations and dreams. In those, there are dead people. Everyone else has had this experience too. Those people then tell you things that they might have said. So, they are haunting you.


These occurrences happened while a child? Or as adult?
I am not sure which discussions you have missed out on during your respite, so I'll mention you should check out the DVD for Suspect Zero (Ben Kingsley, Aaron Eckart, Carrie-Anne Moss) and, if nothing else, view the special featurette demonstration. But not first if you are going to watch the movie - it would be a definite spoiler.
Quote:


If someone says they exist in some energyfield or someone else says it's all in your head, either way, they can talk to you and can't touch anything, so what's the difference?

Science could prove that they don't exist, and then in some other form, prove again that they do. Are they sentient connections of their former selves? That's a much harder one to answer. Do I think they travel through some cosmic plane? No, but what do I know? I assume they impress themselves on your subconscious which re-creates them later, but again, what's the difference, the end effect is the same.

For those who want a more mystical approach, I did have this surreal experience as a kid. we were running a B&B in a haunted mansion, it was empty, except for us, and the whole situation was at least the Others level of creepy. This man came to stay one night, he'd never heard of us or the town, but broke down here, very twilight zone. I'd never had a tv and didn't know that the world wasn't really like this, that people didn't really live in haunted castles with no electricity and walk around with candleholders to see their way, i knew they did it in books, and we did, so it all made perfect sense. So that night he went up, and the next morning he asked about the other gentleman who was staying in the building. We asked, and he described a very good desription of the building's creator, who had unbeknownst to him, been shot in the building over a century earlier. It was clear that when we told him that he was genuinely freaked out, so I don't think it was a prank. What he had scene and why, I don't know. He'd perhaps seen a photo somewhere in the house, and then had a dream? or he'd actually saw him standing at the end of the hall as he told us. I'll never know. But again, does it matter?




okay i missed that detail

second, as an adult. i didn't know a lot of dead people as a child. the story of the B&B i was a kid but i wasn't the one who saw dead people then.

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Thursday, March 2, 2017 2:30 PM

THGRRI

May the Good Lord take a liking to you... but not too soon!


Quote:

Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
Um, you need to work on better material. Little dry.


I thought it was pretty funny. Actually, at first, JFS, you had me fooled, I thought you'd actually stepped over the line and tracked the mud of of thunderdome, i mean, RWED, into sanityland and punched a browncoat, even if it was only T



He did cross over. Just as you tried to do. In a way that is not easily noticed. You know that right sockpuppet err, dreamtrove?

No harm no foul.

---------------------


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Thursday, March 2, 2017 2:51 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
He did cross over. Just as you tried to do. In a way that is not easily noticed. You know that right sockpuppet err, dreamtrove?

No harm no foul.

---------------------


Sorry T, I missed me taking politics out of RWED. I'll snark everyone. I actually thought he was joking, continuing your joke about the pictures of ghosts, which in turn was snarking all of RWED. Now I see he just fell for it.

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Thursday, March 2, 2017 6:46 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
Um, you need to work on better material. Little dry.



I thought it was pretty funny. Actually, at first, JFS, you had me fooled, I thought you'd actually stepped over the line and tracked the mud of of thunderdome, i mean, RWED, into sanityland and punched a browncoat, even if it was only T


Thanks for yer support. However, I already admitted I thought this was REWD (based on topic), while still replying in kind. And I thanked Wishi for pointing this out.
Quote:


Seriously?

Yes, they do. Here's my logic. I've had waking hallucinations and dreams. In those, there are dead people. Everyone else has had this experience too. Those people then tell you things that they might have said. So, they are haunting you.


These occurrences happened while a child? Or as adult?
I am not sure which discussions you have missed out on during your respite, so I'll mention you should check out the DVD for Suspect Zero (Ben Kingsley, Aaron Eckart, Carrie-Anne Moss) and, if nothing else, view the special featurette demonstration. But not first if you are going to watch the movie - it would be a definite spoiler.
Quote:


If someone says they exist in some energyfield or someone else says it's all in your head, either way, they can talk to you and can't touch anything, so what's the difference?

Science could prove that they don't exist, and then in some other form, prove again that they do. Are they sentient connections of their former selves? That's a much harder one to answer. Do I think they travel through some cosmic plane? No, but what do I know? I assume they impress themselves on your subconscious which re-creates them later, but again, what's the difference, the end effect is the same.

