Your Thoughts on the Soul by Oonjerah

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Your Thoughts on the Soul

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POSTED BY: OONJERAH
UPDATED: Wednesday, April 4, 2012 04:00
SHORT URL: http://bit.ly/xwVw0U
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Friday, March 16, 2012 7:03 PM

I have not a scientific mind nor much gathered information about this topic.
Nor do I trust my own logic and senses to tell the truth about it. When I say Soul, I am
not thinking in terms of religion, but more of anecdotal claims of spiritual knowledge.

Question: Do humans have souls?

Weight of the human soul => http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp
experiment decribed on Snopes.

Victorian doctor who weighed the human soul => http://boingboing.net/2010/05/14/victorian-doctor-who.html

Mary Roach, Spook - Science Tackles the Afterlife => http://www.maryroach.net/spook.html

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Saturday, March 17, 2012 4:44 AM

WISHIMAY

I don't think this is EXACTLY what you are looking for, but I thought you might find a posting from my alter ego interesting...

http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=2&tid=43533&mid=783142#78
3142

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Saturday, March 17, 2012 4:54 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I've long since stopped doing any research on the matter because I don't think man's consciousness is equipped to process that sort of question, all you will find are opinions. My opinion is that there is an ego that thinks of itself as me and that's about all I can really know. The ego is not necessarily the same as a soul, but it's the closest I've got.

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Saturday, March 17, 2012 6:53 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

One of those references is to a headline: "Soul Has Weight, Physician Thinks." I think the loss of weight at death is no more accurate at detecting a soul than weighing the loss of electricity in a dying rechargeable battery. That Physician needs a more accurate measurement than weight. I suggest River, who can read the minds of the living, make the measurement. When River starts reading the minds of the dead, that will be positive proof of the soul's afterlife. She will probably publish a paper, with Simon as coauthor, on the subject in the journal Science.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:18 PM

OONJERAH

Quote Two: "I think the loss of weight at death is no more accurate at detecting a soul than weighing the loss of electricity
in a dying rechargeable battery. That Physician needs a more accurate measurement than weight.

Indeed! If the soul even had weight, his method was a bit like doing brain surgery with a hammer and Drill.

Quote ECGordon: "I don't think man's consciousness is equipped to process that sort of question, all you will find are opinions."

Yes, that's it! We have opinions.

If I believe that our consciousness does not survive the body's death = No soul, I still can never prove a negative.

If I believe that a human is so limited, can only perceive a small bit of Reality, I see no way to prove that. So far.

Opinions can be interesting. Anecdotal experiences too.

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Saturday, March 17, 2012 2:19 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

My thinking that I have an ego is also just an opinion. I have no idea what else to call it though.

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Saturday, March 17, 2012 3:36 PM

CHRISISALL

I was here before I was here. That's about all I know. Anything else is me conjuring on the workings of the infinite.

The Mal-like Chrisisall

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Saturday, March 17, 2012 3:53 PM

BYTEMITE

I'm not a huge fan of metaphysics and the science that attempts to support it. I have reason to think the results may be influenced by what the scientists want to find.

There could be volatiles that break down on death and are released, as well as CO2 released from the lungs.

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Monday, March 19, 2012 11:43 AM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

My answer is absolutely yes, but I don't think its something we can prove or disprove scientifically.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, March 19, 2012 12:03 PM

JOHNNYREB

I like to beleive that we don't have souls; We ARE souls. We have bodies. This one is mean. This one is nice. This one is jolly. This one is patient. We are all just gleams of light dealing with each others emotions. (Metaphorically.)

Take my love. Take my land...

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Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:57 PM

WISHIMAY

Here's an interesting article for us waxing philosophicalists...

http://news.yahoo.com/free-illusion-scientists-philosophers-forced-dif
fer-210401902.html

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Tuesday, April 3, 2012 10:40 AM

OONJERAH

Moment of Death from National Geographic, documentary.

About 2/3 of this is about When are you dead?,
and How do the medical people know if you are?
If you appear to be dead, how do they know if you can be resusitated?

