President Obama Calls News Conference at 10:30 on a Sunday Night by Kwicko

Wow. First guess was the winner, it seems.

Osama bin Laden's body has been found and positively identified.

I'm sure Trump is very proud he forced Obama to do this... ;)

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 4:53 PM

CUDA77

Like woman, I am a mystery.

He's not dead until we see his long form death certificate.

Socialist and unashamed about it.

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 5:06 PM

BYTEMITE

Question I wanna know, if it's going to change our policy over there, how, and if Al Qaeda is going to make good on their threats I've heard about.

I have a foreboding feeling that even though this is a win for us, this is the tip of an iceberg.

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 5:15 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

OOps. sorry double thread.

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 5:18 PM

WISHIMAY

Didn't they say about six months ago they thought he was most likely already dead...or did I hallucinate that? Is he "mostly dead" or "all-the-way dead" this time?

Wish I could believe a damn thing they say anymore... Wonder if it'll take 'em nine years to get Gaddhafi?

Also, Fox news has it spelled "Usama"

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 5:19 PM

I hope he speaks before I have to give up and go to sleep. Early work tomorrow morning.

I was also suspecting it had to do with Osama Bin Laden before the news revealed this.

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 5:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cuda77:
He's not dead until we see his long form death certificate.

You win - that's the best line of the day!

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 5:25 PM

CUDA77

Like woman, I am a mystery.

Why I'm not celebrating this like so many others:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouCanNotKillAnIdea

Socialist and unashamed about it.

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 5:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Didn't they say about six months ago they thought he was most likely already dead...or did I hallucinate that? Is he "mostly dead" or "all-the-way dead" this time?

Wish I could believe a damn thing they say anymore... Wonder if it'll take 'em nine years to get Gaddhafi?

Also, Fox news has it spelled "Usama"

Forum ate my response, so here goes again.

Just be glad they didn't spell it "Obama" this time! ;)

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 5:32 PM

Just eight years to the day from when Bush claimed "Mission Accomplished!"

Just couldn't resist:

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 5:42 PM

WISHIMAY

What's sad is...I'll take it...
This country could use a victory of sorts...
Won't be breaking out the bubbly, but I'll take it.

Woulda been nice if Obama didn't take the opportunity to stroke us with the patronizing "see, Americans can do anything" routine.

Now everybody go back to work, we still have to pay for this thing...

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 5:56 PM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Just eight years to the day from when Bush claimed "Mission Accomplished!"

Just couldn't resist:

I hope this is true and have respect that you put your neck out like this...."DNA tests prove...." freaks me out. I'm just saying.

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 6:06 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I am waiting for Pirate to say something about body doubles or clones or something.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 6:39 PM

More zingers:

Obama to Osama: "Slam dunk, bitch!"

"Yes we can!"

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 6:40 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

OBL DOA since December 2001...SUCKERS!!!
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=48402

Idiocracy: Is there ANYTHING about Obama that's not fake?
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=48347

Quote:
"Shit's gettin way too complicated for me. There are white folks, and then there are ignorant mutherfuckers like you! You can put lipstick on a pig. Sorry ass mutherfucker's got nuttin on me. I inhaled frequently - that was the point. Pot helped, and booze. A little blow when you could afford it. Junkie, pothead. That's where I'd been headed. You ain't my bitch nigger, git your own damn fries!"
-Barack Hussein Obama Soetoro, Dreams From My Father
http://www.archive.org/details/ObamaInauguralMashup/

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 6:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
What's sad is...I'll take it...
This country could use a victory of sorts...
Won't be breaking out the bubbly, but I'll take it.

Woulda been nice if Obama didn't take the opportunity to stroke us with the patronizing "see, Americans can do anything" routine.

Now everybody go back to work, we still have to pay for this thing...

No kidding. It's not enough, not nearly. But... it's something. And for now, it'll do.

Hope it turns out to be true.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 6:58 PM

For PN (and The Donald):

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 7:00 PM

LILI

Doing it backwards. Walking up the downslide.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

Win.

Any bets on whether this will raise approval ratings? Will it at least shut Fox News up for awhile? If it doesn't and they say this is anything but a win, will their followers finally call them out for being morons?

Facts are stubborn things.

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 7:24 PM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

For PN (and The Donald):

ROFLMAO.....wow.

