REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

"Evidens". So, where are we now?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Monday, October 23, 2017 15:44
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Monday, July 17, 2017 3:21 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
So, what are America's interests?- SIGNY

What truly kicked the Trump-Russia story into high gear was when the president went from dismissive tweets about the ongoing FBI investigation to firing the FBI director, having his administration lie about why he’d fired the FBI director, and then going on national television and admitting to NBC News’s Lester Holt that “when I decided to just do it I said to myself, I said, ‘You know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story.’”

Of all the many potential lines of inquiry into Trump’s conduct as president, Russia is the one we have an official investigation of, not because it’s the only topic that matters but because it’s the one topic that a handful of Republican Russia hawks in Congress care about enough to provide some check on Trump’s power. - SECOND
Hold that thought.

Quote:
But even if you don’t care about the specifics, the question it raises — can the president act as, at best, an accessory after the fact to crimes...
WHAT crimes? That's the point where GSTRING and THUGR get stuck ... can't even formulate what charges might be brought, but they're sure Trump is guilty!

Talking to a Russian is not "collusion". Even if you were to say that Jr's meeting indicates a willingness to collude, "willingness" to collude IS NOT A CRIME. Unless, of course, you fall into that group of people - like GSTRING and THUGR - who believe that "wrong thinking" is a crime.

Here's another thought: LYING ... even lying on TV ... is not a crime! Unless you're under oath, or have signed a document, or in some other specific circumstances, (libel, fraud) lying, by itself, is NOT A CRIME.

Real life example: I was certain that many people in the GWB administration lied their asses off, knowingly and deliberately, about Saddam's so-called WMD. Lied morning, noon, and night, to the American media, the American people, the UN, and our allies. They were deliberate lies that got somewhere between 100,000- 1 million civilians killed, thousands of US service and contracted security staff killed or disabled, destablized the entire mideast, and cost over a trillion dollars, and we're STILL paying for those lies!

But where's the crime? What do you charge those individuals with?


Quote:
Russia, in part through happenstance, happens to be where the rubber is hitting the road. But the whole truck is riding on those tires. - SECOND
"Russia" is a complete distraction. It is, by your admission, only an EXCUSE to get rid of a President that you (understandably) despise (like ... yanno, kind of like trying to get rid of Obama because he's a Kenyan Muslim socialist ... but there's nothing legal or even rational about your POV. You've been whipped into a lynch mob, and are willing to overturn legal and political protections in your frenzy to "get" Trump. It's nothing but a soft coup, and every time you roll back the protections on which our democracy and civil liberties rest, they will never return, absent a revolution.

I know that it seems slow and ineffective and counterproductive to mince along, when you feel that there are so many bad things that Trump has done (or might do, which BTW also not a crime) but that's the way our system is constructed: Innocent until proven guilty. I hope you're not willing to overturn THAT, in your eagerness to gain your partisan objectives.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Monday, July 17, 2017 3:57 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So, having been accused by GSTRING (of all people!) of "deflecting" from the more important stories of the Trump administration in favor of focusing on "Russia" ... ... this topic is going to go further down on my list of priorities.

You guys can rant and whip yourselves into an even more frenzied lynch mob, if that's possible, but I've come to the conclusion that nobody can have a one-sided rational conversation.

For the record, whenever GSTRING says about about me, or puts words in my mouth, he is lying and trolling. Example

Quote:
Siggy and Kiggy don't really believe Hillary was going to start WWIII. That's a convenient lie. There might be a slim chance that they believed had she won, Putin would have started WWIII. Otherwise, it's just another weak bogey man to cover their support for Trump.

Siggy believes Trump was the worst choice for the US and the best choice for Russia. That he will do serious damage to the US - payback or something. - GSTGRING

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=61760&p=3

He's become completely delusional about me.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 8:11 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

WHAT crimes? That's the point where GSTRING and THUGR get stuck ... can't even formulate what charges might be brought, but they're sure Trump is guilty!

Talking to a Russian is not "collusion". Even if you were to say that Jr's meeting indicates a willingness to collude, "willingness" to collude IS NOT A CRIME. Unless, of course, you fall into that group of people - like GSTRING and THUGR - who believe that "wrong thinking" is a crime.

Real life example: I was certain that many people in the GWB administration lied their asses off, knowingly and deliberately, about Saddam's so-called WMD. Lied morning, noon, and night, to the American media, the American people, the UN, and our allies. They were deliberate lies that got somewhere between 100,000- 1 million civilians killed, thousands of US service and contracted security staff killed or disabled, destablized the entire mideast, and cost over a trillion dollars, and we're STILL paying for those lies!

But where's the crime? What do you charge those individuals with?
It’s easy to forget amid the partisan tumult and talk of possible “collusion” between the Trump campaign and a foreign power, but this whole story started with a rather straightforward crime. Someone — later identified by American intelligence and law enforcement officials as the Russian government — hacked first the Democratic National Committee internal email and then the Gmail inbox of John Podesta, Hillary Clinton’s campaign chair. They then posted the entirety of the stolen emails online for the world to see.

That’s a crime.

One of the core functions of government is to attempt to catch and punish criminals in order to deter crimes. But Trump clearly has had no interest in catching, punishing, and deterring the perpetrators of this crime.

Trump’s response has ranged from gleeful embrace of the crime (“I love WikiLeaks”) to blaming Barack Obama, suggesting Russia is maybe innocent, comparing the CIA to Nazis, and — of course — dismissing the whole thing as “fake news.” He thinks hacks that helped him win should go un-investigated and FBI directors who defy his desire to block the investigation should be fired.

I finally get Signym's point about no "crime" was committed. There was no incompetence, no malfeasance, nothing evil or immoral or wrong or even unethical because there is no "crime" definition in the law books for what Trump did. Since Trump committed no "crime" there should be no "punishment". By "punishment" Signym means calling Trump a criminal. Sticks and stones will break Trump's bones but calling him criminal will never hurt him.

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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:23 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
.... It’s easy to forget amid the partisan tumult and talk of possible “collusion” between the Trump campaign and a foreign power, but this whole story started with a rather straightforward crime. Someone — later identified by American intelligence and law enforcement officials as the Russian government — hacked first the Democratic National Committee internal email and then the Gmail inbox of John Podesta, Hillary Clinton’s campaign chair. They then posted the entirety of the stolen emails online for the world to see.= SECOND
If this is such a slam-dunk "crime", then why hasn't it been prosecuted? And why hasn't the FBI been given access to the DNC server itself? (My guess is that even if given access now, because the server has been under DNC control for so long, there is the suspicion that the DNC itself might have altered the evidence since the hack.)

What our security agencies are relying on is the analysis by CrowdStrike. In essence, hearsay.

So,

1) Attributions are extremely difficult to prove, for technical reasons
2) But it is impossible to attribute anything to anybody without examining tghe hardware in question, and none of our alphabet security agencies have been able to examine the DNC server specifically. (Why is that, DNC? Evidence of other crimes on the server? Maybe you should ask Hillary how the bleach bit your server?)
3) Julian Assange himself said that the source of the files ... the actual person ... was not a Russian.

None of your "evidence" is going to court because it would NEVER stand up.


******

What's really difficult to remember that even before this, Hillary was found to have an unsecured server on which she commingled State Dept and "personal" emails, then had 33,000 "personal" emails Bleach Bitted while under subpoena to make them technically impossible to recover.