I gather that being Brain Dead is the key, but I didn't fully understand
that part of it. If you are brain dead, you can't be resusitated; them
people never come back? OTOH, if your heart & lungs stop, so they put
you on life support, then find out that your brain is still active, that's a
coma. There's a fair chance of recovery.

The last part of it said something about Consciousness, but kinda lost it.

Many people have had similar near-death experiences, went to heaven, saw
their kin. Then came back. But the same experience can be induced by
high G-force in a centrifuge resulting in loss of consciousness. That is,
what many think was a glimpse of Heaven is just a standard image produced
by an oxygen-starved brain.

Finally, it reports on a single out-of-body experience. A man who is
unconscious and his eyes covered is able to see what's going on in the
room; and when he regains consciousness, to accurately report it.

IMO, the film did a fair job on the medical part. They shoulda stuck with
that and not tried for a short report on altered states of consciousness.

. . . . .The worst and most frequent consequence of paranoia is that it's self-fulfilling.

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Tuesday, April 3, 2012 11:00 AM

OONJERAH

Quote JohnnyReb: "I like to beleive that we don't have souls; We ARE souls.
We have bodies. This one is mean. This one is nice. This one is jolly. This
one is patient. We are all just gleams of light dealing with each others emotions."

I mostly agree with that.
When I was an infant, I was a soul focused in a body.
Then, over time, I developed an ego and a view of this reality. Then I spent most
of my time acting from ego, but wanting to be someone ... different. My soul was
there watching, but not interfering.
Part of the game is deciding whether to ride it all out in the ego or return to the soul.
Except maybe for those who are blessed: soul and ego are much the same.

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Tuesday, April 3, 2012 12:00 PM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
My answer is absolutely yes, but I don't think its something we can prove or disprove scientifically.

Do you think that because it is beyond our technological limits at this time or do you think the soul is not possible to identify, measure, etc.?

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Tuesday, April 3, 2012 3:14 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I think that science can do many many things, things we haven't even imagined yet, but I suspect that it can't measure a person's soul.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise. "A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, April 3, 2012 3:40 PM

WISHIMAY

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:

the same experience can be induced by
high G-force in a centrifuge resulting in loss of consciousness. That is,
what many think was a glimpse of Heaven is just a standard image produced
by an oxygen-starved brain.

That's weird... I said that to hubby years ago that when I'm on a Tilt-a-whirl that that's what I'd imagine death to be like, legs and arms feel heavy, then tingley, then you can't move them, you get dizzy, a little nauseous then it's black... and I hear that there is still electrical activity in decapitated rat brains for almost a minute and a half after.... just enough time to thouroughly scare you shitless, and then you die, yay... I'm not sure I really wanted to know that, but...

I love the tilt a whirl, though...it's mah favorite ride

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Tuesday, April 3, 2012 5:38 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

I love it too, you've got to tilt just right in order to whirl at maximum speed and frequency.

I assume you're my pal until you let me know otherwise. "A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Tuesday, April 3, 2012 7:22 PM

OONJERAH

Altered states, lemme see:

waking conscious .... check
dreaming sleeping ... check
out of body ............ check
grounded relaxed .... check

For just a quickie tour, I looked it up on Wikipedia.
Apparently, there are dozens of altered states* and several different
brain waves that have been studied and documented, both in the lab
and thru personal experience.
(*Emotional extremes and mood disorders were on the list.)

There is so much literature on it, I'll probably decide it's too
much for me to contemplate.

It's good to see that it is taken seriously.

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Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:00 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
I think that science can do many many things, things we haven't even imagined yet, but I suspect that it can't measure a person's soul.

I think given sufficient technology that science should be able to measure anything that exists. The only way I could see something being impossible to measure is if the universe was created by some sentient being who specifically made it impossible to measure the soul.

At the same time I do believe the universe was created by a sentient being (or a group of them) and that we have souls. I just don't think we have figured out how to measure them yet.

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