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 7:27 PM

Our nation has killed a man, at least one, in an assassination. I don't see cause for celebration. We illegally invaded a country, and then carried out extrajudicial assassinations.

OBL, I believe, has been dead for some years. That's what inside sources told me some time ago. That's why he's been so quiet. Zawahiri took over his operations, a while ago. It will be interesting to see if there's a convincing video dating this.

Of course, I don't think that OBL was connected to 9.11 in any way, and no US agency ever added him to their long list of suspects for the crime. Everyone here knows all of these things, and yet people seem to be driven by emotional cues rather than logic.

This killing provides Obama with a much needed justification for his invasion of Pakistan, at a time when he is not just unpopular, but being roundly criticized by all but his fawning sycophantic followers for starting what appears to be a world war.

I'm skeptical of the claim, and more skeptical of its meaning. When Osama was named by the president last as the perp, while never actually being suspected or added to a suspect list, it seemed very convenient, since he was a man that he had ready access to. I don't see why this has changed, except that OBL died at some point in the meantime.

I'm tentatively going with John on this one. I think it's a stunt. Perhaps it was a stunt in the wings for a while. It reminds me of St. Bartholomew discovering the Holy Lance of Antioch. Contrived and convenient and meaningless, and rallying the troops to slaughter.

At any rate, a junior Bin Laden, a woman and two other men were killed in the attack, and perhaps Bin Laden, whose connection to anything remains unclear. When I came her 5 years ago I was pretty sure that he was a terrorist mastermind. Now I'm not convinced that he was even alive at the time.

The only good I can see coming from this is if it is used as an excuse to get our fool asses out of the middle east.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 7:48 PM

KANEMAN

DT, you sound like PN. The crowd at the white house is huge for a late night sunday....kinda hilarious actually, considering those little college bastards have finals tomorrow....

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 8:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
DT, you sound like PN. The crowd at the white house is huge for a late night sunday....kinda hilarious actually, considering those little college bastards have finals tomorrow....

I'll take that as a compliment. At least someone here is applying logic. No one has yet even attempted to prove a connection between Bin Laden, a man who hasn't address anyone in years, and attacks against the US. He's not even a suspect in the Cole bombing, which was most likely a refueling accident.

It's a nice little boost to Obama at a moment when he was about to be impeached and needs to be re-elected, and the defection of Egypt and problems in Syria, but people are sheep, and they will buy this one, even if it didn't happen, and despite its lack of significance.

I know that we have been faking Osama tapes for a while. At some point, he started "saying" what would help the US govt. for him to say, rather than things consistent with what he has written in the past. Since we only have the US govt. word that he said them, it's sort of obvious it didn't happen. Inside sources have been claiming he died in 2001. It will be interesting to see if there's some proof that will have any merit. Obviously, it would be a lot easier to believe if he were alive, but we have to not forget that he's a close ally of the US govt., and that he always has been, and remains suspected of nothing, or that at least 4 civilians now were killed in the attack.

I accept this all as collateral damage if Obama responds to this with "We can all go home now." If he uses it as a rallying cry for more war, people are stunningly stupid, so he will be able to escalate us into a full scale world war.

At any rate, I celebrate no one's death.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Sunday, May 1, 2011 10:28 PM

FREMDFIRMA

*snort*

He's BEEN dead since the second week of December 2001 - fer cryin out loud most of the world ran his damn obituary, but we were too busy shrieking in rage on cue for an establishment which pushed all the right little buttons.

And if you expect this to get us out of Afghanistan so easy, I got a bridge to sell you.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, May 2, 2011 12:12 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Took longer than we'd have liked, but the US got the job done.

Still, would love to see a photo of the dead dirt bag... just because. Woke up to hear he's been killed, and already buried at sea.

How convenient.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Monday, May 2, 2011 12:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

*snort*

He's BEEN dead since the second week of December 2001 - fer cryin out loud most of the world ran his damn obituary, but we were too busy shrieking in rage on cue for an establishment which pushed all the right little buttons.

And if you expect this to get us out of Afghanistan so easy, I got a bridge to sell you.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

Frem,

Yeah, that's what I thought. I just googled. Even FOX ran it. In 2001. Bush was president, and it's still on their website.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html

I guess I didn't need inside sources to tell me that. In my defense, I avoid the media like the, well, it is the plague, but still. If you just hear its out echoes, Bin Laden was a pretty major topic, and yet, he had stopped talking, except to make cryptic statements that seemed to serve us.