I'll repeat the technical explanation here just because it's so interesting:

****
The "head" of the hard drive, which reads and writes data, wobbles just a fraction due to temperature differences, vibrations etc, so instead of writing data in an extremely narrow track it tends to create a broader band of data. When you "delete file" you don't actually erase the data, you just delete the pointer to where the data can be found, but a bit-by-bit examination of the hard drive - extremely easy to accomplish as there are disk recovery software utilities for that - can still recover the information, albeit you have to unscramble it yourself.

In order to "erase" a file from ORDINARY disk recovery techniques, you have to actually "overwrite" the data with zeros (or ones).

Now, it's still possible to recover the data using forensic techniques by examining the "side bands" of the track to look for the data that was written a bit off to the side. It is an extremely weak signal and you need extra-fine control of the head, so this is something that only a forensic lab can do.

If you want to erase data so NOBODY can recover it, you "overwrite" the disk many multiple times ... dozens of times. That way, the inherent "wobble" in the head ensure that not only is the main track overwritten, but so is the faint record off to the side.

ANYBODY USING THAT TECHNIQUE (Bleach Bit is software that does that for you) intends to hide data, not only from ordinary disk recovery techniques but also from detailed forensic FBI-style examination.
***

Aside from the fact that Hillary was never charged with obstruction of justice (Why not, Lynch and Comey?) all of her potential accomplices were granted immunity, which is a significant deviation from normal investigative procedure. It's almost as if the FBI were granting pardons.

You keep scrambling looking for some crime in which it would be difficult to prosecute under ordinary circumstances ... and impossible to prosecute unless the FBI itself gets to examine the evidence... but you keep ignoring the big fat fly stuck gobsmack in the middle of your plate.

As I have said many times over, Hillary and Trump are ethical equivalents (and don't make me pull up my old quotes, because you know I will), with Trump getting slight edge because he has had less time in government to be corrupt.

But just to recap my point to your post: "Crime?" "Evidence"? Phfffft!




-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 11:57 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

As I have said many times over, Hillary and Trump are ethical equivalents (and don't make me pull up my old quotes, because you know I will), with Trump getting slight edge because he has had less time in government to be corrupt.
Firefly murderer Rupert Murdoch's most prestigious outlet, the Wall Street Journal, ran an eye-popping editorial in its conservative-leaning opinion pages on Tuesday.

Titled "The Trumps and the Truth," the editorial scolded the president's family for withholding information about Russia-related meetings and discussions.

It said the political realities of Washington "will destroy Mr. Trump, his family and their business reputation unless they change their strategy toward the Russia probe. They don't have much more time to do it."

The editorial also said that "denouncing leaks as 'fake news' won't wash as a counter-strategy beyond the President's base, as Mr. Trump's latest 36% approval rating shows."

It was the latest in a series of eyebrow-raising editorials. Last week Murdoch's New York tabloid, the New York Post, labeled Donald Trump Jr. an "idiot" and "criminally stupid."

Murdoch and Trump have had a complex but often mutually beneficial relationship for many years.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/07/18/media/rupert-murdoch-president-trump-e
ditorials/index.html

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Tuesday, July 18, 2017 12:22 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


But you have to wonder, SECOND .... well, you SHOULD wonder, anyway ... why is DC so hell-bent on destroying Trump?

It's a fact which has gone from being denied ("Trump's crazy" "There's no such thing as a deep state") to suddenly being accepted, without ever having been questioned or examined in the transition.

But that's propaganda for you: to make the obvious disappear.





-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Wednesday, July 19, 2017 8:56 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But you have to wonder, SECOND .... well, you SHOULD wonder, anyway ... why is DC so hell-bent on destroying Trump?

It's a fact which has gone from being denied ("Trump's crazy" "There's no such thing as a deep state") to suddenly being accepted, without ever having been questioned or examined in the transition.

But that's propaganda for you: to make the obvious disappear.
If you lived in Texas you would see this for what it is. The Texas Republicans hate all things connected to the Democratic party. It is payback time.

This week the Republican governor's priority in the special legislative session is to pass a law to prevent the spreading of "communism" and "collectivization" in city government -- the governor hates, Hates, HATES WITH CRAZY PASSION an ordinance about tree cutting in Houston, a city with a Democrat for mayor. The Republican mind is deeply disturbed by everything about Democrats.

The Democratic party is paying back the Republicans for decades of Republicans' crazy hatred. Trump's troubles are his fault, not the Democrats, who are simply and gleefully pointing out Trump is a jackass. He was before election and nothing about the office changed him for the better. Trump deserves the Democrats not cooperating with him in any way. The Republicans did the same to Obama. Trump stomps on all their priorities and the GOP is still accusing Hillary of murdering Vince Foster and raging about Hillary's email.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, July 19, 2017 3:25 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


SECOND, I guess my point was lost in translation.

The wonderment (to me) isn't that the establishment (however defined) is "after Trump", it's that the widely disseminated VIEW of this went from total denial ...
Not happening.
Trump is just tweeting crazy-tweets about "fake news" and being "bugged".
This is all alt-right conspiracy-talk

to, according the the WSJ: So, what is Trump going to do about being targeted?

This focused campaign against Trump went from being disparaged as an "alt-right conspiracy theory" in the MSM to suddenly(!) being an unquestioned reality. But how can that the MSM do a complete turnaround without being made to address their old narrative ... either to bury it ("We were wrong") or to modify it?

I can't tell what's more disturbing ... the fact that the MSM is so adroit at "framing" the issues, or the fact that people didn't even notice that the framing suddenly changed. It's like nobody ever looks back with any sort of insight and says to themselves ... Well, yesterday I was sure that Trump was just being an idiot, and today I assume that he's being targeted.

It's the same way that people can not be thinking about "Saddam's WMD" one day, and two months later that's ALL that they're thinking about. I mean, how stupid ARE people, when they don't even noticed that their own personal responses are being manipulated?

Doesn't anyone have a memory of what they were thinking last week, or last month, or last year, and wonder why they're suddenly focusing on something different?

There is an sailing analogy that comes to mind. It has to do with telling what direction you're going on, and whether or not you're still heading on course, or whether you're going in circles.

Back in the old days of sailing ships ... yanno, before GPS ... how did ships stay on-course with no landmarks in sight?

Well, there was the compass, good to a few degrees plus or minus. They also had the sextant to give them latitude. And of course the sun setting and rising gave them more-or-less east-west directionality, as well as the westerly wind. And IF they had a very accurate clock, they could use that (plus sunrise/ sunset time) to estimate their longitude.

But WHAT IF they were fogged in, for days or weeks at a time, as sometimes happened? What if they were in a zone of magnetic anomaly? What if NO accurate measurements could be taken? How did they know they weren't just sailing around in circles, as sometimes happened? Or might miss that tiny island in the ocean, where they needed to pick up water? Supplies were limited; it was a life-and-death question. So what did they do?

Well, they threw a VERY long line over the stern. If the rope stayed straight, they knew they were sailing in a straight line. If the rope curved, they knew they had changed direction. They could tell where they were going by measuring it against where they had been, at least for that length of rope.

See the analogy? People haven't even tossed that rope over the stern to test whether their focus today was the same as yesterday, and .... if it had changed ... to try to determine WHY it had changed. To look for clues in their media environment to see if IT had changed.