For those who want a more mystical approach, I did have this surreal experience as a kid. we were running a B&B in a haunted mansion, it was empty, except for us, and the whole situation was at least the Others level of creepy. This man came to stay one night, he'd never heard of us or the town, but broke down here, very twilight zone. I'd never had a tv and didn't know that the world wasn't really like this, that people didn't really live in haunted castles with no electricity and walk around with candleholders to see their way, i knew they did it in books, and we did, so it all made perfect sense. So that night he went up, and the next morning he asked about the other gentleman who was staying in the building. We asked, and he described a very good desription of the building's creator, who had unbeknownst to him, been shot in the building over a century earlier. It was clear that when we told him that he was genuinely freaked out, so I don't think it was a prank. What he had scene and why, I don't know. He'd perhaps seen a photo somewhere in the house, and then had a dream? or he'd actually saw him standing at the end of the hall as he told us. I'll never know. But again, does it matter?




okay i missed that detail

second, as an adult. i didn't know a lot of dead people as a child. the story of the B&B i was a kid but i wasn't the one who saw dead people then.


Many people lose the ability to perceive extra-sensory when they transition to adult. These inter-connected abilities can include ghosts, Deja Vu, precognition, remote viewing, helping the dead cross over, OBE, etc. If you had the ability as an adult, you may still retain the capability.

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Friday, March 3, 2017 1:09 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Many people lose the ability to perceive extra-sensory when they transition to adult. These inter-connected abilities can include ghosts, Deja Vu, precognition, remote viewing, helping the dead cross over, OBE, etc. If you had the ability as an adult, you may still retain the capability.



I lost the ability in my 30s when I was "cured" by the men in white coats. That made me "sane" which I wish someday to learn to undo, after I learn how to survive.

I spent some time working through the science of it, and what I came to was that, okay, maybe we live in an SE Lain world, and there's something existential going on; or maybe our network is just the collective unconscious.

If you think about it, ants achieve both telepathy and the intelligence of roughly a human, even though we have a million times larger a brain, through their amazing ability to tap into the collective unconscious. Ergo, it's pretty powerful stuff. Certainly it's how dreams work. All those people in your dreams are recorded copies of real people, but they're amazingly accurate in anyway. That girl who turned you down? good luck picking her up in your dream. She's probably stilll miffed at you.

But why not, I mean, we exist in the communication between brain cells within our own body. If we show up in other people's dreams, and we know we do, than that reflection can have a larger dispersion across the larger network.

If someone were to broadcast themselves to me to the point where they appear in my dreams, then i broadcast myself to you, it's possible, and probable, that i'm also rebroadcasting them as well, even though you haven't met them and may not even know they exist.

I did some neurological work in grad school on nano-networking that occurs inside brain cells. Networks get duplicated on a smaller and smaller level, where an entire human consciousness can be replicated inwards, because the limiting factor is really the size of the moleules. So, while the cell is If the brain is e+2 and each cell of is ergo e-10, there is another e-14 within it. Which is plenty of wiggleroom to work form.

Deja vu I picture as working the same way as chess. You've unconsciously calculated the possible events of the next six moves and discarded all of the dead ends, and then went on to the seventh. the brain could do the same thing with time on an epic scale.

With ghosts, the next question would be, if a conscious can exist and transmit itself in this form, how long could it theoretically realistically survive for? I know that viruses that transcribe some or all of their dna can be reconstituted thousands of years later even if the initial dna has decayed, as long as the fragments are brought back into contact.

This leads me to the idea that it's theoretically possible for such a transferred image of a consciousness to reconstitute and possess someone. I think that's not likely as the host would hopefully have a much strong consciousness themselves. But this is a Sci-fi forum, so do i think all of that is possible? Yes, with or without a serial experiment lain universe, which I definitely cannot prove we do not live in.

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Saturday, March 4, 2017 4:34 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
Yeah, somehow I don't think they stopped to question what it was they were seeing and/or classify it

Lets go with "things out of the ordinary"??


OK, seeing indicates vision, an apparition. I don't think I've seen one, but most kids are more attuned to this, and my childhood talents went away mostly during Boot Camp. I do still believe in the manifestation of a visual presence.