So I headed over to what really happened, and here's the record:

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/osama_dead.php

It's curious that WRH says the DDOS *preceded* the notification of his death.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/bin-laden-body-buried-sea

Rap,

Is that a tinge of doubt I hear? There's hope after all.

ETA: I'm getting the feeling this is more of a Waco than an action movie moment
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13257330

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Monday, May 2, 2011 6:39 AM

OPPYH

Navy Seals....When you absolutely, positively have to kill every last Motherfucker in the room, accept no substitute.

----------------------------------------------------------------

70's TV FOREVER

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Monday, May 2, 2011 6:59 AM

curious comment.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Monday, May 2, 2011 12:03 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
DT, you sound like PN. The crowd at the white house is huge for a late night sunday....kinda hilarious actually, considering those little college bastards have finals tomorrow....

I'll take that as a compliment. At least someone here is applying logic. No one has yet even attempted to prove a connection between Bin Laden, a man who hasn't address anyone in years, and attacks against the US. He's not even a suspect in the Cole bombing, which was most likely a refueling accident.

It's a nice little boost to Obama at a moment when he was about to be impeached and needs to be re-elected, and the defection of Egypt and problems in Syria, but people are sheep, and they will buy this one, even if it didn't happen, and despite its lack of significance.

I know that we have been faking Osama tapes for a while. At some point, he started "saying" what would help the US govt. for him to say, rather than things consistent with what he has written in the past. Since we only have the US govt. word that he said them, it's sort of obvious it didn't happen. Inside sources have been claiming he died in 2001. It will be interesting to see if there's some proof that will have any merit. Obviously, it would be a lot easier to believe if he were alive, but we have to not forget that he's a close ally of the US govt., and that he always has been, and remains suspected of nothing, or that at least 4 civilians now were killed in the attack.

I accept this all as collateral damage if Obama responds to this with "We can all go home now." If he uses it as a rallying cry for more war, people are stunningly stupid, so he will be able to escalate us into a full scale world war.

At any rate, I celebrate no one's death.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

I disagree with a lot of what you say, DT, because I do actually believe that he has just been killed, I do agree that celebrating someones death is a little off. Even though I support the action.

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Monday, May 2, 2011 12:15 PM

Success in battle should be mourned, and victories celebrated with a funeral.

Read what Frem wrote, and try to prove that it isn't so.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Monday, May 2, 2011 12:45 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I know that we have been faking Osama tapes for a while.

Cites?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, May 2, 2011 1:02 PM

CHRISISALL

No celebration here. Either they killed him, or he's been dead. He chose his path. Suicide is never fun.

BUT, no tears either!

The laughing Chrisisall

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Monday, May 2, 2011 2:05 PM

Geezer

Search on bin laden's nose, for starters. Also, if you'd ever read anything he wrote, some of the stuff we said he said just doesn't make sense. Too busy to go digging.

If you're seriously interested in what happened, there are plenty of websites devoted to it, and John or Frem would be a better resource than me.

If this is just about shooting down my argument, its kinda in the category of "arguing that the world is round" for me. I don't really care if others are ignorant, you can sort of see from the posts on board that even if I'm right, convincing everyone would be bailing out the ocean. It's not really what I come here to do, I come to learn. If you want to learn, 911 truth, it's all over the place. Lots of it is bunk, but wading through it is like all of politics, you assume that it's 90% lies to begin with, and you learn to filter those our pretty quickly, and then it's just about filtering out the facts from the errors.

Chris

Other people died in the attack. I'm fairly indifferent towards Osama, I find him a little hypocritical, a touch discriminatory but much more of a bugbear than genuinely evil. By anyone's estimate's now Obama's death toll is radically higher than Osama's. You could say Obama had more power, and I'd say "maybe." It's not that clear. I've heard that Osama was fairly pleasant company, as is Obama. It's their policies which are flawed. As our president is fond of saying "It's complicated."

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Monday, May 2, 2011 2:33 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

The commentary I trust most is from Robert Fisk if you care to look him up and read him. Wrote one of the most brilliant books about the middle east conflicts. He's no stooge of western governments, but he's not a conspiracy theoriest nut either. He met Bin Laden on about three occasions and I regard him as one of the most intelligent of voices on these issues.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-was
-he-betrayed-of-course-pakistan-knew-bin-ladens-hiding-place-all-along-2278028.html

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Monday, May 2, 2011 3:07 PM

In case it hasn't been posted yet...