Its like everyone is depending on the GPS of the media to tell them what's important, what's real, what to look at. There seem to be no other frames of reference - no moral compass, no historic landmarks, no test against reality, and not even the memory of what they were thinking last week or last month to tell them what direction they're going in. The people who control the GPS signal control the people who depend on it.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Wednesday, July 19, 2017 9:32 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
SECOND, I guess my point was lost in translation.
. . . It's like everyone is depending on the GPS of the media to tell them what's important, what's real, what to look at. There seem to be no other frames of reference - no moral compass, no historic landmarks, no test against reality, and not even the memory of what they were thinking last week or last month to tell them what direction they're going in. The people who control the GPS signal control the people who depend on it.
Would have been quicker for you to do a Game of Thrones instead of a nautical reference:
"In the Citadel, we lead different lives for different reasons. We are this world's memory, Samwell Tarly. Without us, men would be little better than dogs. Don't remember any meal but the last, can't see forward to any but the next. And every time you leave the house and shut the door, they howl like you're gone forever."

www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/6nvj7i/spoilers_extended_could_the_ma
estersthe_citadel/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I like my analogy better. We're sailors in a mostly unknown sea, not dogs.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Thursday, July 20, 2017 11:18 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I like my analogy better. We're sailors in a mostly unknown sea, not dogs.
You have excessive faith that the average person has common sense. Perhaps if you had more real world experience with people under stress you would see that your nautical analogies about people solving their problem does not apply to average people. May I suggest you read "What not to do in a disaster"? People tend to freeze even when not in disasters. They can't think their way out, even if given months, years, decades to plan a sensible, reasonable escape from their difficulties. Instead, they hope for miracles: win the lottery or a heroic president comes to their rescue or God touches them or a long lost relative leaves them a fortune or Hollywood discovers their talents, etc. (I've seen every one of these examples of magical thinking by people in trouble. I've not yet seen a miracle, although religion does ease some of their pain.)
www.bbc.com/future/story/20170711-what-not-to-do-in-a-disaster

I liked Kevin Drum's analog of Trump is the Godfather engaged in a mob war:

Trump Is “Curious” About His Pardoning Power
by Kevin Drum
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/07/donald-trump-is-curious-about-h
is-pardoning-power/

From a Washington Post story today about the Trump-Russia investigation:

Trump has asked his advisers about his power to pardon aides, family members and even himself in connection with the probe, according to one of those people….But one adviser said the president has simply expressed a curiosity in understanding the reach of his pardoning authority, as well as the limits of Mueller’s investigation.

He’s just curious! I mean, who wouldn’t be? Then there’s this:

Trump has been fuming about the probe in recent weeks as he has been informed about the legal questions that he and his family could face. His primary frustration centers on why allegations that his campaign coordinated with Russia should spread into scrutinizing many years of Trump dealmaking. He has told aides he was especially disturbed after learning Mueller would be able to access several years of his tax returns.

Those tax returns must really be toxic. I wonder what’s in them that Trump is so hellbent on keeping secret? It must be something pretty spectacular. Here’s the New York Times:

President Trump’s lawyers and aides are scouring the professional and political backgrounds of investigators hired by the special counsel Robert S. Mueller III, looking for conflicts of interest they could use to discredit the investigation — or even build a case to fire Mr. Mueller or get some members of his team recused, according to three people with knowledge of the research effort.

The search for potential conflicts is wide-ranging. It includes scrutinizing donations to Democratic candidates, investigators’ past clients and Mr. Mueller’s relationship with James B. Comey, whose firing as F.B.I. director is part of the special counsel’s investigation.

Trump seems to be treating this whole thing like a mob war. And maybe he’s right to do so. It just makes you wonder what he knows that we don’t. And now you know why they call him "Don Trumpleone".

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Friday, July 21, 2017 12:24 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Can Trump Pardon Himself?
If the current president has proved anything, it’s that there’s a first time for everything.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/19/what-would-happen-if-trump-pardone
d-himself-mueller-russia-investigation/

No president has ever tried to pardon himself, let alone been prosecuted after trying to pardon himself, so no court has had a chance to rule on the validity of self-pardons. Nixon considered pardoning himself just before he resigned. His lawyer advised him that he had the power, but Nixon decided against it. President Bill Clinton rendered the issue moot by reaching a settlement with his special prosecutor the day before he left office (and pardoned 140 people other than himself).

No president in recent memory has been as likely to answer the establishment’s gasps (“You can’t do that!”) with defiance (“I just did!”). As such, if push comes to shove — if he ever fears being prosecuted and he is on his way out of office — it is easy to imagine President Trump giving self-pardoning a try. There is no precedent that says he cannot pardon himself and a decent legal argument that says he can.

There are two questions on the table. First, might Trump pardon himself? It is far too early to speculate about him facing criminal liability, but he certainly acts like someone who wouldn’t hesitate to deliver himself such a plum.

Second, if Trump did it, what would happen? This question is easier to answer. If he weren’t already on his way out of office, a self-pardon would bring nearer that day. Any prosecutor who was already pursuing him would not roll over and assume that the self-pardon was valid. Instead, the prosecutor would press forward and force the courts — and surely the Supreme Court, eventually — to decide the issue. The court could potentially rule either way. But one would hope it would rule in favor of justice and the rule of law and not in favor of unaccountable presidential plunder.

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Friday, July 21, 2017 2:01 AM

6STRINGJOKER


I have my doubts that he would do that. I would hope that if he wrote himself a get out of jail free card there would be riots by both the left and the right.

And you're right... it's WAY to early to even be thinking about that.

Shouldn't these brilliant minds be doing something productive with their time?

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Friday, July 21, 2017 8:08 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I have my doubts that he would do that. I would hope that if he wrote himself a get out of jail free card there would be riots by both the left and the right.

And you're right... it's WAY to early to even be thinking about that.

Shouldn't these brilliant minds be doing something productive with their time?
The deal is that every President is under tremendous scrutiny. Obama was covered day and night, but as soon as he left office, he could barely get any coverage. Once retired, he goes on a long, exotic vacation and there is close to nothing in the news. Everything a President does gets covered and most of the coverage is gossip. Why Republicans get upset is they can't remember that this is how it is done. Is it really unfair that every dumb thing a President does gets commented on?

Trump is talking about another dumb stunt, which will get him gossiped about:
Trump team seeks to control, block Mueller’s Russia investigation
www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-team-seeks-to-control-block-muel
ler%E2%80%99s-russia-investigation/ar-AAows5X?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

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Friday, July 21, 2017 8:16 AM

6STRINGJOKER


Quote:
Originally posted by second:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6stringJoker:
I have my doubts that he would do that. I would hope that if he wrote himself a get out of jail free card there would be riots by both the left and the right.

And you're right... it's WAY to early to even be thinking about that.

Shouldn't these brilliant minds be doing something productive with their time?
The deal is that every President is under tremendous scrutiny. Obama was covered day and night, but as soon as he left office, he could barely get any coverage. Once retired, he goes on a long, exotic vacation and there is close to nothing in the news. Everything a President does gets covered and most of the coverage is gossip. Why Republicans get upset is they can't remember that this is how it is done. Is it really unfair that every dumb thing a President does gets commented on?

Trump is talking about another dumb stunt, which will get him gossiped about:
Trump team seeks to control, block Mueller’s Russia investigation
www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-team-seeks-to-control-block-muel
ler%E2%80%99s-russia-investigation/ar-AAows5X?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp


Aside from Fox News and a few other online outlets, everything ever said about Obama in the press was good. Always. Every time. Not only was he a Democrat, but he was the first black president on top of it.