Things out of the ordinary also brings in things which sometimes intersect with spirits, those dead but not yet passed thru, those both dead and already passed thru ("The Light"). Such as remote viewing (used to find bodies as well as other tasks), deja vu, premonition, mediums, others.
If you want to see another demonstration of remote viewing, see the special features on the DVD for Suspect Zero.
That lady from Cleveland (Mary Ann Winkowski) who was the basis and technical expert for The Ghost Whisperer has a pretty good book on her aspect of the subject. But she only does those between death and passing thru, she cannot communicate with those already passed thru.


Just last night Mary Ann Winkowski was the guest for a few hours of interview and taking phone calls on Coast-to-Cast radio show.

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Saturday, March 4, 2017 4:50 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


This looks like nothing more than an exercise in denial of the evidence.
Not trying to belittle, it seems an admirable pursuit of explanation. Like explaining why God must exist because there is no scientific evidence.
Quote:

Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Many people lose the ability to perceive extra-sensory when they transition to adult. These inter-connected abilities can include ghosts, Deja Vu, precognition, remote viewing, helping the dead cross over, OBE, etc. If you had the ability as an adult, you may still retain the capability.



I lost the ability in my 30s when I was "cured" by the men in white coats. That made me "sane" which I wish someday to learn to undo, after I learn how to survive.

I spent some time working through the science of it, and what I came to was that, okay, maybe we live in an SE Lain world, and there's something existential going on; or maybe our network is just the collective unconscious.

If you think about it, ants achieve both telepathy and the intelligence of roughly a human, even though we have a million times larger a brain, through their amazing ability to tap into the collective unconscious. Ergo, it's pretty powerful stuff. Certainly it's how dreams work. All those people in your dreams are recorded copies of real people, but they're amazingly accurate in anyway. That girl who turned you down? good luck picking her up in your dream. She's probably stilll miffed at you.

But why not, I mean, we exist in the communication between brain cells within our own body. If we show up in other people's dreams, and we know we do, than that reflection can have a larger dispersion across the larger network.

If someone were to broadcast themselves to me to the point where they appear in my dreams, then i broadcast myself to you, it's possible, and probable, that i'm also rebroadcasting them as well, even though you haven't met them and may not even know they exist.

I did some neurological work in grad school on nano-networking that occurs inside brain cells. Networks get duplicated on a smaller and smaller level, where an entire human consciousness can be replicated inwards, because the limiting factor is really the size of the moleules. So, while the cell is If the brain is e+2 and each cell of is ergo e-10, there is another e-14 within it. Which is plenty of wiggleroom to work form.

Deja vu I picture as working the same way as chess. You've unconsciously calculated the possible events of the next six moves and discarded all of the dead ends, and then went on to the seventh. the brain could do the same thing with time on an epic scale.


I've played Chess, and I've had a lot of Deja Vu - I don't see any correlation which fits your description - it doesn't mesh with reality for me.
Sounds, spoken words, gestures, specific clothes, people, knowing what is about to happen behind you a second before it happens, what somebody is about to say a second before it happens, what will crash or fall a second before it happens, all happening at the one and only time and place in the universal timeline that it could possibly happen. I don't see how that fits your description - so maybe I don't understnad your explanation.
The Deja Vu episode I recall as most repetitive repeated at least 13 times - I didn't count the repetitions prior to those - until the final time was the only place , time, year, date in world history that it could have happened - so it was the real world event, yet it felt exactly as real as all of the prior 13+ sequences.
Quote:


With ghosts, the next question would be, if a conscious can exist and transmit itself in this form, how long could it theoretically realistically survive for? I know that viruses that transcribe some or all of their dna can be reconstituted thousands of years later even if the initial dna has decayed, as long as the fragments are brought back into contact.

This leads me to the idea that it's theoretically possible for such a transferred image of a consciousness to reconstitute and possess someone. I think that's not likely as the host would hopefully have a much strong consciousness themselves. But this is a Sci-fi forum, so do i think all of that is possible? Yes, with or without a serial experiment lain universe, which I definitely cannot prove we do not live in.