Osama finally lost his Hide & Seek Championship crown yesterday.

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Monday, May 2, 2011 3:15 PM

RIONAEIRE

Beir bua agus beannacht

When I first heard my reaction was "I just assumed he was already dead somewhere". But then I felt relief and a sense of closure that I hadn't even realized I was seeking. I mean, its not something I think about that often, but I felt closure nonetheless. It was a relief. My next question was "Does this mean we can be done?" But I know that it won't be that simple, still I think/hope that this will be the beginning of the end of us fighting in Afghanistan, I know things will spike a bit for a while but I'm hoping that it will draw to a close and our warriors can come home and not have to fight anymore.

I have to admit that it felt good seeing the comradery on the news footage of people banding together in solidity in New York and at the White House etc.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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Monday, May 2, 2011 4:20 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Geezer

Search on bin laden's nose, for starters.

Okay. And I come up with folk who've already come to a conclusion that fits their preconceptions (looks like mostly 9/11 Truthers) and only accept information from other folks who've come to the same conclusion. By that criteria, I could 'prove' Elvis is alive.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, May 2, 2011 4:58 PM

I saw Elvis in Thomasville GA last year

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Tuesday, May 3, 2011 3:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

Okay. And I come up with folk who've already come to a conclusion that fits their preconceptions (looks like mostly 9/11 Truthers) and only accept information from other folks who've come to the same conclusion. By that criteria, I could 'prove' Elvis is alive.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Geezer,

The trick is in how you read the information. I should post my whole "proof that lies are true" argument, but maybe a little later when I have the time.

The short of it is we need to reject information by part rather than by whole, and that we need to accept negatives as information.

Read this stuff the way you would read a speech by Obama, or a report by Michael Moore. You don't really sit there thinking "Oh, wow! He's going to stand up for small business!" nor do you think "Uh Oh! It's all the Republican's fault, I better vote democrat next time." In general, you reject their conclusions and cherrypick their data because that's what a thinking person does.

With conspiracy theory, you need to do the same thing, only more so. look for the threads of truth that the person has picked up, rather than standing back and marveling at the tapestry they've woven and say "pretty."

The first thing to filter out is the bias of the author. I never could have read Henry Ford if I didn't automatically filter out his anti-semitism. Ford has a lot of brilliant observations to make about the industrial world and capitalism. Doesn't mean I accept his conclusions, or Einsteins, or those of Pirate News.

Also, just use the google

I cut the search to 2001..2005
and got these (they won't answer anything, it's just random information about bin laden, the first things to come up for me, just take a glance)

http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2001/rfi110101.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/bin_laden_treated_us_hospital.html
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Fake_bin_Laden_audio_tape

Then I cut the search to 1.1.01-9.10.01
and got this
http://articles.cnn.com/2001-06-25/world/spain.extradition_1_extraditi
on-arrest-warrant-spain-s-national-court?_s=PM:WORLD
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/family.html

Remember that the US started its hunt for Bin Laden in 1998, when Clinton announced that he would hunt him down.

Also, note that his connection to the attacks of 9.11.01 was come up with by Richard Clarke, when Condi Rice charged him with coming up with an answer to the problem, and gave him 24 hours. If you're familiar with Clarke, you might not trust his judgment on the level that America has accepted "the official story" but that's just what we all did. The official story is word for word the unaltered report handed to Condi by Clarke the following day.

I don't think either of these people is in the least bit deceptive, I think they are just wrong. One reason they're wrong is they spent a day, and conspiracists spent a decade. A second reason is that they are just two people and their staffs, and truthers are 36% of 300 million americans and some 80% of the rest of the world's population, but I would say easily 1000 times as many researchers spending 1000 times as much time per person as Condi and Clarke spent

This next twist is important in all information theory:

The information collected by researchers is data, whether collected by Clarke or by some 911 truther or some yak herder in Bangladesh. The data may be true, false, or inaccurate in parts, but it's data, and needs to be scrutinized for its own sake.

The "theory" is put forth by someone like George W. Bush or Alex Jones, each of which have an agenda, and are going to cherry pick and skew the data to support that, but they are giving you lead points to the data.

This doesn't just apply to 9.11. It applies to everything you read or see.