8 years committing the same war crimes I used to rally with the Democrats against GWB for and they didn't cover it at all.

Now the same shit is still happening and nobody at all is bitching about it because every day is filled with bullshit and speculation about something that may or may not have even happened.

I don't know who is really in power or what their end game is, but they sure know how to pull everybody's strings.

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Friday, July 21, 2017 8:17 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
People tend to freeze even when not in disasters. They can't think their way out, even if given months, years, decades to plan a sensible, reasonable escape from their difficulties. Instead, they hope for miracles: win the lottery or a heroic president comes to their rescue or God touches them or a long lost relative leaves them a fortune or Hollywood discovers their talents, etc.
For example, take a look at SECOND. Frozen like a victim in fear of the hypnotic Trump cobra, SECOND can't even post one reasonable post about where we are, and what to do about it - instead relying on magical repeated recitations of the anti-Trump litanies in order to, somehow, make it all better.

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Friday, July 21, 2017 8:22 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
For example, take a look at SECOND. Frozen like a victim in fear of the hypnotic Trump cobra, SECOND can't even post one reasonable post about where we are, and what to do about it - instead relying on magical repeated recitations of the anti-Trump litanies in order to, somehow, make it all better.


“Who attacks their entire Justice Department? It’s insane.”

www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-team-seeks-to-control-block-muel
ler%E2%80%99s-russia-investigation/ar-AAows5X?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

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Friday, July 21, 2017 8:37 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
People tend to freeze even when not in disasters. They can't think their way out, even if given months, years, decades to plan a sensible, reasonable escape from their difficulties. Instead, they hope for miracles: win the lottery or a heroic president comes to their rescue or God touches them or a long lost relative leaves them a fortune or Hollywood discovers their talents, etc.
It's true, people DO freeze and can't think their way out of ... anything. And they DO rely on non-productive voodoo instead.

For example, take a look at SECOND. Frozen like a victim in fear of the hypnotic Trump cobra, SECOND can't even post one reasonable post about where we are, and what to do about it - instead relying on magical repeated recitations of the anti-Trump litanies in order to, somehow, make it all better.

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Friday, July 21, 2017 9:38 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


1kiki, did you notice that you posted the same comment twice in an hour? Do you recall that last year you were playacting the role of the Hillary-hating lefty while Signym plays the righty? Did you get confused and accidentally speak Signym's lines in the script? A true lefty doesn't do what you do. Wake up Signym, the committed Trump supporter, to handle this job for you.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, July 21, 2017 12:24 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.



Quote:
People tend to freeze even when not in disasters. They can't think their way out, even if given months, years, decades to plan a sensible, reasonable escape from their difficulties. Instead, they hope for miracles: win the lottery or a heroic president comes to their rescue or God touches them or a long lost relative leaves them a fortune or Hollywood discovers their talents, etc.
It's true, people DO freeze and can't think their way out of ... anything. And they DO rely on non-productive voodoo instead.

For example, take a look at SECOND. Frozen like a victim in fear of the hypnotic Trump cobra, SECOND can't even post one reasonable post about where we are, and what to do about it - instead relying on magical repeated recitations of the anti-Trump litanies in order to, somehow, make it all better.

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Friday, July 21, 2017 12:59 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


1kiki, that's three times in a row you posted the same comment and yet you have not explained why you, a Hillary-hating lefty, has become a staunch supporter of Trump. You were supporting Bernie Sanders!

Have you forgotten? Or have you always been really Signym using an alternate name?

Bernie takes responibility for killing Trump's bill
www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/07/19/bernie_sanders_if_president
_trump_wants_to_blame_me_for_killing_obamacare_repeal_bill_i_accept_that_responsibility_completely.html

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Friday, July 21, 2017 1:16 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
People tend to freeze even when not in disasters. They can't think their way out, even if given months, years, decades to plan a sensible, reasonable escape from their difficulties. Instead, they hope for miracles: win the lottery or a heroic president comes to their rescue or God touches them or a long lost relative leaves them a fortune or Hollywood discovers their talents, etc. - SECOND
And some people believe in Magical Democrats to save them from Evil Rethuglicans. That's you, SECOND. Another victim, frozen in magical thinking.

TRUMP ENDED OBAMA'S SECRET CIA PROGRAM OF FUNDING AND ARMING JIHADISTS IN SYRIA. This is surely a positive step away from Obama's confused "secret" CIA-backed (deep state) programs of drone strikes, foreign government destruction, and using jihadists as proxy forces in the Mideast. It's a good thing - right?

TRUMP BACKED OUT OF THE TTP. Another good thing. Right?

TRUMP REVERSED THE FLOW OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. Another good thing, especially if combined with a (new) non-interventionist foreign policy and multi-national economic approach.

TRUMP BLOCKS TRAVELERS FROM NATIONS KNOWN TO EXPORT TERRORISTS, until better vetting procedures can be established. How can that be a BAD thing?


Dems are not the saintly political actors that you'd like to believe, SECOND. Most of them have their hands deeply into the pockets of transnational corporations, whom they mostly represent. Pacifying the people with crumbs ("handouts") while feasting the elite ... kinda slimy, don'tcha think? And Republicans aren't the lizard-men that you believe. Some of their proposals are very necessary. We need to re-industrialize our nation, stop antagonizing everyone in our neverending quest to dominate the whole world, and give people agency in their own lives again, as well as mitigate/ prepare for climate change.

Only the Libertarians have broken out of the DEM-GOP duality, and I only agree with THEM 50% of the times. But we need to get out of this Punch-and-Judy show.

By the way, I recall when someone else (it may have been FREM, but I don't recall exactly who) was posting the exact same thing to me. They even called it the Punch and Judy show. I remember feeling offended and horrified that anyone could imagine that democrats and republicans were so interchangeable that it didn't matter who was Punch and who was Judy. But I'll tell you, Bill and Obama and Hillary really opened my eyes.


-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Friday, July 21, 2017 1:18 PM

THGRRI


Quote:
Originally posted by second:
1kiki, that's three times in a row you posted the same comment and yet you have not explained why you, a Hillary-hating lefty, has become a staunch supporter of Trump. You were supporting Bernie Sanders!

Have you forgotten? Or have you always been really Signym using an alternate name?

Bernie takes responibility for killing Trump's bill
www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/07/19/bernie_sanders_if_president
_trump_wants_to_blame_me_for_killing_obamacare_repeal_bill_i_accept_that_responsibility_completely.html








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Friday, July 21, 2017 1:41 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Apparently, Rand Paul and I agree on two things, this being one:

Quote:
“Everyday I wake up and say, ‘It could have been Hillary'”

Kentucky Senator Rand Paul may have some issues with President Donald Trump, but at least it’s not President Hillary.

The former Republican presidential candidate said he’s grateful every morning we’re not under Hillary’s rule, which would likely have resulted in “war everywhere,” including against American businesses.

“I always compare. Every day, I wake up, and I say, ‘It could have been Hillary Clinton,’” Paul told Fox & Friends Thursday.

“We could be at war in the Middle East because Hillary Clinton wanted to go to war everywhere, and she would be at war with American business. It could be terrible, and I think Trump’s doing a much better job than we would have gotten.”


https://www.infowars.com/rand-paul-grateful-for-trump-everyday-i-wake-
up-and-say-it-could-have-been-hillary/

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Friday, July 21, 2017 7:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
So now all of a sudden Trump is controlling the Deep State?? I thought you said the opposite? They sure are handy to have around - they can be whatever you need them to be whenever you need it. - GSTRING
Uh, no, son. 100% wrong.