I am wondering - do you feel that Nostradomus can fit within the framework of this theory you have described? Or of people in your future, who you will meet through others you have also not met yet, from other events which have not transpired yet? It would seem that for events which happen in the future, there are many limitations to your concept of rebroadcasting dreams.

I am not familiar with SE Lain, so maybe that is a major missing portion of the explanation for me.

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Saturday, March 4, 2017 11:14 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Chess, Nostradomus...
Or of people in your future, who you will meet through others you have also not met yet, from other events which have not transpired yet? It would seem that for events which happen in the future, there are many limitations to your concept of rebroadcasting dreams.

I am not familiar with SE Lain, so maybe that is a major missing portion of the explanation for me.



Okay, see Serial Experiment Lain. Essentially the idea that the universe can be explained in terms of information theory. It's true that you can posit 3 dimensional space and everything in it form the basic relations of information theory as sort of foregone conclusions, which leads one to the possibility that even a matrix like reality would be conceivable. The computational power would be immense and that's not where SE Lain goes. But that the universe itself is capable of hold and transmitting data.

That's one possibility outside of the collective unconscious.

One thing in any science is if you are to accept the possibility of a science, like precognition or life after death, in addition to "accepted science" then, as with all other sciences, there will be crackpots in that field. So, a large number of things you read are going to be bogus, but that doesn't mean that the phenomenon doesn't exist.

So, taking my own experiences, and filing them into one of these two categories as the SE Lain possibility, that the fabric of spacetime is an information network, then the solution seems self evident. Alternatively, as collective unconscious, they may in face be echoes, like in the Dr. Who episode with the library, but instead within a computer system, this is within the human mind as an information network, or rather the human race. Since we know ants and bees and termites function in this fashion, it's not inconceivable to think that humans could.

And could would be the second operative word. Not everyone would necessarily leave an imprint on either information system.

As for future people: If the imprint is significant enough, it might create a self-perpetuating influence. Figure even with a human collective unconscious as the information system, a human makes x # of impressions on x # of humans, and then exists in a shadow within those humans, that shadow could then create a secondary reflection, and with enough reinforcement, could ultimately create one stronger than the initial impressions. If so, then I'd probably have to concede to the possbility of the divinity of Christ. I figure that the people who sincerely believe in him may very well have met him.

Have I met ghosts I didn't know? Yes. Can I confirm this? No, i didn't know them, so I can't definitely say that vision was this dead person, it's possible that I was delusional (dubious) or that it was some form of alien life (skeptical but possible) I've gone through a number of other possible explanations in my life, such as that perhaps we have several little currents of neural soul living inside of us, and one takes over control of the brain and becomes "us" and these others are people that didn't.

Now as to the chess question.
If you see the universe as an infinite chess game and the mind as an infinite computer, than there would be a logically determinable number of steps that could be theoretically predicted by the mind. Logically, this could force us out of the narrow time window of unmeasurably small monomer events into a spectrum of temporal range of a moving time window. In fact, it more or less must be so, since the brain cannot process data at the same rate things can happen. If this window is normally .075 seconds, then with the proper amount of subconscious precognition, it could expand to say 7.5 seconds, which would be pretty much in the window of deja vu, without any trouble, and could expand a great deal further if dealing with more vague details of larger situations.

Nostradamus..

Sufficient scope of time with sufficient vaguery and large enough scale events, sure, this can be done.

I use to predict the future all the time, and was quite good at it. I was hired by two brokerage firms and made them a lot of money. I would also predict political events, and social ones. I found it got to a point where I would know basically what would be said in a given conversation. At that point, precognition is colliding with telepathy. I found that knowing what they were going to say led to knowing what they weren't going to say, which led to knowing what they were thinking.

Now, the explanation of the possible existence of these phenomena seems to bother you, because it doesn't call for the creation of some new magic.

Consider if you will that now that we understand chaos theory and string theory and have figured out how wormholes and teleportation and time travel happen within the universe, that all of this was done using what we knew, because we knew it. To the medieval minds that didn't know it, all of this was magic, and so were many other things, like magnets, and tides, and indeed herbal medicines were witchcraft because no one understood biochemistry, and plagues and storms were the work of gods. Picture priests in 1348 trying to pray the plague away.

We have to try to understand the world with the tools we have, but that doesn't mean we can't do it, only that sometimes we'll be wrong.

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