When I go to a site or watch a video I really couldn't care less what the person's conclusions are. I care what data they've found. I then look up and judge for myself the validity of that data, and I often look at a wide variety of sources, and I purposefully pick out sources that are bound to disagree.

Take the "Green revolution" I'm skeptical of
"regime change" Iran arguments because I suspect they'll be used as a pretext for war, because that's what such arguments have been used for in the past.

I looked at the US press: Mousavi wins, Ahmadinejad won't yield power (read: time to invade.) Okay, says who? Oh, says Mousavi.

Now look around, Iranian sources says Ahmadinejad won. Okay, they have an agenda also. Look at some others. Russians say he won, French sources... Israel says he won. Hmmm. Now look back in time, restrict me search (remember, googles date constrained searches fail a lot, and so you will get some that are not really in the date range you want. If you're not familiar with Google's date constrained searches, it's on the left under "more search tools")

So, I look before the election, *everyone* is saying "oh, our pollsters say Ahmadinejad has this one in the bag." That makes me say "Okay, I'm certain how this election went (I really don't care who wins) But now I have to wonder "Why do we want Moussavi?" I'm still not sure of this question. It's possible that it's because he's a confrontational knucklehead who is much more likely to go to war (I found this by searching) or maybe we've talked him into signing the WTO. I don't know.

Is the USA always evil? No, but it's increasingly on the wrong side. Africa and S. America are the places where I tend to think that America is still on the right side, but we do meddle a lot. Are there better govt's options than Qadaffi? Sure, of course there are. Will the US provide them? It's real unlikely. We'll support the first cretin to sign our trade agreements. Obama as much as said so.

What does all this have to do with Bin Laden? Not much, other than being able to look at data in as objective a manner as possible with as wide a scope as possible, you often find, as I did, that you will actually, after reaching a possible conclusion, go out there and try to prove yourself wrong. (This is a critical step, and no mainstream media, politician or conspiracy theorist will do it.)

So, I went out and tried to gather credible independent data that connected OBL to 9.11. I was grasping at straws. There's was basically nothing to work with. The case was so bad I had to give up. That led me to a question "Who is Bush that he wanted this result?" I didn't come up with much. I went on to "Who is Condi that she wanted this result?" I still came up with nothing. Then I went to "Who is Clarke that he wanted this result?" Wanted is perhaps too strong a word, but he was on an obsessive manhunt for Bin Laden and had been for 3 years. He was definitely predisposed to find this answer.

It's not that none of the process works at all. OBL is guilty of a host of things that Clarke says he is. Just not this one. Probably not the Cole either. Embassy bombings? That's more probably, and lots of other stuff from terrorism to drug dealing.

It's our fault. It's how we take in information: Like spoonfed penned up sheep awaiting the slaughterhouse.

Don't look for answers. Everyone out there wants to give you answers. Pirate News wants to give you answers. Ignore those answers. Look for data points. Pirate News puts many data points into his posts. Maybe 90% of those data points are completely bogus. Discard those, and only look further into ones that look like they might be true.

My subjective opinion is that Frem vets his data points more than John does. I still disagree with a lot of Frem's conclusions, but I'm not reading for his conclusions, I'm reading for his data points. I'll draw my own conclusions.

I guess that in the end, I have no doubt that if you search long enough, you will arrive at a similar conclusion re: Osama, I'm not sure it was worth the time I put into it, and I'm not about to go through it again to prove the point. If you're genuinely concerned, you should search, but gather the more important part, how you look at data.

OBL and 9.11 is as good a test of how we look at data as any. It's worth doing for that.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Tuesday, May 3, 2011 10:08 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
He's not dead until we see his long form death certificate.

Aaaand, to Cuda goes the prize for the first good giggle of the morning. That’s priceless!

Also your link is excellent; bin Laden isn’t that important anymore, it’s the jihadist’s ideas that have long since morphed from needing him.

Byte,

Quote:
if it's going to change our policy over there, how, and if Al Qaeda is going to make good on their threats I've heard about.

I doubt it will change much of anything (tho’ supposition is already flying left and right). Al Qaeda has long since become a bunch of individual groups acting independently or semi-independently, from what I've seen. I have little doubt there will be “reprisals”, but given terrorist attacks have been happening all over the world, I don’t know whether anything will happen that affects us here.