Apparently you haven't understood even a tiny fraction of my thoughts on the topic.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Friday, July 21, 2017 11:12 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
Originally posted by second:
blah blah blah ...
Quote:
People tend to freeze even when not in disasters. They can't think their way out, even if given months, years, decades to plan a sensible, reasonable escape from their difficulties. Instead, they hope for miracles: win the lottery or a heroic president comes to their rescue or God touches them or a long lost relative leaves them a fortune or Hollywood discovers their talents, etc.
It's true, people DO freeze and can't think their way out of ... anything. And they DO rely on non-productive voodoo instead.

For example, take a look at SECOND. Frozen like a victim in fear of the hypnotic Trump cobra, SECOND can't even post one reasonable post about where we are, and what to do about it - instead relying on magical repeated recitations of the anti-Trump litanies in order to, somehow, make it all better.


Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:38 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
US Launching Sunday Raids To Arrest Illegal Immigrant Gang Members

With Trump desperate for a distraction from the daily Russian collusion media onslaught, and perhaps under the advice of his brand new counsel, Reuters reports that U.S. immigration agents are set to launch nationwide raids next week to arrest teenagers who entered the country without guardians and are suspected gang members, as part of President Donald Trump's crackdown on illegal immigrants. The raids, targeting teenagers 16 and 17-years-old, will begin on Sunday and continue through Wednesday.
I'm sure liberals are wringing their hands already.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:58 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

I'm sure liberals are wringing their hands already.
The pattern is so familiar that it almost starts to feel rational. Nearly every day it’s gone like this: The president or someone in his administration does something previously unthinkable, then legal pundits take to Twitter and the airwaves to ponder whether it was legal or constitutional or criminally prosecutable.

Can the president truly continue to enrich himself and his family by leveraging his office to benefit from foreigners? Can the president really fire the FBI director and admit he was thinking about the Russia probe while doing it?

Today, we have a new set of questions to toss on the pile: Can the president really pardon himself and all his friends, family, neighbors, and pets, plus fire Robert Mueller, plus threaten his attorney general?

More often than not the answer is: “norms, not laws.”

While there may or may not be specific constitutional or statutory bulwarks that prohibit what the president does every day, each time we chase them down, the formal answer is either a lawyerly “it depends” or an even more lawyerly “it depends what the courts will say.”

The real answer to the myriad legal and constitutional questions Trump raises with each exhale is, of course, that the legalities don’t matter because he doesn’t care, and he either fires, berates, or isolates the lawyers around him who do care. This is asymmetrical warfare insofar as the people who continue to think in terms of the rule of law mistakenly believe that there might be legal solutions.

The Framers erected an edifice of law intended to constrain power, and the president believes that framework is made of spun sugar and cobwebs. Norms are for losers, and laws are for poor people. And now Trump has his dream team of mob lawyers and mad dogs hard at work proving that the only lawyer without a disabling conflict of interest is the one pledging fealty to him.

If Trump fires Mueller on a slender pretext of bias and conflicts of interest, or if he pardons himself and his supporters pre-emptively, it’s just not clear what the next lawsuit looks like or even whether the fixes—which are political and not legal in most instances—will manifest themselves.

There is an inspiring, entrenched public certainty that “the law” can fix everything.

And this is a problem because Americans (myself excluded) are prey to a form of magical thinking about law and the Constitution. The Framers believed the law would fix it, and that makes it easy to hope that the lawyers will fix it. The lawyers became the wizards, and the Constitution became a book of spells, and the best thing a citizen could hope to do is make a donation to a group of lawyers who could perform the right incantations and save democracy.

www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/07/lawyers
_and_the_constitution_alone_won_t_save_us_from_donald_trump.html

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Saturday, July 22, 2017 11:17 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
The real answer to the myriad legal and constitutional questions Trump raises with each exhale is, of course, that the legalities don’t matter because he doesn’t care, and he either fires, berates, or isolates the lawyers around him who do care. This is asymmetrical warfare insofar as the people who continue to think in terms of the rule of law mistakenly believe that there might be legal solutions.- SECOND
There you go, thinking with your hormones again.



-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Saturday, July 22, 2017 1:51 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
The real answer to the myriad legal and constitutional questions Trump raises with each exhale is, of course, that the legalities don’t matter because he doesn’t care, and he either fires, berates, or isolates the lawyers around him who do care. This is asymmetrical warfare insofar as the people who continue to think in terms of the rule of law mistakenly believe that there might be legal solutions.- SECOND
There you go, thinking with your hormones again.
Trump was obsessed with Hillary this morning. Not his hormones. More likely he was feeling inferior:

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
So many people are asking why isn't the A.G. or Special Council looking at the many Hillary Clinton or Comey crimes. 33,000 e-mails deleted?
6:44 AM - 22 Jul 2017
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/888726438265966592

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
...What about all of the Clinton ties to Russia, including Podesta Company, Uranium deal, Russian Reset, big dollar speeches etc.
6:47 AM - 22 Jul 2017
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/888727293346156546

Trump is preoccupied with Hillary because she ruined his victory: he still can’t stand the thought that she got several million more votes than he did. I suspect the same is true of James Comey. Sure, he wanted Comey to help him out with the Michael Flynn investigation, but Comey’s real sin was being a living, breathing, daily reminder that Trump won only because Comey helped him out with his last-minute letter about the email investigation. This gnawed endlessly at Trump, so Comey had to go.

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Saturday, July 22, 2017 3:19 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
Originally posted by SECOND RATE
Trump is preoccupied with Hillary because she ruined his victory: he still can’t stand the thought that she got several million more votes than he did.
If I were to get anything out of Trump's tweets, it's that he's being subjected to a double standard - very slight, fleeting, and peripheral contacts with Russia are under intense scrutiny, while Hillary's very substantial, extended, and lucrative contacts with Russia are ignored. Which is realistically a fair observation.

OTOH - YOU'RE preoccupied with the legally meaningless bit of popular-vote fluff. Meanwhile, there's a whole set of concerns that Hillary didn't address across the entire country, that caused people to not vote for her across the entire country.



It's an interesting map. I would have expected Chicago to be far more prominent. I would not have expected Mississippi and the Carolinas to be as prominent.

There's probably good party information to be gleaned from it. For example, California has a very capable and popular democratic governor. And the governor of Louisiana is also a democrat, as is the governor of N Carolina. OTOH the governor of Illinois, the state where Chicago hardly makes a dot on the map, is republican. It's a pretty good topography of how democrats lost state governorships, state legislative houses, the House, the Senate, and the Presidency.



Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Saturday, July 22, 2017 6:10 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

If I were to get anything out of Trump's tweets, it's that he's being subjected to a double standard - very slight, fleeting, and peripheral contacts with Russia are under intense scrutiny, while Hillary's very substantial, extended, and lucrative contacts with Russia are ignored. Which is realistically a fair observation.

OTOH - YOU'RE preoccupied with the legally meaningless bit of popular-vote fluff. Meanwhile, there's a whole set of concerns that Hillary didn't address across the entire country, that caused people to not vote for her across the entire country.
Whatever happened to the Trump who said “You have 40 days until the election. You have 40 days to make every dream you ever dreamed for your country come true.” He’d “fulfill every single wish” they have for his presidency.