Anthony, obviously you didn’t have long to wait for PN to pop up, as you expected. And HOW many other threads on this??? Why does PN keep putting up Faux News as “proof” of anything, I wonder?

Quote:
Any bets on whether this will raise approval ratings? Will it at least shut Fox News up for awhile? If it doesn't and they say this is anything but a win, will their followers finally call them out for being morons?

Nope, nope, and nope.

DT, I agree with

Quote:
Our nation has killed a man, at least one, in an assassination. I don't see cause for celebration

While I’m glad he’s gone (tho’ you’re contradicting yourself by saying we assassinated him when elsewhere you’ve said he’s been dead for a long time...?), I take pleasure on no entity’s death. I don't mourn him, I shed no tears for him, but I'm not about to go out celebrating either. I’m relieved he’s not around anymore to harm others, is as far as I go, tho’ I’m not sure how important that is, given al Qaeda has long since ceased needing him. But, invading Pakistan? World war? Obama about to be impeached?!? Will you eat crow if none of those things happens? Will you at least admit you were wrong? If none of them happen, will you be any less quick to accept conspiracy theories?

You "KNOW" that we have been faking Osama tapes for a while. I’m happy for you. I’d ask where you get your knowledge, but I really don’t want to deal with all your explanations. Oops, I see later you didn’t give any, just said you’re too busy to go digging (but not to write incredibly long posts) and we should search for ourselves. I’m too busy to look for something to try and prove it FOR you, sorry. I’m with Geezer. That you believe bin Laden having said things which contradicted what he said in the past and that’s your rationale for KNOWING our government has been faking tapes all along is interesting; you obviously give him a lot of credit for being logical and rational. He may have been at one time, but I’m not self-confident enough to say I KNOW what he was thinking or that I KNOW our government was faking tapes from him.

I just find it amazing that you consistently have so many theories, that you are so totally convinced of all of them, and that so many of them are waaaay outside reality! Your conviction that Egypt (and some other country you mentioned) has “defected” to Iran is interesting, given there’s no proof of same. They are ending their 30-year-long lack of diplomatic ties of any sort with Iran and opening up their border to Gaza, and I realize it’s your way to immediately see both countries going over to Iran, but maybe you might want to wait just a little while to see what actually HAPPENS. Everything’s still in transition, and I for one have no problem if the Egyptian people put up a government that is less aggressively pro-West. It doesn’t mean they’re going to BE Iran or be terrorists, at least until we see something concrete. Just a thought.

Also, bin Laden was on the FBI’s most wanted list, so why doesn’t that count to you? And omigawd, you take being compared to PN as a compliment?!? And that he’s the only one here applying "logic"??? Have you been around and have you READ the shit PN puts up? Even his titles are so far out in left field as to be ridiculous, and both they and a lot of what he puts up are flat-out LIES! You really wanna connect yourself to this guy??

And you really want to use “What Really Happened”, FauxNews and the UK Guardian as cites? That’s about equivalent to wanting to be seen as like PN. But if you really want to, be my guest. I would say that there are clues in YOUR explanation of how you arrive at your “knowledge”:

Quote:
The trick is in how you read the information... we need to accept negatives as information.... In general, you reject their conclusions and cherrypick their data

Okay, I get it. So what you come up with is YOUR conclusion of what is true. I’m afraid with PrisonPlanet and 911Myths as your cites, and then stating what you find on them as accepted fact, maybe I shouldn't be surprised at what you come up with.

Quote:
truthers are 36% of 300 million americans and some 80% of the rest of the world's population, but I would say easily 1000 times as many researchers spending 1000 times as much time per person as Condi and Clarke spent

Thirty-six percent; where do you get that number, please, as well as 80% of the rest of the world? As to “1000 times as many researchers”...those are all researchers? None of those are people looking for “facts” to prove what they already believe? Rice and Clarke don’t have access to a few real, honest-to-gawd researchers?

I’m understanding better how you come to your conclusions, which you then state as fact:

Quote:
I'm skeptical of "regime change" Iran arguments because I suspect they'll be used as a pretext for war

Yet you never seem to just question things, you state the opposite as FACT, as proven; maybe that’s not what you mean, but that’s how you state it. I would see that more as you “expecting” arguments to be used as pretext for war than “suspecting”, the way you state it.

I didn’t read the rest, I kind of get the picture. I think you look for things to support your own preconceived ideas, and yes, from a long time of reading your posts, you DEFINITELY have preconceived notions.