Conservatives aren’t supposed to tell the public they’ll “make possible every dream you’ve ever dreamed.” On the contrary, at a root, almost crude level, conservatives believe in telling the masses, “Everyone can’t have everything.”

More to the point, the right’s core beliefs dictate that it’s ridiculous for the public to even look to the state and political leaders to fulfill their dreams.

And yet, here’s a Republican presidential candidate, who has no real understanding of what he’s talking about, effectively saying the opposite: Everyone can, in fact, have everything, and a President Trump will make it happen.

Did Trump forget?

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Saturday, July 22, 2017 11:18 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
People tend to freeze even when not in disasters. They can't think their way out, even if given months, years, decades to plan a sensible, reasonable escape from their difficulties. Instead, they hope for miracles: win the lottery or a heroic president comes to their rescue or God touches them or a long lost relative leaves them a fortune or Hollywood discovers their talents, etc.
It's true, people DO freeze and can't think their way out of ... anything. And they DO rely on non-productive voodoo instead.

For example, take a look at SECOND. Frozen like a victim in fear of the hypnotic Trump cobra, SECOND can't even post one reasonable post about where we are, and what to do about it - instead relying on magical repeated recitations of the anti-Trump litanies in order to, somehow, make it all better.

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:08 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


1kiki, unanimously Congress does not agree with you about Trump/Russia:

Congress to Pass Trump-Proof Russia Sanctions

The House and Senate have reached a deal on a bill that would impose new financial sanctions on Russia and allow Congress to review and veto any attempt by President Trump, or President Pence, to independently ease those sanctions in the future. The Senate, looking to punish the Kremlin for meddling in last year’s presidential election, passed a version of the bill by a nearly unanimous margin in June, but it has been stalled in the House for weeks due to procedural issues, pressure from industry groups, and a White House bent on weakening the proposed congressional-review power. On Saturday, however, negotiators from the House and Senate ironed out a deal that did not include the changes the Trump administration wanted.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/congress-reaches-deal-on-
trump-proof-russia-sanctions.html

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:20 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So?

Congress voted us into Iraq. Congress passed many 'free-trade' bills. Congress does a lot of backwards things. Just because Congress does something doesn't make it wise and necessary.

Aside from cringing - again - over something really stupid that Congress has done - again - why should I care?


Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:36 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
So?

Congress voted us into Iraq. Congress passed many 'free-trade' bills. Congress does a lot of backwards things. Just because Congress does something doesn't make it wise and necessary.

Aside from cringing - again - over something really stupid that Congress has done - again - why should I care?
The Evidence is sufficient for Congress to override Trump's power to set policy with Russia, even if insufficient to impeach Trump. And if I am not forgetting, you wanted Trump because he would ease tensions with Russia. Trump's great salesmanship has done the opposite. WWIII over Ukraine and Crimea, here we come!

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:43 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


On exactly the same kind of 'evidence' (ie repeated assertion without basis) that got us into Iraq.

I see Congress doesn't learn from past grievous mistakes.

Now, since I was completely against the war in Iraq because my bullshit alarm was going off non-stop, I've learned to trust my bullshit alarm.

And my bullshit alarm indicates this is bullshit.



Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 8:55 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
On exactly the same kind of 'evidence' (ie repeated assertion without basis) that got us into Iraq.

I see Congress doesn't learn from past grievous mistakes.

Now, since I was completely against the war in Iraq because my bullshit alarm was going off non-stop, I've learned to trust my bullshit alarm.

And my bullshit alarm indicates this is bullshit.
But the Iraq War actually happened; do you want a war with Russia, with Putin playing the role of Saddam Hussein, except this time Saddam really does have weapons of mass destruction? Congress can make that happen because all they need is the Secretary of Defense siding with Congress against Trump.

Repeating, you wanted Trump because he would ease tensions with Russia. Trump's great salesmanship has done the opposite. WWIII over Ukraine and Crimea, here we come!

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 9:16 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
Trump's great salesmanship has done the opposite.
Trump has nothing to do with it. The Deep State got us the Iraq War, it's going to get us the Russian Mother of All Wars. The same Deep State anus that Hitlery had her lips firmly pressed to. The same Deep State that illegally unmasked US names, the same Deep State that gave us 'golden showers', the same Deep State that lies CONSTANTLY about the supposed agreement of 'all' (which apparently means 4 out of 17) intelligence agencies about Russia, the same Deep State that funds and arms ISIS - as exposed by Benghazi, the same Deep State that's been the source of an endless stream of anonymous and unverified claims against Trump ... and on and on and on.

But whatever.

You seem to believe that just because the bullshit comes from a side you like better, it makes it smell better. You seem to think your partisanship makes everything right. So just keep on cheerleading the effort like you've been doing the whole time.

I hope you're happy with how it's all working out.



Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 9:40 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Quote:
Trump's great salesmanship has done the opposite.
Trump has nothing to do with it. . . . But whatever.

You seem to believe that just because the bullshit comes from a side you like better, it makes it smell better. You seem to think your partisanship makes everything right.

I hope you're happy with how it's all working out.
It is all Evidence and very predictable that things would work out this way because Trump is not truthful. He will turn 180 degrees in a heartbeat. He did that when he was in business and he has not changed.

Trump broke 80 promises in 100 days
https://thinkprogress.org/donald-trumps-100-days-of-broken-promises-a4
c116bbb2b4

Trump's Dozen Broken Promises

1. He said he wouldn’t bomb Syria. You bought it.

Then he bombed Syria.

2. He said he’d build a wall along the border with Mexico. You bought it.

Now his secretary of homeland security says, “It’s unlikely that we will build a wall.”

3. He said he’d clean up the Washington swamp. You bought it.

Then he brought into his administration more billionaires, CEOs and Wall Street moguls than in any administration in history, to make laws that will enrich their businesses.

4. He said he’d repeal Obamacare and replace it with something “wonderful.” You bought it.

Then he didn’t.

5. He said he’d use his business experience to whip the White House into shape. You bought it.

Then he created the most chaotic, dysfunctional, backstabbing White House in modern history, in which no one is in charge.

6. He said he’d release his tax returns, eventually. You bought it.

He hasn’t, and says he never will.

7. He said he’d divest himself from his financial empire, to avoid any conflicts of interest. You bought it.

He remains heavily involved in his businesses, makes money off of foreign dignitaries staying at his Washington hotel, gets China to give the Trump brand trademark and copyright rights, manipulates the stock market on a daily basis and has more conflicts of interest than can even be counted.

8. He said Hillary Clinton was in the pockets of Goldman Sachs and would do whatever they said. You bought it.

Then he put half a dozen Goldman Sachs executives in positions of power in his administration.

9. He said he’d surround himself with all the best and smartest people. You bought it.

Then he put Betsy DeVos, an opponent of public education, in charge of education; Jeff Sessions, an opponent of the Voting Rights Act, in charge of voting rights; Ben Carson, an opponent of the Fair Housing Act, in charge of fair housing; Scott Pruitt, a climate change denier, in charge of the Environmental Protection Agency; and Russian quisling Rex Tillerson as secretary of state.

10. He said he’d faithfully execute the law. You bought it.

Then he said his predecessor, Barack Obama, spied on him, without any evidence of Obama ever doing so, in order to divert attention from the FBI’s investigation into collusion between his campaign and Russian operatives to win the election.

11. He said he knew more about strategy and terrorism than the generals did. You bought it.

Then he green-lighted a disastrous raid in Yemen, even though his generals said it would be a terrible idea. This raid resulted in the deaths of a Navy SEAL, an 8-year-old American girl and numerous civilians. The actual target of the raid escaped, and no useful intel was gained

12. He called Obama “the vacationer-in-chief” and accused him of playing more rounds of golf than Tiger Woods. He promised to never be the kind of president who took cushy vacations on the taxpayer’s dime, not when there was so much important work to be done. You bought it.

He has by now spent more taxpayer money on vacations than Obama did in the first three years of his presidency. Not to mention all the money taxpayers are spending protecting his family, including his two sons who travel all over the world on Trump business.
www.salon.com/2017/04/12/robert-reich-trump-voters-realize-the-hard-wa
y-that-the-president-cant-follow-through_partner/

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 9:44 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Quote:
People tend to freeze even when not in disasters. They can't think their way out, even if given months, years, decades to plan a sensible, reasonable escape from their difficulties. Instead, they hope for miracles: win the lottery or a heroic president comes to their rescue or God touches them or a long lost relative leaves them a fortune or Hollywood discovers their talents, etc.
It's true, people DO freeze and can't think their way out of ... anything. And they DO rely on non-productive voodoo instead.

For example, take a look at SECOND. Frozen like a victim in fear of the hypnotic Trump cobra, SECOND can't even post one reasonable post about where we are, and what to do about it - instead relying on magical repeated recitations of the anti-Trump litanies in order to, somehow, make it all better.

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 9:55 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I'm reposting this from a different thread because I think it's instructive regarding how people are stampeded.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Jo, I'm going to tell you a story which I hope you'll take the time to read. It's a real-life story (mine) with strange parallels to today.

A long time ago, on a website far away ...

This was a website dedicated mostly to neurological disorders, and there was a forum for parents of neuroatypical children. Many of the participants were midwestern stay-at-home moms; but wherever we were from this was where we came to share information and heartache. 9-11 affected everyone; discussion about it derailed most forums, so the webmaster decided to corral the discussions by creating a real-world events discussion forum, much like Haken did here.

9-11, in my view, was no big surprise. It didn't take a genius to draw a straight line between the Kenyan embassy bombing or the attack on the Cole and the USA. There was nothing between us and "them" except a big empty ocean, and any dedicated terrorist would find their way across sooner or later. It was just a matter of time, and I spent the roughly three years after the Embassy bombing waiting for the other shoe to drop. Hubby and I would think about how one could do the most damage with the least effort; and in the end, when 9-11 happened, I was actually somewhat relieved that "the worst" didn't happen because it could have been so much worse. I won't say how, but we could have been talking millions of dead, not thousands.

In some ways, I didn't understand most people's terror and surprise. I was telling people to get over their shock and terror because we needed to DEAL with the foreign policy that caused this, and deal with the threat of terrorism at home. Needless to say, people hated me, and I was accused of being .... wait for it ... a terrorist sympathizer.

Then, when GWB started cranking up the war propaganda machine to bomb Afghanistan back into the stone age, I was heartsick. There he was, making innocent people suffer by bombing them for a cause that they didn't even choose. I could imagine Afghanistan being torn apart- again - and us being involved in an endless guerrilla war, another Vietnam, just in a different place. So I started making predictions ... we're planning to invade. We're going to start by bombing, followed by our tanks and troops. Each prediction was followed by a chorus of "No we aren't" which was followed by the event.

As you may recall, at that point, there had been SOME evidence that Osama bin Laden had been experimenting with chemical weapons. I thought that Osama's plan was ... well, if the mountain won't come to Mohammed, Mohammed must go to the mountain. I thought that Osama had lured those distant faraway American troops into a trap, that in some cold mountain pass, where troops would be all bunched up, hell would be unleashed on them.

So I predicted something like "Right about now I'd be worried about chemical or biological weapons".

Well, as luck would have it, the anthrax letters were mailed about a week or so later. OMG, did some on the board go into a tizzy! Since they were already convinced that I was at least a terrorist sympathizer, and they knew I knew something about science ... well, hell, I might have been a terrorist myself! Maybe even someone who sent those anthrax letters! So they urged the webmaster to give my particulars to the FBI, and few weeks after that, when the FBI was swarming around the middleastern community in Orange County, they detailed a few of their (probably junior staff) to follow me.

Now, I was completely innocent of anything, and all I had been saying was.... this isn't going to work, we have to stop invading so many nations and making so many enemies; we need to be an awful lot smarter about our foreign policy and internal security.

At the time, dear daughter was slipping into dementia from uncontrolled seizures; she was depending on ME as an anchor to reality. If I had been arrested and detained, even for a few weeks, I can't imagine what might have happened to her.

To continue the story, by the time Congress passed the so-called "Patriot" Act, the destruction of Afghanistan was well underway and GWB was gearing up for ANOTHER invasion, I was livid. Even though I TOLD people that they were being driven by hysteria and scare-mongering, that everything they read in the newspaper was bullshit ... about Sarin, about yellowcake, about aluminum tubes, anthrax, nuclear bombs and all of the rest of it was all LIES, nobody would listen because they were already CONVINCED I didn't have our interests at heart. I was a "terrorist sympathizer" you see, because I was CRITICIZING the WH, the media, and the war drumbeat.

I watched as nearly an entire nation (less approx 30%, who had more common sense) was driven temporarily insane by a torrent of bullshit, brought to you by (nearly) every high-ranking foreign-policy or military person in the WH, from Condoleezza Rice to Colin Powell to Donald Rumsfeld to the President himself, dutifully and (mostly unquestioningly) repeated in the media ... particularly Judith Miller of the NYT.

Now, some of these scaremongering items I KNEW to be false ... the supposed yellowcake contract was replete with obvious forgeries, the "aluminum tubes" didn't meet the specs for nuclear centrifuges (They would have been pulled part under those high-speed centrifugal forces), the supposed connection of Saddam to 9-11, the grainy photos of ... nothing really ... some of the most elaborate confabulations tied together with the thinnest strings of "maybes" and "possiblies". But the reason why I knew it was ALL bullshit was the rapidly-shifting narrative, the increasing emotional immediacy ("west, east, north, south somewhat of Baghdad", video clips of nuclear explosions "because you don't want the smoking gun to be this") the unwillingness to wait for Hans Blix to collect definitive evidence ...


---------

Does any of that sound familiar?

Just OOC, JO, what did you think about our invasion of Afghanistan? Of Iraq? How did you feel about our destruction of Libya?

If at any point in our rampage through the Middle East, did you start out agreeing and then possibly change your mind? And if you did, why did you start out with one idea and wind up with another? If you've learned anything from experience and history, what did you learn?

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 10:00 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I'm reposting this from a different thread because I think it's instructive regarding how people are stampeded.
It is very instructive that you take Trump's word as Truth, despite the evidence that he is dishonest. "Believe me when I say I had nothing to do with Russia. Believe me!" -- Donald J Trump.

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 11:07 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
I'm reposting this from a different thread because I think it's instructive regarding how people are stampeded. - KIKI

It is very instructive that you take Trump's word as Truth- SECOND
It is very instructive that you lie about KIKI, again. What are you - GSTRING's sock puppet? Why do you have to be so offensive? (I'm just returning the favor. Next time, don't be a jerk and you won't get an insult as the first part of the reply. Capisce?)

Quote:
"Believe me when I say I had nothing to do with Russia. Believe me!" -- Donald J Trump.- SECOND

And this is a perfect example of how you've allowed YOUR thoughts to become "kettled" by the media.