In general I find it offensive that you say you come here to “learn”, yet you post precisely as if you’re here to “teach” and I can’t recall having seen you admit being wrong about any of your theories, or even waivering in your belief in them. I think I need to read your posts less often, especially if you take pride in being compared to PN. I scroll right past him, and have ever since I understood his agenda and his mentality. If that’s how you want to be viewed, perhaps it’s best I do the same with yours.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, May 3, 2011 10:20 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I just realized something, when I went to check your "36% of Americans" statement. You say people are sheep and swallow what they're told. Yet you quote some percentage of Americans as believing 9/11 was fake as if that proves something. Isn't that a dichotomy?? I don't believe the percentage to begin with, but if people believe what they're told, and they're conspiracy theorists with a bent toward disbelieving the government or the news, wouldn't they, being sheep, then believe what they read on conspiracy theory websites, radio talk shows, etc.? How does their believing 9/11 was a fake mean anything, in that case? It doesn't follow.

To give percentages as if they mean something, you have to take into account how many people who are NOT conspiracy theorists given to believing the opposite of what the government/news tells them anyway, don't you? Does the fact that more than 50% of Republicans believe Obama was born outside America mean it's valid? Even in 1999, Gallup found that 6 percent of Americans still questioned the moon landing...what was the percentage in, say, 1970?

I just don't buy it. For example:

Quote:
Public Policy Polling’s ongoing survey of American attitudes about presidential conspiracy theories continues with a fascinating look at the “birther” and “truther” sympathies of Republicans, Democrats, and Independents. One takeaway: While some conservatives have brushed aside criticism of the “birthers” in their based by criticizing 9/11 conspiracy theorists on the left, there are far more conservative “birthers” than liberal “truthers.”

Forty-two percent of Republicans say President Obama was born outside the United States, while only 37 percent say he was born here. Twenty-five percent of Democrats say President George W. Bush let 9/11 happen, while 63 percent say he didn’t. Sixty-two percent of “liberals” say no, as do 62 percent of people who say they voted for Obama. The only element of the Democratic Party’s base with considerable 9/11 “truth” sympathies? African-Americans, only 46 percent of whom rule out a Bush connection.
Brendan Nyhan, writing about the poll at Pollster.com, takes credit for a strict 9/11 question framed to make sure no one who merely believed that Bush didn’t take the August 2001 “bin Laden determined to strike inside United States” argument seriously. The new question: “Do you think President Bush intentionally allowed the 9/11 attacks to take place because he wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East?”

Here’s a chart displaying the results:

http://washingtonindependent.com/60625/republican-birthers-outnumber-d
emocratic-truthers

I think that kind of disputes your statement that "36% of Americans" are truthers. Depending, of course, on what you choose to believe.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Tuesday, May 3, 2011 3:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
I saw Elvis in Thomasville GA last year

I found Jesus face-down in his soup!

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Tuesday, May 3, 2011 4:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
I saw Elvis in Thomasville GA last year

I found Jesus face-down in his soup!

Elvis's soup, or Jesus's? Be specific.

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Tuesday, May 3, 2011 4:40 PM

Elvis *IS* Jesus. Didn't you know?

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Tuesday, May 3, 2011 4:43 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Now I'm all shook up.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

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Tuesday, May 3, 2011 4:52 PM

Pfft, you ain't nothin' but a hound dog!

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Tuesday, May 3, 2011 4:53 PM

Relax, y'all - I'm just playin'.

I do often feel that this country would be more closely served by the image of a savior embodied in the fat, flabby older Elvis, replete in his white jump suit with eagles and gold, nailed to a cross with a banner reading "T.C.B." It just seems a better representation of what this nation is, and what it holds dear, than a poor man who healed the sick because they had no healthcare, and who drove the bankers from the holy places, and who refused to do what politicians told him to. That just seems so... un-American somehow, according to so many "Christians".

Elvis is The American Christ. And of course, we killed him.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Tuesday, May 3, 2011 5:02 PM

Don't be Cruel.

The King of Rock and Roll as risen and returned to Las Vegas, where couples who ask may begin their lives anew as married folk with his blessing.

Viva Las Vegas!

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Tuesday, May 3, 2011 5:12 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=48414

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Tuesday, May 3, 2011 5:52 PM