The threshold for being concerned about Trump isn't whether or not he had any "anything" to do with Russia. OF COURSE he had "something" to do with Russia! He was going to change our Russian foreign policy, remember? The question is whether he had anything ILLEGAL to do with "Russia". Or - illegal or not - whether he had anything to do with "Russia" that's counter to American interests.

Now, as far as I can tell, Trump is doing a pretty good job of fulfilling some of his campaign promises - despite interference by the deep state and by DNC-DC partisan hacks who would take this country over a cliff for political gain, in the arena where the President has some actual authority - in the arena of foreign policy.

He opted out of the TPP. Good thing- right?
He is enforcing border security. Good thing- right?
He is pressing China to do something about N Korea.- Good thing, right?
He ended the CIA-based program of financing terrorists in the Mideast. EXCELLENT thing- right?
He is trying to re-establish normal communications with Russia so we don't wind up in an outright shooting/ possibly nuclear war with them. GREAT thing, right?

So far, I don't see Trump violating our foreign policy interests in favor of Russia. EVERYTHING that he's done, foreign policy-wise, is for America's benefit.

Trump isn't paranoid about Russia, like you are, and he shouldn't be. There are many things about Trump I disagree with, and some things about Trump personally that I worry about, but this isn't one of them. He's doing what he said he would do. It's not some deep, dark, nefarious secret, sprung on people after the election. It was a campaign promise.

So if you're going to start gibbering in fear or outrage about Trump doing "something" with Russia, you might want to take a deep calming breath, and hope that he does indeed do "something" with Russia, because refusing to do ANYTHING with Russia is incredibly stupid and dangerous.

As far as whether Trump or his campaign staff did anything "illegal" ... well, that's being investigated. So far, Jr's meeting with some Russians seems to have not involved any criminal activity (i.e. "collusion"). Contacts seem to have been - so far- equally innocuous. (With the exception of Flynn, and my concern about him revolves around Turkey, not Russia.) Contacts? Yes. Crime? Not so far.

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Sunday, July 23, 2017 11:50 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
I'm reposting this from a different thread because I think it's instructive regarding how people are stampeded. - KIKI

It is very instructive that you take Trump's word as Truth- SECOND
It is very instructive that you lie about KIKI, again. What are you - GSTRING's sock puppet? Why do you have to be so offensive? (I'm just returning the favor. Next time, don't be a jerk and you won't get an insult as the first part of the reply. Capisce?)

Quote:
"Believe me when I say I had nothing to do with Russia. Believe me!" -- Donald J Trump.- SECOND

And this is a perfect example of how you've allowed YOUR thoughts to become "kettled" by the media.
It makes more sense that Signym, who posed as a Republican Trump supporter, supports Trump than 1kiki, who posed last year as a Bernie supporter, this morning on this thread supporting Trump. But I don't believe either one of you are who you are presenting yourselves as. There is the stink of insincerity from both Signym and 1kiki. But then again I never believed Trump was sincere, especially when he would say "Believe Me!" He has too much history of dishonesty and insincerity. He is not solid, not real. He is fake. Because of that, he is a really good salesman, but it doesn't make him a good CEO.

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 12:28 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Say what you will about Trump’s hiring of financier Anthony Scaramucci as White House communications director, but it’s a damn good troll.

The appointment — which caused press secretary Sean Spicer to resign and sparked vehement opposition from Chief of Staff Reince Priebus and chief strategist Steve Bannon — came, according to Politico, after Trump grew “enamored with Scaramucci since he managed to get a retraction from CNN on a story published in late June about his alleged Russia connections.”

In other words, Trump made a big appointment that alienated many top members of his administration for the grand purpose of … telling CNN to suck it.

It’s a strange way to do business, but aggressively sticking it to perceived political enemies has become a key part of Trump’s PR strategy as president.

It is also Evidence that Trump is losing his mind over Russia.

www.politico.com/story/2017/07/21/sean-spicer-resigns-white-house-pres
s-secretary-240802

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 1:31 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Even if he did everything you believe, Trump is not the problem. Trump was the only thing standing between US 'intelligence' covert ops and overt military ops, and the wishes of the Deep State. That's why they're running a soft coup against him.

The Deep State is the problem. And through its proxies, it's been heading for WWIII for years.

As for you, you're just a Deep State useful idiot and cheerleader of the soft coup. So I hope you enjoy cesium in your coffee. You've earned it.



Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 1:35 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
I'm reposting this from a different thread because I think it's instructive regarding how people are stampeded. - KIKI

It is very instructive that you take Trump's word as Truth- SECOND

It is very instructive that you lie about KIKI, again. What are you - GSTRING's sock puppet? Why do you have to be so offensive? (I'm just returning the favor. Next time, don't be a jerk and you won't get an insult as the first part of the reply. Capisce?)- SIGNY

It makes more sense that Signym, who posed as a Republican Trump supporter, supports Trump [more??] than 1kiki, who posed last year as a Bernie supporter, this morning on this thread supporting Trump. But I don't believe either one of you are who you are presenting yourselves as. There is the stink of insincerity from both Signym and 1kiki. - SECOND
There is more than an aroma of asshole coming from SECOND. I've been very open about what I do, regionally where I live, my family situation, and my politics, and I have a 15-year-long history here for you to peruse, if you REALLY want to know what I think about things instead of lying about my identity. But of course, you would never look for FACTS, because you would be proven to be a big fat liar about me, as you are about most things.

It is very instructive that you lie about me, again. What are you - GSTRING's sock puppet? Why do you have to be so offensive? (I'm just returning the favor. Next time, don't be a jerk and you won't get an insult as the first part of the reply. Capisce?)

-----------

"Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor"- William Blake
THUGR, JONESING FOR WWIII
All those guns 1kiki, are pointed towards your beloved Russia. All those cyber capabilities, pointed right at Russia. Thanks Putin, and get ready to duck.
I'll accept your apology any time, THUGR. But I know you're not man enough to give me one


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Sunday, July 23, 2017 1:40 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


SLOPPY SECONDS is - yep - a troll.


Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

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Sunday, July 23, 2017 2:30 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two


Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

There is more than an aroma of asshole coming from SECOND. I've been very open about what I do, regionally where I live, my family situation, and my politics, and I have a 15-year-long history here for you to peruse, if you REALLY want to know what I think about things instead of lying about my identity. But of course, you would never look for FACTS, because you would be proven to be a big fat liar about me, as you are about most things.
All the real Trump supporters I am familiar with have perfectly understandable reasons for supporting him. Not nice reasons, but I believe the reasons they give are their real reasons: Hillary killed Vince Foster, Hillary killed those Americans at Benghazi, Democrats give away my tax money to the undeserving, Mexicans are sneaking across the border to murder me, etc. None of the real Trump supporters have ever said that the reason they support Trump is because Hillary would get the USA into a destructive war with Russia. I don't believe Signym and 1kiki have given their real reasons for supporting Trump. You can give as many reasons as you please, but you long ago squandered your believability, as has Trump.

When Trump opens his mouth, he is misleading you. His latest gambit is to claim he was NOT thinking of pardoning everyone connected to Russia, including himself. Never has, never will. I am not surprised that jackass thinks he can sell that U-turn or a flip-flop as having always been the Truth because he knows how to sell.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-lawyer-open-question-president-pa
rdon/story?id=48791366
www.thedailybeast.com/scaramucci-contradicts-trump-team-on-russia-sanc
tions-pardons

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